Top 10 most Naturally "Gifted" fighters I've seen in my lifetime !!

These are the most talented fighters |I've seen first hand in my lifetime.........Some went on to be greater than others because maybe application, bad luck or just plain stupidity cost them...........But here it and it's completely subjective..

I caught the tail end of some careers like Benitez........Duran etc...........Manny makes the best of what he has got.......and is a huge overrachiever..

1. Tommy Hearns
2. Roy Jones jr
3. Ray Leonard
3. Floyd Mayweather
5. Pernell Whittaker
6. Michael Nunn
7. Naseem Hamed
8. Hector Camacho
9. Michael Spinks
10. Don Curry............

I'll have a stab for you Truss. Ray Leonard tops. Could do it all. Whittaker second. Uncanny ability, almost freakish ability to avoid punches in his pomp. Floyd third, defensive genius what more can you add. Roy fourth couldn't fight off the ropes like Ray so rightly or wrongly I don't have him quite as high as some but for speed and athleticism he 'd probably be tops. Tommy just can't agree with you on this Truss, world class attributes but all round most talented, not for me. Hamed's skillset easily nullified by Barrera, Camacho's by Chavez, skillset has to be measured against the very very best surely? Curry superb offensive skillset but the rest is history.

Kirkland Laing. All the talent in the world but more interested in zoot.

Depends how we define gifted Truss ? Always a tricky one, Kirkland Laing probably stands out as extremely gifted and Herol Graham. But guys like Chavez should be mentioned , just because he doesn't do the razzle dazzle top apply pressure, switching to head and body is gifted to me. Fighters have many different naturally gifted attributes , it's near impossible to pinpoint a stand out for me.

Cheers Rodders

At the risk of being boring, then if you're talking naturally 'gifted', Ricardo Lopez should be there somewhere, especially if you have Hamed at 7. Lopez probably hit as hard, or only fractionally less, and was way more balanced a fighter.

He was pretty tough to catch until right at the end of career and there wasn't a thing he couldn't do offensively. Anyone who can knock someone out with a counter left uppercut whilst moving backwards has to be naturally gifted. He did it all seamlessly and economically and was beautiful to watch.

As Rodders says, it is almost impossible to define, but he should be near the top of the list you have posted. Probably at 6 or 7.

1. Ray Leonard
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Roy Jones jr
4. Alexis Arguello
5. Salvador Sanchez
6. Floyd Mayweather
7. Roberto Duran
8. Michael Spinks
9.Wilfred Benitez
10. Tomas Hearns/John Conteh

You have no pressure fighters on your list Trussman, and this confirms your preference/bias towards the slicker fighters. nothing wrong with that but it's there for all to see. Some would say it takes more skill to avoid punches going forward, Ray Leonard tried it once but never again.

Great list Nico..So I imagine you are older than me........

First fight I saw Ali in was Holmes.............First fight I ever saw was Holmes v Norton.......

some great names there.........Not sure how naturally talented sanchez was but he was a great fighter.....

Have no doubts If I was older some of the names you mention would be in there.......

Ricardo Lopez is someone I considered.........

As for Laing I'll be honest and say I haven't seen much of the guy.......Graham impressed for sure but I always felt he was lacking somewhere...

Tommy Hearns for me Herman outboxes anyone in history.............

Hugely gifted.......The best jab of the lot........The most power...........Great footwork and speed........and huge at his weight..

but you are free to disagree Mate.

They are all pressure fighters in a way Hermy......But If you mean come forward aggressive types then no.........Whilst talented those types seem more one dimensional than their Mates........

He wouldn't go anywhere near McCallum though would he. I had Mike winning that by stoppage at the time no disrepect to Tommy, I remember there was plenty of interest in that fight, much more so than there ever was say for Hagler Spinks.

Sorry but Hearns never lacked bottle...........

Never said he did, don't put words in my mouth, I think McCallum would have OUTBOXED him.

Curry outboxed Mccallum........so did Mccrory until he got worn down.........Kalambay outboxed mccallum........

Come on...........

Manny steered Tommy away from Mike, knew he got the better of in sparring, at least that was the rumour.

Who ever outboxed Tommy Hearns in the whole of his career ??

Another Simple question.......Is mccallum a better boxer than your number 1 Leonard ?

Must be because Leonard couldn't outbox him..

Steward did a lot of work with mccallum at kronk and I'm sure he didn't want two of his fighters fighting I'm sure.......

Which is more like it.

Wasn't Joe Calzaghe a natural?

No he was a caesarian..

You should do a top 20, I think Calzaghe gets in that  as does Bomber Graham, be interesting to see what other names turn up.

Maybe you could.....you've done alright on here........

Even If you didn't answer the questions I asked you.

Styles makes fights. Now I'm hungry. Thanks for the compliment and good thread. Look forward to seeing your top 20 when I come back.

James Toney?

Not for me Mate..

Should this be "naturally gifted boxers" rather than "fighters"?

When you think of natural fighters you think Chavez, Morales, Duran, Tyson, Tony Ayala Jr. etc.

If it's naturally talented boxers then I can't see past Meldrick Taylor and Roy Jones.

