Injuries - Blessings In Disguise

No one would wish injury on anyone but its part and parcel of the game and whilst one door shut another opens etc etc.

So what instances are there that people can remember where the 1st choice player for injured and his understudy stepped and stepped upto mark:

The 2 I can think of at the moment are Matt Dawson and Gethin Jenkins

In 97 Howley was quite a considerable way ahead of Dawson in the Lions pecking order and had been showing great form until knackering his shoulder against Natal - Dawson stepped upto the mark and well rest is historty as they say.

In 05 Duncan Jones was seen as our No1 L/Head but again injury struck and Gethin stepped in and has never really looked back or been under any pressure no be anything but first choice.

In SA national coaches tend to hang onto senior player for too much of the season.

Duane Vermeulen would never have gotten a fair shot if it wasn't for the injury to Pierre spies, today he is a stalwart for the SA pack.

Jannie du Plessis has played non stop rugby for the past 2.5 years, never taking a break. This has put us in a position where no other itght head props have been given an opportunity to show their worth.

This November both Frans Malherbe and coenie Oosthuizen got an opportunity to take the responsibility and have passed with flying colours.

Now we have three options at tight head which wasn't so clear six month ago.

Carter, Cruden and Slade. Beaver stood up and the rest is history.

87 injuries saw the emergence of the Baby Blacks.

Carter falling apart has given rise to Cruden and Barrett.

Then I think of players like Juan Smith, Ferris, Corbs, Kahui, Pocock and you feel shortchanged for having seen so little of them.

True Kia, when I think back to last year, between injuries and retirements we had a totally new backrow and second row this past 18 months.


some injuries you are in a sense happy with, but others such as Juan SMith and Schalk Burger is a huge loss.

Biltong wrote:In SA national coaches tend to hang onto senior player for too much of the season.

Duane Vermeulen would never have gotten a fair shot if it wasn't for the injury to Pierre spies, today he is a stalwart for the SA pack.

Jannie du Plessis has played non stop rugby for the past 2.5 years, never taking a break. This has put us in a position where no other itght head props have been given an opportunity to show their worth.

This November both Frans Malherbe and coenie Oosthuizen got an opportunity to take the responsibility and have passed with flying colours.

Now we have three options at tight head which wasn't so clear six month ago.

Bil,

Thats very good point and we are suffering sort of with A Jones, he has been pretty much our only recognised and established T/Head and what made in worse in previous seasons was that when he was injured we tended to put either Jenkins or James there rather than blood a youngsters.

This season however we put R Jones there, though himself converted from a L/Head but least he is young and I thought he gave a very good showing of himself overall and we slowly introduced Lee off the bench.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Carter, Cruden and Slade. Beaver stood up and the rest is history.

87 injuries saw the emergence of the Baby Blacks.

Carter falling apart has given rise to Cruden and Barrett.

Then I think of players like Juan Smith, Ferris, Corbs, Kahui, Pocock and you feel shortchanged for having seen so little of them.

Nothing gets you over the final hurdle better than relying on a bit of gold old faithful kiwi beaver..!

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Biltong wrote:In SA national coaches tend to hang onto senior player for too much of the season.

Duane Vermeulen would never have gotten a fair shot if it wasn't for the injury to Pierre spies, today he is a stalwart for the SA pack.

Jannie du Plessis has played non stop rugby for the past 2.5 years, never taking a break. This has put us in a position where no other itght head props have been given an opportunity to show their worth.

This November both Frans Malherbe and coenie Oosthuizen got an opportunity to take the responsibility and have passed with flying colours.

Now we have three options at tight head which wasn't so clear six month ago.

Bil,

Thats very good point and we are suffering sort of with A Jones, he has been pretty much our only recognised and established T/Head and what made in worse in previous seasons was that when he was injured we tended to put either Jenkins or James there rather than blood a youngsters.

This season however we put R Jones there, though himself converted from a L/Head but least he is young and I thought he gave a very good showing of himself overall and we slowly introduced Lee off the bench.

We have been pretty good at blooding Tighthead options, last year Aaron Jarvis, before that Mitchell. Unfortunately we seem to always end up with three or four Tightheads injured at the same time.

