European Tour - Inferiority complex

I remember George O'Grady at Wentworth 2011 posing for photos with anyone with a camera beside the 4 current major winners - McDowell, Oosthuizen, Kaymer & Schwartzel and thinking - why do this? There were numerous dinners and all these players followed the likes of Shaun Micheel & Todd Hamilton as European tour "Life" members.

It's not as if any of the 4 named above were playing more than half their yearly events on theET anyway, and their Major victories would only ensure they joined the PGA Tour Full time. It's as if O'Grady was trying to tell the world that the European Tour was producing all the world's best golfers- maybe he was trying to convince himself that the ET was close to challenging the PGA Tour??

One thing's for sure, you won't see Tim Finchem posing with Adam Scott, Justin Rose, Phil Mick & Jason Duffner later this year saying "Look,we have all 4 majors".

Current Ryder Cup Captain McGinley perfectly manifests this inferiority complex with this Ryder Cup obsession of his. The man is a walking sound bite, rattling on already about the "pride" "courage" etc etc. The Ryder Cup really tells us Nothing about which is the stronger/better tour...that will be the PGA Tour (probably) always. Seeing McGinley & Watson at the "one year to go" event yesterday was nauseating, McGinley once again rabbiting on about Ian Poulter "giving us a pulse" at Medinah and comparing the comeback to AC Milan Liverpool in 2005.

Looking at McGinley & Watson - it kind of typified the 2 tours - you had a true great of the game in Watson on one side and a guy with a mediocre career on the other side, someone who would probably never have made the team if today's qualification criteria were in place - holing "the winning putt at a Ryder cup" as he loves telling us, while sounding like a massive achievement to the ill informed does not enhance anyone's CV in my opinion. You holed an 8 footer for Par to halve a singles match with Jim Furyk, that's what it was.

The European obsession with the Ryder Cup, when,in my opinion, there are many greater events held during the year has soured the event for me - it should be a celebration of 2 golfing continents - none of the Major prizes in golf are at stake - go out and play your best,but don't pretend this is the pinnacle of your careers.......................................

Of course the Ryder Cup comeback was better than Liverpool in 2005. Things like that happen in Football all the time.

I guess you're American, John?

MontysMerkin wrote:I guess you're American, John?

No, Irish. It says so under my name.

Hmmm ok.
The way I see it is that of course the PGA is the stronger tour. More money = best players. The European Tour is really quite plops in comparison. The only way they can compete and get any sort of bragging rights is to win the only thing that matters to them - the RC. Simples.

Sorry John. I can agree with some of what you're saying but not all. The PGA Tour is 'better' for one reason (and one reason only) and that's money. It won't change but if the bigger purses were available on the Euro Tour, it would be the stronger.
It's also a bit churlish to lambast McGinley over his putt. I'm pretty certain most players who've played Ryder Cup would say it's as pressured as it comes....Woods maybe excepted and he so obviously doesn't give a XXXX that I'm surprised the U.S. repeatedly pick him.

I don't think Baldy Nine Chins will play in this one Navy. He's already I think America's worst Ryder Cup player in history. I'm not sure he'd want to compound that record.

"the only thing that matters to them"..............is that not the problem ? (of course im not saying that this is how european players think, im sure Majors are far more important to them).

I just don't see how anyone (player/fan) can take the RC as a serious event in the golfing year -given that almost half of the world's top players are excluded from participating................

It's a great event - a different event - a showcase event - but i think Rory was right when he initially described it as an "great exhibition of golf" - in other words - im after titles (Majors, WGC's etc).....................

Only 18 out of the top 100 in the OWGR are not from Europe or USA, so it's hardly half the world that are excluded.

It's certainly more inclusive than a university boat race or Ashes Cricket.

super_realist wrote:I don't think Baldy Nine Chins will play in this one Navy. He's already I think America's worst Ryder Cup player in history. I'm not sure he'd want to compound that record.

I'm surprised just how much Watson continues to big him up....could be setting himself up for one helluva big backpedalling effort!!

Re the original post...I'm confused as to whether it's an anti ET rant, an anti RC rant, an anti McGinley rant...or just a rant combining a mix of all 3

navyblueshorts wrote:Sorry John. I can agree with some of what you're saying but not all. The PGA Tour is 'better' for one reason (and one reason only) and that's money. It won't change but if the bigger purses were available on the Euro Tour, it would be the stronger.
It's also a bit churlish to lambast McGinley over his putt. I'm pretty certain most players who've played Ryder Cup would say it's as pressured as it comes....Woods maybe excepted and he so obviously doesn't give a XXXX that I'm surprised the U.S. repeatedly pick him.