Less heralded guys would include Ricky Williams, Tyrell Biggs, John David Jackson -- depends what the criteria is exactly.

J.Benson II wrote:James Toney?

Tony was a technician -- like Hopkins. His technique helped separate him from the rest.

hazharrison wrote:Should this be "naturally gifted boxers" rather than "fighters"?

When you think of natural fighters you think Chavez, Morales, Duran, Tyson, Tony Ayala Jr. etc.

If it's naturally talented boxers then I can't see past Meldrick Taylor and Roy Jones.

Less heralded guys would include Ricky Williams, Tyrell Biggs, John David Jackson -- depends what the criteria is exactly.

I'm happy with the title........

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Great list Nico..So I imagine you are older than me........

First fight I saw Ali in was Holmes.............First fight I ever saw was Holmes v Norton.......

some great names there.........Not sure how naturally talented sanchez was but he was a great fighter.....

Have no doubts If I was older some of the names you mention would be in there.......

Ricardo Lopez is someone I considered.........

As for Laing I'll be honest and say I haven't seen much of the guy.......Graham impressed for sure but I always felt he was lacking somewhere...

Tommy Hearns for me Herman outboxes anyone in history.............

Hugely gifted.......The best jab of the lot........The most power...........Great footwork and speed........and huge at his weight..

but you are free to disagree Mate.

They are all pressure fighters in a way Hermy......But If you mean come forward aggressive types then no.........Whilst talented those types seem more one dimensional than their Mates........

I must be Truss,You would have liked Conteh,very talented boxer,and a tough tough man, fought Saad Muhammad with one hand and got beat on majority decision, only man to take Saad Muhammad the distance.
Conteh was a good looking lad, liked the women and the night clubs that was his downfall,most talented British fighter in my lifetime.

Have to say the only fight I saw was Saad 2 of Conteh........Jack in the box stuff.

But heard good things about him.........Not the first fighter to throw it away.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Have to say the only fight I saw was Saad 2 of Conteh........Jack in the box stuff.

But heard good things about him.........Not the first fighter to throw it away.

Read his book I Conteh he said going over on the plane for Saad 2 is the only time in his life he'd been frightened and knew he wouldn't win the fight,also made a career mistake left Mickey Duff and decided to manage himself, and he was made to pay big time,don't bite the hand that feeds you comes to mind.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

hazharrison wrote:Should this be "naturally gifted boxers" rather than "fighters"?

When you think of natural fighters you think Chavez, Morales, Duran, Tyson, Tony Ayala Jr. etc.

If it's naturally talented boxers then I can't see past Meldrick Taylor and Roy Jones.

Less heralded guys would include Ricky Williams, Tyrell Biggs, John David Jackson -- depends what the criteria is exactly.

I'm happy with the title........

I imagine you'd be happy with a tyre on a bit of rope (high five Frankie Boyle).

semantics.........

seanmichaels wrote:Wasn't Joe Calzaghe a natural?

thought Joe and his dad masterminded their way to the top excellently, but a lot of it was built around smart tactics and supreme fitness and sharpness. wouldn't say he was a natural exactly myself

Eubank was naturally gifted. not saying he would make top 10, but probably top 10 British...in my lifetime anyway. Extremely arrogant and rarely took any advice. I remember him shocking Lewis with how unorthodox and untrained he seemed to be. Fought on instinct alone, and with very poor fitness

Top 10 most Naturally "Gifted" fighters I've seen in my lifetime !!
Ottke was "Gifted" a few in his time!

Decent list truss. As haz says, taylor must be knocking on the door and Norris.

I disagree on hearns, only in definition of talented. Tommy was a great boxer, but it was his freakish build (and his ability to take advantage of it obviously) that enabled to him to outbox the best of his generation. I'm not sure I'd call that a talent, but I guess it's semantics.

milkyboy wrote:Decent list truss. As haz says, taylor must be knocking on the door and Norris.

I disagree on hearns, only in definition of talented. Tommy was a great boxer, but it was his freakish build (and his ability to take advantage of it obviously) that enabled to him to outbox the best of his generation. I'm not sure I'd call that a talent, but I guess it's semantics.

His success was all hard work -- Steward said he was average and couldn't punch when he walked into the gym but was the hardest worker he ever had.

Steward said a lot of things............Like Hilmer Kenty was one of the most talented  lightweights of alltime...

You don't have natural power through hard work........You don't stand 6ft 2 at 147 without freak genetics and you don't just learn to have the greatest jab in boxing history......and one of the best rights..

Now I know you base everything on what someone else says..

me I'll stick with commonsense

Greg Page should have been an ATG. Supremely talented. Had it all for a HW except for mental application. Seems to be a common theme with naturally talented fighters. Rely on talent and ignore the hard work.

Then again when that man is his trainer you have to take his opinion into consideration. On the flip side of course no boxer is natural, they still require a lot training and advice on how to utilise their physical gifts. Take Mayweather for example, without the training of Floyd Sr and Uncle roger he wouldn't be able to fight the way he does.

Great call Az..........Most naturally gifted heavy I ever saw.........Just wouldn't train his lard-butt......

