Ospreys V Leinster HC

by Jenifer McLadyboy Thu 10 Oct 2013, 5:30 pm

First topic message reminder :

Someone had to do it.

Teams at noon tomorrow.

Not to confident traveling to this. Os have a good home record in the comp. Only going down to Sarries. They have a full team and a great record over Leinster in the Rabo.

Be a big deal if we can pull it off

by bedfordwelsh Sun 13 Oct 2013, 7:57 pm

If the Os get out of this group now then they will have had some big wins in the process because I doubt there will be a runners up spot going to this group.

by sheephead Sun 13 Oct 2013, 8:02 pm

I was about to say some seeding points from the Amlin may help in the HC next year........if it happens next year. Sad

by Gibson Sun 13 Oct 2013, 10:10 pm

The Saint wrote:SOB, Cronin, D'Arcy, Healy and Gopperth all played very well and probably made the difference. I don't think it was a good performance from Leinster, they didn't have to do much but they did enough. Ospreys season in europe looks to be over, again. It was such a stupid decision not to recruit a backline and keep putting crashball centre's and scrum-halves everywhere. Leinster should get better as the season goes on and are still good enough to make the KO stages. They're such a class outfit, they've only lost to Clermont in the past 3 years in this competition which is some record.

That's how Champions pace themselves. Thats what sets them and 2 or 3 other teams apart from the rest in the Heino.

Leinster will just get stronger as it grows.

Great win and what a weekend. Denying O's a LBP was key. Swansea, on a Saturday night, is like being directly involved in a Fellini movie. Loved it.

We are on the march again... I have no fear of any other side in this comp. None.

Believe.

by LeinsterFan4life Sun 13 Oct 2013, 10:27 pm

Not even Clermont Gibbo? Smile

by Mickado Mon 14 Oct 2013, 7:33 am

Reasons to be cheerful:

1. A win away in the HC
2. A win over our bogey team
3. Proof there is life after Schmidt, Nacewa and Sexton
4. BOD, Cullen and Jenno all out
5. Mike Ross gone for most of the game (Moore was fantastic)
6. We're at home next week to a team who hasn't won away from home this season (beaten 34-0 to Brive)

That'll hold ye for now, and that's without mentioning our miserly defense, our improved lineout, our occasionally fantastic scrum and our impact off the bench. Happy Monday people.

by thebandwagonsociety Mon 14 Oct 2013, 2:12 pm

Mickado wrote:Reasons to be cheerful:

1. A win away in the HC
2. A win over our bogey team
3. Proof there is life after Schmidt, Nacewa and Sexton
4. BOD, Cullen and Jenno all out
5. Mike Ross gone for most of the game (Moore was fantastic)
6. We're at home next week to a team who hasn't won away from home this season (beaten 34-0 to Brive)

That'll hold ye for now, and that's without mentioning our miserly defense, our improved lineout, our occasionally fantastic scrum and our impact off the bench. Happy Monday people.

What way will the team be set up for this weekend? Will MOC continue the home/away starting XVs that Joe built up? Madigan will be chomping at the bit to prove himself on the big stage, Reddan should give him very quick ball. Is BOD out for another week yet or could he be back?

Got to day, Cronin always looks great in open field running (needs to improve the darts a little bit more).
Healy was kind of quiet and McGrath did very well when he came on.
Moore did great when he came on but we are going to struggle in our depth at TH if both Ross and Bent are out for any length of time. Whose next for the bench? Furlong?
Thought McCarthy and Toner did very well in the second row, never really noticed us getting over-powered in that position and Ospreys have a strong tight 5.
Heaslip - best game I've seen from him in a long time. He is starting to tuck the ball under the arm and back himself to beat defenders again. Maybe the Lions and competing with Faletau gave him the kick up the backside he needed. Maybe seeing Jordi Murphy coming up behind him in the squad is making him increase his efforts....... maybe this is his contract negotiation year and he has finally pulled his finger out!
McL and SOB - great combination for the game, far more dynamic than their combo's from last few seasons in the away HC starting XV.
Boss - started great, a real terrier but visibly tired during the second half and could have been subbed a little earlier to maintain the tempo in the game.
Gopperth - Is this the guy that Falcons fans were happy to let go? There could be a bit of thriving behind a strong pack, a good SH and a very experienced inside centre.
Macken - thought he was a bit quiet in the game, but didn't get caught out from what I can remember so a solid, if not particularly noteworthy, display.
Back3 - Do the Osprey's not know that you don't kick down the throat of any leinster back named Kearney? How did Rob get those shiners?
McF and Darcy were dependable and both put in solid shifts.

