The State of The Forum - better or worse?

[JuliusHMarx]

First topic message reminder :

It wasn't long ago that were rumblings and mutterings among the chattering classes (that's you) that the forum was a bit bland and sterile, that debate was being stifled and apathy and discontent was setting in. There was even mutinous talk that this was in some part due to the behaviour of your wise and glorious rulers (that's laverfan and myself).

Now everything seems to be back to the halcyon days of yore with bickering, banter, back-stabbing and behind-biting.

So it would actually be useful, I think, for laverfan and myself to know which is preferable to your good selves. The current lively, spicy, on-the-edge feel to the place. Or the somewhat meditative, relaxed, coffee-house ambience of early winter? The more we know about your preferences the more likely LF and I are not to get it hideously wrong and ruin it for everyone.

PM us if you'd prefer - you can name names that way

[Jahu]

How do I know its not true?

How do you know the alleged rigging of awards is true?

Etc etc etc etc etc etc.

We're all just having a free flow conversation, let's not get all truthfull and emotinal now.

It's tennis forum

Are you female or male?

[It Must Be Love]

I'm male

I didn't say the awards are rigged... just manipulated with public advertising campaigns

You can ask temp or any of the admin, I did not ask for another thread.

[Jahu]

I will not ask, see, everyone has a right to imagine things or believe on things that we want

So are you a Nadal fan?

And has it become a "love" for sure or is it "must" be Love still for you and not found out yet?

[It Must Be Love]

Yes I'm a Nadal fan

My username is from a US Open slogan. I chose it because I thought its an answer for many questions. It's nothing to do with any athlete or sport in particular really.

[kingraf]

My girlfriend doesn't feel threatened by your flirting with me Jahu, so you're obviously not doing a good job.

[Jahu]

King, agree, I'm a bit poor on that department, thought I try hard, so forgive my performance on that

[Jahu]

Yes I'm a Nadal fan

My username is from a US Open slogan. I chose it because I thought its an answer for many questions. It's nothing to do with any athlete or sport in particular really.

Nice, was it from SKY for USO that slogan I think, this year?

[It Must Be Love]

Yes I'm a Nadal fan

My username is from a US Open slogan. I chose it because I thought its an answer for many questions. It's nothing to do with any athlete or sport in particular really.

Nice, was it from SKY for USO that slogan I think, this year?

It's always the slogan.

Maybe subliminally that is why USO is my favourite tournament, if so that's a pretty shallow reason, but who knows

[Jahu]

Yes this year SKY had that lady singing.

Thought I love this 2010 review of SKY Sports for USO https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8x2R8NFqCuM

[laverfan]

A lesson for you, but then again I'm here to just bash Djoko and flirt with people, (especially LF, that I'm trying to convince her with my cooking skills, since my speach ain;t doing it).

Your speech and culinary skills are both excellent. I have no complaints.

I agree with Lydian, BB, SoCal and others that some spice is needed, "needle" as Agassi would say. JHM, T2 and I try not be overzealous and may even participate in occasional banter. JHM/HMM's "Goffin" pants was hilarious, IMVHO.

I like all the players. In the current crop, I like the underdog Ferrer, a tiny shade more, if someone will twist my arm. I also prefer retired players, so it is less likely to cause biases.

[temporary21]

Spice is cool, I like some coriander. The Haddie incident sort of spice though is way too much for my liking

[temporary21]

To clear something up. I opened the second head up of my own accord. IMBL didnt even ask I decided to because LF felt guilty of adding fuel to the off topic stuff on the previous one, soo I thought as a mod team we'd make amends by putting a serious one up.

[JuliusHMarx]

LF is out of control

[Jahu]

Is it my cooking?

Lets not derail this thread too, so many rails this week, feels like a Euston station.

[laverfan]

LF is out of control

The lunatic is in my head
The lunatic is in my head
You raise the blade, you make the change
You re-arrange me 'till I'm sane
You lock the door
And throw away the key
There's someone in my head but it's not me.

Thanks to PF.

[JubbaIsle]

Got a response email, so thought I'd drop my penny in the mush.

I've found over the years, that impartiality is just one ingredient of a successful recipe for mediation.

One can have a favourite player and still moderate fairly within the forums ideals.

