England *EPS 2014* and 6N Squad

EPS

Forwards (17)
David Attwood (Bath Rugby) Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers) Alex Corbisiero (Northampton Saints) Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers) Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints) Matt Kvesic (Gloucester Rugby) Joe Launchbury (London Wasps) Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints) Joe Marler (Harlequins) Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby) Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers) Chris Robshaw (Harlequins) Billy Vunipola (Saracens) Mako Vunipola (Saracens) David Wilson (Bath Rugby) Tom Wood (Northampton Saints) Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Backs (16)
Chris Ashton (Saracens) Brad Barritt (Saracens) Mike Brown (Harlequins) Freddie Burns (Gloucester Rugby) Danny Care (Harlequins) Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints) Owen Farrell (Saracens) George Ford (Bath Rugby) Ben Foden (Northampton Saints) Alex Goode (Saracens) Kyle Eastmond (Bath Rugby) Manusamoa Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers) Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby) Christian Wade (London Wasps) Marland Yarde (London Irish) Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)


England RBS 6 Nations squad (35)

Forwards (18)
David Attwood (Bath Rugby) Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers) Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints) Matt Kvesic (Gloucester Rugby) Tom Johnson (Exeter Chiefs) Joe Launchbury (London Wasps) Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints) Joe Marler (Harlequins) Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby) Matt Mullan (London Wasps) Chris Robshaw (Harlequins) Ed Slater (Leicester Tigers) Henry Thomas (Sale Sharks) Billy Vunipola (Saracens) Mako Vunipola (Saracens) Rob Webber (Bath Rugby) Tom Wood (Northampton Saints) Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Backs (17)
Chris Ashton (Saracens) Brad Barritt (Saracens) Mike Brown (Harlequins) Luther Burrell (Northampton Saints) Danny Care (Harlequins) Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints) Kyle Eastmond (Bath Rugby) Owen Farrell (Saracens) George Ford (Bath Rugby) Alex Goode (Saracens) Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby) Stephen Myler (Northampton Saints) Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs) Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby) Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby) Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens) Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)


England Saxons squad:
Forwards (17): C Clark (Northampton), J Crane (Leicester), P Doran Jones (Harlequins), W Fraser (Saracens), J Haskell (Wasps), T Johnson (Exeter), G Kitchener (Leicester), G Kruis (Saracens), K Myall (Wasps), D Paice (London Irish), G Robson (Harlequins), E Slater (Leicester), H Thomas (Sale), T Waldrom (Leicester), L Wallace (Harlequins), R Webber (Bath), N Wood (Gloucester).

Backs (15): A Allen (Leicester), L Burrell (Northampton), E Daly (Wasps), G Ford (Bath), J Joseph (Bath), J May (Gloucester), U Monye (Harlequins), S Myler (Northampton), J Nowell (Exeter), C Sharples (Gloucester), J Simpson (Wasps), D Strettle (Saracens), M Tait (Leicester), J Tomkins (Saracens), R Wigglesworth (Saracens).

I think it looks a very good squad on paper.

4 scrum halves, 4 wingers, 4 12s, 3 10s, 2 15s in the 6 nations squad.

How can Burns be in the EPS squad but not the 6 nations squad?

Notice how there are no recognised 13's in there? May and Watson have both played alot of rugby at FB so we're not as light there as you think. 4 SH is excessive though

Very good squad. Plenty new faces.

I think there are the 4 scrum halves because Lancaster is not really sure to go for.

Might be criticism of the recall of Wigglesworth but he's been in very good form recently. Plus a club half back combo could be put in place with Farrell. He's also one of the best box kickers in England - something that SL and Farrell Dr like.

I'd start with Wigglesworth if Farrell is the 1st choice FH (which he is)

I have no problem with that what so ever.   

The comments from Lancaster make it quite clear on the FH situation:

Farrell is first choice
Flood would be second but hes a dick
Ford will be the bench option for the 6 nations
Myler is training with the squad but I dont think hes all that
Burns needs to sort his form out
Cipriani doesnt exist

I'm loving that squad. A couple a tweaks post injury and it'll look great imo.

why even start this thread?

Scratch wrote:why even start this thread?

Why not?

Scrumpy fair enough. It would give armchair fans yet another scapegoat too.

PSW fair assessment I would say.

No point wasting a squad spot on Flood if he is going to France, might as well blood Ford instead.

Picking Myler means him and Dickson make a half back combo just like Wigglesworth-Farrell.

In regards to Cipriani he probably wants him to show form over a whole season (prove that he's a changed man).

I think if we have Wigglesworth in the eps theres no need for Dickson, they both offer similar things but Wiggs to a much higher standard imo

beshocked wrote:Scrumpy fair enough. It would give armchair fans yet another scapegoat too.

Thats true, Youngs and Care have never done it for me and it makes sense to start with Wigglesworth if it helps Farrell.

