Aviva Premiership Round Twelve

First topic message reminder :

Fri 3rd Jan 14 19:45 PR Newcastle Falcons v Sale Sharks Kingston Park
Fri 3rd Jan 14 19:45 PR Northampton Saints v Harlequins Franklin's Gardens
Sat 4th Jan 14 15:00 PR London Irish v Worcester Warriors Madejski Stadium
Sat 4th Jan 14 15:15 PR Gloucester Rugby v Saracens Kingsholm
Sun 5th Jan 14 14:00 PR Leicester Tigers v Bath Rugby Welford Road
Sun 5th Jan 14 15:00 PR London Wasps v Exeter Chiefs Adams Park



Some big fixtures again this weekend. I'm going for Sharks, Saints, Saracens, Tigers and Chiefs to win. Not predicting on the Irish game, just praying this week!   

beshocked wrote:Fair point doctor grey. Tindall certainly scares me!

Basically kingelderfield Gloucester must play their best game of the season. Gloucester are capable of it sure but taking on a form side is never easy.

The game won in the front row really? I don't think so. I think it will hinge on whose most clinical and about momentum. Nailing the basics - simple as that. Sarries are tough to beat because they are well organised - they have been performing the basics well. Nothing flashy. Just good core skills.

My point about the front row really relates to the scrum and how effecting this aspect of the game is if one side dominates; penalties, yellow cards, penalty tries etc. Somthing Gloucester would need to avoid at all costs.

You're comment about nailing the basics is absolutely correct and why I think if Glaws are to win it will have to be a game of utter passion, not somthing I will bet the house on, but what have they got to lose? Freddie's back on a wave of emotional, there's england selections to influence and the Shed will want blood...for a change...and maybe just maybe Sarries will have their heads elsewhere for next weeks game?

Logic has Sarries as favorites however there will be good betting odds to the contrary.

doctor_grey wrote:Thanks, brother.  No mojo-itos, just good olde Boddington's.  I am going to see Saints tonight, then going back to the US on Saturday.  I was invited to watch some of the Saints preparation the other day.  They kept bombing Collins with kicks all over the pitch and he was pretty good.   In that weird swirling wind.  He is pretty confident for a 19 year old.  In the game Quins will go after him, as we all would.  He might botch one, but will make some good plays.  The kid has skills.  How he goes might dictate the game.  

Enjoy the game doctor, I'm insanely jealous! Everytime I've made it back it's either been off season or the Saints are away from home with no chance of me making the trip . The Boddington's sounds good too (although I'm generally a  man nowdays I would never turn my nose up at a good traditional ale). I've been impressed by Collins so far but got the impression he was an out and out winger but seeing as you've seen him first hand then I feel a little better about his selection. I guess the truth of the matter is that until that new 15 from Samoa is settled then he's just about the only player they have left to field there.

Usually sneak out of work early when not working away whilst Saints play on a Friday night (kick off is early afternoon here) but can't today due to some stupid meeting. Torn between checking the score on my phone every 20 seconds or watching the game later tonight without knowing the score. Going to try and hold out until I can watch the game but I guess we will see.

Good so far, think we look a touch better so far in a close tough match

Pretty harsh yellow

Let off there

30 mins in and it's 3-6 to Quins with Guest just yellow carded. Big 10 mins for the away team before the break now.

What was the yellow for CJ?

I thought Easter was pretty lucky not to go earlier as he cynically lay on the ball. Think that was in the refs mind when Guest dropped that maul as it rumbled to the line. Certainly most refs would have given a warning first.

As Sam said, bringing down a maul, clear penalty, harsh yellow but at 6-6 the match is poised. Saints had the start, we had the middle then Saints the end of the half, but both defences rock solid

Lots of handling errors but no surprise in this pitch and wind. Our scrum has collapsed a few times but surprised me by crushing saints a few times too

STAT ATTACK

Only 2 teams have averaged more possession per game than @FalconsRugby this season in @premrugby. B

Nev injured

Harsh, well a little but if you give cynical penalties a couple of metres out from the try line then you run the risk of a card.

Botica on for Evans. Bit of a blow for Quins there as his experience guided them well in the first half.

Now North scores. Annoying try after all that hard work in defence

Walker caught sitting on his heels in the tackle. You can't be that passive in contact and expect to fell a powerful runner like North.

Anyone else bemused by Dickson's inability to understand you need to take the free kick or penalty from the back of the scrum? He's an international scrum half, he should know this.

Saints should have someone in the bin for that, a clear punch.

ref says "he could of got out of the way".... errrr he doesnt have too!

WHAT!!!

lol, feel sorry for quins, surely at least one of those should of been a yellow. You can't punch or elbow someone in the face regardless.

No all a load of handbags. I don't even think Saints should have had the 'obstruction' penalty.

Great hit by Marler on such a big man.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:No all a load of handbags. I don't even think Saints should have had the 'obstruction' penalty.

i disagree, Saints 3 punched with a clenched fist.

