Scarlets vs Ulster

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Scarlets Vs Ulster  @ Parc Y Scarlets, Saturday 2nd November, 18:30

Scarlets XV and replacements:

15 Gareth Owen; 14 Nick Reynolds; 13 Gareth Maule; 12 Adam Warren; 11 Jordan Williams; 10 Steve Shingler; 9 Gareth Davies; 1 Phil John (capt); 2 Kirby Myhill; 3; Samson Lee ; 4; Jake Ball; 5 George Earle; 6 Aaron Shingler; 7 Josh Turnbull; 8 Sione Timani
Replacements: 16 Darran Harris, 17 Rob Evans, 18 Jacobie Adriaanse, 19 Johan Synman, 20 John Barclay, 21 Aled Davies, 22 Aled Thomas, 23 Chris Knight.


Ulster XV and replacements:

(15-9): J Payne (Captain), A Trimble, D Cave, C Farell, M Allen, R Pienaar, P Marshall;
(1-8): C Black, R Herring, J Afoa, L Stevenson, N McComb, R Diack, R Wilson, N Williams; Replacements
(16-23): N Annett, K McCall, R Lutton, M McComish, S Doyle, J McKinney, R Andrew, D McIlwaine.

Not even a LBP.

Well done Scarlets, well deserved winners.

My god that was bad from Ulster.  I think the players we had playing out of position really hurt us.  Pienaar had probably his worst ever game in an Ulster shirt playing 10 for the first time in a long long time.  We had no openside with Wilson playing 7 who became so frustrated that he basically asked Rolland to give him a yellow card with that ridiculous trip.

As a result of Wilson at 7 we seemed to go with a strategy of not really contesting the breakdown and instead of committing many men to it we just opted for numbers in the defensive line.  It worked to some extent as we kept Scarlets out after about 30 phases in the first half...but you cannot play an entire match like that in those conditions.

On top of that without Jackson and Pienaar playing out of position our out of hand kicking was very poor and most surprisingly the Scarlets probably got the upper hand in the scrum...which I can only really attribute to us having McComb and Stevenson in the second row....as that front row with Muller and Tuohy usually mullers every scrum they come up against.

All in all a night to forget for Ulster, but if there is one game you could choose to lose then it might be the one when all your internationals are called up, as thats when so many teams struggle.

Good result for the Scarlets though, keeps them in contention for the playoffs.

Really quite annoyed by that. The players that were missing cannot account for some of the poor basic skills we seen from 1-15 tonight. I think Marshall and Allen going off was costly.

That was just poor. And you have to wonder what the mentality is, when they lose a few of their big irish names. Do they lose confidence without them?

I hope Anscombe gives them what for in the changing room.

Well done Scarlets though. Some great kicking from hand, and controlled the game.

Jared Payne looked like a great replacement for BOD alright.....

Jeebus but you truely are a merchant banker ME-109, a constant WUM with no constructive or informative input on this forum. Idiot

rodders wrote:Well done Scarlets, well deserved winners.

Definitely. Very frustrating game. We missed Paddy Jackson desperately. He drags us through those kind of games with his kicking from hand and decision making.

Pete330v2 wrote:Jeebus but you truely are a merchant banker ME-109, a constant WUM with no constructive or informative input on this forum. Idiot

ah ah ah...ok here is some constructive input. Jared Payne is touted by some as the next replacement for BOD as OC. He was rubbish tonight....given the type of game I don't believe there can be any other type of input......now go and have an orange squash or something

Aye, but he's been pretty exceptional in recent weeks. I'd say if you assessed many Ulster players on that performance they'd come up lacking. Fortunately the season is 22 games long and we'll see the class these guys possess over its course.

Notch wrote:Aye, but he's been pretty exceptional in recent weeks. I'd say if you assessed many Ulster players on that performance they'd come up lacking. Fortunately the season is 22 games long and we'll see the class these guys possess over its course.

That is true...the HC games seem to be more a barometer...

