England *EPS 2014* and 6N Squad

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EPS

Forwards (17)
David Attwood (Bath Rugby) Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers) Alex Corbisiero (Northampton Saints) Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers) Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints) Matt Kvesic (Gloucester Rugby) Joe Launchbury (London Wasps) Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints) Joe Marler (Harlequins) Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby) Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers) Chris Robshaw (Harlequins) Billy Vunipola (Saracens) Mako Vunipola (Saracens) David Wilson (Bath Rugby) Tom Wood (Northampton Saints) Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Backs (16)
Chris Ashton (Saracens) Brad Barritt (Saracens) Mike Brown (Harlequins) Freddie Burns (Gloucester Rugby) Danny Care (Harlequins) Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints) Owen Farrell (Saracens) George Ford (Bath Rugby) Ben Foden (Northampton Saints) Alex Goode (Saracens) Kyle Eastmond (Bath Rugby) Manusamoa Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers) Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby) Christian Wade (London Wasps) Marland Yarde (London Irish) Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)


England RBS 6 Nations squad (35)

Forwards (18)
David Attwood (Bath Rugby) Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers) Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints) Matt Kvesic (Gloucester Rugby) Tom Johnson (Exeter Chiefs) Joe Launchbury (London Wasps) Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints) Joe Marler (Harlequins) Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby) Matt Mullan (London Wasps) Chris Robshaw (Harlequins) Ed Slater (Leicester Tigers) Henry Thomas (Sale Sharks) Billy Vunipola (Saracens) Mako Vunipola (Saracens) Rob Webber (Bath Rugby) Tom Wood (Northampton Saints) Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Backs (17)
Chris Ashton (Saracens) Brad Barritt (Saracens) Mike Brown (Harlequins) Luther Burrell (Northampton Saints) Danny Care (Harlequins) Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints) Kyle Eastmond (Bath Rugby) Owen Farrell (Saracens) George Ford (Bath Rugby) Alex Goode (Saracens) Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby) Stephen Myler (Northampton Saints) Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs) Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby) Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby) Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens) Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)


England Saxons squad:
Forwards (17): C Clark (Northampton), J Crane (Leicester), P Doran Jones (Harlequins), W Fraser (Saracens), J Haskell (Wasps), T Johnson (Exeter), G Kitchener (Leicester), G Kruis (Saracens), K Myall (Wasps), D Paice (London Irish), G Robson (Harlequins), E Slater (Leicester), H Thomas (Sale), T Waldrom (Leicester), L Wallace (Harlequins), R Webber (Bath), N Wood (Gloucester).

Backs (15): A Allen (Leicester), L Burrell (Northampton), E Daly (Wasps), G Ford (Bath), J Joseph (Bath), J May (Gloucester), U Monye (Harlequins), S Myler (Northampton), J Nowell (Exeter), C Sharples (Gloucester), J Simpson (Wasps), D Strettle (Saracens), M Tait (Leicester), J Tomkins (Saracens), R Wigglesworth (Saracens).

Seriously Thomas and Collier are out too?

Who is going to be back up at TH then?

Tait's not such a big problem if Goode and Brown are fit.

Who is actually left .. Paul Doran-Jones? The young lad at Newcastle, not Wilson the other one?

Scott Wilson is in the saxons... but isnt ready for 6n rugby...but is going to be a fantastic TH.

I'd call up brookes...but thats properly going to screw us at the Falcons...

Perhaps coax Stevens out of retirement.   I jest but with options this thin........

Not a bad shout beshocked .. yep Brookes was who I meant, looks to have some potential

Are Henry Thomas and Will Collier definitely out injured? Looking around the internet I can’t find anything that even suggests Thomas is. I can see that Collier came off the pitch on 23 minutes, but I can’t find any details. Anybody know how bad it is?

GeordieFalcon wrote:Scott Wilson is in the saxons... but isnt ready for 6n rugby...but is going to be a fantastic TH.

