Italians sign up to Pro 12 with two professional teams for next 4 years.

http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/news/14424.php

Celtic Unions have agreed that Italy will now be an equal partner in the Pro12. Means we still have 2 Italian teams and means that the Italians aren't now being take advantage of, great news all round.

Artful_Dodger wrote:http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/news/14424.php

Celtic Unions have agreed that Italy will now be an equal partner in the Pro12. Means we still have 2 Italian teams and means that the Italians aren't now being take advantage of, great news all round.

They are also working on creating a new franchise based close to Venice.

it says "equal partners" in the press release.

does that mean the italian clubs dont have to pay EUR3m per team any more?

quinsforever wrote:it says "equal partners" in the press release.

does that mean the italian clubs dont have to pay EUR3m per team any more?

It doesn't state as much, but I would think so, quins.

Great news. I enjoy our games against the Italian teams, and always felt it a bit unfair that they had to pay for their continued participation in the Rabo.

No doubting that Rabo has been good for the Italian national team, so good news all round, methinks.

Edit: Was it 3m Euro per team? I always thought it was for both.

may have been for both. cant remember. i think the principle of equal partnership is important though i agree.

Great to keep the Italian teams in - Treviso are getting petter each season which is great for European rugby.

Good for the league. They were always likely to resign but its good to have things signed on the dotted line.

Good, good. Its another sign that things are resolved regarding Europe and will settle the question for sponsors.

That said, I desperately hope they work out a way to improve the standard of their teams as Treviso are in free fall and Zebre are making no progress.

Nematode wrote:Great to keep the Italian teams in - Treviso are getting petter each season which is great for European rugby.

Not so sure Treviso is going to remain in Rabo. I had heard that Treviso were opting out, and being replaced with a Province closer to Rome.

profitius wrote:Good for the league. They were always likely to resign but its good to have things signed on the dotted line.

to hyphenate, or not to hyphenate, that is the question...

Has the League got a sponsor yet ?

Zebre have made big strides. They have 3 wins this season and are unfortunate to be at the bottom of the pile. Treviso is in free fall at present with bigger clubs set to pick their bones if you believe the reports. Hopefully the 3m is reinvested in another team that can become competitive

Good news for all.

PS Other than the Cardiff Blues  

Munchkin wrote:

Nematode wrote:Great to keep the Italian teams in - Treviso are getting petter each season which is great for European rugby.

Not so sure Treviso is going to remain in Rabo. I had heard that Treviso were opting out, and being replaced with a Province closer to Rome.

No, its one close to Venice called Dogi.

From google translate:

RUGBY RaboDirect PRO12 The Doges and the Zebras will not have to shell out a euro for participation in the Celtic next season . The agreement will be signed in the coming days
Participation is free , there is ok

Tuesday the meeting between President Gavazzi and federations Celtic on Wednesday the clarification meeting with Veneto (see article) , Thursday announcement . From 1 July 2014, the Fir enters as an equal partner in the tournament , so the two Italian franchises will not pay the expensive fee parteciapazione

London - "We found the maximum willingness on the part of other Federations - said the president of the Fir, Alfredo Gavazzi ( photo) - and we are pleased with the final outcome of the negotiation. I want to thank the CEO of Celtic Rugby John Feehan and colleagues presidents of other federations to have understood and accepted our requests . " After the agreement with the Venetian front for the creation of a territorial franchise , came the go-ahead for the participation Celtic for free and without the ballast of over 3 million euro that the Fir was forced to pay . the meeting was held on Tuesday in London between the leaders of the Fir and other Federations ( IRFU , Wru , SRU ) of Celtic Rugby .

During the meeting , held in the name of maximum cooperation were discussed all the issues and it was agreed to the entry of Fir as an equal partner in Celtic Rugby from 1 July 2014.
Feds believe they have defined and solved all the points for the full participation of two Italian teams . For the next four years , Fir ensure the participation of two Italian teams in the RaboDirect PRO12 competition is now called .
The Memorandum of Understanding between Fir and other federations will be officially signed in the next period .

" I've always been a supporter of the Italian participation in an international tournament that I think capital for the growth of high-level Italian rugby - added Gavazzi - and I believe that with this new agreement , our movement will move further progress , with benefits in the short , medium and long term for rugby in our country. "

Thanks, Sin e. I did hear Rome, but obviously it appears Venice is accurate. Probably get stuck with the Dogs. Not bad.

