Can Lancaster's England survive a second loss?

by GloriousEmpire Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:27 am

With England 0/1 and still with their nemesis Wales and the resurgent Ireland to face, it's worth thinking about where that leaves England.

Losing again will threaten their 4th placing. Lancaster has staked his reputation on being the second best team in the world by the end of the season. That would see him needing a series clean sweep in NZ to reach his self imposed objective.

With the scrum and lineout both looking less than stable, and questions around the effectiveness of his Backline the saviour of English rugby could be in a tricky spot should he lose either of those encounters.

It's unlikely that Scotland have the players to upset this England squad, but should they do so in one of those freak Scottish upset victories that have become prominent of late, could we hypothetically be looking at a New England coach before the World Cup? Following an historic 6N wooden spoon?

We know that England are a team that play on confidence, and that adversity easily rattles the side and brings them under the scrutiny of Britain's vicious tabloid assault. Just look at the collapse of the celebrated England cricket team. How far away is something similar for the chariot?

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:31 am

No they will just by the England RL team.

by quinsforever Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:33 am

losing to scotland would not be good. in fact it would be very bad. very, very bad.

something would need to change, be it management, strategy or players.

SL might have to downgrade his 2nd in IRb rankings target a bit too...

by GloriousEmpire Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:38 am

My cards on the table: I think Lancaster is a great coach. I think the problem lies with both Farrell's. Farrell snr. Through nepotism and inexperience is destroying England's Backline.

Lancaster needs to show his strength and jettison the dead weights.

Surely his patience must be wearing thin with the dire state of back play, and if he doesn't act now he might go down with the ship.

Farrell never came to grips with rugby union as a player and I'm not sure what he's supposed to have done as a coach to warren this inclusion in the national set up. Let's face it, he was fourth and Hobson's choice anyway.

by Geordie Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:44 am

GE,

Why do you always put such a focus on England? A currently you seem to hate...yet choose to inhabit.

Why not focus on any of the other 6n teams?

Oh and by the way i thought Farrell actually played very well on Saturday. Him and Care looked very well balanced.

by Scratch Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:10 am

England won't lose to scotland because they won't bend over and ship 2 tries early doors. Scotland can't score tries and are in dire straits now. In fact i expect a 40-50 point score line for them this weekend.

But, England may well lose to both Ireland and Wales and certainly one of them.

6 points, 4th.

by quinsforever Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:22 am

so 2 points ahead of wales then?

by Mr Bounce Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:26 am

I actually think that the loss to France is the best thing to have happened to England. They will NOT want to go through that again. If they'd won, I believe they would have got themselves into a situation where either Ireland or Wales give them a pounding like last year.

Put them in a situation where they didn't QUITE play well enough for all 80 minutes (whatever the reason) and lost, and the whole status of the team changes. They know there's no more "chances".

I think they will perform like Wales did last year and will win the next 4 games, and quite well. Playing at Twickenham for their games against Ireland & Wales will be a big boost for them too. I can see shaky moments in both, but believe they will win.

by **George Carlin** Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:28 am

England won't lose to us. Probably.

However, it is noteworthy that whilst the England pack is looking genuinely menacing with high quality alternative players in just about every position, it says something that most England fans would quite strongly disagree about what their best backline is. And that has to be a worry with a World Cup looming.

by Scratch Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:54 am

quinsforever wrote:so 2 points ahead of wales then?

You wish quoins

But there is no logic in your wish, i find it amusing that the side who has now won 10/11 games, defending the title and also on a 3 trophy campaign is rated so poorly this season while England, the perennial bridesmaids who were on yet another Slam campaign until Saturday afternoon, are still no doubt going to win the championship. Who will we lose to? France at home? Unlikely. England away, even less likely. Our backs are in a whole different league to England's and apart form a shared weakness at 10 and your apparent superiority in the tight 5 - a stat i think england failed to capitalize on last week - i see our side as exceptionally strong. We now have a world class centre waiting in the wings, the best 15 in world rugby whose kicking is metronomic, awesome strike power on both wings. Alun Wynn Jones. An immense hooker who is effectively a 6 and a back row to compete with the best in world rugby. A young side full of lions and massive experience, no fear, 2 championships under their belt and for some, 4.

