Wales four regions 'ready to take legal action against WRU'

First topic message reminder :

Wales' regions reportedly could take legal action for the right to play in cross-border tournaments without permission from their governing body.
According to the Guardian newspaper  the regions are to have talks with the Welsh Rugby Union (WRU) next week.
The regions want to play against English clubs, rather than be forced by the WRU to compete in the Heineken Cup.
They are also upset the WRU reportedly tried to persuade Wales players not to sign new deals with the regions.
They claim that happened during the autumn internationals with Sam Warburton, Alun Wyn Jones and Leigh Halfpenny, who are all coming out of regional contracts, among those believed to have been spoken to.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/25255119

Feckless Rogue wrote:Lads, I think big Phil Vickery has a few more years left in him yet. I'd be very surprised if he had somehow managed to retire without any of us noticing.

Yeah, but the PRL ruined it for him as he won't have European competition now to end his career on a high.

Standulstermen wrote:Thunor 

Good post and thanks for providing context with the IRFU. The difference being I suppose the IRFU are funding themselves when they are funding the provinces whereas the WRU are funding organisations that have independent owners.

That being said I was under the impression that the WRU have a signifcant amount of money but that it is earmarked for paying off the millenium early. (I could be wrong). Would that money not be better spent funding the regions. If no increase in 9 years is true then it's wrong. What I would say is that whoever is running the regions needs to be accountable too. I watched the Glasgow v Ospreys game and the atmosphere seemed horrific. It's a top of the table clash. They need to take ownership and aim to get people out of their houses and to the games.

I absolutely agree.

maestegmafia wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:The PRL were ready to take legal action against the erc/unions. Load of talk. Is it true the WRU subsidises the regions to the tune of 4M a year each?

Yep...!

Oh no it isn't.
Is it Panto season already?

Standulstermen wrote:How much is a ticket to an ospreys game? I'm looking at that nearly empty stadium and wondering that to myself. Is price the issue? Is it time slots? 7pm is tight on a Friday night and needs looked at (I think sky may well push this) 

I would say no.

Griff wrote:It would be interesting to see what the WRU did re taking over the regions. What price would the owners sell for? If they refused to sell then would the WRU have to form 3 or 4 brand new sides. Who would the fans be? Why didn't they do this in the first place? And would the WRU be granted permission to play in existing stadia or would they have to build their own?! This has the potential to get very messy!

One thing we have learned this year is the business side of Rugby continues to get more and more bizarre.  No one is innocent.

With that in mind, I would agree it could be possible the WRU sells out the Regions.  But they would have to be careful.  The Regions were their creation.  If the WRU do them up the bum, no one will ever trust doing any business with the WRU ever again.  And then Rugby in Wales, and by extension everyone, suffers (more).

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:How much is a ticket to an ospreys game? I'm looking at that nearly empty stadium and wondering that to myself. Is price the issue? Is it time slots? 7pm is tight on a Friday night and needs looked at (I think sky may well push this) 

I would say no.

Time then? Is there just not the following for rugby? Full houses for the Wales games would suggest there is

Standulstermen wrote:
If I'm the WRU I need to know my £1.5m odd is being spent right before I sink any more money into a region.

Fixed.
I like it very much that you show interest and have a bash at answering this if you may...were the WRU concerned when Cardiff were flushing hundreds of thousands of pounds down the khazi, while at Cardiff City's stadium?

This must be what the Cold War was like. We're on the verge of mutually assued destruction now.

Standulstermen wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:How much is a ticket to an ospreys game? I'm looking at that nearly empty stadium and wondering that to myself. Is price the issue? Is it time slots? 7pm is tight on a Friday night and needs looked at (I think sky may well push this) 

I would say no.

Time then? Is there just not the following for rugby? Full houses for the Wales games would suggest there is

This has been debated for the last decade and nobody has yet provided a concise theory. To over-simplify;

City/town based superclubs don't have enough local population to make a pro sports team financially viable. Especially when the semi-pro version of the same team (Cardiff, Llanelli, Swansea, Newport) is also playing the same sport every week. Some folk will claim that their particular club was 'always the region of the west/south/east' etc. but that is just lies.

