OH MY WORD!!!

by DeludedOptimistorjustDave Wed 29 Jan 2014, 9:28 pm

I just can't get over the reaction from the England fans regarding the dropping of Ashton.
When we all pointed out he can't defend we were slapped down and dismissed as jealous,then we had talk of him being a Lion becoming the worlds leading try scorer and possibly he could be the second coming of the Messiah.
You fickle fickle bunch, now Lancaster has picked a couple of unproven nobody's for the wing they seem to be the flavor of the month , honestly i predict Mike Brown being out of favour with you lot by the end of the year WATCH THIS SPACE!

Then we look at Toby Flood being given the real cold shoulder,Lancaster is a fool! Flood is a very very good flyhalf who can adapt to kick territory or attack ,but Farrell wow the lad is pretty crap and has his Dad to thank for so much.

France by 10 or more points.
Peace out.

by DeludedOptimistorjustDave Wed 29 Jan 2014, 9:34 pm

Forgot to mention Youngs being dropped!WTF?

Dickson will box kick all day to some of the best counter attacking backs in world rugby and Care will get carded.

Youngs is a far better and stronger scrum half.

Just left scratching my head.

by Scratch Wed 29 Jan 2014, 10:05 pm

Ben Youngs?

Who?

On another thread Nowell - who has no caps- has already been hailed as a member of the Team of the Tournament. The guy is so good he doesn't even need to play.

It will be the massive back track next week that I am looking forward to.

by DeludedOptimistorjustDave Wed 29 Jan 2014, 10:16 pm

Don't forget Nowell played a World Cup final in a field at Colwyn Bay, Paris will be but a doddle because of this.

by Breadvan Wed 29 Jan 2014, 10:27 pm

Well thanks for the concern but I don't know what thread your reading? Eng fans have been saying Ashton's defence is pants for the last year, Youngs is out of form. Shock horror, how dare we support SL! I'd archive your reactions when you went on that losing streak in 2012. That's fickle. If you lot would put as much passion into Wales than you do slating England....

by DeludedOptimistorjustDave Wed 29 Jan 2014, 10:32 pm

Archive away

by Scrumpy Wed 29 Jan 2014, 10:34 pm

I'm sure Ashton will take comfort that he scored the greatest try HQ has ever seen Very Happy

by DeludedOptimistorjustDave Wed 29 Jan 2014, 10:43 pm

Scrumpy wrote:I'm sure Ashton will take comfort that he scored the greatest try HQ has ever seen

I agree he did score the greatest try for an English man ever at Twickers,but it ain't that hard to top an Underwood clear run in is it? kiss

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WymtGS2vsk

always thought that was a pretty good one against the World champs and all.

by GloriousEmpire Wed 29 Jan 2014, 11:04 pm

Yes we heard that Foden, Ashton and Brown formed the most formidable back three in world rugby at one point. Now two thirds of that set have been jettisoned and during their tenure England have fallen to fourth in the rankings.

Now I've been called "anti-English" and a WUM for pointing out the truth about these players many a time, and it would be nice when the pendulum swings thus that there might atleast be some acknowledgement that my criticisms were valid.

by quinsforever Wed 29 Jan 2014, 11:30 pm

Read the England squad thread. It's approx 10:1 in favour of dropping Ashton.

Form is not eternal.

by GloriousEmpire Wed 29 Jan 2014, 11:35 pm

Yes, so "sorry GE, you were right all along". Reading between the lines. "Not an anti-English WUM at all as it turns out, but a voice of objective perspective and sanity amidst an hysterical reaction to a single try against Australia and half a dozen against Italy"

by quinsforever Wed 29 Jan 2014, 11:41 pm

Let's be honest, wingers are rarely the deciding factor, especially or England, especially when it's wet.

The fact this discussion is happening I take as a real positive about the England pack.

by Guest Thu 30 Jan 2014, 12:00 am

GE, you know what your problem is? You talk too much sense about stuff you have no right to talk sense about. Stick to the ABs pal!!

by thomh Thu 30 Jan 2014, 12:27 am

GloriousEmpire wrote:Yes we heard that Foden, Ashton and Brown formed the most formidable back three in world rugby at one point. Now two thirds of that set have been jettisoned and during their tenure England have fallen to fourth in the rankings.