What is also needed is the ability to allow a few banterish comments go, whilst maintaining the flow and stopping the thread from getting too personal. Sometimes I have bitten my tongue/keyboard and let stuff carry on, only for it to get heated and rather nasty. Other times its worked and the solution can been provided by the contributors, mostly by ignoring the troll or wum and either letting the thread die for a while or continuing on without taking any notice of the perpetrators of crime.

Its not all plain sailing and it can be a bumpy ride, but as long as everyone is aware of the pitfalls of an open forum, it can be a rewarding place to mingle. The old adage, "Dont feed the trolls" is a good one, but I have always fancied aiming a few kicks at the trolls, alas, thats being one as well.

[Jahu]

So dont be shy, give us a kick, not seen you some time

[socal1976]

The state of the forum is good we just need some spice, some bitter battles resulting in temporary bans. I myself have been banned on at least three occasions my tennis posts are like 2 live Crew Rap videos in Florida.

[socal1976]

Wait, check that 4 times.

[temporary21]

Well I mean I have two jobs really
1) Promote a forum where people can discuss freely things that arent libellous or downright offensive, without being obstructed or belittled for doing soo.
2) Make sure nobody is abused, bullied or otherwise feel unwelcome or unsafe on the forum

Banters good, it keeps things from being too formal, but it has gotten nasty a few times soo its a difficult balancing act.

[Jahu]

Wait, check that 4 times.

Yes, but yours have been 3 days, mine 7 days, as JHM is jealous of my flirting with others

[Jahu]

Temp21, get e permanent name man, so when you become 22 you will change your name again to Temp22?

[JubbaIsle]

Well, if spicing up a forum means having bitter battles then I'm not a fan, not really into that any more, get more fun out of constructive sarcasm without the bile.

I remember the fun wums, had some huge laughs at either their stupidity or cleverness. Clever trolls are the worst nightmare, worm their way in and attack from the inside. A slow death ensues.

[DirectView2]

The problem is everybody likes to bully and gang others but when they get ganged they mourn whim , cry and yell back as if they were tortured in the boiling chamber.

Its just a forum and the brainless bullies should be ashamed of themselves who ever it is, they only have to change by themselves cause no forum Admin, mod, or for that sake anybody can change them.

For me the state of forum always remained the same, be it past present and will remain the same in the future as well.

If its not your cup of tea you just need to move on, that is the best favor one can do to themselves.

[Guest]

I don't think spicing up means bitter battles. Any criticism of any player should be accepted just like the praise is. It shouldn't be sheltered from it.

[Haddie-nuff]

1) Promote a forum where people can discuss freely things that arent libellous or downright offensive, without being obstructed or belittled for doing soo.
2) Make sure nobody is abused, bullied or otherwise feel unwelcome or unsafe on the forum
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I hold with this and if everyone stuck to that then this would be a great place to be

[DirectView2]

1) Promote a forum where people can discuss freely things that arent libellous or downright offensive, without being obstructed or belittled for doing soo.
2) Make sure nobody is abused, bullied or otherwise feel unwelcome or unsafe on the forum
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I hold with this and if everyone stuck to that then this would be a great place to be

If everyone stuck to it yes without a doubt it will be a great place, but sorry my friend everybody including you and me at times posted just to hurt somebody

[Jahu]

Unsafe, bullied, unwelcome, abused, do these really have anything to do with a tennis forum? How would these be possible in a Forum, when you have the X button at the top of the browser to close it and save your "life"?

Those are all British inventions after they lost the Empire and have nothing to do with online forum

On a more serious note, I belive a limited dose of spanking, does wake up and settle people down in a online community.