The two options that might, just, have worked were;

i. give Blues/Dragons/Scarlets/Ospreys fully pro status and scrap Cardiff RFC/Newport RFC/Llanelli and Swansea/Neath
ii. create proper regions.

But, a decade ago the union didn't have the guts, intellect or funds.

They now have the funds.

The crazy thing is that the WRU are in profit. Why on earth isn't that money being invested back into the game?

The regions need to surrender some autonomy to the WRU in exchange for funding to keep internationals and offset the cost of their absence and the increased cover needed in international windows.

Yet, bizarrely, both sides are opposed to this common sense solution.

Standulstermen wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:How much is a ticket to an ospreys game? I'm looking at that nearly empty stadium and wondering that to myself. Is price the issue? Is it time slots? 7pm is tight on a Friday night and needs looked at (I think sky may well push this) 

I would say no.

Time then? Is there just not the following for rugby? Full houses for the Wales games would suggest there is

Dunno. Best ask the people in and around Swansea I guess.

Casartelli wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:How much is a ticket to an ospreys game? I'm looking at that nearly empty stadium and wondering that to myself. Is price the issue? Is it time slots? 7pm is tight on a Friday night and needs looked at (I think sky may well push this) 

I would say no.

Time then? Is there just not the following for rugby? Full houses for the Wales games would suggest there is

This has been debated for the last decade and nobody has yet provided a concise theory.  

The largest ever attendance i've seen and been part of at the Arms Park was 2 or 3 years before regionalism. Nothing has ever even come close since.

Kingsley Jones, Dragons coach, was on scrum v the other night talking about central contracts. He was quite sure of himself and very firm in his belief that the WRU could not afford to centrally contract the Welsh squad. He said that, due to the amounts currently being thrown at players from France, that to beat those offers to encourage a player to take a central contract, we're looking at around the £500k mark per year for each player. Now, obviously they all won't be that much. But how many players could the WRU afford to contract on high wages, bearing in mind they currently 'subsidise' the regions about £1.5m a year each. This £6m won't go far, central contract wise. Or would they use the regions' TV monies to fund the central contracts? I've got no real issue with this in general, but I wonder where the rest of the squad's wages would come from then?

Merchandise, beer sales and tickets unfortunately in Welsh regional/club rugby will not cover the circa 30 players left on the books without central contracts. People say that we should do more to get the gates to increase but they've never been high unfortunately. People talk about club rugby as if it was the pinnacle in Wales, as if we couldn't cater for all of the fans. But if you look at the attendances pre regional rugby you'll see that they were about the same as now. Llanelli were getting similar to the Scarlets, Newport a thousand or so more than the Dragons, etc. Perhaps we've reached crowd peak already. Spending all of the available money to keep 32 stars may end up bankrupting the whole game in Wales, and sending the pro game out of business.

Griff wrote:Kingsley Jones, Dragons coach, was on scrum v the other night talking about central contracts. He was quite sure of himself and very firm in his belief that the WRU could not afford to centrally contract the Welsh squad. He said that, due to the amounts currently being thrown at players from France, that to beat those offers to encourage a player to take a central contract, we're looking at around the £500k mark per year for each player. Now, obviously they all won't be that much. But how many players could the WRU afford to contract on high wages, bearing in mind they currently 'subsidise' the regions about £1.5m a year each. This £6m won't go far, central contract wise. Or would they use the regions' TV monies to fund the central contracts? I've got no real issue with this in general, but I wonder where the rest of the squad's wages would come from then?

Merchandise, beer sales and tickets unfortunately in Welsh regional/club rugby will not cover the circa 30 players left on the books without central contracts. People say that we should do more to get the gates to increase but they've never been high unfortunately. People talk about club rugby as if it was the pinnacle in Wales, as if we couldn't cater for all of the fans. But if you look at the attendances pre regional rugby you'll see that they were about the same as now. Llanelli were getting similar to the Scarlets, Newport a thousand or so more than the Dragons, etc. Perhaps we've reached crowd peak already. Spending all of the available money to keep 32 stars may end up bankrupting the whole game in Wales, and sending the pro game out of business.

Great name that. Unique. Has substance, history and is well marketable, so why drop it for the sake of pretend regionalism?