I'd call up brookes...but thats properly going to screw us at the Falcons...

It's okay marra, it gives Deano the chance to cast a critical eye over Vickers at tighthead...

 its a frightening thought marra....god knows whats going through Mr Richards head...

Richards is pretty sure you're safe I reckon and thus is testing his options at this level for a tougher next season

Oh theres been some queer selection strategies this season...thats for sure CJ...

GeordieFalcon wrote:Oh theres been some queer selection strategies this season...thats for sure CJ...

Is Barrow injured as i've looked for him in several squads but haven't seen him appear. Just Tomes...

Yeah he is mate. Thats been a blow. If fit he might have even sneaked a Saxons spot the form he was in...

ChequeredJersey wrote:Isn't Tait out too? And added to Wilson is Thomas and now Collier

And so it begins

Not seen anything re: Thomas. Did he leave the pitch? If so we're back to the magnitude of the great '09 Tighthead crisis. Thus our tighthead come the 6N will be Duncan Bell.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Yeah he is mate. Thats been a blow. If fit he might have even sneaked a Saxons spot the form he was in...

Agreed he was looking top class. I saw Kitchener injured on Sat as well so don't know whether he'll be available for the Saxons game, certainly he'd have been in line.

If Thomas is out along with Collier et al then Brookes had better be getting himself ready.

CHj,

That screws us though...2 of our 3 TH's would then be away with England?

What would England do without the little club that is the Newcastle Falcons eh?

There's always PDJ...

I jest, though he looked competent this week

GeordieFalcon wrote:CHj,

That screws us though...2 of our 3 TH's would then be away with England?

What would England do without the little club that is the Newcastle Falcons eh?

Find another development club up North out the way.

We have them...Tynedale and Blaydon.

Maybe get Julian White out of retirement, he never really had a step to lose

Looking at the team of the week selections around, seems as though Jonny May had a stormer at 13 .. perhaps an option for England?

BamBam wrote:Maybe get Julian White out of retirement, he never really had a step to lose

He'd certainly make a good fist of it...

BamBam wrote:Looking at the team of the week selections around, seems as though Jonny May had a stormer at 13 .. perhaps an option for England?

He's always played well there for England U20s and it would mean Lancs could put another FB on the field. I don't honestly think Lancs will go with May in the midfield. No.11 def but I think he's going to ask Burrell to play 13 or a switch arrangement with Barritt.

That would suggest you think he'll drop twelvetrees and start a combo of Barritt and Burrell?

PS, I wouldnt start May at 13...wing yes get him in there.

I think he'll go for the backline of

9.Dickson
10.Farrell
11.May
12.Barritt/36
13.Burrell/36
14.Ashton
15.Brown

Probably what I would pick too.

Last chance saloon for Ashton though.

GeordieFalcon wrote:That would suggest you think he'll drop twelvetrees and start a combo of Barritt and Burrell?

PS, I wouldnt start May at 13...wing yes get him in there.

Yes I think he'll have Barritt in regardless really. Put it this way if you start 12. B Twelvetrees 13. L Burrell then that means Barritt would have to take the 23 shirt assuming it was desirable for him to be included.

That reallt goes against Lancs generally utility bench selections and he won't want to start a Test away in France without Barritt there somewhere. I think he'll go 12. B Barritt 13. L Burrell - it wouldn't be my call but that's what I think he'll pick.

For me i'd perhaps go 12. L Burrell 13. B Twelvetrees for France. He isn't the sort of OC i'd pick but out of the avilable squad I could see that working better than the Autumn combination.

Has Barritt been playing for Sarries? Is he back fit?

Not convinved Barritt and Burrell would be the way to go to solve our midfield problems. Really have no idea who Lancaster is going to go with though.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Not convinved Barritt and Burrell would be the way to go to solve our midfield problems. Really have no idea who Lancaster is going to go with though.