ME-109 wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:Jeebus but you truely are a merchant banker ME-109, a constant WUM with no constructive or informative input on this forum. Idiot

ah ah ah...ok here is some constructive input. Jared Payne is touted by some as the next replacement for BOD as OC. He was rubbish tonight....given the type of game I don't believe there can be any other type of input......now go and have an orange squash or something

Yea, cos we all know that to be an Ireland representative, the criteria includes NEVER having a bad game for your club ever.

Valid point ME-109, these high standards are the very reason Ireland are demolishing every other side in the world in recent years.

Just right, no way should we lower our standrds by letting in players who have single one-off bad games.

Slippery slope that one.

Oh wait...

actually...

no...

no, i've changed my mind...

...you are a man sausage.

clivemcl wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:Jeebus but you truely are a merchant banker ME-109, a constant WUM with no constructive or informative input on this forum. Idiot

ah ah ah...ok here is some constructive input. Jared Payne is touted by some as the next replacement for BOD as OC. He was rubbish tonight....given the type of game I don't believe there can be any other type of input......now go and have an orange squash or something

Yea, cos we all know that to be an Ireland representative, the criteria includes NEVER having a bad game for your club ever.

Valid point ME-109, these high standards are the very reason Ireland are demolishing every other side in the world in recent years.

Just right, no way should we lower our standrds by letting in players who have single one-off bad games.

Slippery slope that one.

Oh wait...

actually...

no...

no, i've changed my mind...

...you are a man sausage.

ooooh clive I am impressed...looks like you have grown a pair...good man...

ME-109 wrote:

clivemcl wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:Jeebus but you truely are a merchant banker ME-109, a constant WUM with no constructive or informative input on this forum. Idiot

ah ah ah...ok here is some constructive input. Jared Payne is touted by some as the next replacement for BOD as OC. He was rubbish tonight....given the type of game I don't believe there can be any other type of input......now go and have an orange squash or something

Yea, cos we all know that to be an Ireland representative, the criteria includes NEVER having a bad game for your club ever.

Valid point ME-109, these high standards are the very reason Ireland are demolishing every other side in the world in recent years.

Just right, no way should we lower our standrds by letting in players who have single one-off bad games.

Slippery slope that one.

Oh wait...

actually...

no...

no, i've changed my mind...

...you are a man sausage.

ooooh clive I am impressed...looks like you have grown a pair...good man...

Have I been magically transported back to school? I'd love to know what age ME-109 is! Bizarre.

clivemcl wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

clivemcl wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:Jeebus but you truely are a merchant banker ME-109, a constant WUM with no constructive or informative input on this forum. Idiot

ah ah ah...ok here is some constructive input. Jared Payne is touted by some as the next replacement for BOD as OC. He was rubbish tonight....given the type of game I don't believe there can be any other type of input......now go and have an orange squash or something

Yea, cos we all know that to be an Ireland representative, the criteria includes NEVER having a bad game for your club ever.

Valid point ME-109, these high standards are the very reason Ireland are demolishing every other side in the world in recent years.

Just right, no way should we lower our standrds by letting in players who have single one-off bad games.

Slippery slope that one.

Oh wait...

actually...

no...

no, i've changed my mind...

...you are a man sausage.

ooooh clive I am impressed...looks like you have grown a pair...good man...

Have I been magically transported back to school? I'd love to know what age ME-109 is! Bizarre.

Sounds like you never left school Clive...

Forwards win matches and that was a great forward display by the Scarlets 8. Ulster can't complain, they had little ball and were constantly driven back in the tackle and the scrums.

Timani was official man of the match but special mention for Phil John, Samson Lee, Jake Ball and Josh Turnbull. They played superb power rugby, against an experienced and quality Ulster 8, and they are all Welsh qualified!

Seagultaf wrote:Forwards win matches and that was a great forward display by the Scarlets 8. Ulster can't complain, they had little ball and were constantly driven back in the tackle and the scrums.