I wonder if the solution to the problem at 13 is just to leave them out though?

cb wrote:I wonder if the solution to the problem at 13 is just to leave them out though?

If it works why not?

To be honest there is enough talent to get by in that squad if they have the right game plan!

belovedfrosties wrote:I think if we have Wigglesworth in the eps theres no need for Dickson, they both offer similar things but Wiggs to a much higher standard imo

Completely agree there - 4 no9's is a bit much.

Wiggles covers 10 too does he not!

belovedfrosties wrote:I think if we have Wigglesworth in the eps theres no need for Dickson, they both offer similar things but Wiggs to a much higher standard imo

Disagree. Similar players in some facets of play and Wiggleworth is currently the form 9 but think 'much higher standard' is pushing it. Remember most people agreed that Dickson was the form 9 before the autumn series. Saying that I have no problem with Wigglesworth being chosen, he seems to playing with more speed and intensity these last couple of months.

Think four 9's is too many, he should have chosen 3 and told the other one they just missed out. That way he could have added to another position in the squad, maybe TH or back row. Unless 1 or 2 of the 9's are carrying injuries I guess.

Scrumpy wrote:Wiggles covers 10 too does he not!

Not sure about that. Remember him covering 10 for a few Sale games during Saint-Andre's time there when the first and second choice 10 was injured and the 3rd choice (David Blair I think) was really struggling for form. Perhaps beshocked can confirm but I don't think he's ever played a competitive game there for Saracens in the 2.5 seasons he's been there. If he does make the match day 23 then Twelvetrees and Goode would be probably be called into emergency FH action before him if the first choice 10's go down.

Unless your Nick Mallet in which case you could just start him at 10 against France anyway.

It’s because Stewie thinks that in the backs, SH is the only specialized position (that, or maybe he thinks all 4 are poor).

Stewie believes in the universal rugby player concept where, for example, a back rower should be able to play in any of the 3 positions (with interchange with SR, eg. Lawes, Launchbury); same in the back 3; and in the centres. Even FH is covered by Farrell, Ford, 12T and Goode.

Maybe SL would be prefer managing a RL side. Or maybe its Farrell senior's influence.

Dickson should be removed from both squads, he's not good enough.

Youngs/Care/Wiggle - EPS
Robson/Simpson - Saxons

No probs with Wigglesworth being added to the squad, he's earned it. However what does B.Youngs have to do to be dropped? Has been woefully out of form for club all season... someones got some in flagrante picks of Bomber and Faz snr! For me I'd play Wiggle and Care on the bench. Dickson too similar to Wiggle and didn't take his chance in the AI's.

Additionally have we not learnt our lesson about playing players out of position? 4 inside centres... I only hope Bomber tweaks it a little on 17th Jan and brings in Joseph.

Pack looks great and picks itself, back 3 should be interesting and hope May and Nowell get a chance to show their stuff. Watson also ace to have in and around the squad.

All in all good things... good things... 92% happy!

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Dickson should be removed from both squads, he's not good enough.

Youngs/Care/Wiggle - EPS
Robson/Simpson - Saxons

Comon Sgt, although I'm a Saints fan and biased it's harsh to say he should be behind behind Simpson. He's not even been first choice at Wasps recently and I remember reading on here (I think) a Wasps fan wondering he is actually a better winger than 9  . For me doesn't do the basics of 9 play well enough to be considered at international level. Just because he's very fast it doesn't mean he's good enough.

Actually think Dickson is like many of the 9's in the prem in that they struggle to step up to international level and didn't do enough to keep his place in the November games. Think Ben Youngs probably has the most ability of all the 9's available but agree with Wydnej that his form is poor and has been for a while.

I would have put Trinder in instead of one of the 9s. The squad(s) are pretty much what has been reported in the media.

Centre has been the big problem for years. Playing Burrell and 12T (either way round) with a 10 that's allowed to play flatter might give us a chance of unlocking defences.

Any chance we could have this thread merged with the other one? Hard to follow debate on both, and both are essentially the same thread

Yea putting Dickson behind Simpson was harsh, he's utter dross.

I actually think Youngs has been playing well.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Dickson should be removed from both squads, he's not good enough.

Youngs/Care/Wiggle - EPS
Robson/Simpson - Saxons

Sarge, what is up with you and Saints, did they abduct your missus and teach her dirty songs or something. You are anti any Saints player, Dickson & Myler in particular as well as Lawes, Wood and possibles like Burrell.

They were AP finalist last year have made the playoffs for the past few years but you rate their player as if the were a Championship side. They must have something to be in the position they are and have been in recent years.

Well done Slater fully deserved.