.

You can't even spell your own players' names right Dave. 'Patchwell'?!  

Griff wrote:You can't even spell your own players' names right Dave. 'Patchwell'?!  

Blame Shankling.

 

Griff wrote: 

I'm here all week.
Here's another; Lyn Jones trying his best not to smirk on ScrumV while saying CCS was the place to be to attract top players to Cardiff.

I'm not convinced you have to match the offer of French or English teams in order to keep top players. There are other benefit like controlled gametime (thus longer career). 

I suppose it does depend on the individual concerned but if you take Sexton as Ireland's only real example his contract negotiations were completely ballsed up and the IRFU wouldn't have had to match (or indeed go near) the 700k odd he is getting to retain his services. 

Maybe the WRU creating two/three regions is the way to go then if the numbers to follow 4 teams aren't great or sustainable. If that's not the case and there is the support (my own gut says there is) then the regions and the WRU need to outline a plan to appeal to that support. 

I just want strong team in Wales (in whatever shape they come in) because it adds to the Rabo

I'm with you 100% standulstermen. It's frustrating for ALL pro12 nations as it affects us all.

I disagree that we don't have to beat the France offers. We don't have much else to offer! We can't offer lifestyle, unless they're really into mountain walking! We don't have a tax break thing in place like Ireland (is that just the Republic?). Not sure how quick we could set one up or if we'd be allowed? I think we'd be the first in the UK to do so, so that's probably a no go. Not sure the game management is that appealing as they're leaving now already, knowing full well that they're going to be flogged. Unfortunately, apart from money I can't see what else there is!

A number who have left have stated that it's a short career and that they need to think about their families, so money would seem to be the biggest driving force. The only possible tactic would be non-selection for the national side if they move away which would hamper them financially as they wouldn't get the match bonuses and sponsorships deals as they would as an international player. Might work.

I now what you mean about the support seeming to be there. They turn up to the MS for internationals. However, like I said the crowds have never been good even in the halcyon days of our welsh league. I can't see us increasing attendances for something people are less interested in (I,e. Get more fans for made up teams than the clubs used to get (and that's what fans liked!)).

I just don't know!

The tax break has recently changed in Ireland (it was never in ulster a it's uk) so we will see if that effects us. It's their home, playing for the teams they have always supported. I do think you would keep guys (maybe not all as it does depend on amounts). Sexton for instance I think hinted that he would have stayed had he got offered something in line with the top Irish players (I'm guessing here and others may know better) which I think was in and around 400/500k. That's a 200k difference. 

Of course that's a top end example. Would Wales have to offer Ken Owens the same kind of contract as Halfpenny? Of course not. I'm not sure what the answer is as I don't know enough but I refuse to believe the problems are insurmountable in Wales.


Just on a note about the Pro 12 I do hope the Ospreys and Glasgow improve their form now because at present I am worried about the provinces running away with it. That's in nobodys interest long term

Standulstermen wrote:The tax break has recently changed in Ireland (it was never in ulster a it's uk) so we will see if that effects us. It's their home, playing for the teams they have always supported. I do think you would keep guys (maybe not all as it does depend on amounts). Sexton for instance I think hinted that he would have stayed had he got offered something in line with the top Irish players (I'm guessing here and others may know better) which I think was in and around 400/500k. That's a 200k difference. 

Of course that's a top end example. Would Wales have to offer Ken Owens the same kind of contract as Halfpenny? Of course not. I'm not sure what the answer is as I don't know enough but I refuse to believe the problems are insurmountable in Wales.


Just on a note about the Pro 12 I do hope the Ospreys and Glasgow improve their form now because at present I am worried about the provinces running away with it. That's in nobodys interest long term

This tax break thing for already very well payed sports stars; did the ordinary people of Ireland vote for it?

Haven't a clue about it or what exactly it entails although I think now it's changed so stars can go abroad at the end of their career and still be entitled to it. It used to be you had to retire. Others will know more

So, it is now proven that the people leading, managing, and governing our sport in every nation can screw up a wet dream.
(see me for medical consult if you do not know what this means)

Cardiff Dave wrote:
This tax break thing for already very well payed sports stars; did the ordinary people of Ireland vote for it?