I agree it's becoming the defining issue of the last decade or so. With everyone fit my first choice would be 12. B Twelvetrees 13. M Tuilagi - that has the distribution, power and secondary kicking option which could be a nice balance. Shockingly these guys have never played together for England.

Behind them i'd have Barritt, Burrell and Eastmond at present for the 12 shirt and at 13 Joseph, Trinder and Daly. If Lowe were fit I think he could've made a good alternative case.

In all honesty id have no problem with barritt at 12, if he had some creativity around him at 10 and 13.

Ie
10 Burns / Ford
12 Barritt
13 Daly

Likewise if we're going for the likely option of Farrell at 10 we need more out wide..
Twelvetrees hasnt really set the world alight yet, Burrell is pulling up trees for saints but is he a playmaking 12...and Eastmond seems in and out of the team at Bath.

i'd like to see Eastmond and Daly both really nail their club roles and show us how they can do...but maybe a little too lightweight as a combo for international level.

Of course we have Tuilagi to reutrn eventually which changes the set up yet again.

Its a curious one.

At the moment I wouldn't mind seeing Farrell, Eastmond and Burrell. That'll change by next week though. Is it too much to ask that whoever is picked goes on to nail it?

Twelvetrees and Tuilagi on paper is a great combination, but I don't remember it ever looking that hot at Leicester, even when behind a pretty dominant pack. ( I do realise both players have developed since then).

I might be a little biased, but a combination of Farrell, Eastmond and Tuilagi would be interesting to me, it would have a bit of everything. Having said that, I hope Daly gives a good account of himself in the Saxons, he would be a good option to have on the bench.

I've not been overly impressed with Eastmond this season tbh.

I'd worry about May/Daley defensively at 13, I'd much prefer to see 36/Burrell there.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I've not been overly impressed with Eastmond this season tbh.

I'd worry about May/Daley defensively at 13, I'd much prefer to see 36/Burrell there.

And then we could score another 6 tries in an entire 6N! Yay!

I think we have lots of options...we just need to see those options really hitting form for their clubs. And also having the right balance..of creativity and power.

Surely we can get a good balanced midfield from the following?

10 - Farrell, Burns, Ford, Cipriani, Flood, Myler
12 - Barritt, Burrell, Eastmond, Twelvetrees
13 - Tuilagi, Daly, Joseph, Lowe, Tomkins

And thats not including some of the other youngsters coming through....

Daly seems to be a good technical defender, and will more often than not put his man down, I would only worry about him defensively if they had the big carriers regularly piling down his channel, which they wouldn't as much at 13.

Great offensive talent though

Not seen a great deal of Eastmond but looked good at the weekend/back end of last week. Think we need to consider what our centres are doing offensively a little more though as it's killing both the midfield and wings.

BamBam wrote:Daly seems to be a good technical defender, and will more often than not put his man down, I would only worry about him defensively if they had the big carriers regularly piling down his channel, which they wouldn't as much at 13.

Great offensive talent though

Plus a potentially useful emergency kicker, could help Ford if he had to come on

Thats the biggest thing 7 1/2

Our strategy seems so focused on stopping others playing...and defence,  we have totally missed the point that offence is just as critical...let the opposition worry about what WE ARE doing with the ball....

I would hope Daly is working on his goal kicking, could help him stand out from the pack, especially as Ford is making a push for selection.

We lack outside backs who can also kick at goal, would definitely be a good option.

Oh yes, and he also needs to go back to 13 full time!!

GeordieFalcon wrote:I think we have lots of options...we just need to see those options really hitting form for their clubs. And also having the right balance..of creativity and power.

Surely we can get a good balanced midfield from the following?

10 - Farrell, Burns, Ford, Cipriani, Flood, Myler
12 - Barritt, Burrell, Eastmond, Twelvetrees
13 - Tuilagi, Daly, Joseph, Lowe, Tomkins

And thats not including some of the other youngsters coming through....