Really like those squads, just a couple of points:

1. How has Kvesic stayed in the senior side?!
2. As mentioned 4 sh's is too many. Depressingly I can see Faz, I mean Lancaster, choosing Wigs and Farrell to start, making the AI backline problems all over again.
3. Hopefully no 12'a means Faz, sorry Lancaster, is keeping his options open for form picks closer to the 6Ns.

Oh and great to see Collier and Wallace in the Saxons, much deserved and a testament to both of thems improvement in form this season.

yappysnap wrote:Oh and great to see Collier and Wallace in the Saxons, much deserved and a testament to both of thems improvement in form this season.

Wasn't Wallace in the Saxons when it was announced in July? If you ask me he should've replaced Kvesic in the senior EPS he's had some excellent games for Quins recently. Lancs was very limited on his choices though this time around however.

Perhaps he'll move up closer to the actual tournament?

yappysnap wrote:Really like those squads, just a couple of points:

1. How has Kvesic stayed in the senior side?!
2. As mentioned 4 sh's is too many. Depressingly I can see Faz, I mean Lancaster, choosing Wigs and Farrell to start, making the AI backline problems all over again.
3. Hopefully no 12'a means Faz, sorry Lancaster, is keeping his options open for form picks closer to the 6Ns.

4SHs is only because Wrigglesworth is called up to the training squad from the Saxons, no? Which implies to me that Danny is an injury doubt, and therefore probably won't play against ASM

BamBam wrote:Any chance we could have this thread merged with the other one? Hard to follow debate on both, and both are essentially the same thread

Mate the other one doesn't have the new Eps squad at the top of the page and also it is nearly at its limit!  

Nice to Slater promoted. Has been excellent at lock and 6 for Tigers this season. Just what England need, another powerful carrier in the pack.

There's some good options there but a distinct lack of real experience at international level. Robshaw is going to have to be at his best to guide this England team. I'm hoping to see this team vs France:

1. Vunipola
2 Hartley
3. Cole
4. Launchbury
5. Lawes
6. Slater
7. Robshaw
8. Vunipola
9. Wigglesworth
10. Farrell
11. Watson
12. Burrell
13. Twelvetrees
14. Nowell
15. Brown

Bench: Marler, Youngs, Thomas, Wood, Morgan, Youngs, Ford, May.

Someone has pointed this out to me o. Twitter as well.

" OptaJonny@
91% - Tom Youngs has thrown the most successful lineouts in the league & Europe this season, at a better success rate than the top 10. Two?"

" OptaJonny@

88% - DylanHartley has delivered the 2nd most successful lineouts in the league & Europe, at the 2nd best success rate (top 10). Sixteen?"

Options at hooker are looking good.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Nice to Slater promoted. Has been excellent at lock and 6 for Tigers this season. Just what England need, another powerful carrier in the pack.

There's some good options there but a distinct lack of real experience at international level. Robshaw is going to have to be at his best to guide this England team. I'm hoping to see this team vs France:

1. Vunipola
2 Hartley
3. Cole
4. Launchbury
5. Lawes
6. Slater
7. Robshaw
8. Vunipola
9. Wigglesworth
10. Farrell
11. Watson
12. Burrell
13. Twelvetrees
14. Nowell
15. Brown

Bench: Marler, Youngs, Thomas, Wood, Morgan, Youngs, Ford, May.

I wouldn't drop Wood, partly because of the experience thing you mention, but also because he is an excellent flanker. Slater off the bench for me, him coming on with Morgan, Mako and Youngs would add some serious strong ball carrying to the pack in the last 20

fkaS doesn't rate Wood at international level so no surprise to see him pick Slater at 6! Other than that I like the team, maybe May at 11 with Watson on the bench. Think SL will go with Barritt at 12 mind and not Burrell.

Serious question for fkaS and all Tigers fans. I like Slater and am happy he's been called up. However he seems to give away a decent amount of pens when I watch games with him starting. I noticed it again against Bath, not just the obvious Stringer one but thought he was lucky not to get pinged more, especially when defending a couple of Bath driving mauls where he seemed to come from the side to challenge the carrier. This is not a dig as I do rate him but it does concern me as an England fan.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Someone has pointed this out to me o. Twitter as well.

" OptaJonny@
91% - Tom Youngs has thrown the most successful lineouts in the league & Europe this season, at a better success rate than the top 10. Two?"

" OptaJonny@

88% - DylanHartley has delivered the 2nd most successful lineouts in the league & Europe, at the 2nd best success rate (top 10). Sixteen?"

Options at hooker are looking good.

Don't always know what to make of lineout throwing stats. It's certainly good to read from a defensive point of view on your throw when your defending the corners but can't really remember either Saints or Tigers really throwing long much, both teams seem to go more safety first at lineouts and throw to the front/middle even when around the opposition 22. Would love to see Saints take more of a risk, throw to the back and try and generate fast ball off the top more with Burell or North running on to the ball.