Timani was official man of the match but special mention for Phil John, Samson Lee, Jake Ball and Josh Turnbull. They played superb power rugby, against an experienced and quality Ulster 8, and they are all Welsh qualified!

+1 Would rather an Irish win. But will comfort myself with the benefit of staying ahead of Ulster on the table.

Great to see the Scarlets pack so good as they never used to be.  

I suppose they lose very few forwards to the national side though

Well done to the Scarlets' pack who won the game and deserved to do so.

Easterby deserves a mention for his subs and tactical nous. He identified that Ulster would be weak in the maul and Anscombe didn't see it coming. Pienaar should have been subbed for McKinney, and I suspect if Olding had been on the bench he would have been.

For Ulster not to have a pop at goal in the last minute was just stupid - lack of leadership again shunning a LBP chance. Pienaar should have called it but he had such a poor game in every other respect it was inevitable he wouldn't.

Well done Scarlets. Great play by your forwards.

What was all that nonsence from the commentators about "Scott Holding" being selected at 10 but not wanting to play there????

I suppose they meant Stuart Olding but he's concussed so...

Mrs P

Considering the commentators didn't even recognise the 50 times capped Irish International Andrew Trimble, I don't think they knew too much about rugby outside Wales.

I know. They were nearly as bad as Gusher!!

I spent the first 20 mins shouting "Trimble" everytime they said "Allen" and vice versa!

The commentators said on air that they got to the ground late because the M4 motorway leading to the ground was closed. They were identifying the players from the team sheets they had been given, which had not been updated with the switch on the wings because of their late arrival.

Mind you the BBC web site is just as bad, they have a photo of Gareth Owen, with the caption below saying Jordan Williams. And they don't have the excuse of arriving at the game late!

Now Now Mrs P, Gusher knows his rugby, it's his brain to mouth coordination that lets him down.

Really disappointing performance from too many tonight. Only really Diack and herring with some sort of performance. Well played scarlets. Thoroughly deserved win

Ah sure we're well used to it Seagultaf.

Mind you, still makes me think of Nevin everytime an Ulster player is misidentified. Gusher always struggled to indentify our young fair haired backs.

 

Does anyone else think it would be very strange for anyone in the Ulster set-up to tell a commentator such a thing? Could they have mistaken some randomer with an Ulster hat and a sense of humour for one of our backroom boys???

Interesting Mark Anscombe said we had a poor week 'preparation wise'. What does that mean?

He's under a lot of pressure regarding securing a contract renewal, we are in a great position in our Heineken Cup group but not to be in the Top Four after the first block of games is not good enough.

He has my full support- I'm no advocate for chopping and changing coaches and I think he's taken the team on- it's just that his contract is up at the end of the season and he can't afford many more blips like this.

I guess he meant we trained with Pienaar at 9, Olding at 10 and without Trimble, Cave or Wilson. Then Olding got a bang on the head and that Scott Holding lad we had as back-up refused to play!

Pienaar looked like he really didn't want to be there tonight, if he was only to be playing 10 on account of Olding taking a knock to the head...that may well explain it.

True we couldn't have full scrums in training this week due to internationals. Most of the backline was missing and then we had to move Pienaar to 10.

Pienaar was as poor as he's ever been. I mean he was a 2 or 3 out of 10 tonight. Nothing went right for him. We're very reliant on Paddy Jackson.

Notch wrote:True we couldn't have full scrums in training this week due to internationals. Most of the backline was missing and then we had to move Pienaar to 10.

Pienaar was as poor as he's ever been. I mean he was a 2 or 3 out of 10 tonight. Nothing went right for him. We're very reliant on Paddy Jackson.

We have Stuart Olding at 10 as well don't forget!

Scott Holding doesn't want to play 10!  

 

In all seriousness I think he could be pretty special at 12, and Jackson/Olding could be a combination that serves Ireland very well over the years to come.