But on the good side it might add a bit of spice to the game, it's been a bit sloppy (due to the conditions)

Marler should teach Walker how to tackle North. What a peach.

surprised that Myler is still on

Sounds like a good game. How is the set piece going?

Really surprised. He's been limping from near the start

Quins imploding now. Good news i suppose for the Tigers.

Quins have been really disrupted Saints Lineouts (ironically just lead to a Saints try). Scrum has been a bit of mess. Pitch is a state.

Myles looks like he's in agony

Well won Saints, far too many errors by us in the second half

Absolute hospital pass

Poopie this means Toast will be bag again like a bad smell!

This is why we lost, just too many dropped balls

Well, we're just joining the list of teams to not get a LBP at Franklin Gardens

I don't think we need to worry too much, as long as we spark a bit more next week, but we will drop to mid table

yappysnap wrote:Poopie this means Toast will be bag again like a bad smell!

You mean butter? Banned again. Probably be a new poster called jam. It think the weather and wet ground hampered Quins game.

Nah, we just lacked the tools to win it after Nev went off

Had no direction second half Quins , North will get plaudits for changing game but Evans going off cost them more.

Never seen Quins board angrier with a ref ever. I personally think we lost because Saints dropped the ball less than us, but the ref did miss several possible cards (including one by us). Could see some citings, to be honest if there had been a red or two and we had won, we wouldn't have really deserved it based on that second half

Morning, boys.
Was indeed a weird match at the Gardens last night.  The result was great for Saints fans, but Quins showed a lot of toughness on defense throughout.  

Firstly, everyone agreed the referee did indeed lose control of the match.   It was really shocking to see a referee appear so out of his element.  I would not be surprised if he is suspended or sent to some Chinese government re-education camp for a while.   He lost control to that degree.  And this was the unfortunate story of the match.

In the first half, it was scrum reset after reset.  Never did anything to get it fixed.  Allowed Quins to delay and slow proceedings during the Tom Guest yellow card (OK Saints fans were a little annoyed, but I thought it was mostly professionally done, and I would have done most of the same since the ref did nothing).  In the second half, he lost control of the physical side of the match.  There was a bit of off the ball stuff, but I blame the referee as he was clearly the enabler.  Quins fans were complaining that Lawes elbowed Robson in the head, but the 600 replays shown on the big screens due to the TMO replays showed that was not right.  Ma'afu might have gotten away with a punch, but I thought Marler (?) might have also.   Molenaar took a half step into Tm Collins after a clearance kick and Garner allowed play to continue for seeming minutes before bring it back for replay.  We all thought he missed it, it took that long.  

The weather was wet and windy, the ball was hard to handle.  Was difficult for either team to run with the ball.  There were a lot of drops, though I think Quins dropped a few more.  Saints had better possession, Quins had a bit more ball but were mostly bottled up in their own end.  Both sides played excellent defense.    

I think Quins lost something when Nick Evans went off.  Botica just doesn't have the same spark or intangible.  Certainly cost Quins something, we all thought.  I thought Quins defense was very strong.  Robson was very good, too, I thought.

George North finally scored a classic North try, his first 'North-like' try of the season.  It turned the match around.  He ran through one of the Quins wings after taking a clearance kick, then went straight for a score.  After the match people were joking it was the £60,000 try (the penalty and price for signing North with his Wales escape clause).  

Hartley played great and really led from the front.  Myler was great playing the second half on one leg.  And Tom Collins, Saints 19 year old wing filling in at fullback, was terrific.  After some early match jitters - remember it was cold, wet, and slippery - he was very solid.  Really proud of him.  Good lad, too.  

Overall not a great spectacle.  Two good teams, very physical, but the match was clearly undermined by the referee.  I think Saints might have been a little fortunate to play both matches against Quins on windy wet days.

doctor_grey wrote:Morning, boys.
Was indeed a weird match at the Gardens last night.  The result was great for Saints fans, but Quins showed a lot of toughness on defense throughout.  

Firstly, everyone agreed the referee did indeed lose control of the match.   It was really shocking to see a referee appear so out of his element.  I would not be surprised if he is suspended or sent to some Chinese government re-education camp for a while.   He lost control to that degree.  And this was the unfortunate story of the match.

In the first half, it was scrum reset after reset.  Never did anything to get it fixed.  Allowed Quins to delay and slow proceedings during the Tom Guest yellow card (OK Saints fans were a little annoyed, but I thought it was mostly professionally done, and I would have done most of the same since the ref did nothing).  In the second half, he lost control of the physical side of the match.  There was a bit of off the ball stuff, but I blame the referee as he was clearly the enabler.  Quins fans were complaining that Lawes elbowed Robson in the head, but the 600 replays shown on the big screens due to the TMO replays showed that was not right.  Ma'afu might have gotten away with a punch, but I thought Marler (?) might have also.   Molenaar took a half step into Tm Collins after a clearance kick and Garner allowed play to continue for seeming minutes before bring it back for replay.  We all thought he missed it, it took that long.  

