Biggest upset ever in the history of the HC ?

Connachts amazing victory at Toulouse this weekend. I'm struggling to think of anything that comes remotely close. Hardly a win all season capitulate to Edinburgh last weekend and now this. Amazing - well done you guys from the West -Overshadows all other excellent Irish results this weekend IMO

I remember Toulouse thrashing a Welsh side way back in the HEC early days but the Welsh side beat them in the return fixture.

It would be right up there anyway. I know Italian sides beat French opposition before but I'm not sure if any of the victories were in France. It's not just the victory but the manner in which Connacht did it. They were the better side and Toulouse just ran out of ideas at the end. The French team couldn't even get past the halfway line at the end and also Connacht had a perfect try disallowed from the TMO.

profitius wrote:I remember Toulouse thrashing a Welsh side way back in the HEC early days but the Welsh side beat them in  the return fixture.

Scarlets? Think they made the semi that year (2007?)

profitius wrote:I remember Toulouse thrashing a Welsh side way back in the HEC early days but the Welsh side beat them in  the return fixture.

Ebbw Vale. Pretty sure it couldn't have been a strong Toulouse team for the defeat to Ebbw though.

Risca Rev wrote:

profitius wrote:I remember Toulouse thrashing a Welsh side way back in the HEC early days but the Welsh side beat them in  the return fixture.

Ebbw Vale. Pretty sure it couldn't have been a strong Toulouse team for the defeat to Ebbw though.

That was in Wales too great upset but Connacht's away win takes the cake.

The name Toulouse carries a lot of weight. But is it just me or have they been distinctly off the pace in this competition since they won it in 2010. It seems they lose in a "huge upset" quite frequently now.

That said, I did not see this coming. Look where Connacht are in the league. I haven't actually watched them once in the Pro12 this year but they must be playing pretty badly, so this is a turn up for the books.

profitius wrote:I remember Toulouse thrashing a Welsh side way back in the HEC early days but the Welsh side beat them in  the return fixture.

It was my beloved Ebbw, they put 100+ points on us out in France then we beat them at ECP in return fixture.

Risca Rev wrote:

profitius wrote:I remember Toulouse thrashing a Welsh side way back in the HEC early days but the Welsh side beat them in  the return fixture.

Ebbw Vale. Pretty sure it couldn't have been a strong Toulouse team for the defeat to Ebbw though.

What you trying to say Rev  

Risca Rev wrote:

profitius wrote:I remember Toulouse thrashing a Welsh side way back in the HEC early days but the Welsh side beat them in  the return fixture.

Ebbw Vale. Pretty sure it couldn't have been a strong Toulouse team for the defeat to Ebbw though.

Wasnt a weak one though...


Stade Toulousain : Ougier (cap) ; Garbajosa, Bondouy, Paillat, Marfaing ; (o) Deylaud, (m) Tilloles ;
Ma. Lièvremont, Dispagne, Lacroix ; Pelous, Spanghero; Tournaire, Mafutuna, Vanchiri.
Sont entrés en jeu : Ntamack, Cazalbou, Bru, Miorin, Labit, Jordana.

1 red card and 3 yellows took its toll. The referee was more than dodgy though and the whole game was a mascarade.

Connacht won fair and square so it has much more relevance. Calling that the mother of all upsets is a bit insulting to them. They had a couple of scalps at home and were due a good performance away against a team that tend to struggle vs the irish ones. Next weekend is gonna be interesting, they surely will aim to back it up.

Munster beating them down there in 2000 (first Irish team to win on French soil) was regarded as the start of the rise of Munster. Previous meeting and Mick Galwey (captain) was saying to the team to try and keep it below 50!

It was a very young Munster team as well with a bit of experience in it (like ROG & Strings). Strings still had hair then.

Feckless Rogue wrote:The name Toulouse carries a lot of weight. But is it just me or have they been distinctly off the pace in this competition since they won it in 2010. It seems they lose in a "huge upset" quite frequently now.