Beating Tubbs till he gassed.......and gave Witherspoon a close fight even though he refused to train out of a beef with King.......

Sad story the Page one............Holmes quit the wbc because of him also..

Not quite enough to make the top 10 though..

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Then again when that man is his trainer you have to take his opinion into consideration. On the flip side of course no boxer is natural, they still require a lot training and advice on how to utilise their physical gifts. Take Mayweather for example, without the training of Floyd Sr and Uncle roger he wouldn't be able to fight the way he does.

1. Absolutely
2. Just because he was his ex-trainer doesn't make it FACT.............

People have a habit of quoting someone and that's it..........end of debate.

Steward is the one person I would listen to when it comes to the Kronk gym 'originals'. When it comes to someone like Wlad a lot of what he said seemed to be a confidence building exercise. The power will always have been there but it took Steward to train it out of him, old amateur footage shows a fairly ungainly fighter who didn't look like such a prospect.

Fair enough...............

But I think trainers are overrated...........

Weightlifters would all look like Arnie and everybody could be an alltime great Boxer............

Kenty, Mcrory, Paul, Duane Thomas, caveman Lee, Alvin Hayes all flopped at the top level............

Because......They didn't have Hearns natural gifts even though they had the same teacher.....Hearns was a freak..In my opinion

Fact is no one outboxed him.............

A name that does not often get mentioned in these debates is Joan Guzman. Beautiful defensive fighter and good range of punches, just not one tenth of the discipline needed to get the best of his skills.

Lance wrote:Eubank was naturally gifted. not saying he would make top 10, but probably top 10 British...in my lifetime anyway. Extremely arrogant and rarely took any advice. I remember him shocking Lewis with how unorthodox and untrained he seemed to be. Fought on instinct alone, and with very poor fitness

Said he would never fight Herol Graham after been given a boxing lesson in sparring,Eubank said he couldn't lay a glove on Graham.

Nico the gman wrote:

Lance wrote:Eubank was naturally gifted. not saying he would make top 10, but probably top 10 British...in my lifetime anyway. Extremely arrogant and rarely took any advice. I remember him shocking Lewis with how unorthodox and untrained he seemed to be. Fought on instinct alone, and with very poor fitness

Said he would never fight Herol Graham after been given a boxing lesson in sparring,Eubank said he couldn't lay a glove on Graham.

You'll know more about Graham than me..........All I ever saw were disaster nights......

Guzman is an excellent call.........

Rowley wrote:A name that does not often get mentioned in these debates is Joan Guzman. Beautiful defensive fighter and good range of punches, just not one tenth of the discipline needed to get the best of his skills.

Good call rowley. Was a come forward ko merchant who quite subtlety seemed to morph into a slick boxer as he moved through the weights. I think he moved through the weights because he couldn't be arsed to lose it. Big waste of talent.

Nico the gman wrote:

Lance wrote:Eubank was naturally gifted. not saying he would make top 10, but probably top 10 British...in my lifetime anyway. Extremely arrogant and rarely took any advice. I remember him shocking Lewis with how unorthodox and untrained he seemed to be. Fought on instinct alone, and with very poor fitness

Said he would never fight Herol Graham after been given a boxing lesson in sparring,Eubank said he couldn't lay a glove on Graham.

The Eubank graham story I heard was that he sparred with him and couldn't lay a glove on him for 2 weeks... And then starched him in their last session. At least that's how chris tells it I think.. Whilst admitting it was a frustrating enough experience to know he didnt want to fight him for money.

Rowley wrote:A name that does not often get mentioned in these debates is Joan Guzman. Beautiful defensive fighter and good range of punches, just not one tenth of the discipline needed to get the best of his skills.

Good call what a waste of talent,never known a fighter fail on the scales like this fella,if ever a hob nailed boot up the jacksy was needed.

milkyboy wrote:

Nico the gman wrote:

Lance wrote:Eubank was naturally gifted. not saying he would make top 10, but probably top 10 British...in my lifetime anyway. Extremely arrogant and rarely took any advice. I remember him shocking Lewis with how unorthodox and untrained he seemed to be. Fought on instinct alone, and with very poor fitness

Said he would never fight Herol Graham after been given a boxing lesson in sparring,Eubank said he couldn't lay a glove on Graham.

The Eubank graham story I heard was that he sparred with him and couldn't lay a glove on him for 2 weeks... And then starched him in their last session. At least that's how chris tells it I think.. Whilst admitting it was a frustrating enough experience to know he didnt want to fight him for money.

Never heard that one I know Eubank wouldn't fight him though straight from the horses mouth.

Re manny steward on his fighters. He is on record as saying that McClellan was the most physically gifted fighter he trained. He had such a bond with tommy that both McClellan and mccallum felt sidelined and left... One of the reasons mccallum wanted a hearns fight, the other being he felt he could beat him.

Johnny Nelson tells the story of the Eubank Graham sparring in his biography. Says Chris was there about a week and in the first few days could not get close to him but he stuck at it and started to work him out as the week progressed and by the end of the week he was holding his own and did put Herol over at some point. Says though the idea that Graham stood him on his head throughout is basically nonsense.