1. Marler
2 Hartley
3. Cole
4. Launchbury
5. Lawes
6. Wood
7. Robshaw
8. Morgan
9. Wigglesworth
10. Farrell
11. May
12. Twelvetrees
13. Eastmond
14. Nowell
15. Brown

Formerly known as Sam surely Slater is a lock?

I cannot see Lancaster dropping Wood nor Ashton.

Tom Youngs is a good lineout thrower at club level, it's his throwing at international level that's questionable.

B91212 don't know how anyone cannot rate Wood when he's playing at 6 for England.

Lots of important matches this weekend to see how everyone is faring.

Significant match ups in my opinion:

Hibbard vs Hartley

AWJ vs Lawes

Picamoles vs Billy

Census vs Mako

Gear vs Ashton

Medard vs Goode


Care vs Parra

Marler vs Divat

Brown vs Byrne

It's Picamoles vs Billy which is the exciting one for me!

I like that team EnglishReign, swap Nowell for Ashton and I think that may well be the one Lancaster goes for.

formerly known as Sam wrote:
6. Slater
7. Robshaw
8. Vunipola

I know you've got athletics guys like Lawes and Launchbury elsewhere in the pack, but isn't this too slow for an international back row?

formerly known as Sam wrote:Nice to Slater promoted. Has been excellent at lock and 6 for Tigers this season. Just what England need, another powerful carrier in the pack.

There's some good options there but a distinct lack of real experience at international level. Robshaw is going to have to be at his best to guide this England team. I'm hoping to see this team vs France:

1. Vunipola
2 Hartley
3. Cole
4. Launchbury
5. Lawes
6. Slater
7. Robshaw
8. Vunipola
9. Wigglesworth
10. Farrell
11. Watson
12. Burrell
13. Twelvetrees
14. Nowell
15. Brown

Bench: Marler, Youngs, Thomas, Wood, Morgan, Youngs, Ford, May.

I suspect there is a 0% chance of seeing that back line. There are just too many variables from the norm, a) for it to work, and b) to be able to easily work out why it has failed.

If everyone is fit then Lancaster's preferred back line I suspect is 9. ??? 10. Farrell 11. Yarde 12. Barritt 13. Tuilagi 14. Ashton 15. Brown/Goode. Given that Tuilagi and Yarde are missing through injury I can only see Lancaster making changes in the 11 and 13 jerseys, and I think that is the right decision. At 13 I would probably look at Twelvetrees as we don't have a natural 13 replacement in the squad, and would look at either Watson or Nowell on the left wing.

I think Morgan has more impact than Vunipola as for Slater i'd still go with Wood for the 1st game if fit.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Dickson should be removed from both squads, he's not good enough.

Youngs/Care/Wiggle - EPS
Robson/Simpson - Saxons

Sarge, what is up with you and Saints, did they abduct your missus and teach her dirty songs or something. You are anti any Saints player, Dickson & Myler in particular as well as Lawes, Wood and possibles like Burrell.

They were AP finalist last year have made the playoffs for the past few years but you rate their player as if the were a Championship side. They must have something to be in the position they are and have been in recent years.

I'm not really sure what you're going on about past it, I have nothing against any side.

I don't rate Dickson or Myler particularly highly but I can't recall knocking Wood or Burrell at any point and I think Lawes has been great of late.

I think you're getting a little defensive. I don't rate Dickson as an Int player but he's a good AP player, similar with Myler.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Dickson should be removed from both squads, he's not good enough.

Youngs/Care/Wiggle - EPS
Robson/Simpson - Saxons

Sarge, what is up with you and Saints, did they abduct your missus and teach her dirty songs or something. You are anti any Saints player, Dickson & Myler in particular as well as Lawes, Wood and possibles like Burrell.

They were AP finalist last year have made the playoffs for the past few years but you rate their player as if the were a Championship side. They must have something to be in the position they are and have been in recent years.

I'm not really sure what you're going on about past it, I have nothing against any side.

I don't rate Dickson or Myler particularly highly but I can't recall knocking Wood or Burrell at any point and I think Lawes has been great of late.

I think you're getting a little defensive. I don't rate Dickson as an Int player but he's a good AP player, similar with Myler.

Not often I agree with Pooly, but this is one of those occasions. Dickson and Myler are fine club players, but they are not international standard. We will not win the World Cup with them in the team.

No way both Nowell and Watson are starting at the same time, both with zero caps. Possibly one starting but more likely one on the bench, and that only because of injuries. Definite players for the future which is why they are part of the wider squads now, but they would have to make unanswerable cases in training to get into the match day squads.

Lancaster has given young and new players a chance to shine, particularly with the forwards and fly half does anyone think this is the tournament where he really goes for it? Will he pull something crazy like plating May at 13 like Woodward keeps banging on about or start one of Nowell, Eastmond or Watson?