Lets all be nasty sometimes, especially when no Tennis os going on, proven it raises the quality of life

[Haddie-nuff]

1) Promote a forum where people can discuss freely things that arent libellous or downright offensive, without being obstructed or belittled for doing soo.
2) Make sure nobody is abused, bullied or otherwise feel unwelcome or unsafe on the forum
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I hold with this and if everyone stuck to that then this would be a great place to be

If everyone stuck to it  yes without a doubt it will be a great place, but sorry my friend everybody including you and me at times posted just to hurt somebody

I am not getting into this DV I have not done anything DELIBERATELY to hurt anyone.. I have, hurt maybe,  but if so unwittingly. In which case
I have NEVER EVER called anyone the names I was called recently.. I would never subject anyone to that kind of abuse.. I have been encouraged to come back to the forum in the hope I can put it all behind me and move on. Though feeling somewhat bruised by the experience Im trying.
I will not, if you will excuse me, discuss the matter further  .. maybe too much too soon eh

[JubbaIsle]

The old "Freedom of Speech" argument doesn't hold much water these days, as its not the Dark Internet we are gathered in. Respect is the top word and all it requires is thought. Take a few seconds to "think" about what you are going to say and not spew forth every single thought before it has time to brew.

I dont mean squeaky clean, prim and proper conversation, but at least provide a space where everyone can contribute in a constructive way. If that means a little rib tickling and casual asides, then fine, a bit of innuendo and sarcasm never hurt anyone, we all are adults and should be able to parry and thrust (ahem) in confidence that no insults were intended.

I'm sure most of you know each others online personality by now and can revel in each others jokey nature and just get on with it.



Smileys are important though, when you're new to a forum.

[laverfan]

@JubbaIsle... please stay and hang out on v2.

[DirectView2]

1) Promote a forum where people can discuss freely things that arent libellous or downright offensive, without being obstructed or belittled for doing soo.
2) Make sure nobody is abused, bullied or otherwise feel unwelcome or unsafe on the forum
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I hold with this and if everyone stuck to that then this would be a great place to be

If everyone stuck to it  yes without a doubt it will be a great place, but sorry my friend everybody including you and me at times posted just to hurt somebody

I am not getting into this DV I have not done anything DELIBERATELY to hurt anyone.. I have, hurt maybe,  but if so unwittingly. In which case
I have NEVER EVER called anyone the names I was called recently.. I would never subject anyone to that kind of abuse.. I have been encouraged to come back to the forum in the hope I can put it all behind me and move on. Though feeling somewhat bruised by the experience Im trying.
I will not, if you will excuse me, discuss the matter further  .. maybe too much too soon eh

No I wasn't talking about you Haddie, i generalized to be frank, all I meant is everybody make mistakes intentionally or unintentionally , but sometimes people take effort to solve it and sometimes don't.

After all its just an internet forum, so if somebody doesn't like something the best thing they can do to themselves is move on from the forum, in your case you seem to be happy with the forum which is a nice sign.

[JubbaIsle]

Hi Laverfan.

If I had the time, I'd be on here a lot more, but job, family and other past times dictate my freedom to contribute.

I'll try to drop in as much as possible though, thanks for the invite.

[Haddie-nuff]

1) Promote a forum where people can discuss freely things that arent libellous or downright offensive, without being obstructed or belittled for doing soo.
2) Make sure nobody is abused, bullied or otherwise feel unwelcome or unsafe on the forum
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I hold with this and if everyone stuck to that then this would be a great place to be

If everyone stuck to it  yes without a doubt it will be a great place, but sorry my friend everybody including you and me at times posted just to hurt somebody

I am not getting into this DV I have not done anything DELIBERATELY to hurt anyone.. I have, hurt maybe,  but if so unwittingly. In which case
I have NEVER EVER called anyone the names I was called recently.. I would never subject anyone to that kind of abuse.. I have been encouraged to come back to the forum in the hope I can put it all behind me and move on. Though feeling somewhat bruised by the experience Im trying.
I will not, if you will excuse me, discuss the matter further  .. maybe too much too soon eh

No I wasn't talking about you Haddie, i generalized to be frank, all I meant is everybody make mistakes intentionally or unintentionally , but sometimes people take effort to solve it and sometimes don't.

After all its just an internet forum, so if somebody doesn't like something the best thing they can do to themselves is move on from the forum, in your case you seem to be happy with the forum which is a nice sign.

Ok DV thanks .. I understand

Incidentally Jubbaisle I love that smiley... Who hasn't been caught with their pants down.. erhem

[laverfan]

All language is prone to occasional misinterpretation of words and can be easily misconstrued. Political correctness vs stating one's opinion can be challenging in a forum, despite emoticons.

The sport we love is made of many personalities and our proclivities of identification with one or another player can put us at odds occasionally.

Counting till 10 and 10 deep breaths are highly recommended to lower BP and stress.