I want us to really take the game to Castre this week. We need to set the tempo in our house, not let Castre sniff blood early and then kick on. Madigan and BOD (if healthy and playing) should provide enough of a spark to have a TBP be a reasonable expectation. Castre lose this next game and they will field a team of 8 yr olds for the rest of the campaign. Leinster need to be the team that breaks that spirit.

by **rodders** Mon 14 Oct 2013, 2:23 pm

Heaslip always seems to find an extra few gears when either there's a lions tour or contract negotiations on the horizon ...... Cool

by Submachine Mon 14 Oct 2013, 3:45 pm

rodders wrote:Heaslip always seems to find an extra few gears when either there's a lions tour or contract negotiations on the horizon ......

Or a Heineken cup or three to be won. Smile

by thebandwagonsociety Mon 14 Oct 2013, 3:48 pm

Submachine wrote:
rodders wrote:Heaslip always seems to find an extra few gears when either there's a lions tour or contract negotiations on the horizon ......
Or a Heineken cup or three to be won.

True, he was also fairly injury free for many seasons, then a couple of years back he tweaked that ankle in a HC group game and since then he never really does the barnstorming runs of yester-year. It would be nice to get one season of both SOB and Heaslip doing the thunder and lightning running tandem (before one of them sells out for the big money in France).

by Scrumpy Mon 14 Oct 2013, 4:11 pm

I guess there is always the 2014 HC for a Welsh team to break their duck! Whistle

by LeinsterFan4life Mon 14 Oct 2013, 4:19 pm

Who will we have on the bench if Ross is injured given that Furlong is still recoving from injury. Royce Burke Flynn could see himself called up to the bench against Castre.

by SecretFly Mon 14 Oct 2013, 4:20 pm

thebandwagonsociety wrote:
Submachine wrote:
rodders wrote:Heaslip always seems to find an extra few gears when either there's a lions tour or contract negotiations on the horizon ......
Or a Heineken cup or three to be won.
True, he was also fairly injury free for many seasons, then a couple of years back he tweaked that ankle in a HC group game and since then he never really does the barnstorming runs of yester-year. It would be nice to get one season of both SOB and Heaslip doing the thunder and lightning running tandem (before one of them sells out for the big money in France).

This might be that season... just not necesarily the team or the competition..........................

by Guest Mon 14 Oct 2013, 4:21 pm

Not sure why GG and Hersh have gone for less subtlety now? Rubbish banter nowadays Crying or Very sad

by Scrumpy Mon 14 Oct 2013, 4:34 pm

This was a tough enough group if you won all your homes games, losing your 1st game to the little old Amlin champs at home is criminal.

Better luck next year Osprey fans as I can't see anyone from this group getting through as a best runner up, might be best to concentrate on the Rabo.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Tue 15 Oct 2013, 8:59 am

I didn't get to see the whole game (I was driving through the desert at 100km-invigorating I tells ya) but I did see the last 25 or so and then the highlights.

A few things I picked up on that I'd like to share and possibly discuss with others if it tickles their fancy.

1) How hungry did Fitz look? He didn't touch the ball but his kick chasing and tackling were out of this world! He drove back a lock and then a flanker in tackles. Really impressed.

2) McLaughlin. I believe he makes our backrow considerably better. I would actually like to see him start with SOB and Heaslip in green as he understands how to let them shine. I've been saying this for a few months but he is the real workhorse that these two need to play to their strengths and he offers so many subtleties and different elements. Very different player to POM in many ways (not saying POM is a bad player - just different). Leinster backrow in green??

3) Reddan looks really poor this year. I think Boss has to be first choice and Reddan should find himself under some pressure from Cooney or McGrath. O'Connor said he isn't interested in playing quick round the corner rugby but looks for more invention and creativity, I am not sure Reddan fulfills this role all that well. Leinster haven't played with much creativity yet though so that may be a work in progress during the season.