I think there are good players in the Eccellenza here and there, if they can get the best out of it and considering Treviso's free fall it can't be a bad team that a new team is created.

all goes tho show you need partners to progress . not greed. cue ERU

Great news indeed, especially with the Euro comp still not making progress, but I think the Italians really need to stick with 2 professional teams and go with them. First Airioni then Zebre and now rumours of another new team - they are never going to build as a team and a club if they keep changing.

Allty wrote:PS   Other than the Cardiff Blues  

   

Odd, I expected to hear from Chunky Norwich celebrating the good news - here ye go, son  

Venice for an away trip - sounds good but won't there be problems with waterlogged pitches   

What does this mean for Treviso?

It's odd because both Venice and Treviso are in the Veneto region. It would be a shame if they set up a Venetian side and they cannot face Treviso. Or does this mean that Treviso will be gone as a club?

We should have known something was wrong with Treviso for this season, unlike last season when they faced Saracens and Wasps they faced 2 Eccellenza teams in friendly and they didn't sign anyone to strenghten their small (38 players) squad. Franco Smith departure isn't a surprise in this light.

beshocked, talk is Benetton will step down from full time pro rugby and joins the Eccellenza.

Does that mean an Italian side will still get one of the proposed automatic four HC qualifying places even though they may finish in the lower half of the league and other sides above them in the league do not qualify ?

Munchkin wrote:Thanks, Sin e. I did hear Rome, but obviously it appears Venice is accurate. Probably get stuck with the Dogs. Not bad.

Doge is italian for duke. The doges of Venice held positions of very high power in Venice.

Good news all round.

Good to hear that they're now equal partners, also that Italian players get to play, for the next four years at least, higher standard teams that the proposed 8 team Italian league.

This was the only option so its no surprise, it was hilarious reading on here how the Italians going back to the super 8 was going to be great for Italian rugby.

LF4L, I think we would all accept the short term approach for achieving standards particularly as Italy want to bid for a RWC and a competitive Test side becomes important. However the long term goal for a country the size of Italy cannot be to follow a Celtic elite model but rather to have a popular domestic league. Euro competitions should be a secondary long term goal.

Recwatcher wrote:LF4L,  I think we would all accept the short term approach for achieving standards particularly as Italy want to bid for a RWC and a competitive Test side becomes important. However the long term goal for a country  the size of Italy cannot be to follow a Celtic elite model but rather to have a popular domestic league.  Euro competitions should be a secondary long term goal.

Well said.

How are Italy going to support a successful domestic league when they have 1000 people turning up to watch Zebre on a good day?

They are barely and I mean barely producing enough players for 2 teams, let alone 8 or so. Treviso are in free fall and Zebre can just about compete with the Leinster A team.

Soccer is huge in Italy and even they struggle to bring in crowds compared to their rivals. I remember AC Milan not selling out in a champions league last 16 game against Celtic. Lets get real here, Italy will never be able to support a league that would be able to compete finacially with the Pro 12 let alone the Top 14. Their poor performing teams will never generate enough interest.

I'd like nothing more than to see Italy become a successful side and have great domestic teams that challenge for HC's but I don't see that happening even in the distant future. I think our aims and goals for Italy should be more realistic.

First thing for me is to get one of their teams making the top 6 in the Rabo consistently and having an average attendance of 6-7000 per game, then go from there. Then they can actually start adding to league, as of now I really don't enjoy watching Leinster play in Parma in front of 1000 or so people on a awful RTE stream.

LF4L, spoken like a true believer of centrally controlled elitist structures. I don't blame you, the kiwi coaches have created three successful irish sides. Italy are different to Ireland. The crowds may be small now but you have to create the local rivalries - the AP crowds weren't much bigger at the start of professionalism - I remember those days. Taking the international players away from the fans and placing them in two sides can only be a short term option.

Recwatcher wrote:LF4L, spoken like a true believer of centrally controlled elitist structures.  I don't blame you, the kiwi coaches have created three successful irish sides. Italy are different to Ireland.  The crowds may be small now but you have to create the local rivalries - the AP crowds weren't much bigger at the start of professionalism - I remember those days. Taking the international players away from the fans and placing them in two sides can only be a short term option.

