Should European Tour change logo

So Vardon or Seve, you decide. They are considering this and some big names back changing it to seve.

The only reason they would want to change it to Seve is that he was a character. He was far from the best golfer Europe has seen... and not even the best of his particular era.

LJ, Yet again you ignore the facts. Please do some simple research before posting.

His era was probably 1976 to 1988, injury was hampering him after that.

In that period he won 5 majors.

other europeans won:

Faldo 1
Langer 1
lyle 2

Only Tom Watson won more in that period, with 7 majors in that period. Even if you extend the time period to 1990 faldo still only had 4 by then.

I say leave it.
The Seve Cup is named after Seve which provides a lasting memory.
The problem with changing the logo is then you have to do it again when Faldo dies, Langer dies, Monty dies.....
Before you know it there's no history to the logo at all

MustPuttBetter wrote:I say leave it.
The Seve Cup is named after Seve which provides a lasting memory.
The problem with changing the logo is then you have to do it again when Faldo dies, Langer dies, Monty dies.....
Before you know it there's no history to the logo at all

Good points and maybe they need to think about honouring him through the naming of a regular tour event. I like the idea of a rebranding of one of the Spanish events. Hopefully with the seve name and decent prize fund it would be enough to create another big european event on european soil.

Mac he is listed as a contemporary of Faldo et al... therefore he should be considered alongside their achievements as a whole. Not just a section of those.

His era is very much defined by the Ryder Cup and the players within it. Hence Faldo etc.

He may have more European wins than anyone else... but I don't think he was the best of his era (as I define it)... Not by a long way.

Why could they not have both Seve and Vardon, say each either end of the European Tour text?

Perhaps the family should be consulted?

Haven't they not revealed where his ashes have been interred as they don't want it to become some sort of shrine?

LondonJonnyO wrote:Mac he is listed as a contemporary of Faldo et al... therefore he should be considered alongside their achievements as a whole. Not just a section of those.

His era is very much defined by the Ryder Cup and the players within it. Hence Faldo etc.

He may have more European wins than anyone else... but I don't think he was the best of his era (as I define it)... Not by a long way.

out of interest, who are the many whom you would list above seve as his european contemporaries? or are you just being provocative (as i suspect because it's mac you're replying to )?

I would list his contemporaries as being Faldo, Langer, Lyle, Woosnam.

Basically the group listed as the Big Five in Europe. A group which was all born within 12 months of each other.

As for who I would list as more successful. Faldo. Without any doubt he was the best golfer in that generation.

now, i was a big fan of sandy's but i couldn't possibly list him above seve, nor woosnam, nor even langer for that matter, although he's racked up a very successful champions tour career.

faldo, well, you'd think he was more successful perhaps but against seve's 91 professional wins (with 5 majors), faldo had 40 professional wins (with 6 majors).

however you cut it, seve was the most successful of the bunch and he was seve which in most people's minds will always put him at the head of the pack.

LJ

No matter when they were born Seve and Faldo won there majors in different golfing era's.

I don't measure it purely by the number of wins he had.

He was second to Faldo in major wins. Second in number of Ryder Cup points. And to my mind just second best to the man.

If anyone deserves to be up there when they peg it... It's Sir Nick

I don't see this as a matter of who won what, more a question of what each of them did to promote the European tour.

I think on that issue, Seve wins by a country mile. He was the Tiger Woods of his day in terms of attracting fans and sponsors to the tour. The tour was very very much a second rate outfit compared to the PGA tour. Thanks to Seve and those that subsequently followed him, it now stands as an equal (some would say above) the PGA tour.

For that reason alone, I'm in favour of the tour rebranding it's logo.

An interesting point. But I still think it should stay as it is.

drive4show wrote:I don't see this as a matter of who won what, more a question of what each of them did to promote the European tour.

I think on that issue, Seve wins by a country mile. He was the Tiger Woods of his day in terms of attracting fans and sponsors to the tour. The tour was very very much a second rate outfit compared to the PGA tour. Thanks to Seve and those that subsequently followed him, it now stands as an equal (some would say above) the PGA tour.

For that reason alone, I'm in favour of the tour rebranding it's logo.

there was a lot made of this on a tribute i saw the other day. i never realised quite how much he annoyed the euro tour officials by constantly kicking them up the backside but it worked in the end.

lj, if you view faldo as superior in every way to seve, then i find that rather sad. he managed to grind his way to what some considered a near-perfect swing for a relatively short while and then it went. a humourless man who developed an automaton's swing vs a charismatic, natural genius who did so, so much more for golf than just win tournaments. (but i still think you're being provocative for the sake of it)

So Faldo did nothing more for golf than just win tournaments then graeme?

You have to remember that faldo gets a major subtracted for the drivel he spouts on cbs.

McLaren wrote:You have to remember that faldo gets a major subtracted for the drivel he spouts on cbs.

as opposed to the drivel that Monty spouts on Sky alongside Harmon?

drive4show wrote:I don't see this as a matter of who won what, more a question of what each of them did to promote the European tour.

I think on that issue, Seve wins by a country mile. He was the Tiger Woods of his day in terms of attracting fans and sponsors to the tour. The tour was very very much a second rate outfit compared to the PGA tour. Thanks to Seve and those that subsequently followed him, it now stands as an equal (some would say above) the PGA tour.

For that reason alone, I'm in favour of the tour rebranding it's logo.