Cheers NBS, it's just over here, we've had to constantly listen to McGinley rattle on about it as if it's some sort of monumental achievement in world sport and we all know we are in for a year of listening to him rattle on and on about "the team"...."i have a few ideas up my sleeve"............"the team room is all important"................."only those playing well enough will be in the team"....................."we're hoping for a great home support in scotland".....etc etc....................

it just galls me how an event that isin't a serious golf event gets so much coverage over here.

JAS wrote:

super_realist wrote:I don't think Baldy Nine Chins will play in this one Navy. He's already I think America's worst Ryder Cup player in history. I'm not sure he'd want to compound that record.

I'm surprised just how much Watson continues to big him up....could be setting himself up for one helluva big backpedalling effort!!

Re the original post...I'm confused as to whether it's an anti ET rant, an anti RC rant, an anti McGinley rant...or just a rant combining a mix of all 3

All 3  

He's the Captain FFS, what do you expect him to say?
"It's a tinpot event and none of us care about it, in fact, I'm not sure why we are even bothering because John Cregan of Ireland doesn't rate it"

Come on.

It's a MASSIVE event now, regardless of how you see it.

super_realist wrote:He's the Captain FFS, what do you expect him to say?
"It's a tinpot event and none of us care about it, in fact, I'm not sure why we are even bothering because John Cregan of Ireland doesn't rate it"

Come on.

It's a MASSIVE event now, regardless of how you see it.

How long before he tells us all that he's had a meeting with Sir Alex Ferguson and he feels like a much better captain after it..."That man has forgotten more about leadership than i'll ever know".................he'll shortly be telling us how the Seve Trophy is "MASSIVE".............................

Someone has really peed on your chips today.

Monty was worse though................

Bet you wouldn't be so dismissive if the team comprised more spud munchers like Lowry and Harrington. Highly unlikely though.

super_realist wrote:Bet you wouldn't be so dismissive if the team comprised more spud munchers like Lowry and Harrington. Highly unlikely though.

Nice try! My opinion wouldn't change even if the team was full of 12 leprechauns from the dear old Emerald Isle - with 14 Shillelaghs in their little bags instead of clubs!

s-r
I am getting increasingly fed up with your constant repetition of untruths posted as facts. Your dislike of Tiger Woods is legendary, on this board anyway, but also blinds you to the truth.
I am no lover of Tiger Woods but, to put the record straight, he has nowhere near the worst record of any American in the Ryder Cup. Try Phil Mickelson or Jim Furyk to name but two.
Spend 2 minutes on http://golf.about.com/od/rydercup/a/rydercuprecords.htm and hopefully your eyes will be opened and we'll read no more garbage from you on this subject.

I said "I think", meaning that I amn't sure.

Regardless, his Ryder Cup record still absolutely reeks for a player of his standard.

Nine Chins has lost more Fourballs than any other American and has the 3rd highest number of losses in Foursomes. So I wasn't that far off the mark was I?

Considering how good Tiger has been/is, he surely (and i realise this is immeasurable) has the all time biggest disparity between the usual standard of his golf and his performances at the Ryder Cup.

Maybe it's a lack of bottle issue?

super_realist wrote:Bet you wouldn't be so dismissive if the team comprised more spud munchers like Lowry and Harrington. Highly unlikely though.

 
 
Oh dear

westisbest wrote:

super_realist wrote:Bet you wouldn't be so dismissive if the team comprised more spud munchers like Lowry and Harrington. Highly unlikely though.

 
 
Oh dear

...and we await the massive overreaction (Incon? Aruglia? where are you?) followed by the thread closure!!! It's been a wee while since we had one

I've a new term for it JAS, it's called synthetic offence.

It's obviously a McGinley thing. McGinley must be a different flavour of mud-spuncher than Cregan

Davie wrote:It's obviously a McGinley thing. McGinley must be a different flavour of mud-spuncher than Cregan

I think i eat the same type of spuds as McGinley ( or McGinty, as Sam Torrance calls him, oh how we laughed at that!). McGinley is a decent fella, don't get me wrong. It's more the person he turns into when you mention the Ryder Cup that galls me ............a bit like the way Colin "let us turn the television sets BLUE" Montgomerie used get on my nerves when he was the Captain

JAS wrote:

westisbest wrote:

super_realist wrote:Bet you wouldn't be so dismissive if the team comprised more spud munchers like Lowry and Harrington. Highly unlikely though.