Considering Rhodri Jones was playing for Llanelli in the welsh premiership with three players out injured ahead of him, he did well.

The star of the bunch for Wales looks like Sampson Lee. Very young still but shows immense strength.

As said no one wants to see injuries, but sometimes it does force a managers hand a little bit especially when some are set in their ways and often show a little too much loyalty, rigidity.

Lancaster is a prime example. With Englands sudden rash of injuries particularly in the backs it might mean "accidentally" unearthing a gem.

Likewise Corbs injuries allowed Marler to show that he can more than cope at this level.

I sometimes think that the full-recovery-but-needs-time-to-fix type injuries can sometimes be a blessing in disguise for the injured player too.

Wasn't halfpenny moved to fullback to cover injury? that seems to have worked out well. ..

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Carter, Cruden and Slade. Beaver stood up and the rest is history.

87 injuries saw the emergence of the Baby Blacks.

Carter falling apart has given rise to Cruden and Barrett.

Then I think of players like Juan Smith, Ferris, Corbs, Kahui, Pocock and you feel shortchanged for having seen so little of them.

Carlos Spencer broke his cheek bone in 2005 which opened the door for DC to start in the Lions series. Talk about "the rest is history".

There's been a few with Wales. We didn't really appreciate Martyn Williams until Colin Charvis was injured in 05. We didn't really utilise Shane Williams properly until we rotated for that NZ game in the World Cup in 03 (though that probably wasn't injury related).

Risca Rev wrote:There's been a few with Wales. We didn't really appreciate Martyn Williams until Colin Charvis was injured in 05. We didn't really utilise Shane Williams properly until we rotated for that NZ game in the World Cup in 03 (though that probably wasn't injury related).

Definitely, Shane Williams was taken as 3rd choice scrum half on that World Cup trip, as opposed to wing cover. Never looked back.

Tom Croft is making way for better players than him. As the other Tom who played 7 for wasps did.

I can't think of too many gems in England.

Rob Andrew made the 89 Lions tour because Paul Dean went down injured. The experience cemented his England spot ahead of Stuart Barnes, so I have mixed feelings about that outcome.

Guscott replaced Will Carling on that tour. It kickstarted his career but didn't end Carling's.

I still remember Nigel Redman playing a blinder in the 1993 win over New Zealand. He was about our fourth or fifth choice lock for that game as the others fell like flies. It was a high point in his career, though, rather than a springboard to more success.

Steve Borthwick's injury in 2010 turned things around for Johnson's England but the loss to Ireland and underwhelming 2011 World Cup meant that little rally came to a sudden halt. Also, while it opened the door for Lawes, I think it was Tom Palmer who took the 5 shirt in Borthwick's absence.

Griff wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:There's been a few with Wales. We didn't really appreciate Martyn Williams until Colin Charvis was injured in 05. We didn't really utilise Shane Williams properly until we rotated for that NZ game in the World Cup in 03 (though that probably wasn't injury related).

Definitely, Shane Williams was taken as 3rd choice scrum half on that World Cup trip, as opposed to wing cover.  Never looked back.

I've always been sceptical of that. He's never played sh for Wales before and want playing there for his region so suddenly ruddock picks him there for Wales. odd. .

It was Steve Hansen at the 2003 world cup wasn't it?

englandglory4ever wrote:Tom Croft is making way for better players than him. As the other Tom who played 7 for wasps did.

Do you mean Tom Rees wasps openside. Dont agree at all that it let better players in. He could have been absolutely class if he had been injury free....at a time when we were crying out for a ctop openside.

I'm sure half of Wales wanted to string up Stuart Barnes for suggesting this about Warburton getting injured for the Lions.

No 7&1/2 wrote:I'm sure half of Wales wanted to string up Stuart Barnes for suggesting this about Warburton getting injured for the Lions.

He just has to open his mouth and it has that affect on me, no matter what drivel he comes out with.

I think at the time (2011 world cup warm ups) the injury to Stephen Jones prompted to move Priestland at 10, and he was playing well at the time.