4) Our front five looks good. Cronin is stepping up that being said he had a bad game last week. If he can gain consistency he will be doing well, very well. Not sure who the Leinster branch are looking for as a replacement for Strauss but there is a need. Ross and Moore is now a very close run thing. Toner is a new man, I am thrilled for him. I am very impressed in how long he has sustained his upward trajectory he has not looked like plateauing in a number of seasons. He could find himself in green soon too.

5) I assume Kirchner will not be parachuted into the match day squad for the game this weekend???

6) I think we should all be hoping for an Ospreys win this weekend as this would mean that both the Ospreys and Northampton will have lost a home game each. Northampton would be out effectively and leaves us in the driving seat as we have the Ospreys at home. That not being a sure victory by any means (many people are massively underrating them after a few bad performances - they can scare us without a doubt).

Happy Tuesday everyone and Eid Mubarak from Dubai

by Submachine Tue 15 Oct 2013, 9:36 am

Fitz looks to have lost some bulk. I wonder if it is intentional to try and restore some of the out and out speed. He always fancies a tackle and has fantastic technique. Always attempts to obliterate an opponent when the opportunity arises.

Kev is a fine player and as you say brings tremendous balance to the backrow but POM playing really well at the moment. I think Schmidt would be slaughtered by our southern brethren if the Leinster 6,7 and 8 were to start for Ireland. If all of our back rows are fit and available I would like to see 6 SOB, 7 TOD, 8 Heaslip/POM.

Reddan is coming back from a long injury lay off and is no spring chicken. I think he will be firing on all cylinders again soon but hopefully the younger guys can put pressure on both senior scrum halves. I think McGrath looks like a super prospect.

If Cronin could add consistent darts he would be a shoe in for Ireland. Though not as good as Best in defence his dynamism in open play is a huge asset.

Toner is developing nicely for Leinster and I think his pairing with McCarthy has looked really good. But I think McCarthy’s dog work, much like Kev in the backrow is what allows him to shine. For me McCarthy should be Irelands starting lock with POC.

Agree with the rest of your synopsis

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Tue 15 Oct 2013, 9:48 am

Fitz looks to have lost some bulk. I wonder if it is intentional to try and restore some of the out and out speed. He always fancies a tackle and has fantastic technique. Always attempts to obliterate an opponent when the opportunity arises.

I think he looks bigger if anything. I hope he starts running those midfield lines he used to, that he gets his name on the score sheet some more and most importantly remains injury free.

Kev is a fine player and as you say brings tremendous balance to the backrow but POM playing really well at the moment. I think Schmidt would be slaughtered by our southern brethren if the Leinster 6,7 and 8 were to start for Ireland. If all of our back rows are fit and available I would like to see 6 SOB, 7 TOD, 8 Heaslip/POM.

I think a backrow of Heaslip, SOB and POM is a disaster. I amn't completely sold on how good a player POM is myself, he seems to have unreal games then really poor ones, but either way I think due to the style of player he is, that he is in direct competition with SOB and Heaslip and for me he comes off second best to both. I think Henry or McLaughlin or another work horse are needed in the backrow to allow us to get the most from Heaslip and SOB (not just their carrying but their rucking in wider channels [defense and attack] and their handling skills).

by the-goon Tue 15 Oct 2013, 10:02 am

Submachine wrote:Fitz looks to have lost some bulk. I wonder if it is intentional to try and restore some of the out and out speed. He always fancies a tackle and has fantastic technique. Always attempts to obliterate an opponent when the opportunity arises.

Kev is a fine player and as you say brings tremendous balance to the backrow but POM playing really well at the moment. I think Schmidt would be slaughtered by our southern brethren if the Leinster 6,7 and 8 were to start for Ireland. If all of our back rows are fit and available I would like to see 6 SOB, 7 TOD, 8 Heaslip/POM.

Reddan is coming back from a long injury lay off and is no spring chicken. I think he will be firing on all cylinders again soon but hopefully the younger guys can put pressure on both senior scrum halves. I think McGrath looks like a super prospect.

If Cronin could add consistent darts he would be a shoe in for Ireland. Though not as good as Best in defence his dynamism in open play is a huge asset.

Toner is developing nicely for Leinster and I think his pairing with McCarthy has looked really good. But I think McCarthy’s dog work, much like Kev in the backrow is what allows him to shine. For me McCarthy should be Irelands starting lock with POC.