That was the start of professionalism though, things are much different now. The Irish sides were able to bring in top quality foreign players to improve the teams and generate interest in the country to a point where the teams become some of the most successful in Europe. In the long term it has worked out as now Ireland are producing more players then they ever have and that is mostly down to the success we enjoyed in the HC.

That is not possible now because of the Top14! they have to rely on producing within and currently that is not happening and even if it does the best players will leave for France anyway as at least one of the teams will not be in the HC. Like I said lets set more realistic goals for rugby in Italy.

L4L you are right to say the Italians wont push the top spots in the Pro 12 anytime soon despite the WRUs best efforts.
So wouldnt they be better placed haveing a smallish domestic pro league in which Italian teams actually get to win games? Sure it would put them out the HEC but they dont have a hope in hell at that either.

Instead theres a pointlessly small number of not even the best Italian players in sides that make scotlands contribution to the league look healthy.

Noone wants to go and watch their side lose every week. Theres only so much novelty in seeing a mid ranked welsh side come over and spank you in the HEC every year, especially when you play them in the Pro12 as well.

If Italy wanted that then ye good for them but them signing this new deal clearly shows they want to stay in the Rabo and have their players compete on a good level.

This was their only option if they want to improve the national team.

Recwatcher wrote:Does that mean an Italian side will still get one of the proposed  automatic four HC qualifying places even though they may finish in the lower half of the league and other sides above them in the league do not qualify ?

Yes, the proposal which has been accepted by all four relevant unions is for the top four sides from each nation and then the three highest ranked sides in the league.

It's perfectly fair. It's impossible to finish in the Top 5 positions in the league and not qualify for Europe. Almost every year it'll be the Top 6 as most seasons three nations are represented in the Top 6. If any side from the Pro12 wins we'll get an extra place.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:L4L you are right to say the Italians wont push the top spots in the Pro 12 anytime soon despite the WRUs best efforts.
So wouldnt they be better placed haveing a smallish domestic pro league in which Italian teams actually get to win games? Sure it would put them out the HEC but they dont have a hope in hell at that either.

Instead theres a pointlessly small number of not even the best Italian players in sides that make scotlands contribution to the league look healthy.

Noone wants to go and watch their side lose every week. Theres only so much novelty in seeing a mid ranked welsh side come over and spank you in the HEC every year, especially when you play them in the Pro12 as well.

Baby steps. The Italians will need time to get structures etc in place and then time for players to come through those structures.


Being in the Pro 12 gives them an opportunity to experience rugby at a much higher level than the Italian domestic league. Their players are better for it and it allows their 2 teams to see what players can step up a level.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:L4L you are right to say the Italians wont push the top spots in the Pro 12 anytime soon despite the WRUs best efforts.
So wouldnt they be better placed haveing a smallish domestic pro league in which Italian teams actually get to win games? Sure it would put them out the HEC but they dont have a hope in hell at that either.

Instead theres a pointlessly small number of not even the best Italian players in sides that make scotlands contribution to the league look healthy.

Noone wants to go and watch their side lose every week. Theres only so much novelty in seeing a mid ranked welsh side come over and spank you in the HEC every year, especially when you play them in the Pro12 as well.

Out of interest do you watch/ take an interest in the Pro12?
Edinburgh are on an upward curve after a shocking start to the season and Glasgow have the chance to go third should they win their games in hand, therefore to suggest at all that Scotland do not provide a fully competitive part of the Pro12 is degrading and incredibly ignorant. Having said that, if you meant the attendances, they are indeed very poor, I'm not going to pretend otherwise but even they are on the up, Scotland's international side is under performing but this does not apply to the professional sides, the problem with Pro Rugby in Scotland is the amount of teams not the existing ones, and I imagine Italy suffer from similar problems.

Happy the italians are getting a better deal. Not sure on the new region. Better in the long run but could be hard the first two seasons.

As long as they have a good feeder system for both teams i'm sure they'll be fine. This 6N they have shown that their second string is as good as their first team. As long as the regions grow attendance they'll add to the league.

I also think this means that Zebre will be euro top teir again

A sign that things are settling down after a rough time? Hope so.