 
 
Oh dear

...and we await the massive overreaction (Incon? Aruglia? where are you?)  followed by the thread closure!!!  It's been a wee while since we had one

 
 
I found it laughable thats all.
 
We all know SR is harmless:)

westisbest wrote:

JAS wrote:

westisbest wrote:

super_realist wrote:Bet you wouldn't be so dismissive if the team comprised more spud munchers like Lowry and Harrington. Highly unlikely though.

 
 
Oh dear

...and we await the massive overreaction (Incon? Aruglia? where are you?)  followed by the thread closure!!!  It's been a wee while since we had one

 
 
I found it laughable thats all.
 
We all know SR is harmless:)

Should read:
We all know SR is [fill in the blank].
Could be a new thread?
I'll go with closeted homosexual with a thing for buff mixed race golfers billionaires!

Nice summation. And interesting that some players absolutely thrive on these team events. Monty and Poulter come to mind.

It's my observation that the Ryder Cup is indeed more important to the ET, British Press and many a European Golf fan. More important than those same groups in the US. And bully for the Europeans - their recent domination coupled with the ET inability to attract sponsors, crowds, and top players naturally makes the RC the top item on the agenda.

If the issue is how to grow the ET, I'll always suggest they hold more events in Europe, work harder to attract sponsors so prize money will attract better players. Seems it's fashionable to blame the Americans, but that hardly gets anything accomplished (and as evidenced on this thread name calling is usually the last line of defense when logic is lost).

Keeping McGinley (and Montgomerie) out of the discussion for the minute, but the European Tour's "Inferiority complex" is surely well-deserved, certainly in comparison with the PGA Tour?

Just looking at the respective commissioners - one has created unprecedented financial wealth for his members, by luck and judgement, while the other has been content to play second or third fiddle, done nothing to improve the competitiveness of the Tour, and seemed content to let his best players, plus a raft-full of nearly men, migrate to the PGA Tour or its fringes.

Finchem has the players he wants on his Tour secured by financial handcuffs whilst it seems O'Grady is content to see his Tour become a feeder to the PGA Tour.

Ryder Cup has nothing to do with the respective quality of the Tours, much more to do with esprit de corps and all those intangibles that Europeans have in their DNA, but which Shotrock and most of his compadres dispute.

Perhaps O'Grady was desperately unlucky to lose his flagship icon, Seve, at such an early age, but Seve's (big five) contemporaries have largely (except Woosie) emigrated to the bling of America without giving back in any significant way to the European Tours.

And there's no sign that the next generation will take any leadership role, or at least not until the likes of Harrington, Karlsson, Clarke etc lose their PGA Tour cards for good.

Would love to sit down with true Europeans like Bjorn and Jimenez, blokes who have experience of both sides of the watery divide, and listen to their plans for a stronger, healthier E.T.. Imagine their first recommendation would be to ditch O'Grady.

Good insights Kwin.

Until O'Grady (or his replacement) can attract the sponsors necessary to build the purses necessary to attract the best players it will remain precisely what it is. Offering the same package yet hoping things change won't work IMO.

I would offer little hope that current or past players will help the cause much. These are professional golfers, mercenaries chasing down a little white ball to make the best living possible ... I can't envision how their insights would be any greater than "offer us more money, with better accommodations and easier travel". Which, of course, is already evident.

And, absolutely don't buy into you "intangibles" and "DNA" theory ... after all the US dominated the "Team" portion of the last RC.

Sr,
Not going to go over old stuff, but "professional golfers" or not, there are millions of people who would prefer to live in Europe than America, notwithstanding commercial opportunities in the States.
But you're right, as they are professionals, they have to come to the States for at least part of the year as there is absolutely no alternative for them to ply their trade in Europe.

I mentioned TB and M-A J as they are among the small number of E.T. golfers (Levet and Anders Hansen would be others, Torrance too) who have tried the PGA Tour and found they preferred the E.T..

Bling is not for everyone, and sometimes size doesn't matter! (I have a metaphor of sorts for that with Earle Reed but that would be lost on all but you and me!!)

The ET will never compete with PGA Tour, I mean how long has this debate been going in now? 25 years? Even the move outside of Europe failed, just resulted in lifeless events with no crowd or atmosphere.

gw,
Agree with that, but the E.T. can be very strong, just different. Right now it's very weak and their players are mostly saying "I can't afford to Vive la difference".

KwinI, agreed. Have to admit if I was a top golfer ii know where I would want to play my golf, USA all the way!!!!

gw,
All that glitters . . . . . .

Also, it's not like anyone has to stay in X country after they are competing. One would guess that most of the top European players that now reside in the US will return to Europe after they are "done".