Agree with the rest of your synopsis

Regarding Ireland's backrow, if playing 3 Leinster players works then there is no complaining to be had. One thing is clear that while Heaslip, SOB and POM are our 3 best individual players (not including Ferris- our best), they have not worked well as a unit in the past. I think only 2 out of those 3 should start with one of the following workhorses KMcL, Henry or TOD. Who you drop/pick i'll leave to Joe and back his decision 100%.

This is all assuming that Ferris isn't in contention for selection.

by Mickado Tue 15 Oct 2013, 10:08 am

Pete, you globetrotter. Less of the jealous making please!

Agree on all of your points there, would like to see Fitz start this week, with DK to the bench, would keep ZK until the Connacht game next week to let him get up to speed.

Locky was everywhere on Saturday, O'Callaghanesque amounts of unseen work done Wink

On our front five, I think Toner and McCarthy are an excellent combination, people will always deride Toner because he looks awkward but he's having an excellent season so far and is an 80 minute player. McCarthy gets through a lot of work and really gives good ballast to the scrum, Roux's cameo was also pretty effective I thought. As was Ruddocks by the way, made one sidestepping break beating 3 defenders no less!

Agree that we should be cheering on the O's this week, NH would be effectively out of it with 2 losses, they won't be a walkover for us either way, but FG's can be sacked (Scarlets last year) so any edge we can get over them in that game would be great.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Tue 15 Oct 2013, 10:39 am

Mick ya beaut, we know you love it!!!

I agree, I thought Fitz looked hungrier than DKearney. Not sure what you'd do with the 13 position then though, as you could have McFadden in at 13 with Fitz and D.Kearney on the wings and then put Macken on the bench. It is not the best long term strategy but for this week it would result with us having our best players on the pitch.

I have really liked Toner for the last few years I gotta say. He is deceptively effective. His handling and decision making are really quite good, no Irish tight 5 forward is as good at it as he is other than perhaps Strauss. He has improved his body position although it is far from perfect. At the end of last season he was very good at taking the ball at 60-80% pace and made good carries so hopefully he will bring that aspect of his game back again. Not sure what I think of McCarthy and Roux yet.

Goon-
COMPLETELY agree with you! Not sure TOD is much of a worker bee either but McLaughlin and Henry most certainly are. I really think putting POM in with the other 2 would be quite detrimental as his workrate is actually quite low. You'd see Heaslip and SOB move into the trenches more which is where they are not quite as effective (although they are still very good here).

Are there any other Irish donkey-esque workers who play backrow???

by **rodders** Tue 15 Oct 2013, 10:47 am

Roger Wilson.

by Submachine Tue 15 Oct 2013, 10:48 am

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:
Fitz looks to have lost some bulk. I wonder if it is intentional to try and restore some of the out and out speed. He always fancies a tackle and has fantastic technique. Always attempts to obliterate an opponent when the opportunity arises.
I think he looks bigger if anything. I hope he starts running those midfield lines he used to, that he gets his name on the score sheet some more and most importantly remains injury free.

Kev is a fine player and as you say brings tremendous balance to the backrow but POM playing really well at the moment. I think Schmidt would be slaughtered by our southern brethren if the Leinster 6,7 and 8 were to start for Ireland. If all of our back rows are fit and available I would like to see 6 SOB, 7 TOD, 8 Heaslip/POM.
I think a backrow of Heaslip, SOB and POM is a disaster. I amn't completely sold on how good a player POM is myself, he seems to have unreal games then really poor ones, but either way I think due to the style of player he is, that he is in direct competition with SOB and Heaslip and for me he comes off second best to both. I think Henry or McLaughlin or another work horse are needed in the backrow to allow us to get the most from Heaslip and SOB (not just their carrying but their rucking in wider channels [defense and attack] and their handling skills).

Fitz has definitely been on the salads since his last run of games. The man has cheekbones for Gods sake.
I think most people agree that SOB, Heaslip and POM are not the ideal back row combo but I don't think Henry has been as good so far this season. I think TOD has the potential to be a Gleeson or Johnny O'connor type 7, he does pick up injuries though.

by SecretFly Tue 15 Oct 2013, 11:05 am

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

I agree, I thought Fitz looked hungrier than DKearney.