[laverfan]

I'll try to drop in as much as possible though, thanks for the invite.

Thanks, JI.

[temporary21]

Temp21, get e permanent name man, so when you become 22 you will change your name again to Temp22?

Its not my age, its my favourite number. Im 24

[temporary21]

On a serious note, misconceptions and misinterpretations happen as do people getting in a tizz, but there is a line in the sand where it goes far beyond just a bit of fun. Cyber bullying is a thing, it IS on a tennis forum, because it HAS been on it.

It doesn't matter if theres an x in the corner, it was still said and it still hurts, whats important to remember is a forum doesnt consist of multiple versions of the same person, you might be able to shake it off, but someone else, maybe younger, in a different position, maybe more vulnerable might not be able to. When adding the spice, that is something very important to remember.

It also has no place on any forum worth its salt, and its an important moderating job that it doesn't happen in fact its the most important by far.

Just bear it in mind, nothing me of LF or JHM do is ever meant as disrespect, it is to uphold that rule.

[Born Slippy]

It has to be said that humour is going out of the forum in buckets.

I'll be frank. The reason the 2 mods worked so well was because they have no personal bias to any of the top players. That is a great recipe for effective moderation. However, you bring someone on board that has a bias to a certain player, and we get a trigger happy mod. I should know because I was once a mod and Jubba Isle before me was and it makes moderation the more difficult if you support a current player. Posters believe that you will protect that player and posters from views that disagree with them and put their favourite player in a negative light. This isn't a personal attack or anything. Just advice. If want debate, allow it.

As a move villain once said: Why So Serious?

I think Falzy is an excellent mod addition. Whilst both JHM and Laver have done an excellent job, they both have a clear preference for Fed over Nadal. Given that the battle between those two players tends to often be the heated issue on a tennis forum, having someone slightly on the other side of the fence gives a more balanced feel to the mod team.

That thread had gone way off-topic albeit in amusing fashion. Good decision to create a new thread to allow the actual point being raised to be discussed.

[Guest]

It has to be said that humour is going out of the forum in buckets.

I'll be frank. The reason the 2 mods worked so well was because they have no personal bias to any of the top players. That is a great recipe for effective moderation. However, you bring someone on board that has a bias to a certain player, and we get a trigger happy mod. I should know because I was once a mod and Jubba Isle before me was and it makes moderation the more difficult if you support a current player. Posters believe that you will protect that player and posters from views that disagree with them and put their favourite player in a negative light. This isn't a personal attack or anything. Just advice. If want debate, allow it.

As a move villain once said: Why So Serious?

I think Falzy is an excellent mod addition. Whilst both JHM and Laver have done an excellent job, they both have a clear preference for Fed over Nadal. Given that the battle between those two players tends to often be the heated issue on a tennis forum, having someone slightly on the other side of the fence gives a more balanced feel to the mod team.

That thread had gone way off-topic albeit in amusing fashion. Good decision to create a new thread to allow the actual point being raised to be discussed.

I don't think they have a clear preference at all. Not saying Falzy isn't doing a good job.

I will call the thread what it was and that was another lets demean an award Federer wins because his "rival" never wins given his popularity in numbers. Now where did that discussion end up going? People beating their heads against the wall because of motives being retracted and regurgitated in different words. Just no need for it.

Simply if the thread was the other way around and aimed at Nadal it would've been "oh look another anti Nadal thread"

So please if posters don't like it when their fav player is under the cosh, don't do it to others.

[It Must Be Love]

Simply if the thread was the other way around and aimed at Nadal it would've been "oh look another anti Nadal thread"

So please if posters don't like it when their fav player is under the cosh, don't do it to others.

It is so obvious you didn't actually bother reading the OP.
Firstly yesterday you asked questions which I had already addressed in the OP of the first thread itself.
And secondly this comment now. Please LK, read what I write, and then try and back up your claims.
I said I estimated Federer would have won the award anyway, even without Moët's help, I explained why the fact Nadal has more Facebook fans doesn't mean he's necessarily more popular due the factors such as demographics, and I also had a go at Nadal fans- saying it was fitting Federer won the award because I feel some Nadal fans like Nadal because they find him attractive and not tennis, and thus are less likely to be on the ATP site (thus I estimated Fed would win polls on the ATP website).