That said, I did not see this coming. Look where Connacht are in the league. I haven't actually watched them once in the Pro12 this year but they must be playing pretty badly, so this is a turn up for the books.

Lam alludes to it, and keeps alluding to it. And it could come across as 'excuses. excuses', but he says he feels they are so close to being a side that should be much higher than bottom of Pro12 - and that they play that way too.  

Now as I say, you might be inclined to quietly tell Lam not to embarrass himself by using too many hopeless excuses but I tend to think he's quite right.  I don't think it's that Connacht play badly - something just isn't clicking in the set-up.  I have a feeling it's something small that is just unbalancing them and keeping them from taking fire.  Connacht need some spark - don't know what it is (have my own ideas though). But Lam is certainly looking for it because the lowly Pro12 position is baffling him too.

Ebbw Vale vs Toulouse and Aironi vs Biarritz are the ones that spring to mind.

But Biarritz are no Toulouse and Toulouse at home is a different proposition to one the road.

I think the Connacht game suffers a little because it kinda happened in a blur as the Irish were patting themselves on the back about the other three games.

For me, the game passed in a kind of "is the rest of Europe even looking at this?" blur.

It was surreal how - well, easy it looked! No they didn't float home but there is no way they got through on a bundle of luck either. It has to be up there with the biggest upsets certainly.  Connacht, only in the HEC by virtue of Leinster exploits again - bottom of the Pro12, one game won in the season.  Against Toulouse, who need no introduction - at home.

Glasgow's win in Toulouse has to be taken in consideration too, but i don't think The Warriors were bottom of the Celtic League back then.

VinceWLB wrote:Glasgow's win in Toulouse has to be taken in consideration too, but i don't think The Warriors were bottom of the Celtic League back then.

That was 2007? We were probably mid table then.
Interestingly enough Dan Parks was standoff that day as well.

Can Racing keep the spending up if they aren't getting the crowds/results.?

RACING METRO’S DIRE performance in Saturday’s 32-8 European Cup thrashing by Harlequins prompted the directors to announce, today, they had switched the mouthwatering Top 14 clash with European champions Toulon away from Stade de France to its own more modest stadium.
The club released a statement in which it lambasted the squad — one of the costliest assembled in the history of club rugby — as not being worthy of appearing at the national stadium. Jonathan Sexton joined the Parisian club during the summer, along with Dan Lydiate and Jamie Roberts. Mike Phillips signed on with the club last week.
“In light of the result against Harlequins on Saturday this has forced us to accept we are not a part of the great teams of the moment,” the statement read. “The Stade de France is reserved for such teams and we do not belong there.
Thus Racing-Metro has decided to cancel our match with Toulon which was due to be played there on December 29 and play it instead at Colombes, our historic ground, where we hope to rediscover our form.”
Aside from their public disapproval of the performance the club was also having great difficulty in selling tickets for the 80,000 capacity stadium despite a massive advertising campaign.
Their first match played at the Stade de France, the Parisian derby with Stade Francais, attracted only 32,000 spectators.

http://thescore.thejournal.ie/racing-metro-harlequins-jonny-seton-1212572-Dec2013/

GLove39 wrote:

VinceWLB wrote:Glasgow's win in Toulouse has to be taken in consideration too, but i don't think The Warriors were bottom of the Celtic League back then.

That was 2007? We were probably mid table then.
Interestingly enough Dan Parks was standoff that day as well.

2008/2009 that was, amazing that Dan Parks has two wins in Toulouse with two different teams, not many players can claim that i guess.

Edit: just checked and Glasgow finished the season 7 out of 10 which isn't exactly great!

toulouse will still feel they are in control of the group, and tbh they were probably too complacent given that the group is toulouse, saracens, connacht, zebre and assumed they just had to show up to get through to the next stage.

the biggest upset ever in the history of HC would be if they win the double header. once could be a fluke. twice, notsomuch.

quinsforever wrote:toulouse will still feel they are in control of the group, and tbh they were probably too complacent given that the group is toulouse, saracens, connacht, zebre and assumed they just had to show up to get through to the next stage.