And Monty sure made a fine living staying in Europe.

But the ET will not compete with the US tour if their primary message is "enjoy all Europe has to offer" ... and keep the reduced prize money, globe-trotting tournament schedule as it is.

Shotrock is probably right, but if the money were equal, i'd rather be on the European Tour, the likes of Crans Sur Sierre would be amazing and far less retarded fans.

super_realist wrote:Bet you wouldn't be so dismissive if the team comprised more spud munchers like Lowry and Harrington. Highly unlikely though.

super don't tell me you buy into all this ryder cup nonsense? it's a glorified sideshow, it means nothing. and thats the reason your buddy Tiger has such a bad record, he's just punches in time til its over.

Are you saying that the American's don't buy into it?
I could have sworn I saw every single American players bottom lip dragging off the floor after Medinah, Woods even more than usual, and the time before the ugliest man in golf (Mahan) was in tears after his fluffed chip against McDowell.

I see Paul Lawrie disappointed that the big names not rocking up for the seve trophy. It really is a pointless trophy. Just because it is named after seve doesn't make it good nor disrespectful to seve by not playing.

Maybe so.....but what else are they doing next week? Not a lot is my guess. Maybe the little darlings are a bit 'tired'?

The format of the Seve Trophy is pitched at the wrong level for the top players.
Make it an under-30 event and you might attract golfers for whom this would really mean something.

Almost as soon as former ET regulars won their major, they were off to the US: Cabrera, Paddy, Oosty, Charl, McD, Rory, Kaymer. On the other hand we get to keep Micheel, Beem, Hamilton.
Don't know if the ET life time membership makes it easier for some of these players to buy a one way tickey to the US?

Wouldn't be surprised to see Harrington back soon

The acceleration of the disparity between the PGAT and ET is really beginning to show...  Removing the Majors and WGC's... this year to date, the PGA Tour's average event OWGR winners share is 49.58, up 1.87 points from last year.  Meanwhile the 2013 Euro Tour average to date is 30.26, down 2.29 from last year.  That's over a 4 point swing of points gained/lost between the two tours.

But even worse... there has been a loss of events on the Euro Tour as well... as recently as 2011 the total of the winners share of OWGR points through this date was 1084... compared to 938 this year... roughly a 13.5% reduction of OWGR points available in two years.

Very good article john and I agree with most of what you say.

No one should doubt how serious McIlroy was when he said the Ryder cup was an exhibition event. Only a tweaking of his ear from sponsors and managers made him retract the comment.

As I have said for many years the Ryder cup is an over hyped charity for those incapable of performing at major level.


I really like your assessment of McGinley and I would add that the man seems to be a complete idiot as well. His appearances on sky's golf coverage are a complete embarrassment.


It is clear that the european tour will always play second fiddle to the PGAT as long as it cannot offer the players the same amount of money, but why does it have to be so boring at the same time? Currently the European tour makes no effort to offer something worth watching to the viewer. Europe is filled with great courses yet we never see the european tour visit any of them other than for the open and when in Scotland.

Why not play on classic courses every week no matter how short they are and just accept whatever scores are posted? At least then we would see something a little different.

Mac, they hardly play classic courses in America week in week out.

Have you never seen Crans Sur Sierre, or the recent Dutch one? What's wrong with that, add the right amount of money and people would react like you to your ceiling poster if that was on offer.

In what way is the RC a charity match Mac? Overhyped??...well yes I don't think anyone can deny that. It is what it is though and it IS an enjoyable diversification for the weekly grind of the tour.

Not really understanding the sudden anti McGinley ranting..what's that all about? What's your evidence for arriving at the title of complete idiot??

With regard to the respective tours then yes, sponsorship money is clearly the difference and the issue for the European Tour. Indeed I think the main reason the ET had had to go to the middle East, Far East & SA has been to chase the sponsorship dosh. Don't think things are likely to get better until the Eurozone Countries are all fully recovered financially.

Courses...um...
Wentworth, Castle Stuart, Muirfield, Carnoustie, Kingsbarns, TOC (included just for you Mac), Oceanico Victoria, Bro Hof Slott, Tharacian Cliffs, Crans Sur Sierre. And if you don't think CS is a classic, replace it with RA for next year. Last year you also had Portrush. Additionally I would move the Welsh Open from CM to Royal Porthcawl.

It's not like the PGAT play on classics every week is it?

Jas/Super

You guys are suffering comprehension issues yet again. I clearly said the Euro tour holding more events on classic courses would differentiate it from the PGAT.