As soon as I wrote the OP, I was curious; would people actually bother reading the piece or just read the title and fire off with criticism regardless of the facts ?

[It Must Be Love]

I don't think they have a clear preference at all. Not saying Falzy isn't doing a good job.

If you had let me sent the love letter Jahu predicted via PM, this would have been cleared up

[Guest]

IMBL let's be honest with this. You are in danger of entering HE territory. You call into question the integrity of an award and then try to play devils advocate by insisting the intention is not the play on words it appears to be. I would sooner you stuck to your original position and not go around the houses and end up back at the original position you stood.

I like you as a poster, I do. However I find it frustrating probably like others when you take a stance and then it is refuted or argued by others you do a 180 and try to take a different position that isn't there with the original one you took. Sometimes trying to be too smart is not a good idea. You might think words mean different things, but in the end they all end up being relative.

With all this turning and twisting you make yourself and others dizzy!!! : hug:

[Born Slippy]

It has to be said that humour is going out of the forum in buckets.

I'll be frank. The reason the 2 mods worked so well was because they have no personal bias to any of the top players. That is a great recipe for effective moderation. However, you bring someone on board that has a bias to a certain player, and we get a trigger happy mod. I should know because I was once a mod and Jubba Isle before me was and it makes moderation the more difficult if you support a current player. Posters believe that you will protect that player and posters from views that disagree with them and put their favourite player in a negative light. This isn't a personal attack or anything. Just advice. If want debate, allow it.

As a move villain once said: Why So Serious?

I think Falzy is an excellent mod addition. Whilst both JHM and Laver have done an excellent job, they both have a clear preference for Fed over Nadal. Given that the battle between those two players tends to often be the heated issue on a tennis forum, having someone slightly on the other side of the fence gives a more balanced feel to the mod team.

That thread had gone way off-topic albeit in amusing fashion. Good decision to create a new thread to allow the actual point being raised to be discussed.

I don't think they have a clear preference at all. Not saying Falzy isn't doing a good job.

I will call the thread what it was and that was another lets demean an award Federer wins because his "rival" never wins given his popularity in numbers. Now where did that discussion end up going? People beating their heads against the wall because of motives being retracted and regurgitated in different words. Just no need for it.

Simply if the thread was the other way around and aimed at Nadal it would've been "oh look another anti Nadal thread"

So please if posters don't like it when their fav player is under the cosh, don't do it to others.

Well, I suspect if asked they would both say they prefer Fed to Nadal. I don't think they make any secret of that. I think both moderate completely fairly but having someone with a slightly different viewpoint makes sense.

Had the thread been aimed at Nadal I doubt it would have been taken off-topic in the way that it was. If Rafa had won, say, the sportsmanship award then I am sure there would have been several threads generated in relation to it. I don't see why Fed should be treated differently.

[JuliusHMarx]

I think it's fairly clear I prefer Murray to both of them. Fed and Rafa both have their positives & negatives (as does Murray). Outside of the tennis arena both Fed and Rafa seem equally nice well-adjusted people. In tennis matters (on & off court) I find Fed to be better behaved overall. Does that mean I have a 'clear preference' for him?

[Guest]

I think it's fairly clear I prefer Murray to both of them. Fed and Rafa both have their positives & negatives (as does Murray). Outside of the tennis arena both Fed and Rafa seem equally nice well-adjusted people. In tennis matters (on & off court) I find Fed to be better behaved overall. Does that mean I have a 'clear preference' for him?

Apparently it does

[It Must Be Love]

You call into question the integrity of an award and then try to play devils advocate by insisting the intention is not the play on words it appears to be. I would sooner you stuck to your original position and not go around the houses and end up back at the original position you stood.

No because it's clear you didn't actually read my originally OP in full, and instead had a go at me without carefully reading what I was writing.
I'm not questioning that Federer is a very popular player, I knew that without the ATP poll, but the fact is I think it's right to point out that the sponsor of the poll was actively campaigning to give the tennis player they sponsored a better chance of winning. If people don't want to comment on that thread, then they don't have to.

I like you as a poster, I do. However I find it frustrating probably like others when you take a stance and then it is refuted or argued by others you do a 180 and try to take a different position that isn't there with the original one you took.