I could only accept that if Toulouse were the better side in the 2nd half. But they weren't. They were outplayed in both halves. I didn't see much evidence of Toulouse being complacent. Connacht were simply brilliant at times. Their defensive organisation, attacking and defending linespeed, recycling of the ball, competing at rucks etc. lasted for 80 minutes. Toulouse were going backwards and had run out of ideas at the 78 min mark. It wasn't just an astonishing result, it was an astonishing performance. But you're right in that Toulouse, having Sarries at home, are still in control of the group...although that could change next week if Connacht repeat what we saw today.

I think thats one of the best defensive displays I've seen. To keep that line speed for 80 minutes is an amazing achievement.

Brennus wrote:

quinsforever wrote:toulouse will still feel they are in control of the group, and tbh they were probably too complacent given that the group is toulouse, saracens, connacht, zebre and assumed they just had to show up to get through to the next stage.

I could only accept that if Toulouse were the better side in the 2nd half. But they weren't. They were outplayed in both halves. I didn't see much evidence of Toulouse being complacent. Connacht were simply brilliant at times. Their defensive organisation, attacking and defending linespeed, recycling of the ball, competing at rucks etc. lasted for 80 minutes. Toulouse were going backwards and had run out of ideas at the 78 min mark. It wasn't just an astonishing result, it was an astonishing performance. But you're right in that Toulouse, having Sarries at home, are still in control of the group...although that could change next week if Connacht repeat what we saw today.

This.

Now I want to see the belief in Lam's systems become more consistent. Few club teams could have lived with us today, and we ran consistently in the second half. Also Marmion, he's the heartbeat of the team, keeps the tempo right where its needed. A Murray/Marmion Irish setup would do quite nicely if Joe was watching

Also, I think the rest of the irish public will now start to realise henshaw's ability. Full back battle between Kearney, Henshaw and Payne is mouth watering (I don't think Payne should be moved to 13)...

Wolfball any word on Shane Layden? A couple of years ago for the under 20s i thought he looked like one of the best in the squad. Think he missed a good bit through injury but havent seen or heard from him since.

Layden is back playing with the Eagles so expect to see him feature the Rabo soon. He's had terrible luck with injuries so far.

Healy looks a good player.
Was screaming for Henshaw to pass to Carr who would have been in.


None the less. Great win.
Now to do the double at the Sportsground.

Well the double is on because although there will be a backlash from Toulouse they won't be looking forward to going to Galway, Connacht are like madmen down there!

The atmosphere will be electric next week!

I just hope Lam is a very smart coach and that he realised Noves just didn't do any homework on Connacht and felt his side would win without too much pre-planning. Yes, not showing much respect but there you go. Toulouse weren't ready for a Connacht playing like that.
But Noves will now give a very close eye to Connacht patterns and Lam will have to try to think like Noves now. He has to think about where now the weaknesses are that Noves will try to exploit.

I don't think it will be enough to just try and do the same game twice - or at least the same game twice will have to have even more attention to detail now and even greater levels of calmness and concentration at pace shown by Connacht at the weekend.

I just feel they'll have to be careful with that sensational line-speed defensive work and not get too carried away patting themselves on the back about it.  It needs a lot of concentration for it to work well and it could be exposed by a team ready to exploit it.

So Lam should just be careful and tell his guys what Noves now might be thinking himself.

Despite being bottom of the Pro 12 Connacht have their best squad ever. They've been losing a lot of close games and confidence has been low.The result against Edinburgh last week for example, they could easily have been in the lead but let chances go and then conceded 3 late tries. The Edinburgh and Toulouse games in the last week could turn out to be a watershed moment for Connacht.


Luckily for Connacht Henshaw and Marmion have just signed new contracts.

I disagree with talks about Toulouse not showing respect to Connacht. All week before the game, Noves and Elissalde have been sending warning signs. They lost the game because tactically they got it wrong and couldnt adapt. Just muscle and little brain... Playing possession rugby against such an organised defense wasnt working and they should have tried something else instead. Credit to connacht like said before and looking forward to galway this weekend.