That's been kinda Fitz's weak point in recent years though. He's so eager to become mainstream (in team selections) again that he's often been guilty of being too hungry - too ready to turn every workable workman-like pass into a creative flourish of elusive elan.
I didn't get to see the game but I'd assume Fitz just needs to be solid and workmanlike when he gets his opportunities and let the inner slick footed creativity arrive more naturally, rather than constantly put himself under pressure to provide it from the get go.

by Mickado Tue 15 Oct 2013, 11:55 am

SecretFly wrote:
pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

I agree, I thought Fitz looked hungrier than DKearney.
That's been kinda Fitz's weak point in recent years though. He's so eager to become mainstream (in team selections) again that he's often been guilty of being too hungry - too ready to turn every workable workman-like pass into a creative flourish of elusive elan.
I didn't get to see the game but I'd assume Fitz just needs to be solid and workmanlike when he gets his opportunities and let the inner slick footed creativity arrive more naturally, rather than constantly put himself under pressure to provide it from the get go.

While I agree with you, there was nothing on show from last weeks game to suggest he was OVER eager as we've seen in the past. I know what you mean though, he came back from injury (and played FB if i remember correctly) against Sarries at home a few years back and gave away 2 tries with loose passing. But he seems to be well tuned in on the small bit of evidence we've seen this season.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Tue 15 Oct 2013, 12:04 pm

Yeah when I say he was eager or hungry I mean in defense. He was absolutely mashing up forwards on a few tackles and chasing kicks down with McFadden like a man possessed.

I would have thought of TOD as a bit looser than either Henry or McL, IMO his best attribute is his ball carrying and support play. He isn't a beavering tackler or a jackle, at least not in my eyes.

Roger Wilson isn't a bad shout, he looks like he will find it hard getting in the first team though a lot of the time no? I know he started at the weekend but Diack, Henry, Williams would be normal first choice no?

by **profitius** Tue 15 Oct 2013, 12:13 pm

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:
Fitz looks to have lost some bulk. I wonder if it is intentional to try and restore some of the out and out speed. He always fancies a tackle and has fantastic technique. Always attempts to obliterate an opponent when the opportunity arises.
I think he looks bigger if anything. I hope he starts running those midfield lines he used to, that he gets his name on the score sheet some more and most importantly remains injury free.

Kev is a fine player and as you say brings tremendous balance to the backrow but POM playing really well at the moment. I think Schmidt would be slaughtered by our southern brethren if the Leinster 6,7 and 8 were to start for Ireland. If all of our back rows are fit and available I would like to see 6 SOB, 7 TOD, 8 Heaslip/POM.
I think a backrow of Heaslip, SOB and POM is a disaster. I amn't completely sold on how good a player POM is myself, he seems to have unreal games then really poor ones, but either way I think due to the style of player he is, that he is in direct competition with SOB and Heaslip and for me he comes off second best to both. I think Henry or McLaughlin or another work horse are needed in the backrow to allow us to get the most from Heaslip and SOB (not just their carrying but their rucking in wider channels [defense and attack] and their handling skills).

If you were dropping one of those it would be Heaslip.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Tue 15 Oct 2013, 12:33 pm

Personally I wouldn't drop Heaslip profitus but I think I can understand why others would. POM is really athletic and has a serious fire about him. On top of that he is a leader and a good lineout option. Personally, I think Heaslip is a much more intelligent option and has a range of skills POM may not have YET. I think POM still has a fair bit to prove at international level.

In dropping Heaslip you'd obviously disagree with me Prof, what would be your reasoning just out of interest?

by **rodders** Tue 15 Oct 2013, 1:35 pm

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:
Roger Wilson isn't a bad shout, he looks like he will find it hard getting in the first team though a lot of the time no? I know he started at the weekend but Diack, Henry, Williams would be normal first choice no?

Yes and no, seems to have leapfrogged Diack and Hendo for 6 shirt. I think it depends on Williams. Wilson is right in the mix in a very strong back row and playing very well.

That said I think the Irish back row is fairly nailed on, with McLaughlin and Henry battling for the bench spot.

by **profitius** Tue 15 Oct 2013, 1:41 pm

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Personally I wouldn't drop Heaslip profitus but I think I can understand why others would. POM is really athletic and has a serious fire about him. On top of that he is a leader and a good lineout option. Personally, I think Heaslip is a much more intelligent option and has a range of skills POM may not have YET. I think POM still has a fair bit to prove at international level.