Griff wrote:It was Steve Hansen at the 2003 world cup wasn't it?

yep but never let the facts get in the way of a good story

GeordieFalcon wrote:

englandglory4ever wrote:Tom Croft is making way for better players than him. As the other Tom who played 7  for wasps did.

Do you mean Tom Rees wasps openside. Dont agree at all that it let better players in. He could have been absolutely class if he had been injury free....at a time when we were crying out for a ctop openside.

Yes I most definitely do mean Tom Rees. He was one of the most over hyped and over rated players of all time. Right up there with Michael Owen of Wales.

englandglory4ever wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

englandglory4ever wrote:Tom Croft is making way for better players than him. As the other Tom who played 7  for wasps did.

Do you mean Tom Rees wasps openside. Dont agree at all that it let better players in. He could have been absolutely class if he had been injury free....at a time when we were crying out for a ctop openside.

Yes I most definitely do mean Tom Rees. He was one of the most over hyped and over rated players of all time. Right up there with Michael Owen of Wales.

Rees was superb, was mooted FEC and IMO potentially world class, shame injury did for his career. Owen was a good player in a great side and i don't think he was over rated so much as lucky to be in the right place at the right time

englandglory4ever wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

englandglory4ever wrote:Tom Croft is making way for better players than him. As the other Tom who played 7  for wasps did.

Do you mean Tom Rees wasps openside. Dont agree at all that it let better players in. He could have been absolutely class if he had been injury free....at a time when we were crying out for a ctop openside.

Yes I most definitely do mean Tom Rees. He was one of the most over hyped and over rated players of all time. Right up there with Michael Owen of Wales.

Can't agree with that.

Don't you mean Lions captain Michael Owen?

I guess it's ok if you have good strength in depth. But areas and positions such as tigthhead and outside hale can be really hard to replace if you already have world class players in that area. Adam Jones is a good example of that.

We did miss out with Tom Rees. I can understand why some might have reservations. Plenty of players look great but don't shine when offered a chance in the England shirt. Or else they do look flash for a short time before failing to push on and realize their potential.

Players who are lost to the game early can always be talked up because they haven't had the chance to disappoint us. You even see some supporters getting wistful for players who already didn't perform at Test level, after they have been ignored for a while (Borthwick, Banahan, Cipriani etc)

I do think Rees would have impressed. James Forrester and Nick Duncombe too. Mind you, we aren't the only team to lose players to injury. And there's no guarantee that those lost early wouldn't have broken down later anyway. That's been a common theme for England.

Wilkinson has had a long career but England could never plan around him after 2003. Simpson Daniel, Tait and Sheridan are three players who could have had settled careers as first choice players if injury hadn't regularly undone them.

When you look at England now, it's not just Corbisiero who could be on the fitful career track. Lawes and Ben Youngs seem to have more than their fair share of injuries and Tuilagi is also oddly vulnerable. Croft may never get another run and you wonder how bullet-proof Foden is.

I wonder who our healthiest players are? You don't hear much about injuries to Farrell, Ashton and Robshaw. Back in the day, Tindall rarely seemed to miss a test through injury. Anyone recall Martin Johnson getting crocked?

ChequeredJersey wrote:

englandglory4ever wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

englandglory4ever wrote:Tom Croft is making way for better players than him. As the other Tom who played 7  for wasps did.

Do you mean Tom Rees wasps openside. Dont agree at all that it let better players in. He could have been absolutely class if he had been injury free....at a time when we were crying out for a ctop openside.

Yes I most definitely do mean Tom Rees. He was one of the most over hyped and over rated players of all time. Right up there with Michael Owen of Wales.

Can't agree with that.

Yeah, i'm pretty baffled by that comment as well. Rees was a stand out amongst a pretty decent Wasps squad and was captain too. He was one of few players (Haskell and Narraway) that shone in the tour of NZ that year and even when straight back from injury always performed very well. I remember in his first game back for wasps after a 3 month lay off he'd made 3 turnovers in the first 20 minutes or so, he was a very very good player who we unfortunately never got to see the best of.

John Hart was captain of wasps too but never made it to the England squad as far as I remember. That means nothing.

I wonder if we can start inflicting 'e' based injuries on Empire….e.g. tendonitis of the fingers, out for 3 weeks….just a thought?