Talk is easy whocares.  Everyone talks about everyone in the week before these games. The journalists are buzzing around camp and need their quotes so they get given them.

There is no way Toulouse expected, or could be expected to expect! , that performance from Connacht.  We watch them week in and out and even we didn't expect it.  I'm not saying 'disrespect' in a bad way - I understand fully that Toulouse would have lots on their minds, look at Connacht, see where they are in Pro12, see the results - look a little at videos - and feel they still have enough to cater for even a 40 or 50% improvement in Connacht's performances.

They weren't prepared mentally for that pace and especially the defending towards the end of the game.  I'm sure they always felt Connacht would eventually wilt.

But Connacht will get more specific attention this week during training. And if they try to play the exact same game they might be exposed now. That's all I'm saying.

am going to watch the galway game this weekend. will be my first time watching connacht live. can't wait. loved watching the way exeter valiantly gave it their all on saturday.

i love the games against the star studded french teams.

VinceWLB wrote:Glasgow's win in Toulouse has to be taken in consideration too, but i don't think The Warriors were bottom of the Celtic League back then.

Not only that, Vince, but Toulouse hadn't lost at home in a very very long time at that point - not to take anything away from Connacht's fabulous win

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

VinceWLB wrote:Glasgow's win in Toulouse has to be taken in consideration too, but i don't think The Warriors were bottom of the Celtic League back then.

Not only that, Vince, but Toulouse hadn't lost at home in a very very long time at that point - not to take anything away from Connacht's fabulous win

Until Sunday, I don't think they had lost one since, in the HC anyway.

Saw this on Balls.ie regarding everyones most grounded journalist Mr. S. Jones. always nice to get kind words like this to acknowledge a great display.

Asked for his thoughts on the “team of part-timers” beating the second placed team in the Top 14, he responded by saying

“Two rubbish teams and the French don’t care about Hein any more. Any thoughts?


It’s fair to say that he hasn’t been moved by Connacht’s performance in Toulouse, responding to one tweet lamenting his failure to praise Connacht by tweeting simply.

They are dreadful
He posited a further suggestion as to why Toulouse succumbed to the Westerners.

hard to motivate against a park team?
The man’s ardour for the rugby produced by teams from this nation and his willingness to acknowledge their achievements is simply awe-inspiring.

not saying i agree, but that's pretty funny! was he wronged by a connacht player in a former life?

S Jones wanted a centre partnership of Tindall and Noon. Nuff said

quinsforever wrote:not saying i agree, but that's pretty funny! was he wronged by a connacht player in a former life?

Quins......................? Surely you're old enough and immersed in rugby enough to know the joke about the Irish and Stephen Jones? That's right - it isn't a joke it's another of them feuding wars that have evolved in rugby over the years.

I hear that you have to be very smart, shifty and circuitous to be able to see Stephen's twitter account if you're Irish. It seems he's banned all irish from viewing his comments.

Correction it is funny. It's very funny. SJ always has been an A grade comedian.

I remember Stephen Jones was asked to name his favourite HC moments. He said he liked when the hand of Back ended Munsters hopes of winning the HC. He also thought that O'Driscoll and O'Connell should not have been selected for the Lions tour. In 2009.

I think his winding up of the Irish has become a joke at this stage. Because he can't really be that bitter.

SecretFly wrote:

quinsforever wrote:not saying i agree, but that's pretty funny! was he wronged by a connacht player in a former life?

Quins......................?  Surely you're old enough and immersed in rugby enough to know the joke about the Irish and Stephen Jones?  That's right - it isn't a joke it's another of them feuding wars that have evolved in rugby over the years.

I hear that you have to be very smart, shifty and circuitous to be able to see Stephen's twitter account if you're Irish.  It seems he's banned all irish from viewing his comments.  

Correction it is funny.  It's very funny.  SJ always has been an A grade comedian.

tbh i hadnt come across it before. only very recently joined a forum and obviously i have made much progess in my rugby knowledge as a result.

Keep listening to me ...and believing what I say...and you'll be fine, quins...............   