Right now SL is under huge pressure. I don't think you lack awesome backs but the management of bench, subs and selection is poor. Was Nowell ready for a 1st cap v France? No way and it showed and cost you, forget the carrying stats.
Not picking a 10 sub is frankly staggering. Raises the question, does Farrell Snr have such influence on the selection that he won't even countenance a 10 on the bench? It is clear you are stuck with Farrell for the RWC and IMO that will cost England but whoever thought having a father son combo in the team just wasn't thinking straight.
Taking of Hartley and Care….utterly brainless.

Injury aside pick 4 centers and stick with them
Barrit
Manu
Burrell
36 if you must

Brown is world class and must remain at 15.

Again, notwithstanding injury, pick a wing cadre of Yarde, Wade, May(be), AN Other

Stick with it

Cut the constant changing of personnel. I read England used a ridiculous amount of players last season, can't remember where but for me that is the main problem england have….too much selection and indecision.

I expect Wales to win the championship losing one on the way. They will get their pdiff v Scotland.

Wales
Ireland
Fr
Eng
Italy
Scotland

Pressure should come down on England's management if, with the embarrassment of riches they have, they do not win this 6 Nations this year.

Then the blame should lie squarely on SL's shoulders

by Tattie Scones RRN Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:00 am

Scratch wrote:
quinsforever wrote:so 2 points ahead of wales then?

You wish quoins

But there is no logic in your wish, i find it amusing that the side who has now won 10/11 games, defending the title and also on a 3 trophy campaign is rated so poorly this season while England, the perennial bridesmaids who were on yet another Slam campaign until Saturday afternoon, are still no doubt going to win the championship. Who will we lose to? France at home? Unlikely. England away, even less likely. Our backs are in a whole different league to England's and apart form a shared weakness at 10 and your apparent superiority in the tight 5 - a stat i think england failed to capitalize on last week - i see our side as exceptionally strong. We now have a world class centre waiting in the wings, the best 15 in world rugby whose kicking is metronomic, awesome strike power on both wings. Alun Wynn Jones. An immense hooker who is effectively a 6 and a back row to compete with the best in world rugby. A young side full of lions and massive experience, no fear, 2 championships under their belt and for some, 4.

Right now SL is under huge pressure. I don't think you lack awesome backs but the management of bench, subs and selection is poor. Was Nowell ready for a 1st cap v France? No way and it showed and cost you, forget the carrying stats.
Not picking a 10 sub is frankly staggering. Raises the question, does Farrell Snr have such influence on the selection that he won't even countenance a 10 on the bench? It is clear you are stuck with Farrell for the RWC and IMO that will cost England but whoever thought having a father son combo in the team just wasn't thinking straight.
Taking of Hartley and Care….utterly brainless.

Injury aside pick 4 centers and stick with them
Barrit
Manu
Burrell
36 if you must

Brown is world class and must remain at 15.

Again, notwithstanding injury, pick a wing cadre of Yarde, Wade, May(be), AN Other

Stick with it

Cut the constant changing of personnel. I read England used a ridiculous amount of players last season, can't remember where but for me that is the main problem england have….too much selection and indecision.

I expect Wales to win the championship losing one on the way. They will get their pdiff v Scotland.

Wales
Ireland
Fr
Eng
Italy
Scotland

Pressure should come down on England's management if, with the embarrassment of riches they have, they do not win this 6 Nations this year.

Then the blame should lie squarely on SL's shoulders

Best 15 in the world at kicking points perhaps. His intercepted pass might have knocked him off the top perch?

by quinsforever Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:03 am

hahahaha. IMO wales are going to get 2 fairly heavy defeats away against ire and eng, and 1 narrow choke defeat at home against france.

1 injury and its all over for your team, so threadbare are the cover options in many positions. i dont wish injury on anyone, but if there were going to be a game where it's likely its ireland v wales this saturday. gethin's knee/calf. roberts. either 2nd row.

and thats not to mention the WRUburton saga and its impact on team morale and cohesion.

yes england have issues in the backs, well documented. and conceding 2 soft, somewhat unlucky tries vs france in the first 15 minutes, england still should have won.

nowell is going to go from strength to strength. may too i believe. and i wouldnt be surprised to see burrell, after the 6N, when Tuilagi is back, keep 36 out of the 12 position.

and thats not to mention other injured backs.

you have it wrong re favourites. wales are favourites. but they haven't won 10/11 matches. they've won 10/11 6 Nations matches over 3 years. pretty selective statistics.

on which note, england are on a run of 20/20 (or something like that) against italy. doesnt intimidate anyone.

by Scratch Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:04 am

Tattie

The problem with being as good as 1/2 is that howlers , when they happen, stick out.

the boy made an error, read by an exceptional talent IMO, and since it is frankly the only one i can think of since perhaps his missed kick in RWC, it is not even worth noting.