Straw man argument. They've only ever played three games together (away to SA in 2012, home to Arg and NZ in 2013), and only the SA game wasn't prompted by injuries. The reaction to Foden's selection on the wing was bad every time, and by those two Autumn 2013 matches almost everyone, including Lancaster, was saying Ashton should be dropped (if Wade and Yarde hadn't been out). Foden is injured anyway, not jettisoned.

During the Autumn our ranking fell by 0.06 points, from 85.76 to 85.70. Hardly the collapse you're trying to spin it as.

by GloriousEmpire Thu 30 Jan 2014, 1:10 am

Sounds like there was never much belief in them as a trio then.

by doctor_grey Thu 30 Jan 2014, 2:10 am

GloriousEmpire wrote:Yes we heard that Foden, Ashton and Brown formed the most formidable back three in world rugby at one point......

You were hanging around with Ashton's gram again? Methinks she would be the only one who talked like that. Got to be careful with women like that..........

by munkian Thu 30 Jan 2014, 8:35 am

DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:
Scrumpy wrote:I'm sure Ashton will take comfort that he scored the greatest try HQ has ever seen
I agree he did score the greatest try for an English man ever at Twickers,but it ain't that hard to top an Underwood clear run in is it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WymtGS2vsk

always thought that was a pretty good one against the World champs and all.

Pretty sure Scot Williams did that...

by thomh Thu 30 Jan 2014, 8:43 am

GloriousEmpire wrote:Sounds like there was never much belief in them as a trio then.

Interesting point. The complete opposite of the point you made in your previous post, but interesting.

by Geordie Thu 30 Jan 2014, 8:49 am

Great thread...well done clap

by gatlandgun Thu 30 Jan 2014, 8:59 am

Alternatively I talked up North in early 2010 and Halfpenny in 2008 and people said I was crazy or "give the boy a chance" "don't build them up for them not to live up to hype" etc etc

Those players were born superstars before they even put on a Wales shirt and they've only ever gone and got better and better.

by ChequeredJersey Thu 30 Jan 2014, 9:02 am

Mods, is there any space for a thread that is solely commenting on other threads?

by jimmyinthewell68 Thu 30 Jan 2014, 9:13 am

i wonder how many caps lancaster handed out since becoming England coach . gatland seems to keep the same team whether they in form or not . only injures seems to bring in New players .

by beshocked Thu 30 Jan 2014, 9:13 am

Deluded you have such an appropriate name.

Most England fans are pleased that Ashton was dropped.

Calling Farrell Jr crap? Laugh

Deluded indeed. Farrell Jr is the 2nd best 10 taking part in the 6 nations after Sexton.

Unfortunately with Flood whenever he got an opportunity to prove his worth he did not deliver under Lancaster - Italy game last season was a good example.

by gatlandgun Thu 30 Jan 2014, 9:14 am

Gatland picks the same team? Yes he does.

Why would you change a winning team?

by Toadfish Thu 30 Jan 2014, 9:16 am

Scratch wrote:Ben Youngs?

Who?

On another thread Nowell - who has no caps- has already been hailed as a member of the Team of the Tournament. The guy is so good he doesn't even need to play.

It will be the massive back track next week that I am looking forward to.

This is brilliant. Welshman makes claim on one thread. Other welshman complains about it on a different thread.

by munkian Thu 30 Jan 2014, 9:18 am

Toadfish wrote:
Scratch wrote:Ben Youngs?

Who?

On another thread Nowell - who has no caps- has already been hailed as a member of the Team of the Tournament. The guy is so good he doesn't even need to play.

It will be the massive back track next week that I am looking forward to.

This is brilliant. Welshman makes claim on one thread. Other welshman complains about it on a different thread.

Yes, because we all think the same, we are legion, for we are many Rolling Eyes

by munkian Thu 30 Jan 2014, 9:23 am

jimmyinthewell68 wrote:i wonder how many caps lancaster handed out since becoming England coach . gatland seems to keep the same team whether they in form or not . only injures seems to bring in New players .

We capped young promising players years ago - which is why are squad isn't much older than yours yet they have lots of experience.