 

Amazing...another kiwi coach's first trek into the NH and they produce this...

Taylorman wrote:Amazing...another kiwi coach's first trek into the NH and they produce this...  

I'm going to use a saying I hate but...................... In fairness *shudder*  I know nobody outside Ireland really knows much about Connacht but Lam had the kind of players he'd have wanted to work with in the first place - and maybe Kiwi (Southern hemisphere) coaches are just attracted to the potential of the teams offered by particularly Irish rugby as distinct from the more general NH rugby?  Connacht had nice creative bite about them before Lam turned up, and that was all nurtured by an Irish coach with nothing to work with financially only pride in the players and in the kind of rugby they've always tried to play.

So yes, we do have an affinity for Kiwi (SH) coaches here it seems but it also seems to be a mutually beneficial environment for them - case in point being the difference between Vern Cotter trying to get his French and world-select superstars across the HEC line for a number of years now, and Schmidt - sliding in to Leinster and finding the players were ready, willing and able to help his ambitions out as much as he was ready to help them continue their winning ways.

Well done Connacht though why is it that Connacht can find the passion and ability to hold their own against two strong sides in their pool but in the Pro12 they are woeful?

Its the million dollar question BS.

beshocked wrote:Well done Connacht though why is it that Connacht can find the passion and ability to hold their own against two strong sides in their pool but in the Pro12 they are woeful?

In fairness they tend to bring their A game to the interpros, beating Leinster last year for example. But you are right they haven't done well enough in the league in recent years, particularly this year.

rodders wrote:

beshocked wrote:Well done Connacht though why is it that Connacht can find the passion and ability to hold their own against two strong sides in their pool but in the Pro12 they are woeful?

In fairness they tend to bring their A game to the interpros, beating Leinster last year for example. But you are right they haven't done well enough in the league in recent years, particularly this year.

Exactly...these are the things people don't know about Pro12. And certainly Noves didn't let his homework on them stretch too far back.

He will do homework now though - so attention attention Connacht. It'll be a bigger storm at the weekend.

Could it be, and this won't sit well with some, motivation, in part due to the league format?

Because the reality for Connacht is that there is no real incentive for them to leapfrog the teams above them like Dragons, Treviso etc.

What they crave is parity with the other provinces, this means leapfrogging one of the other 3 and gaining a Heino spot, beating them in one off games and performing on the stage they have now to show the IRFU that they deserve equal treatment.

Ah there is all the motivation you'd ever need Rodders.  
We all talk of rhythm.  No side can realistically think of controlling their rhythm to have them play good when they need to be and cruise when they don't - especially a low ranked team.  Even Leinster hates that suggestion as they try to get a rhythm going as early in the season as possible, as rhythm can be difficult to find mid-way through a season if you're lazy about it in the beginning.

There is more than enough in individual player pride to have sides try their best (or close to it) in most games.  And the truth is that Lam is right - it sounds crud but Connacht are a team that probably had the winning of more of the games they played and lost this season.  Something just doesn't seem to be balanced right but if they find it (running flyhalf   ) they'd be a mid ranking side.

Brennus wrote:

quinsforever wrote:toulouse will still feel they are in control of the group, and tbh they were probably too complacent given that the group is toulouse, saracens, connacht, zebre and assumed they just had to show up to get through to the next stage.

I could only accept that if Toulouse were the better side in the 2nd half. But they weren't. They were outplayed in both halves. I didn't see much evidence of Toulouse being complacent. Connacht were simply brilliant at times. Their defensive organisation, attacking and defending linespeed, recycling of the ball, competing at rucks etc. lasted for 80 minutes. Toulouse were going backwards and had run out of ideas at the 78 min mark. It wasn't just an astonishing result, it was an astonishing performance. But you're right in that Toulouse, having Sarries at home, are still in control of the group...although that could change next week if Connacht repeat what we saw today.

That's it, I'm downloading it roysh now.

Love Connacht. Love to see them do it again at the Showground. The place would go mental. We'd all go bleedin mental.

And why not? Same again lads.

Believe.