All players make mistakes.

by funnyExiledScot Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:06 am

I think England need a new backs coach. They should hire Scott Johnson immediately.

by quinsforever Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:08 am

scratch - the wales 9 and 10 are so bad, slow and poor decision makers relative to 12-14 (i dont share your view on 1/2P's preeminence), that i dont think it matters how good your 12-14 are in a vacuum.

against decent sides backs cant go forwards when going backwards...SA, Aus, Japan Wink

so if your platform in the pack wobbles, and 9/10 is an unimaginative weak link, then who cares about your 12-14. although Roberts and North are really great i agree.

by **Biltong** Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:16 am

Has any team ever won the Six Nations with 2 losses?

by Scratch Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:21 am

Quins

You a groundsman? It's just that you move the goalposts to suit your argument so well.

Relevance of SA and Aus to this is well, irrelevant. Wales are THE side to beat in the 6 Nations, 10/11, but i appreciate your desperate attempt to bring our SH perf into play.

Your comment ref injury while somewhat accurate, is pretty poor. Gethin? Paul james is arguably our first pick now anyway. And because we have such continuity, new players can come in and be surrounded with huge experience e.g. Coombs last season. And i cannot wait to see Wrecking Ball in red. Strenght in depth is the price you pay for continuity….but is it really that bad for Wales…Tipuric on the bench, North covers the cntres Williams slots in….Gatland picks utility players for that very reason.
And apply the same argument to England, you pick debutantes in key spots and they cost you the game, literally. What you need is a smaller pool so your big sharks can prosper, not a pool full of so many sharks you can't see who is the biggest and they all cancel each other out.

Philipps is a big game player and will rise to the occasion this weekend, wait and see.

As for RP, had one of his better games v Italy and while she still made errors i was happy with him. I m stunned to say that but its true. ireland though will test him.

I said all teams would lose one, you can guess which one i think we might lose from my earlier post but remember RWC. Wlaes can shock too.
Yes RP is our weak link and Saturday will be a battle royal and if Ireland do what i expect from the whistle it could get nasty, but Wales are in such a different stage of development to the other sides.

We aren't playing a player on rep like BOD, we aren't unsure who we want to pick like England, we aren't France and we know rugby is about scoring tries unlike the Scots.

Anyway, i just wish Campagnaro had a Welsh granny. i just hope they find out he was distantly related to L Dallaglio!!

by Cyril Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:43 am

Scratch, you seriously need to grow up.

by Scratch Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:45 am

Cyril wrote:Scratch, you seriously need to grow up.

Go pick a fight with yourself Cyril, that way you might win. thumbsup

by nlpnlp Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:46 am

Quinsforever wrote
“Injury aside pick 4 centers and stick with them
Barrit
Manu
Burrell
36 if you must”
Errr, Manu is not fit yet and the other 3 are the 3 centres in the matchday squad.

“Again, notwithstanding injury, pick a wing cadre of Yarde, Wade, May(be), AN Other”
Errr, Yarde, Wade and AN Other are not fit yet and May is in the team.

“Was Nowell ready for a 1st cap v France? No way and it showed and cost you, forget the carrying stats.”
On the grounds we had no other fit wingers other than Chris Ashton or Dave Strettle who are mercilessly derided by posters, Nowell was the best available. Every player has to have a first cap, otherwise we would still be playing Tindall, Cueto, etc. It is too early yet to say if Nowell will be a top quality International player, but he did enough good things to convince me he is worth persevering with. Better to find out now than in the world cup.

“Not picking a 10 sub is frankly staggering. Raises the question, does Farrell Snr have such influence on the selection that he won't even countenance a 10 on the bench?”
If Farrell Snr is so incompetent why did Gatland take him on the Lions tour ahead of Edwards? Why do both Lancaster and Gatland think he is good? Perhaps you know better than both of them.
France went into the same game without a 10 sub. Was that staggering – if so I haven’t seen you mention it.