Not all sports people would be well paid - football players in the League of Ireland would be semi-pro. and poorly paid. Basically what happens is that they can get 40% of tax back that they paid for their 10 best years when they retire (just earnings from playing rugby, not endorsements etc).

The way the Gov have looked at it is that by staying they are contributing to the economy by creating jobs etc.

It wasn't voted on by the ordinary people in Ireland, but I don't know anyone who has a problem with it. Its like how our corporate tax rate is 12.5% and this attracts big business to Ireland which creates jobs.

SecretFly wrote:

quinsforever wrote:

it is a policy to keep the regions weak in an attempt to strengthen the WRU's hold on club rugby at all levels, and implement central contracts and be viewed as sailing to the rescue of the incompetent regions.

You of course have documentary proof for what you say Quins...... You do accuse quite a few folks of lying and making things up and not having proof. So look forward to all the lovely top-secret WRU documents streaming my way in your next few posts.  

my opinion. i am not alone however. go check out the scarlets or ospreys clubs forums if you dont believe me. i am freakin boutros boutros gali in comparison to the tone on those forums

SecretFly wrote:I guess we could open a 'transfer' market - not just for players - but for teams?
A pre and mid season transfer window between Leagues?  "Toulon, are you absolutely sure you want to stick with Top14 for the full season?  We'd like you to join the Pro12 for the remainder of our season so that we can pick up more pblicity; and we're willing to pay a transfer fee to the LNR."

Don't knock it!!!!!!!!!!!!!  It's European freedom of movement for labour, open market economics and all that jazz

not sure the calendar could accomodate 38 teams in the top14... 

Can we please stop this nonsense talk about Big Phil Vickery retiring. I don't think it'll ever happen.

quinsforever wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

quinsforever wrote:

it is a policy to keep the regions weak in an attempt to strengthen the WRU's hold on club rugby at all levels, and implement central contracts and be viewed as sailing to the rescue of the incompetent regions.

You of course have documentary proof for what you say Quins...... You do accuse quite a few folks of lying and making things up and not having proof. So look forward to all the lovely top-secret WRU documents streaming my way in your next few posts.  

my opinion. i am not alone however. go check out the scarlets or ospreys clubs forums if you dont believe me. i am freakin boutros boutros gali in comparison to the tone on those forums

To be fair, Dr Gwyn Jones wrote a similar article about how it seems the WRU are planning that.

Sin é wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:
This tax break thing for already very well payed sports stars; did the ordinary people of Ireland vote for it?

Not all sports people would be well paid - football players in the League of Ireland would be semi-pro. and poorly paid. Basically what happens is that they can get 40% of tax back that they paid for their 10 best years when they retire (just earnings from playing rugby, not endorsements etc).

The way the Gov have looked at it is that by staying they are contributing to the economy by creating jobs etc.

It wasn't voted on by the ordinary people in Ireland, but I don't know anyone who has a problem with it. Its like how our corporate tax rate is 12.5% and this attracts big business to Ireland which creates jobs.

What about really rubbish Irish rugby players and crappy Irish painters? How many jobs did they create Ted?

Standulstermen wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:How much is a ticket to an ospreys game? I'm looking at that nearly empty stadium and wondering that to myself. Is price the issue? Is it time slots? 7pm is tight on a Friday night and needs looked at (I think sky may well push this) 

I would say no.

Time then? Is there just not the following for rugby? Full houses for the Wales games would suggest there is

Not full houses really for the AIs were there? Thought there were always empty seats. To be fair though, you'd get any buzzard interested in an international, purely for a day on the lash in Cardiff. That's the difference. You can't really get that excited for a Friday evening or Sunday afternoon game that the Rabo tends to throw up a lot.

Risca Rev wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:How much is a ticket to an ospreys game? I'm looking at that nearly empty stadium and wondering that to myself. Is price the issue? Is it time slots? 7pm is tight on a Friday night and needs looked at (I think sky may well push this) 

I would say no.