I see him as a bit like Matt Giteau, a 12 who can fill in at 10. Similar style of player. But I think when we play Treviso in the Heineken Cup at Ravenhill he should play 15 with Payne at 13. Thats our best all-out attack backline.

We have what could be considered a 'soft' run when we come back from the break with Edinburgh at home, then away to Zebre, the Treviso double header and at home to Zebre.

Certainly in terms of the Pro12 we need to be taking at the very least 13 and preferably 14/15 points from our next 3 games.

How was Scarlets scrum and how was Timani at no.8?

The Saint wrote:How was Scarlets scrum and how was Timani at no.8?

Both very good.  Timani was man of the match with his performance at 8 and the Scarlets scrum was on top.  Which very much surprised me....but I suppose we only had one first choice player in our tight 5 (Afoa) and according to Notch we couldn't practice scrums in training because of the call ups.  Scarlets don't have that many tight 5 players missing to call ups but they still got on top of a reasonably good Ulster front row in the scrum.

Ulster's front-row and back-row look good on paper, but yeah, that is pretty much the forward pack Easterby has been building around this season. Samson Lee should have been called up to the Wales squad too, Shingler isn't far off but there is some great competition for back-row places at the moment. Good news for Scarlets that Timani played well as they don't really have an out and out No.8. I've stated for a while that I think he would be best suited to that position but he didn't have a great start to the season...hopefully he kicks on from here.

The lack of leadership for Ulster is a real worry minus a few front range players -Muller, Best, Henry. Afoa, Pienaar, Wilson and now Payne have all been tried and found wanting as captains.

Bowe's creativity was missed too but as Aukster says we were beaten up front and in those conditions it all comes down the forwards. No excuses as there is enough experience and quality there even without the internationals.

Pienaar is and has always been a very poor fly-half so no surprise in that performance for me.

Overall very disappointing performance but no crisis ...just a few players need to take a look at themselves for that display. That's the kind of ugly game you need to take a point from. Its a good wake up call though. It shows also how much better the depth is at the Welsh regions than the provinces.

I think we missed Rory and Chris Henry the most last night.

How many turn-overs do those guys take for us?

Scarlets' scrum has been so dominant this season so far, except against Zebre where it was pretty even.

Samson Lee is so strong for such a young TH and Adriaanse is a very good backup to have. Jake Ball and Earle have been cracking signings in the row.

rodders wrote:It shows also how much better the depth is at the Welsh regions than the provinces.

You are kidding right?

Was thinking the same saint.

What it shows is that Scarlets only lost 1 player to wales in their pack.

That was basically their 1st choice pack.

Against a mixture of first choice, second choice and third/fourth choice players. Afoa and Williams I guess would be our first choices, and you'd expect Diack and Wilson to be up to that standard too.

Tbh I would have expected more from the Ulster pack. But it was the halfbacks who didn't give us the right territory, who didn't get us in the right parts of the field. If your 9 and 10 are as poor as ours were in those conditions, you've no chance. The forwards did alright at the breakdown, well in defence- the scrum creaked but we won our own ball and the lineout was very solid. While the Scarlets pack was better it wasn't dominant. What happened is we wasted possession and lost the tactical kicking battle. No kick chase, poor kicking, no continuity at all from the backs. Had we controlled territory we could have won but the Scarlets were better able to play into the wind than us due to smarter option taking, better kicking and less ambition to try the hail mary passes.

In previous games outside international windows where we haven't turned up like we didn't last night we've been pulled through by our impact off the bench, our squad depth has rescued us in numerous games. Injuries and call-ups mean we had half our squad missing and nobody to do that- no big names coming on to cover up a poor team display.

Just a poor, poor Ulster performance and the pressure is now on to put together a winning run. Winning the next three games in the Pro12 handsomely is a must and then we need to get the better of Munster and Leinster.