Posters on this site are so fickle.

by Cyril Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:48 am

Scratch wrote:
Cyril wrote:Scratch, you seriously need to grow up.

Go pick a fight with yourself Cyril, that way you might win.

As long as it's playground rules I've no chance against you, lad Smile

by Scratch Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:48 am

nlpnlp wrote:Quinsforever wrote
“Injury aside pick 4 centers and stick with them
Barrit
Manu
Burrell
36 if you must”
Errr, Manu is not fit yet and the other 3 are the 3 centres in the matchday squad.

“Again, notwithstanding injury, pick a wing cadre of Yarde, Wade, May(be), AN Other”
Errr, Yarde, Wade and AN Other are not fit yet and May is in the team.

“Was Nowell ready for a 1st cap v France? No way and it showed and cost you, forget the carrying stats.”
On the grounds we had no other fit wingers other than Chris Ashton or Dave Strettle who are mercilessly derided by posters, Nowell was the best available. Every player has to have a first cap, otherwise we would still be playing Tindall, Cueto, etc. It is too early yet to say if Nowell will be a top quality International player, but he did enough good things to convince me he is worth persevering with. Better to find out now than in the world cup.

“Not picking a 10 sub is frankly staggering. Raises the question, does Farrell Snr have such influence on the selection that he won't even countenance a 10 on the bench?”
If Farrell Snr is so incompetent why did Gatland take him on the Lions tour ahead of Edwards? Why do both Lancaster and Gatland think he is good? Perhaps you know better than both of them.
France went into the same game without a 10 sub. Was that staggering – if so I haven’t seen you mention it.

Posters on this site are so fickle.

Yeah quins, you are SOOOOO fickle

by **Biltong** Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:49 am

Scratch wrote:
Cyril wrote:Scratch, you seriously need to grow up.

Go pick a fight with yourself Cyril, that way you might win.

Enough gents

by Scratch Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:49 am

Cyril wrote:
Scratch wrote:
Cyril wrote:Scratch, you seriously need to grow up.

Go pick a fight with yourself Cyril, that way you might win.
As long as it's playground rules I've no chance against you, lad.

Actually, you have just shown you would probably lose to yourself too, we're done here. Laugh

by Cyril Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:50 am

Biltong wrote:
Scratch wrote:
Cyril wrote:Scratch, you seriously need to grow up.

Go pick a fight with yourself Cyril, that way you might win.

Enough gents

Hmmm. I'm really not sure that was necessary.

by quinsforever Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:51 am

Scratch wrote:
nlpnlp wrote:Quinsforever wrote
“Injury aside pick 4 centers and stick with them
Barrit
Manu
Burrell
36 if you must”
Errr, Manu is not fit yet and the other 3 are the 3 centres in the matchday squad.

“Again, notwithstanding injury, pick a wing cadre of Yarde, Wade, May(be), AN Other”
Errr, Yarde, Wade and AN Other are not fit yet and May is in the team.

“Was Nowell ready for a 1st cap v France? No way and it showed and cost you, forget the carrying stats.”
On the grounds we had no other fit wingers other than Chris Ashton or Dave Strettle who are mercilessly derided by posters, Nowell was the best available. Every player has to have a first cap, otherwise we would still be playing Tindall, Cueto, etc. It is too early yet to say if Nowell will be a top quality International player, but he did enough good things to convince me he is worth persevering with. Better to find out now than in the world cup.

“Not picking a 10 sub is frankly staggering. Raises the question, does Farrell Snr have such influence on the selection that he won't even countenance a 10 on the bench?”
If Farrell Snr is so incompetent why did Gatland take him on the Lions tour ahead of Edwards? Why do both Lancaster and Gatland think he is good? Perhaps you know better than both of them.
France went into the same game without a 10 sub. Was that staggering – if so I haven’t seen you mention it.

Posters on this site are so fickle.

Yeah quins, you are SOOOOO fickle

by Scratch Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:51 am

Biltong wrote:
Scratch wrote:
Cyril wrote:Scratch, you seriously need to grow up.

Go pick a fight with yourself Cyril, that way you might win.