Time then? Is there just not the following for rugby? Full houses for the Wales games would suggest there is

Not full houses really for the AIs were there? Thought there were always empty seats. To be fair though, you'd get any buzzard interested in an international, purely for a day on the lash in Cardiff. That's the difference. You can't really get that excited for a Friday evening or Sunday afternoon game that the Rabo tends to throw up a lot.

You could if it was simply Cardiff v Newport like it used to be. Anyone remember Percy?

Newport won, sorry Dregs won in the other comp....
http://www.espn.co.uk/amlin-challenge-cup-2013-14/rugby/match/192395.html

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:
This tax break thing for already very well payed sports stars; did the ordinary people of Ireland vote for it?

Not all sports people would be well paid - football players in the League of Ireland would be semi-pro. and poorly paid. Basically what happens is that they can get 40% of tax back that they paid for their 10 best years when they retire (just earnings from playing rugby, not endorsements etc).

The way the Gov have looked at it is that by staying they are contributing to the economy by creating jobs etc.

It wasn't voted on by the ordinary people in Ireland, but I don't know anyone who has a problem with it. Its like how our corporate tax rate is 12.5% and this attracts big business to Ireland which creates jobs.

What about really rubbish Irish rugby players and crappy Irish painters? How many jobs did they create Ted?

Well Dai (look you). It allows the Irish provinces to have a base of professional players of varying degrees of ability and also developmental contracts to bring players through. In the meantime the mix of provincial and centrally contracted players help the game to develop in a sustainable way also allowing the provinces the ability to have some independent growth...simples

ME-109 wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:
This tax break thing for already very well payed sports stars; did the ordinary people of Ireland vote for it?

Not all sports people would be well paid - football players in the League of Ireland would be semi-pro. and poorly paid. Basically what happens is that they can get 40% of tax back that they paid for their 10 best years when they retire (just earnings from playing rugby, not endorsements etc).

The way the Gov have looked at it is that by staying they are contributing to the economy by creating jobs etc.

It wasn't voted on by the ordinary people in Ireland, but I don't know anyone who has a problem with it. Its like how our corporate tax rate is 12.5% and this attracts big business to Ireland which creates jobs.

What about really rubbish Irish rugby players and crappy Irish painters? How many jobs did they create Ted?

Well Dai (look you). It allows the Irish provinces to have a base of professional players of varying degrees of ability and also developmental contracts to bring players through. In the meantime the mix of provincial and centrally contracted players help the game to develop in a sustainable way also allowing the provinces the ability to have some independent growth...simples

Ordinary Irish folk?

Reading this just makes me hate my life. Working all weekend and next weekend too. I hate my life.

Notch wrote:The crazy thing is that the WRU are in profit. Why on earth isn't that money being invested back into the game?

The regions need to surrender some autonomy to the WRU in exchange for funding to keep internationals and offset the cost of their absence and the increased cover needed in international windows.

Yet, bizarrely, both sides are opposed to this common sense solution.

The WRU profits are invested in to the game. The whole game in Wales not just the regions. The regions want to be independent franchises. Unless that changes then i cant see any further funding from the WRU.

The regions have had ten years to figure out how to run a successful business in their industry, they still can't do it.

Risca Rev wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:How much is a ticket to an ospreys game? I'm looking at that nearly empty stadium and wondering that to myself. Is price the issue? Is it time slots? 7pm is tight on a Friday night and needs looked at (I think sky may well push this) 

I would say no.

Time then? Is there just not the following for rugby? Full houses for the Wales games would suggest there is

Not full houses really for the AIs were there? Thought there were always empty seats. To be fair though, you'd get any buzzard interested in an international, purely for a day on the lash in Cardiff. That's the difference. You can't really get that excited for a Friday evening or Sunday afternoon game that the Rabo tends to throw up a lot.

Apathy. Ppl would rather spend money in the pub than go to the liberty. Of courses they are all critics, slag the region off, have a go a players but will quite gladly watch a on telly and cheer them on for Wales. All from the comfort of the living room.

It is misleading to say that the WRU give the regions £16m if £9m comes from TV & sponsership, money that they would generate, also the £6m for extended access as they are buying that extra access

maestegmafia wrote:

Notch wrote:The crazy thing is that the WRU are in profit. Why on earth isn't that money being invested back into the game?