In dropping Heaslip you'd obviously disagree with me Prof, what would be your reasoning just out of interest?

Because he was well off form for most of last season and only came back into form a few weeks before the Lions announcement. But I ment if anyone was being dropped it would be him. POM played at 8 on the summer tour and played well there.

I'd play SOB, POM and Heaslip again though. I don't recall the backrow being the problem for Irelands woes and if anything they looked like they were more than holding their own.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Tue 15 Oct 2013, 1:48 pm

No it wasn't the backrow's fault they were punching above their weight a lot of the time and carrying more than their fair share of the team.

BUT, I still believe that Ireland would be more effective with a slightly differently balanced backrow.

I believe that Heaslip has played really well since early April myself and was highly underrated in the 6Nations

by thebandwagonsociety Tue 15 Oct 2013, 1:48 pm

profitius wrote:
pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Personally I wouldn't drop Heaslip profitus but I think I can understand why others would. POM is really athletic and has a serious fire about him. On top of that he is a leader and a good lineout option. Personally, I think Heaslip is a much more intelligent option and has a range of skills POM may not have YET. I think POM still has a fair bit to prove at international level.

In dropping Heaslip you'd obviously disagree with me Prof, what would be your reasoning just out of interest?
Because he was well off form for most of last season and only came back into form a few weeks before the Lions announcement. But I ment if anyone was being dropped it would be him. POM played at 8 on the summer tour and played well there.

I'd play SOB, POM and Heaslip again though. I don't recall the backrow being the problem for Irelands woes and if anything they looked like they were more than holding their own.

True, it is kind of nit picking at one of our few areas of strength.

What are Ireland's problems (maybe this should be another thread)?
- Inconsistent set pieces (yo-yo scrum coupled with wayward lineout)
- Slow forwards standing static in the first receiver position instead of letting quick ball to backs and having the FH in the decision making position of the field
- No apparent adapting of gameplan to conditions and opponent
- Trying to force some creative play from their own 22 instead of playing for field position first
- Trying to go for tries off penalties (usually opting for a dodgy lineout) instead of taking points on offer
- Still reliant on the older statesmen (BOD, POC) and the next in line haven't really taken ownership of the team (Kearney, POM, Heaslip, SOB, Sexton, Healy, etc)

by Jenifer McLadyboy Tue 15 Oct 2013, 4:45 pm

rodders wrote:Roger Wilson.

Behave Rodders!

You'll be telling me he's the 2nd best back row in Ireland next....... If we are dragging up guys who would compliment SOB and Heaslip then Jennings would be ahead of Roger for me. (along with many others)

Ferris, O'Brien Heaslip with O'Mahonny on the bench is Ireland's best back row buy a mile for me. If you had a Gleeson type link player that might be good balance. But Henry is way too slow (though decent on the floor). O'Donnell is more of a carrier, bit of an SOB lite. All of those plus McLaughlin, Jennings, Ruddock, Murphy and perhaps others would be ahead of Wilson for me. (Just balancing up your northern bias with some eastern bias Wink

)

The only reason I can see that Henderson is behind Wilson is that he is seen as a 2nd row at this point. Rightly imho as we have 6s come out our holes but not enough 4s and 5s.

by Gibson Tue 15 Oct 2013, 7:35 pm

Strongly agree on the need for a balanced Irish backrow. Kidney is gone. Now is the chance to set it right.

For me, Locky and Heaslip must play at 6 & 8.

Take yer pick at 7... but... SOB would be hard to drop now eh?

Locky reminds so much of Richard Hill. Puts in masses of work. Tackles everything that moves, has great go-forward power and he makes it so much easier for his unit to operate. He is the perfect 6.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Wed 16 Oct 2013, 8:26 am

Band wrote:- Inconsistent set pieces (yo-yo scrum coupled with wayward lineout)
- Slow forwards standing static in the first receiver position instead of letting quick ball to backs and having the FH in the decision making position of the field
- No apparent adapting of gameplan to conditions and opponent
- Trying to force some creative play from their own 22 instead of playing for field position first
- Trying to go for tries off penalties (usually opting for a dodgy lineout) instead of taking points on offer
- Still reliant on the older statesmen (BOD, POC) and the next in line haven't really taken ownership of the team (Kearney, POM, Heaslip, SOB, Sexton, Healy, etc)

Totally agree with most of these. I think that second one is a massive, massive issue. Very few other teams are as bad at it as we are and it bothers me so much. Really hate it.