Enough gents

Not quite sure what you are supposed to do to a petty comment like that Biltong, no attempt to engage in debate clearly just looking for a punch up. He is easily ignored in future

by Cyril Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:53 am

Ok, I'll apologise.

Got a bit of toothache so not in the greatest mood Sad

Sorry Scratch Smile

by Nachos Jones Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:53 am

Cyril and Scratch, you guys make me laugh. More of your type of banter is required on this site. Keep it up Very Happy

by Scratch Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:57 am

nlpnlp wrote:Quinsforever wrote
“Injury aside pick 4 centers and stick with them
Barrit
Manu
Burrell
36 if you must”
Errr, Manu is not fit yet and the other 3 are the 3 centres in the matchday squad.

“Again, notwithstanding injury, pick a wing cadre of Yarde, Wade, May(be), AN Other”
Errr, Yarde, Wade and AN Other are not fit yet and May is in the team.

“Was Nowell ready for a 1st cap v France? No way and it showed and cost you, forget the carrying stats.”
On the grounds we had no other fit wingers other than Chris Ashton or Dave Strettle who are mercilessly derided by posters, Nowell was the best available. Every player has to have a first cap, otherwise we would still be playing Tindall, Cueto, etc. It is too early yet to say if Nowell will be a top quality International player, but he did enough good things to convince me he is worth persevering with. Better to find out now than in the world cup.

“Not picking a 10 sub is frankly staggering. Raises the question, does Farrell Snr have such influence on the selection that he won't even countenance a 10 on the bench?”
If Farrell Snr is so incompetent why did Gatland take him on the Lions tour ahead of Edwards? Why do both Lancaster and Gatland think he is good? Perhaps you know better than both of them.
France went into the same game without a 10 sub. Was that staggering – if so I haven’t seen you mention it.

Posters on this site are so fickle.

Nipnip

Don't blame quins

My point is continuity. England must now stick with these players and not bring in more unknowns. And being derided on here does not, as far as I am aware, affect selection. Though GE might think different.
Nowell should have been picked v Italy or Scotland not France.

Where did I say Farrell Snr was incompetent? at any rate the selection for the lions was as much politics as anything else. Having your dad on the selection panel might just be called nepotism.

And nothing France does is staggering, it's just France

by Scratch Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:57 am

Cyril wrote:Ok, I'll apologise.

Got a bit of toothache so not in the greatest mood

Sorry Scratch

by Scratch Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:58 am

Nachos Jones wrote:Cyril and Scratch, you guys make me laugh. More of your type of banter is required on this site. Keep it up

Careful Nachos, you'll get banned for aiding and abetting

by SecretFly Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:00 am

Scotland winning is not exactly a fantasy as 6N always throws up some fun in the surprise wins realm... Neither is it a fantasy that Scotland could be absolutely destroyed by a resurgent England who go on to kill off all other challengers this year.

Is England the new Ireland and France - as in "Which England will show up?" Wink

They played the most joined up rugby on the first weekend yet still lost. I think they'll be having a say on honours right to the end.

by Nachos Jones Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:03 am

Scratch wrote:
Nachos Jones wrote:Cyril and Scratch, you guys make me laugh. More of your type of banter is required on this site. Keep it up

Careful Nachos, you'll get banned for aiding and abetting

Probably but this place does need the banter and the humour back in it. The disagreements always make for a great convo IMO. If everyone was nice and agreed with eachother then this would be a boring forum. Keep it clean and it makes for interesting and entertaining reading Very Happy

.

by Scratch Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:04 am

Cyril wrote:Ok, I'll apologise.

Got a bit of toothache so not in the greatest mood

Sorry Scratch

Are your teeth as rotten as your sense of humor?

by Scratch Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:06 am

SecretFly wrote:Scotland winning is not exactly a fantasy as 6N always throws up some fun in the surprise wins realm... Neither is it a fantasy that Scotland could be absolutely destroyed by a resurgent England who go on to kill off all other challengers this year.

Is England the new Ireland and France - as in "Which England will show up?"

They played the most joined up rugby on the first weekend yet still lost. I think they'll be having a say on honours right to the end.

If Scotland had beaten ireland i would have laid a quid or two on them to raise the bar further and do england at home after the french win, now i am afraid they will get hammered up front and their defense will be unable to cope

by Cyril Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:10 am

Scratch wrote:
Cyril wrote:Ok, I'll apologise.