Refuted ? What !
None of the claims I made in my original OP have even been attempted to be refuted, and btw I stick behind that piece 110%. The only issue has been people misinterpreting what I'm saying (I think some people who only read the title and didn't actually read the article thought I was saying they changed the numbers itself after the results were in), but even for people who did misinterpret what I said, I immediately clarified.

[temporary21]

IMBL let's be honest with this. You are in danger of entering HE territory. You call into question the integrity of an award and then try to play devils advocate by insisting the intention is not the play on words it appears to be. I would sooner you stuck to your original position and not go around the houses and end up back at the original position you stood.

I like you as a poster, I do. However I find it frustrating probably like others when you take a stance and then it is refuted or argued by others you do a 180 and try to take a different position that isn't there with the original one you took. Sometimes trying to be too smart is not a good idea. You might think words mean different things, but in the end they all end up being relative.

With all this turning and twisting you make yourself and others dizzy!!! : hug:

Firstly LK this post exists only to criticise IMBL, which is off topic, and frankly not relevant. Its also clearly not funny either.
Now

Just because you dont like a topic or think its not worth talking about does not, at any point, mean that you can demand that noone else can talk about it. I didnt like the "hate Djokovic thread much", but I will darn well defend people right to have a thread talking about stuff they find annoying about him. I would defend people right to have a "things about Federer/Nadal" thread for the same reason. You dont like the topic? Whilst thats a shame, if it isnt abusive or libellous then people have a right to discuss it, and you can just ignore it. Its not your right to go on it, derail it, and then criticise the OP for perceived inconsistency.

Furthermore, the serious version of the thread you dislike, wasnt made by IMBL, or focused on Federer. I made it and it focused on the conflict of interest in ATP award sponsorship. Dont care? Fine, but in that case let others discuss it without being pre judged by someone sho sees the discussion as somehow beneath them.

Now I apologise for the harshness of the post, but that is how a forum works, not everything is for you, but hey, we segment it soo you dont even have to see that part. Now lets all bury the hatchet, and go back to Goffins pants.

[Guest]

IMBL let's be honest with this. You are in danger of entering HE territory. You call into question the integrity of an award and then try to play devils advocate by insisting the intention is not the play on words it appears to be. I would sooner you stuck to your original position and not go around the houses and end up back at the original position you stood.

I like you as a poster, I do. However I find it frustrating probably like others when you take a stance and then it is refuted or argued by others you do a 180 and try to take a different position that isn't there with the original one you took. Sometimes trying to be too smart is not a good idea. You might think words mean different things, but in the end they all end up being relative.

With all this turning and twisting you make yourself and others dizzy!!! : hug:

Firstly LK this post exists only to criticise IMBL, which is off topic, and frankly not relevant. Its also clearly not funny either.
Now

Just because you dont like a topic or think its not worth talking about does not, at any point, mean that you can demand that noone else can talk about it. I didnt like the "hate Djokovic thread much", but I will darn well defend people right to have a thread talking about stuff they find annoying about him. I would defend people right to have a "things about Federer/Nadal" thread for the same reason. You dont like the topic? Whilst thats a shame, if it isnt abusive or libellous then people have a right to discuss it, and you can just ignore it. Its not your right to go on it, derail it, and then criticise the OP for perceived inconsistency.

Furthermore, the serious version of the thread you dislike, wasnt made by IMBL, or focused on Federer. I made it and it focused on the conflict of interest in ATP award sponsorship. Dont care? Fine, but in that case let others discuss it without being pre judged by someone sho sees the discussion as somehow beneath them.

Now I apologise for the harshness of the post, but that is how a forum works, not everything is for you, but hey, we segment it soo you dont even have to see that part. Now lets all bury the hatchet, and go back to Goffins pants.

Where did I say the forum should pander?

This post fully proves my point I made originally so I thank you for that

[temporary21]

Well I have no interest in getting into a semantics argument with you LKv2, thats the rub and its my job and I will moderate to that effect. If you break those rules you might find more of your posts being deleted, and thats the end of that. It doesnt take a genius to figure out when people are having fun, or having a go, and your deleted post was not humour, it was an attempt to derail the topic, and was as such deleted.

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