That's always the issue we have, too much choice and no obvious top class option (bar Manu)

I rate Daly very highly but I think he's a FB. I'm
Unsure he'd be positionally sound as he rarely plays 13. I think he could be a WC FB tho

See I completely disagree. I think he has all that skills to play 13, more so than fullback. He's quick, that doesn't mean he should play fullback, but apparently due to injury Wasps needed him to play fullback

ChequeredJersey wrote:See I completely disagree. I think he has all that skills to play 13, more so than fullback. He's quick, that doesn't mean he should play fullback, but apparently due to injury Wasps needed him to play fullback

I agree he has that step and go on the outside, excellent pace and also offer a defensive/offensive kicking option. Moreover he's played a lot of 13 and perhaps most saliently of all it's where he wants to play!

GeordieFalcon wrote:In all honesty id have no problem with barritt at 12, if he had some creativity around him at 10 and 13.

Ie
10 Burns / Ford
12 Barritt
13 Daly

Likewise if we're going for the likely option of Farrell at 10 we need more out wide..
Twelvetrees hasnt really set the world alight yet, Burrell is pulling up trees for saints but is he a playmaking 12...and Eastmond seems in and out of the team at Bath.

i'd like to see Eastmond and Daly both really nail their club roles and show us how they can do...but maybe a little too lightweight as a combo for international level.

Of course we have Tuilagi to reutrn eventually which changes the set up yet again.

Its a curious one.

I see what you're saying GF but to be honest at present that backline would look better with Burrell at 12. Barritt is an awesome defensive and rucking player but doesn't carry well enough to be a JDV sort of player, which frankly seems to be what's required at present.

The problem is that none of the contenders for the 13 shirt have been tearing it up in the AP.

There is no candidate who stands out because none of them have been that good.

13 is an area we need someone to put their hand up. 15 is not. Both Brown and Goode are in decent form, when Foden's back he'll also be in the mix.

Daly should focus on 13 because there is a Manu shaped hole that someone must fill.

I think one of the Wasps fans on here said that their top 2 FBs were injured, and they had plenty of centres so it made sense to put him there.

Could work out well in the long run, gives him experience in another position, testing him defensively, under the high ball and kicking etc. Hopefully will add another dimension to his skillset for the centre position, particularly as a kicking option as he has a massive boot

beshocked wrote:The problem is that none of the contenders for the 13 shirt have been tearing it up in the AP.

There is no candidate who stands out because none of them have been that good.

13 is an area we need someone to put their hand up. 15 is not. Both Brown and Goode are in decent form, when Foden's back he'll also be in the mix.

Daly should focus on 13 because there is a Manu shaped hole that someone must fill.

Agreed, there's been no real stand-out individuals. Trinder showed some good skills at the start of the season but has been injured, Joseph hasn't looked at his best for a season and a half but doesn't seem to be going too badly at present. Aside from that there's no one demanding inclusion and that's why I think we'll see Barritt straight back in. Is that the best way to have selection though?!

I think we'll see Burrell and Twelvetrees, both just switching on different plays, and attack and defence.

Barritt's not a 13 though.

You have 3 12s - 36,Burrell and Barritt who could warrant starting at 12.

No 13s who I would feel that comfortable with starting.

chjw131 it's hardly as if Joseph and Trinder are excelling though.

beshocked wrote:Barritt's not a 13 though.

You have 3 12s - 36,Burrell and Barritt who could warrant starting at 12.

No 13s who I would feel that comfortable with starting.

chjw131 it's hardly as if Joseph and Trinder are excelling though.

I agree there's been no EQ stand-out OC. I also agree that Barritt isn't a 13 but I think he'll be brought in a 12 and Burrell asked to play OC which I don't think is particularly fair on the lad.

chjw131 what do you suggest then?

Barritt was pretty successful at 13 vs Scotland and Ireland last 6 nations. I think he might be picked there again.