Got a bit of toothache so not in the greatest mood

Sorry Scratch

Are your teeth as rotten as your sense of humor?

I'd normally bite on a comment like that but it would be painful at the minute.

by WELL-PAST-IT Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:50 am

Scratch wrote:Quins

You a groundsman? It's just that you move the goalposts to suit your argument so well.

Relevance of SA and Aus to this is well, irrelevant. Wales are THE side to beat in the 6 Nations, 10/11, but i appreciate your desperate attempt to bring our SH perf into play.

Your comment ref injury while somewhat accurate, is pretty poor. Gethin? Paul james is arguably our first pick now anyway. And because we have such continuity, new players can come in and be surrounded with huge experience e.g. Coombs last season. And i cannot wait to see Wrecking Ball in red. Strenght in depth is the price you pay for continuity….but is it really that bad for Wales…Tipuric on the bench, North covers the cntres Williams slots in….Gatland picks utility players for that very reason.
And apply the same argument to England, you pick debutantes in key spots and they cost you the game, literally. What you need is a smaller pool so your big sharks can prosper, not a pool full of so many sharks you can't see who is the biggest and they all cancel each other out.

Philipps is a big game player and will rise to the occasion this weekend, wait and see.

As for RP, had one of his better games v Italy and while she still made errors i was happy with him. I m stunned to say that but its true. ireland though will test him.

I said all teams would lose one, you can guess which one i think we might lose from my earlier post but remember RWC. Wlaes can shock too.
Yes RP is our weak link and Saturday will be a battle royal and if Ireland do what i expect from the whistle it could get nasty, but Wales are in such a different stage of development to the other sides.

We aren't playing a player on rep like BOD, we aren't unsure who we want to pick like England, we aren't France and we know rugby is about scoring tries unlike the Scots.

Anyway, i just wish Campagnaro had a Welsh granny. i just hope they find out he was distantly related to L Dallaglio!!

Scratch when you come off whatever you have been smoking you re going to be in for a big let down.

Paul James is now your no. 1, then why is he benched and Gethin selected as soon as he is fit? James struggled against Italy who no longer have a Great front row, they are now mediocre.

Games in the AIs are irrelevant now, only 6N games count. So Wales didn't play those games and they didn't struggle against Italy

North covers the centres, played one game in an emergency, even Saints only play him there if they have little choice. That's like saying Goode covers 10 for England.

Surrounded by huge experience i.e. Coombes, played in the loss to Ireland and hasn't played since as a starter, 1 cap and lost.

"you pick debutantes in key spots and they cost you the game" Where isn't a key spot in your opinion?

"Philipps is a big game player and will rise to the occasion this weekend, wait and see" I work with a lot of Welshman and they only agree with the first three words of your statement, the fourth is usually donkey, ar$e, or similar. Often something relating to 2nd class mail, the ball takes a week to get to where it was sent.

"As for RP, had one of his better games v Italy and while she still made errors i was happy with him. I m stunned to say that but its true. ireland though will test him." Please get a spell and punctuation checker ( I could probably do with one myself also) I was not aware that Priestland was transsexual, at least Welsh rugby has moved on since Thomas came out.

Your front row is weak in the tight, A. Jones is a shadow of himself under the latest laws, Hibbard would struggle to hit a barn door consistently in the line out and Gethin is now a shadow of himself in the loose, was never in even a shadow in the scrum. You have serious problems at lock, AWJ aside your other locks are poor. Your back row is good if somewhat lacking in punch.

9 & 10 would struggle to get into any other home nations side. Centres and back three world class but what can they do if they don't get the ball. Your forwards could not get the best of any SH side.

Gameplan, errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr have you got one other than Gatball which doesn't work against SH sides?

RWC 2015 position 3rd in group at best I think unless you develop some better game plan than you have and at least a new front row and half back combo.

By the way have you seen your long lost brother recently, I saw him posting on here recently, name was something like Gloria. Ahhh............ Priestland scenario again

by bedfordwelsh Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:56 am

Well its good to see that yet another thread as degenerated into a shambles.