I think having Luke Marshall in at 12 will be a huge bonus as he is a realistic go forward option in the backs, having Bowe back will also get us moving forward if he is used right. Add to this that Murray has upped his game a lot since the 6Nations and that may give Sexton (one of our best players) the ball to command authority and start dictating the game the way he can.

I agree with Gibbo's summary of Locky too.

by **rodders** Wed 16 Oct 2013, 9:54 am

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:
rodders wrote:Roger Wilson.
Behave Rodders!

You'll be telling me he's the 2nd best back row in Ireland next..

Actually no.... he's the 3rd...behind Nick Williams and Chris Henry ...... Run

by thebandwagonsociety Wed 16 Oct 2013, 11:05 am

Pete - I agree Murray has improved in a lot of areas of his game, the Lions trip really gave him a look at what someone like phillips can do (and he probably realised he is well capable of producing similar performances).

I have seen much of his box kicking this season, but last year I got very annoyed when he would decide to box kick as too often they were either too long and didn't give the chaser a chance or else he would try the dink over the top when the winger for that side of the field was actually at the bottom of the breakdown.

Also, he tends to try and make a mini break himself around the fringes after someone has made an initial break. While this is good some of the time, it would be better to get the ball to the outhalf quickly and allow the OH to idenitfy where the defensive line has gaps or are out of position. Also, when he does the mini break, if he doesn't make good yardage, your scrumhalf is then under the next breakdown and there is slower ball to the OH and the entire defensive line has had a chance to match up.

He is our best scrumhalf, and has a lot of good qualities. I'd just like him to improve in those two areas.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Wed 16 Oct 2013, 1:14 pm

I'm totally with you Band, when good ground has been made it should stick with the forwards most of the time and Murray can get a little tunnel-visioned but he has improved a lot.

Personally I see Marmion overtaking him in and around Christmas next year. That is what I am hoping for anyway. I think Marmion is the best scrumhalf we have seen in a long, long time from Ireland.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Wed 16 Oct 2013, 1:18 pm

the Leinster team I'd like to see this weekend

Healy- best loosehead in the world IMO
Cronin- best option and maybe consistent starts will make him consistent in facets of play
Ross- if fit I think he should play to steady the scrum before Moore comes on for impact
Toner- playing very well
McCarthy- slightly better than Roux IMO
McLaughlin- best option
SOB- best option
Heaslip- best option
Boss- considerably better than Reddan currently I think
Goppereth- has been playing well and can attack so I think should start, with Madigan in early
Kearney- has done well enough so far
Darcy- experienced man in midfield may be necessary for continuity
McFadden- a good outside centre if nothing more, facilitates Fitz on the wing
Fitzgerald- looked really hungry when he came on and hopefully can kick on
Kearney- better game last week but still has a lot to show

Dundon-McGrath-Moore-Roux-Ruddock-Reddan-Madigan-Macken

by Mickado Wed 16 Oct 2013, 1:49 pm

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:the Leinster team I'd like to see this weekend

Healy- best loosehead in the world IMO
Cronin- best option and maybe consistent starts will make him consistent in facets of play
Ross- if fit I think he should play to steady the scrum before Moore comes on for impact
Toner- playing very well
McCarthy- slightly better than Roux IMO
McLaughlin- best option
SOB- best option
Heaslip- best option
Boss- considerably better than Reddan currently I think
Goppereth- has been playing well and can attack so I think should start, with Madigan in early
Kearney- has done well enough so far
Darcy- experienced man in midfield may be necessary for continuity
McFadden- a good outside centre if nothing more, facilitates Fitz on the wing
Fitzgerald- looked really hungry when he came on and hopefully can kick on
Kearney- better game last week but still has a lot to show

Dundon-McGrath-Moore-Roux-Ruddock-Reddan-Madigan-Macken

I know i might be lambasted for saying this, but even if Ross is fit this week I'd go with Moore. He had a baptism of fire against an Ospreys pack with 5 Lions in it, and he not only didn't make a show of himself, but he put the squeeze on excellently a few times. Ross aint going to be playing much longer, no harm to let him recover fully from injury, start Moradze and a new era of homegrown scrummaging at Leinster.

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