The regions need to surrender some autonomy to the WRU in exchange for funding to keep internationals and offset the cost of their absence and the increased cover needed in international windows.

Yet, bizarrely, both sides are opposed to this common sense solution.

The WRU profits are invested in to the game. The whole game in Wales not just the regions. The regions want to be independent franchises. Unless that changes then i cant see any further funding from the WRU.

The regions have had ten years to figure out how to run a successful business in their industry, they still can't do it.

The problem is when they decide what they need to do is move to England, jeopardizing rugby right across Europe.

Thats why entirely privately run teams are such a bad idea. They lack responsibility for the health of the wider game, theTy are just interested in the health of their own business. he WRU needs to bail the regions out for an increased say in the running of the regions.

Notch wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Notch wrote:The crazy thing is that the WRU are in profit. Why on earth isn't that money being invested back into the game?

The regions need to surrender some autonomy to the WRU in exchange for funding to keep internationals and offset the cost of their absence and the increased cover needed in international windows.

Yet, bizarrely, both sides are opposed to this common sense solution.

The WRU profits are invested in to the game. The whole game in Wales not just the regions. The regions want to be independent franchises. Unless that changes then i cant see any further funding from the WRU.

The regions have had ten years to figure out how to run a successful business in their industry, they still can't do it.

The problem is when they decide what they need to do is move to England, jeopardizing rugby right across Europe.

Thats why entirely privately run teams are such a bad idea. They lack responsibility for the health of the wider game, theTy are just interested in the health of their own business. he WRU needs to bail the regions out for an increased say in the running of the regions.

I think England have enough problems without getting involved with the Welsh Regions.  Just think how twisted and Byzantine the politics will become if the Regions join.  Bad for English clubs, bad for Welsh Rugby.

Notch, I don't think you can make such a broad generalisation.  I apologise in advance, and I know it is not a great example, but I feel the communist era style of central planning of, well, everything, is not necessarily what Rugby needs, nor possibly the answer here.  The problem is governance, plain and simple.   There should be standard issue business relationships.

Rugby has supposedly been professional for less than 20 years.  The game is still developing and many of the agreements reached when the game went professional are still in force.  It is unrealistic to expect those rules to still work when the game has changed seismically.  New rules and adjustments to the relationships between clubs and unions are needed.  The problem is we still have many amateur era people in charge.  They resist change or outright oppose change, need to leave the scene asap for the game to progress.  In all countries.

The WRU and RRW are meeting up on Wednesday apparently.
What the outcome will be is anyone's guess.

Notch wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Notch wrote:The crazy thing is that the WRU are in profit. Why on earth isn't that money being invested back into the game?

The regions need to surrender some autonomy to the WRU in exchange for funding to keep internationals and offset the cost of their absence and the increased cover needed in international windows.

Yet, bizarrely, both sides are opposed to this common sense solution.

The WRU profits are invested in to the game. The whole game in Wales not just the regions. The regions want to be independent franchises. Unless that changes then i cant see any further funding from the WRU.

The regions have had ten years to figure out how to run a successful business in their industry, they still can't do it.

The problem is when they decide what they need to do is move to England, jeopardizing rugby right across Europe.

Thats why entirely privately run teams are such a bad idea. They lack responsibility for the health of the wider game, theTy are just interested in the health of their own business. he WRU needs to bail the regions out for an increased say in the running of the regions.

it's no coincidence that all the money in the game of club rugby is in the leagues that have professional, privately run clubs.

the problem is amateur era mentalities at the top of a game which is about eyeballs and bums on seats now.

none of the people in the unions have responsibility for the wider game either. they have responsibility for delivering results within their own union. end of. only the IRB has a global mandate.

maestegmafia wrote:

Notch wrote:The crazy thing is that the WRU are in profit. Why on earth isn't that money being invested back into the game?

The regions need to surrender some autonomy to the WRU in exchange for funding to keep internationals and offset the cost of their absence and the increased cover needed in international windows.

Yet, bizarrely, both sides are opposed to this common sense solution.

The WRU profits are invested in to the game. The whole game in Wales not just the regions. The regions want to be independent franchises. Unless that changes then i cant see any further funding from the WRU.