And yeah, why would he change an established team with established combinations ? You still don't have an established 9/10, centre partnership or wingers.

Are you seriously playing two uncapped winners in France because Lancaster is such a free thinking Maverick or because everyone else with some experience is either injured or in poor form ?

by beshocked Thu 30 Jan 2014, 9:31 am

Well actually munkian your pack is a bit older than ours - certainly your frontrow anyway.

Our pack is actually taking shape very nicely. You know a pack is looking good when the only argument is whether Marler or Vunipola start with the other on the bench. There aren't many questions about the bench either.

Surely it should be a little worrying that England are higher ranked than Wales yet do not have an established backline? There is a lot of potential for England to get stronger.

by gatlandgun Thu 30 Jan 2014, 9:32 am

North will have more than 120 caps and more tries than Shane Williams before he's 30.

by lostinwales Thu 30 Jan 2014, 9:32 am

Most overrated thread ever....

by GunsGerms Thu 30 Jan 2014, 9:36 am

I always said Ashton was a limited player. He is good at being in support and has incredible pace however, he isnt particularly creative or intellegent with ball in hand. He is a very good finisher though and as a winger thats half the battle. He also has a very good try scroring record albeit most of these tries came a few years ago and when Flood was in the team. Right now if you take away his pace there isnt a lot left though there are things he can work on.

No need to toss Ashton to the scrap heap but hopefully Mike Catt (skills coach?) will have given him some things to work on and he will ditch the silly celebrations and come back a better player. He certainly is very decent.

by GunsGerms Thu 30 Jan 2014, 9:38 am

gatlandgun wrote:North will have more than 120 caps and more tries than Shane Williams before he's 30.

I hope so. He is a better player than Williams who for me only really matured in the twighlight of his career. North is one of the best players in the NH and he is still only 16 or something.

by TJ Thu 30 Jan 2014, 9:41 am

munkian wrote:
jimmyinthewell68 wrote:i wonder how many caps lancaster handed out since becoming England coach . gatland seems to keep the same team whether they in form or not . only injures seems to bring in New players .

We capped young promising players years ago - which is why are squad isn't much older than yours yet they have lots of experience.

This is very true - engand wasted years by not blooding youngsters before Lancaster

by munkian Thu 30 Jan 2014, 9:44 am

beshocked wrote:Well actually munkian your pack is a bit older than ours - certainly your frontrow anyway.

Our pack is actually taking shape very nicely. You know a pack is looking good when the only argument is whether Marler or Vunipola start with the other on the bench. There aren't many questions about the bench either.

Surely it should be a little worrying that England are higher ranked than Wales yet do not have an established backline? There is a lot of potential for England to get stronger.

Its not 'worrying', no. You beat higher ranked SH sides more than us so you'll be higher. Also, getting further in the RWC actually meant our ranking points suffered

I'm not sure where you are going with the pack thing, we are at different stages of development - of course our more experienced front row are going to start.

Is it not worrying that if you had not played such a poor Scottish team in the first game of the last 6 nations you probably wouldn't have got the 4 out of the 5 tries you scored out of the entire tournament ?

by Toadfish Thu 30 Jan 2014, 9:53 am

munkian wrote:
Toadfish wrote:
Scratch wrote:Ben Youngs?

Who?

On another thread Nowell - who has no caps- has already been hailed as a member of the Team of the Tournament. The guy is so good he doesn't even need to play.

It will be the massive back track next week that I am looking forward to.

This is brilliant. Welshman makes claim on one thread. Other welshman complains about it on a different thread.

Yes, because we all think the same, we are legion, for we are many

At what point did I make any sweeping generalisations?

by Cyril Thu 30 Jan 2014, 9:57 am

Well done 606v2!

The tournament hasn't started yet and already the place is a shambles.

by WELL-PAST-IT Thu 30 Jan 2014, 10:02 am

It must be the unseasonal warm weather. They are crawling out from under their rocks together.

They had better be careful, they might just get washed away in a flood of righteous moderation.

by beshocked Thu 30 Jan 2014, 10:03 am

munkian wrote:
beshocked wrote:Well actually munkian your pack is a bit older than ours - certainly your frontrow anyway.