The weather was wet and windy, the ball was hard to handle.  Was difficult for either team to run with the ball.  There were a lot of drops, though I think Quins dropped a few more.  Saints had better possession, Quins had a bit more ball but were mostly bottled up in their own end.  Both sides played excellent defense.    

I think Quins lost something when Nick Evans went off.  Botica just doesn't have the same spark or intangible.  Certainly cost Quins something, we all thought.  I thought Quins defense was very strong.  

George North finally scored a classic North try, his first 'North-like' try of the season.  It turned the match around.  He ran through one of the Quins wings after taking a clearance kick, then went straight for a score.  After the match people were joking it was the £60,000 try (the penalty and price for signing North with his Wales escape clause).  

Hartley played great and really led from the front.  Myler was great playing the second half on one leg.  And Tom Collins, Saints 19 year old wing filling in at fullback, was terrific.  After some early match jitters - remember it was cold, wet, and slippery) he was very solid.  Really proud of him.  Good lad, too.  

Overall not a great spectacle.  Two good teams, very physical, but the match was clearly undermined by the referee.

With Marlers possible punch you can't see it connecting so he may be lucky. For me Lawes elbow did connect but he was being held so im happy to let that go.

Molenaar didn't take any step, his feet didn't move at all. He did shift his body weight to one side though but was that to protect himself? i think only he can answer that. I think the ref got the right decision in the end - although it shouldn't taken that long.

I agree, it was hard to see if Marler connected.  I wouldn't make a deal out of it.  I saw it because I had a direct line of sight at the match.  Many people afterwards didn't know anything had happened.  The Lawes-Robson tie-up was as much about Robson holding on to Lawes from behind like a dog ready to hump his master's leg, as anything.  He held Lawes back and Lawes turned to get out.  No biggie for me either way.    

Just watching the replay now.  Glad my dad recorded it.  To me Molenaar does seem to take a half step into Collins' path.  He shoulders stayed square to Collins too.  But, I agree, it was the right call by the referee in the end, but he lost control of the match in the meantime.  Why did he let play go on?

I thought the linesman told him to "check that" and he queried what he needed to check at the next break of play. Think he missed the incident.

doctor_grey wrote:I agree, it was hard to see if Marler connected.  I wouldn't make a deal out of it.  I saw it because I had a direct line of sight at the match.  Many people afterwards didn't know anything had happened.  The Lawes-Robson tie-up was as much about Robson holding on to Lawes from behind like a dog ready to hump his master's leg, as anything.  He held Lawes back and Lawes turned to get out.  No biggie for me either way.    

Just watching the replay now.  Glad my dad recorded it.  To me Molenaar does seem to take a half step into Collins' path.  He shoulders stayed square to Collins too.  But, I agree, it was the right call by the referee in the end, but he lost control of the match in the meantime.  Why did he let play go on?

i think the ref probably knew it was a very stop start game (through the refs fault at scrum time) and was trying to make it flow a bit better so he let them play on.

I agree it was a pretty bad performance from the ref, not because of any incorrect big decisions but the many little ones. It just resulted in a slow game with no rythm (not sure how much of that was due to the weather).

I think the conditions were a part of it. It was also the worst pitch conditions I have ever seen at the Gardens.

formerly known as Sam wrote:I thought the linesman told him to "check that" and he queried what he needed to check at the next break of play. Think he missed the incident.

OK, makes sense. I thought it was hard to miss.  The entire ground moaned when it happened.  

Cripe, I just saw myself on the replay.  Seriously.  
If you watch, I am the bloke with the beer in his hand...........

doctor_grey wrote:I think the conditions were a part of it.  It was also the worst pitch conditions I have ever seen at the Gardens.  

I've never been a fan of evening/night games especially in the mid winter when any sensible person would rather be infront of a roaring fire.

Was it raining? It didn't look like it on the telly.

I have to say, and I know it changes the dynamic of the play considerably, but in a time of professionalism we should be considering a plastic pitch - last nights game would have been very different played on a modern 4G pitch. For me it has to be the way forward.

Wasn't raining, and just a bit of drizzle from time to time.  I was surprised Saints must have left the pitch uncovered when it was raining for a while beforehand.  They usually have that pitch in terrific shape despite the weather.  They take pride in that.  

We might all end up with those new pitches in the long run, either the fully synthetic or the hybrid.  Saints are not planning anything at this moment.  But like everyone, are keeping one eye open.  I know there will be a review of the various NFL turfs when the Rugby season is over.  There is a longer playing history there, and at US universities.

They said they had been pumping water off the pitch all week.

HammerofThunor wrote:They said they had been pumping water off the pitch all week.

The River Nene was very high.  I wonder if the flood control went boobies-up again.  The water table is extremely high. Now that you mention it, I do recall hearing something like that.

It will be interesting to see the state of the Gloucester pitch today.

Also Bath have been very lucky fixture wise as the Rec was pictured under water last week.

looks like it could be a long game for glous.