The regions have had ten years to figure out how to run a successful business in their industry, they still can't do it.

Whatever you say mm, but the simple fact is, regionalism was/is a total sham and many never bought into the WRU invention.

quinsforever wrote:

Notch wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Notch wrote:The crazy thing is that the WRU are in profit. Why on earth isn't that money being invested back into the game?

The regions need to surrender some autonomy to the WRU in exchange for funding to keep internationals and offset the cost of their absence and the increased cover needed in international windows.

Yet, bizarrely, both sides are opposed to this common sense solution.

The WRU profits are invested in to the game. The whole game in Wales not just the regions. The regions want to be independent franchises. Unless that changes then i cant see any further funding from the WRU.

The regions have had ten years to figure out how to run a successful business in their industry, they still can't do it.

The problem is when they decide what they need to do is move to England, jeopardizing rugby right across Europe.

Thats why entirely privately run teams are such a bad idea. They lack responsibility for the health of the wider game, theTy are just interested in the health of their own business. he WRU needs to bail the regions out for an increased say in the running of the regions.

it's no coincidence that all the money in the game of club rugby is in the leagues that have professional, privately run clubs.

the problem is amateur era mentalities at the top of a game which is about eyeballs and bums on seats now.

none of the people in the unions have responsibility for the wider game either. they have responsibility for delivering results within their own union. end of. only the IRB has a global mandate.

But thats also the leagues that run huge losses. Clubs losing millions a year. Very businesslike

TJ wrote:

quinsforever wrote:

Notch wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Notch wrote:The crazy thing is that the WRU are in profit. Why on earth isn't that money being invested back into the game?

The regions need to surrender some autonomy to the WRU in exchange for funding to keep internationals and offset the cost of their absence and the increased cover needed in international windows.

Yet, bizarrely, both sides are opposed to this common sense solution.

The WRU profits are invested in to the game. The whole game in Wales not just the regions. The regions want to be independent franchises. Unless that changes then i cant see any further funding from the WRU.

The regions have had ten years to figure out how to run a successful business in their industry, they still can't do it.

The problem is when they decide what they need to do is move to England, jeopardizing rugby right across Europe.

Thats why entirely privately run teams are such a bad idea. They lack responsibility for the health of the wider game, theTy are just interested in the health of their own business. he WRU needs to bail the regions out for an increased say in the running of the regions.

it's no coincidence that all the money in the game of club rugby is in the leagues that have professional, privately run clubs.

the problem is amateur era mentalities at the top of a game which is about eyeballs and bums on seats now.

none of the people in the unions have responsibility for the wider game either. they have responsibility for delivering results within their own union. end of. only the IRB has a global mandate.

But thats also the leagues that run huge losses.  Clubs losing millions a year.  Very businesslike

?? Cardiff aren't losing millions.

It was in response to quins saying

it's no coincidence that all the money in the game of club rugby is in the leagues that have professional, privately run clubs.

which is actually a long way from the truth. The Ap clubs and French clubs run huge losess - deficits - millions a year in many cases

The Rabo is by and large on a much firmer financial foundation not requiring sugar daddies to burn money to be competative

TJ wrote:It was in response to quins saying

it's no coincidence that all the money in the game of club rugby is in the leagues that have professional, privately run clubs.

which is actually a long way from the truth.  The Ap clubs and French clubs run huge losess - deficits - millions a year in  many cases

The Rabo is by and large on a much firmer financial foundation not requiring sugar daddies to burn money to be competative

The Rabo sugar daddies are the unions. The only difference is the English and French sugar daddies put up their own money.

HammerofThunor wrote:

TJ wrote:It was in response to quins saying

it's no coincidence that all the money in the game of club rugby is in the leagues that have professional, privately run clubs.

which is actually a long way from the truth.  The Ap clubs and French clubs run huge losess - deficits - millions a year in  many cases

The Rabo is by and large on a much firmer financial foundation not requiring sugar daddies to burn money to be competative

The Rabo sugar daddies are the unions. The only difference is the English and French sugar daddies put up their own money.

So you think Martin Hazell & Tony Brown don't put their own money into the Dragons? Please don't comment on things you patently know nothing about -  thank you