For what its worth and back to the rugby IF England lose this weekend then I think it will be very bad for them but do you then change the coach 18months out from a WC Wales had a habit of doing that in the past and it achieved nothing.

All that aside I really think its a mute point and I think England will win and win comfortably in the end.

by quinsforever Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:27 am

hope so bedford. but i agree with you that a loss against a relatively toothless Scotland (no offense intended it's just a reflection of the lack of real attacking threat, especially without maitland) would be terminal for either players or management or both.

by DeludedOptimistorjustDave Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:50 am

England won't lose to Scotland , Scotland are awful.

I have one eye on England v Italy massive upset on the cards I think.

by dragonbreath Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:20 am

quinsforever wrote:scratch - the wales 9 and 10 are so bad, slow and poor decision makers relative to 12-14 (i dont share your view on 1/2P's preeminence), that i dont think it matters how good your 12-14 are in a vacuum.

against decent sides backs cant go forwards when going backwards...SA, Aus, Japan

so if your platform in the pack wobbles, and 9/10 is an unimaginative weak link, then who cares about your 12-14. although Roberts and North are really great i agree.

dont share your view [b]on 1/2P's preeminence)

It takes a lot of confidence (or ignorance) to disagree with pretty much every person adjudicating Halfpenny's ability. Six Nations Player of the Tournament, Lions Player of the Tour, 2nd in World Player of the year. Did anyone ask you to sit on those panels? Thought not. The expression know nothing Richard head springs to mind. Yes I know you are entitled to your opinion but that does mean its worth the time spent typing it

by GloriousEmpire Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:22 am

Robshaw's comments about a "backlash" from England smack of desperation and arrogance to me.

Let's face facts, England have faded in their last two matches. Nay, disintegrated. The bench has proven to be lightweight and ineffective. They've had no game plan to close out a narrow lead and deserved to lose with such lack of composure.

England should worry about getting their house in order and finding the way to the white paint again rather than conjuring some delusion of being hard done by.

Unfortunately from what I've seen recently at twickenham, the lack of level playing field available to visitors is likely to make Scotland's talent deficit too hard to overcome in the land where special rules apparently apply.

by quinsforever Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:38 am

dragonbreath wrote:
quinsforever wrote:scratch - the wales 9 and 10 are so bad, slow and poor decision makers relative to 12-14 (i dont share your view on 1/2P's preeminence), that i dont think it matters how good your 12-14 are in a vacuum.

against decent sides backs cant go forwards when going backwards...SA, Aus, Japan

so if your platform in the pack wobbles, and 9/10 is an unimaginative weak link, then who cares about your 12-14. although Roberts and North are really great i agree.

dont share your view on 1/2P's preeminence)

It takes a lot of confidence (or ignorance) to disagree with pretty much every person adjudicating Halfpenny's ability. Six Nations Player of the Tournament, Lions Player of the Tour, 2nd in World Player of the year. Did anyone ask you to sit on those panels? Thought not. The expression know nothing Richard head springs to mind. Yes I know you are entitled to your opinion but that does mean its worth the time spent typing it

scratch said he was the best FB in world rugby. i said i disagree. you said he was 6N POTY, Lions POTY, and 2nd in POTY (along with Etzebeth, Parisse and Smith, none of whom play 15).

can you honestly not see how i can agree with the awards he was given and still disagree with Scratch?

do i have to spell it out?

by mystiroakey Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:45 am

What do you mean be survive GE?

If we lose again- we lose again, its not the end of the world.

Do you mean can Lancaster survive?

by quinsforever Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:51 am

hey strokey good to hear from ya.

tune in for the next few weekends its gonna be epic. and hopefully a bit wild on 606 Wink

by mystiroakey Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:56 am

The welsh v Irish could get interesting couldn't it!

by GloriousEmpire Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:10 am

quinsforever wrote:hey strokey good to hear from ya.

tune in for the next few weekends its gonna be epic. and hopefully a bit wild on 606

It won't be wild, were under instructions to be civil.

I will be applauding whomever wins with a ceremonial golf clap, whilst cackling privately to myself if the results go the way I predict.

by mystiroakey Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:11 am

Are we on a tight leash...

Maybe we should be able to opt into an anything goes thread that is blocked to the wider internet audience!!

by SecretFly Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:15 am

He's alright up until Isandlwana. If he loses there, it's curtains.

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