After watching the game again, the main reason Ulster lost was through inferior tactical kicking. Ulster went to Llanelli with the plan to play without the ball, as they did against the Ospreys, so they chose to man up in the tackle and not risk gaps in defence by contesting the breakdown.
Relying on forcing opposition mistakes and penalties was fine, except that Payne and especially Pienaar didn't cope with the challenging wind as well as Owen and Thomas. The two sitters that Pienaar missed would have made the score 14-15 at a crucial time in the game, so the tactics weren't that far from paying off.

It was interesting that so few of the subs were used (2 red, 3 white) but understandable, because the contest was characterised by periods of aerial ping pong culminating in a lineout allowing for plenty of breather-time. Going into the game Anscombe can't be blamed for these tactics as he had a world class half back against the inexperienced Shingler, and the even greener Aled Thomas on the bench. It was really unfair of the English Language commentators to call Gareth Owen - 'a poor man's Gavin Henson', as he and the aforesaid flyhalfs were better on the night than the Ulster counterparts and that was the winning of the game.

I thought there was a period of play when McKinney came on and we shipped ball through the hands it looked half decent. Diack was far our best player I thought, he tried his hardest to get things going but players around him were not on the same level. I also though Stevenson had a very good game got himself around the park took a few lineouts. All we can do is take stock and learn from it. I was also very frustrated with no commentary on Freesat, dunno what was going on. But just compounded the fact that we did not turn up.

The Great Aukster wrote:After watching the game again, the main reason Ulster lost was through inferior tactical kicking. Ulster went to Llanelli with the plan to play without the ball, as they did against the Ospreys, so they chose to man up in the tackle and not risk gaps in defence by contesting the breakdown.
Relying on forcing opposition mistakes and penalties was fine, except that Payne and especially Pienaar didn't cope with the challenging wind as well as Owen and Thomas. The two sitters that Pienaar missed would have made the score 14-15 at a crucial time in the game, so the tactics weren't that far from paying off.

It was interesting that so few of the subs were used (2 red, 3 white) but understandable, because the contest was characterised by periods of aerial ping pong culminating in a lineout allowing for plenty of breather-time. Going into the game Anscombe can't be blamed for these tactics as he had a world class half back against the inexperienced Shingler, and the even greener Aled Thomas on the bench. It was really unfair of the English Language commentators to call Gareth Owen - 'a poor man's Gavin Henson', as he and the aforesaid flyhalfs were better on the night than the Ulster counterparts and that was the winning of the game.

Good points Aukster. I don't think people realise how bad the wind was in South Wales the other night. Caused a load of damage, vehicles overturning leading to the motorway being shut, etc. Had to have an effect on the kicking to a certain extent!

Not wishing to correct you or seem pedantic Great Aukster, but Aled Thomas is actually a bit of a seasoned pro, rather than being 'greener' than Shingler. Thomas is 28 and has been around the block a bit, playing for the Dragons, then going to London Welsh before coming home to the Scarlets for the last few year, and a good few years on the 7s circuit. He's got a bit of a baby face though I suppose!

Fair enough Griff, I suspected he was a bit too cool for a complete tyro, but I thought he looked too good to be more than early 20s or I'd have heard more about him! Maybe that game and conditions suited his skillset, but he looked very solid.

Yeah, he seems to get stuck behind players. At the Dragons he had Jason Tovey in front of him, he moved to London Welsh and then I think they bought Ross and Henson and got promoted, and then at the Scarlets Priestland kept him out and more recently Owen Williams (who has since been snapped up by Leicester). So, not sure if it's because he's a bit inconsistent so is down the pecking order, or whether he's inconsistent because he doesn't get much of a run of games! Tricky one! Does seem to be a decent player now he's at the Scarlets though.

The imminent changes in Euro qualification have made the Rabo a lot more interesting than it used to be which is good.
Excellent Scarlets although Ulster were a bit Toulon-like ie rubbish most of the time.

We were indeed a bit rubbish Dave but nothing can be taken away from the Scarlets who bossed us in how to play those conditions. I did think there would have been a half time turn-around with the wind favouring us but our game management just didn't work out.
No complaints though, it was a game to be forgotten and moved on from.