Fully agree D4S. The rebranding isn't about how you define who is the better golfer, or the number of wins they had in their career, it's about what Seve did for the European Tour and its' status. In that respect it would be a fitting tribute to the man.

But would he have been able to do that if the tour were centred around just him?

No.

It was more than just one man... It was the generation of golfers that managed that. Even if he is credited with being the driver behind it.

LondonJonnyO wrote:

McLaren wrote:You have to remember that faldo gets a major subtracted for the drivel he spouts on cbs.

as opposed to the drivel that Monty spouts on Sky alongside Harmon?

I will agree to leave monty on -1 majors if you accept faldo now only has 5.

I think that the point with rebranding the logo with Seve is not just to celebrate his golfing achievements but also to remember what a tragedy it is that such a golfing icon has passed away at such a young age. Obviously the likes of Langer, Faldo, Monty and a whole host of European stars would also be entitled to such an accolade after they have gone but hopefully that will be when they are old men, by which time we can just appreciate what they gave to the game without wondering what they still had to give.

As far as the Seve trophy goes, I'm sure that was renamed something else after it's sponsors so is not really enough of a tribute to one of the great European golfers that still had more to give to European golf. A tournament named after him in Spain would be a nice touch but such is the uncertainty surrounding every European Tour event there would be no guarantees that it would still be played in years to come. As an example, the English Open could have been named after one of our great players but would this really mean anything now they can't even scrape together the funds to hold one?

A new flag would be a fitting tribute and as much as Harry Vardon was a legend, there are less and less people that actually remember him playing so his career is now of less significance. Seve has influenced so many players that are playing right now, from the average sunday hacker to the top tour pro's and that should be recognised by the European Tour.

Further to this, great players like Faldo, Langer and Monty may not have had the confidence and opportunities that they had to achieve without Seve showing the way...

nope, he did wonders for the sales of pringle jumpers too...

graeme wrote:nope, he did wonders for the sales of pringle jumpers too...

Anything else you can think of that Faldo has done for the game?

LondonJonnyO wrote:

graeme wrote:nope, he did wonders for the sales of pringle jumpers too...

Anything else you can think of that Faldo has done for the game?

Entertaining other people's wives/girlfriends?

LondonJonnyO wrote:

graeme wrote:nope, he did wonders for the sales of pringle jumpers too...

Anything else you can think of that Faldo has done for the game?

Female caddies??

I would guess that he did a lot of female caddies. Bit of an understated lothario our Nick.

LondonJonnyO wrote:

graeme wrote:nope, he did wonders for the sales of pringle jumpers too...

Anything else you can think of that Faldo has done for the game?

AHA!!!!!!! i've found it. he gave us the prodigious talent that is nick dougherty via his faldo series. phew, i was stumped for a while there.

Actually that wasn't what I was thinking about... but his faldo series is something more that he did for the game.

To be fair to Sir Nick, his golfing achievements and input into helping younger players is far more deserving of a knighthood than cycling (Hoy) or running (Holmes) around in circles...

He gave Ian Poulter his platform to shine by picking him for the Ryder Cup

Is that a good thing?

LondonJonnyO wrote:I would list his contemporaries as being Faldo, Langer, Lyle, Woosnam.

Basically the group listed as the Big Five in Europe. A group which was all born within 12 months of each other.

As for who I would list as more successful. Faldo. Without any doubt he was the best golfer in that generation.

LondonJonnyO wrote:I don't measure it purely by the number of wins he had.

He was second to Faldo in major wins. Second in number of Ryder Cup points. And to my mind just second best to the man.

If anyone deserves to be up there when they peg it... It's Sir Nick

You're operating on quite a high WUM setting today LJ!

Faldo was excellent and made the most of what he had. Seve was by far the more talented player and I'd say his extra Tour wins far outweighs SNF's extra Major. As Mac points out, they may have been about the same age but their wins were not of exactly the same era.

Seve was by far the more important in terms of promoting the Euro Tour as well. That said, I'd keep the logo as is and have a different memorial to Seve if that's what's decided.

navyblueshorts wrote:You're operating on quite a high WUM setting today LJ!

I'm blaming on the excesses of last night. Binge drinking is not a good idea. Take note children. Do as I say... not as I do! :

Yes Seve has done much more to promote the ET than most, but I see no reason to change the logo whatsoever, yes more ET victories than anyone else but you could argue Faldo played much of his career in the US at the end so he was never gonna amass that sort of record and the fact he pulled his game apart to win majors. But this is about Seve not Faldo.

He had a great career 90+ victories, 5 Major titles, was charismatic but that doesn't mean just because he's passed he deserves to have the logo changed. We have the Seve trophy,already and a more fitting tribute to Seve would be one that benefits the foundation charity he set up than the changing of a logo! Plus doesn't make much sense the ET logo being Seve yet the trophy the Winner gets end of season is the Vardon trophy!

I think it should stay as is, but would opt for naming one of the prestigous European events after him as a lasting memory - possibly one of the matchplay ones might be good!

The likes of Vardon should be respected for what they achieved under the condition they achieved it in.

I think it would be disrespectful to change it

Noshankingtonite wrote:I think it should stay as is, but would opt for naming one of the prestigous European events after him as a lasting memory - possibly one of the matchplay ones might be good! :idea:

I think this post and olparwins point about respecting Vardon are spot on. As I said earlier it would be nice to think seve's name and memory could propel and event to a higher level. Although you would have thought the same about the Byron Nelson but the players have abandoned that now that he is dead.