Our pack is actually taking shape very nicely. You know a pack is looking good when the only argument is whether Marler or Vunipola start with the other on the bench. There aren't many questions about the bench either.

Surely it should be a little worrying that England are higher ranked than Wales yet do not have an established backline? There is a lot of potential for England to get stronger.

Its not 'worrying', no. You beat higher ranked SH sides more than us so you'll be higher. Also, getting further in the RWC actually meant our ranking points suffered

I'm not sure where you are going with the pack thing, we are at different stages of development - of course our more experienced front row are going to start.

Is it not worrying that if you had not played such a poor Scottish team in the first game of the last 6 nations you probably wouldn't have got the 4 out of the 5 tries you scored out of the entire tournament ?

Remember you got to the semis of the RWC without beating one of the big three SH sides. Are you not worried that Wales despite obviously having a good side are not making progress? No big three scalp in over 5 years.

In the 6 nations it doesn't matter because you don't need to face the big three but eventually sides like England,Ireland and France will catch up in terms of experience.

It's true England have struggled to find fluency in attack (score tries) but that's a problem we have had for a long time. Just imagine if England actually can getting their attacking game functioning effectively for a sustained period of time? Lancaster is trying to find solutions. It takes time.

by munkian Thu 30 Jan 2014, 10:03 am

Toadfish wrote:
munkian wrote:
Toadfish wrote:
Scratch wrote:Ben Youngs?

Who?

On another thread Nowell - who has no caps- has already been hailed as a member of the Team of the Tournament. The guy is so good he doesn't even need to play.

It will be the massive back track next week that I am looking forward to.

This is brilliant. Welshman makes claim on one thread. Other welshman complains about it on a different thread.

Yes, because we all think the same, we are legion, for we are many

At what point did I make any sweeping generalisations?

by Toadfish Thu 30 Jan 2014, 10:10 am

munkian wrote:
Toadfish wrote:
munkian wrote:
Toadfish wrote:
Scratch wrote:Ben Youngs?

Who?

On another thread Nowell - who has no caps- has already been hailed as a member of the Team of the Tournament. The guy is so good he doesn't even need to play.

It will be the massive back track next week that I am looking forward to.

This is brilliant. Welshman makes claim on one thread. Other welshman complains about it on a different thread.

Yes, because we all think the same, we are legion, for we are many

At what point did I make any sweeping generalisations?

Oh dear, comprehension not your strong point is it? If I was going to generalise I would have used the plural 'Welshmen' would I not?

by munkian Thu 30 Jan 2014, 10:22 am

Yey, personal attacks, you win at the internets.

Are you talking about the same Welshman or two different Welshmen ?

If its two different people you are suggesting one welsh person wrote something and its funny that a different Welshman disagrees with it

by munkian Thu 30 Jan 2014, 10:23 am

beshocked wrote:
munkian wrote:
beshocked wrote:Well actually munkian your pack is a bit older than ours - certainly your frontrow anyway.

Our pack is actually taking shape very nicely. You know a pack is looking good when the only argument is whether Marler or Vunipola start with the other on the bench. There aren't many questions about the bench either.

Surely it should be a little worrying that England are higher ranked than Wales yet do not have an established backline? There is a lot of potential for England to get stronger.

Its not 'worrying', no. You beat higher ranked SH sides more than us so you'll be higher. Also, getting further in the RWC actually meant our ranking points suffered

I'm not sure where you are going with the pack thing, we are at different stages of development - of course our more experienced front row are going to start.

Is it not worrying that if you had not played such a poor Scottish team in the first game of the last 6 nations you probably wouldn't have got the 4 out of the 5 tries you scored out of the entire tournament ?

Remember you got to the semis of the RWC without beating one of the big three SH sides. Are you not worried that Wales despite obviously having a good side are not making progress? No big three scalp in over 5 years.

In the 6 nations it doesn't matter because you don't need to face the big three but eventually sides like England,Ireland and France will catch up in terms of experience.

It's true England have struggled to find fluency in attack (score tries) but that's a problem we have had for a long time. Just imagine if England actually can getting their attacking game functioning effectively for a sustained period of time? Lancaster is trying to find solutions. It takes time.

