Home Nations,5Ns and 6Ns

Home Nations (UK plus Republic of Ireland) ran from 1883-1910 and 1932-9, England was suspended 2years 1885-6 over broken time payments which lead to League.

France was suspended 1932-9 over allegations of professionalism, 5 Ns therefore 1910-32 then 1939-2000 becomes 6Ns.

* denotes shared title.++DENOTES POINTS DIFFERENCE.

Home Nations by Country

England 1883-4, 1890*, 1897-8*, 5Ns 1910, 1912*-3-4, 1920, 1923 - 4, 1928, 1930, HomeNations 1932*, 1934, 1937, 1939*, 5Ns 1954*, 1957-8, 1960*, 1963, 1973*[5 way tie only time ever], 1991-2, 1995-6++, 6Ns 2000-1++, 2003, 2011.

Scotland Home Nations 1885-6-7-8*++, 1889-90*-91, 1895, 1901-2-3-4, 1907, 1933. 5Ns 1925-6*-7*, 1929, 1964*, 1973*, 1984, 1986*, 1990 and 1999.

Ireland Home Nations1888++, 1894, 1896, 1906*, 1932, 5Ns 1926*-7*, 1948-9, 1951++, 1973*-4, 1982-3*, 1985 and 6Ns 2009.

France 5Ns 1954*-5*,1959, 1967-8*, 1970*, 1973*, 1977, 1981, 1983, 1986, 1988*-9, 1993, 1997-8, 6Ns 2002, 2006++, 2007++, 2010.

Wales Home Nations 1893, 1900, 1902, 1905-6*, 1908-9, 1932*, 1936, 1939., 5Ns 1950, 1952-3-4*-5*-6,1964*-5-6, 1969-70-1-2-3*, 1975-6, 1978-9-80, 1988 and 1994. 6Ns 2005, 2008, 2012, 2013++

Just a tip next time someone gives you GBH of the ear about how great SCW`s side was[IT WAS BUT] print out this thread and show them how.

Working  amateurs with none of todays aids, won 2 matches versus the 1953 AllBlacks, won 1 versus the 1963 All Blacks, 3 versus the 1972-3 AllBlacks. A winning Lions Tour in Nz plus a Drawn and won one in SA and dominated NH Rugby over a period of 20 years.

Then ask if today's prima donnas could do a weeks hard work and achieve as much with there facilities.      

Just a heads up I ntend splitting Rwc,and 3 Ns from the June AI results for pro era.
Will concentrate on tours both in coming and outgoing SH to SH,and NH to SH.
For convenience a lot of early tours were A British team not strictly Lions but wil
be treated as such.With Major tours where possible will list all losses not just tests.
BUT Nz in 1977-95 period were so busy with tours it was like a blue bottle with the runs
lions tours,major tours,to Europe and sa/nz/oz will as far as poss be separate entities.

Nice to see you've found the paragraph marker Alan! Nice start, thanks dude.

Five way tie? 1973? The year I was born? There was literally no winner? That's too good to be true!

"France was suspended 1932-9 over allegations of professionalism".

Alas but for a time travel device we could've sent the England of 2011 back to take their place and test the theory. No chance of them being suspended on similar grounds.

Apologies Alan. As you were. But that was just too irresistible.

Which was the 5Ns disrupted by teams not travelling to Ireland - was that 1972?

1967 foot and mouth disrupted teams travelling to Ireland,was also reason All blacks didn't tour there.

VietGwentRevisited wrote:Which was the 5Ns disrupted by teams not travelling to Ireland - was that 1972?

Checking up, yes it was 1972 - when Scotland and Wales chose not to travel to Dublin, following - well let us just say troubles, this is a rugby board after all.

Folklore has it that England got a 5 minute round of applause when they took to the Lansdowne Rd pitch in 1973. After losing captain john Pullin is reputed to have said something like "Well we are not very good, but at least we turned up"

Thanks Viet gwent that`s news to me but 1967 was as above for foot and mouth.

On that last bit about the prima donnas you have to remember that back then they were playing teams in the same boat. I.e they had been working for weeks too. So it's a bit hard to compare them.

Wasn't a later one disrupted as well due to the last foot and mouth outbreak? Am sure the re-arranged Wales v Ireland fixture led to Graham Henry quitting as Ireland thumped us.

Analysis and conclusions Tours will be treated separately
1883-1914[note England suspended for 2years in this period over broken time payments[alleged]
England 10[2],Ireland 6[2],Scotland 11[1],Wales9[1]
Conclusions Eng,Scot,Wales,roughly equal.Golden Scotland Era
First NZ and SA tours will be treated later
Between the Wars[note France suspended 1932-9 for alleged professionlisim
England 10[3],Ireland 4[3],Scotland 6[3],Wales 6 [3]
Conclusions England dominant [especially early 20`s under Sir Wavell-Wakefield]
Evolution by Wavell -Wakefield,Voyce,Blakiston of the Scrum defence system now universal
Blindside,Number 8,Openside,NZ teams used a variation of it[maybe be basis of a separate thread]
1947-70 Eng 6[3],Ireland 3,Scotland 2[1],Wales 11[5],France 9,
Conclusions Wales very dominant, rise of France,Ireland [successful just either side of these
periods built around Jackie Kyles kicking and a great Pack especially back row]
France`s first Great period under Mias,Moncla,with Cruaste,the Boniface Brothers,
Martine,Albaledjo,Domenech.
Introduction of the famous France Lineout peel,start of short Tours in this era[roughly speaking]
1970-95
England 4[1],Ireland5[2],Scotland 4[2],Wales 10[3],France 9
Conclusions England some success under Cooke/Rowell certainly stastically,Wales continued
domination over a period of roughly 20 years,France successful too
France during this period Guy/Didier Camberbero father/son goal kicking and more abrasive
French style,less running from every where[that is a very loose analysis but broadly accurate]
The Pro Era
England 5,Ireland 1,Scotland 1,Wales 4,France 7
ConclusionsEngland SCW RWC won,relative lack of success in 6Ns only 2001-3 when they unbeatable[nearly] indeed in one season they were just that[2003?] then 10 years in the doldrums.Gradual recovery under Stuart Lancaster[,also relative success RWC 2007]
Ireland`s second Grand Slam,Wales 3 in the period,France most dominant side.
Figures in parentheses indicate shared titles 1973 was THE only 5 way tie in history
Grand Slams
England 12,Wales11,Ireland 10,Scotland 11,France 9
Triple Crowns
England 23,Wales 21,Ireland10,Scotland 11,