Its all very well beating the SH but will you get out of your group if you can't beat us ? Wink

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu 30 Jan 2014, 10:24 am

Id be very worried in Wales about the age of some of the wings. Isnt it about time you started looking for replacements?
Some of these players have scored more than 2 tries for their clubs.

by munkian Thu 30 Jan 2014, 10:26 am

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Id be very worried in Wales about the age of some of the wings. Isnt it about time you started looking for replacements?
Some of these players have scored more than 2 tries for their clubs.

Can't...tell..if..serious ? Shocked

by beshocked Thu 30 Jan 2014, 10:32 am

munkian wrote:
beshocked wrote:
munkian wrote:
beshocked wrote:Well actually munkian your pack is a bit older than ours - certainly your frontrow anyway.

Our pack is actually taking shape very nicely. You know a pack is looking good when the only argument is whether Marler or Vunipola start with the other on the bench. There aren't many questions about the bench either.

Surely it should be a little worrying that England are higher ranked than Wales yet do not have an established backline? There is a lot of potential for England to get stronger.

Its not 'worrying', no. You beat higher ranked SH sides more than us so you'll be higher. Also, getting further in the RWC actually meant our ranking points suffered

I'm not sure where you are going with the pack thing, we are at different stages of development - of course our more experienced front row are going to start.

Is it not worrying that if you had not played such a poor Scottish team in the first game of the last 6 nations you probably wouldn't have got the 4 out of the 5 tries you scored out of the entire tournament ?

Remember you got to the semis of the RWC without beating one of the big three SH sides. Are you not worried that Wales despite obviously having a good side are not making progress? No big three scalp in over 5 years.

In the 6 nations it doesn't matter because you don't need to face the big three but eventually sides like England,Ireland and France will catch up in terms of experience.

It's true England have struggled to find fluency in attack (score tries) but that's a problem we have had for a long time. Just imagine if England actually can getting their attacking game functioning effectively for a sustained period of time? Lancaster is trying to find solutions. It takes time.

Its all very well beating the SH but will you get out of your group if you can't beat us ?

Well we have shown we can beat the Aussies so at the moment it's rock,paper,scissors. Plus I think we'll be in better shape when it comes to the world cup. I am confident against any side at Twickenham.

by EnglishReign Thu 30 Jan 2014, 12:04 pm

GloriousEmpire wrote:Yes we heard that Foden, Ashton and Brown formed the most formidable back three in world rugby at one point.

Apart from no one saying that ever, spot on.

by nobbled Thu 30 Jan 2014, 1:49 pm

I do sometimes wonder why Farrell draws as much stick as he does. Is it the suspicion of nepotism?
Perhaps it's the slightly scary neanderthal brow?

Perhaps it's the way he sometimes stares quizzically at the ball before a penalty kick, like he's slightly confused as to what the hell the thing is...then up at the posts (what are they then?) then back to the ball.

He is not the best FH in the world - agreed. But he is arguably the best in England right now. Flood can be sublime (but also poor at times)- and Flood did seem to work well with Ashton, but Farrell's kicking, defence, and general consistency are I think better.
I think he's the best we've got, he's young, and I hope his running game will evolve. (Along with his forehead).

As for Ashton, I'm afraid he needs to go and improve his game if wants a place in the team. He has talents, but there are quicker, hungrier players coming through, and he had his chance to re-claim his place in the AI's with Wade injured, and sadly he didn't do it.

by GloriousEmpire Thu 30 Jan 2014, 2:02 pm

The failure of any single English back to look good (other than perhaps the rather unsubtle Tuilagi) since Farrell's arrival probably suggests that either there are no good backs in England or Farrell can't ignite a backline.

That and the obvious nepotism.

by GunsGerms Thu 30 Jan 2014, 2:02 pm

I agree, Farrell deserves to be first choice 10 for England. He is a very good player. His kicking style is fairly irritating alright.

by GunsGerms Thu 30 Jan 2014, 2:03 pm

GloriousEmpire wrote:The failure of any single English back to look good (other than perhaps the rather unsubtle Tuilagi) since Farrell's arrival probably suggests that either there are no good backs in England or Farrell can't ignite a backline.

That and the obvious nepotism.

How good were the England backline before Farrell? Not great to be honest.

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