European issue the Italians.

In the Irish times about italy hosting the 2015 h-cup (if it goes ahead I noticed this quote.

“The Italian Federation also believes that it is crucial to keep four of our clubs in the Amlin Challenge Cup to allow our young players to develop. Overall, I am confident that an agreement can be reached.”

Its often overlooked that Italy enter 6 teams into Europe each year and they select the best two (ones from the Pro 12) for h-cup.

I thought that the 4 super 10 clubs entering the Almin was just a hang up from them entering 2 teams into the pro 12.

However the fact they want to keep entering 6 teams into Europe is interesting, and is it just a ploy?

What really would stop the WRU entering 4 pp teams into it as well? Or the SRU? IRFU wouldn't want to but as a point of principle may request 4 places for the AIB league teams.

If say only the top 6 in the pro 12 get into the top tier and bottom 6 go to the second tier whats to stop Cardiff RFC meeting Cardiff blues? Or Galweigens meeting Connacht, Munster meeting Shannon. Zebre meeting one of its feeder team?

It is an interesting one, from my point of view if you have gone down the regionalism route and playbin the pro 12 your domestic clubs lose out on entry to the European 2nd teir, one of the disadvanges of concentrating your resources that the French and English clubs overlook.

However if the super 10 as maybe the 4th league in europe want to enter teans into the 2nd tier Euro cup then why can't the other celtic nations and if so how can you fit 6 Pro 12 6 English 8 french 12 domestic league teams and other European teams into it and not have pro 12 teams meet feeder teams.

To solve this I always thought that the unions didn't enter domestic teams into the second teir and as such we had the h-cup qualification as we did, split the way we did.

But if this is up for talks, then doing the same as italy and entering domestic teams into the second teir must be included as the FIR are wanting it. It could mean Wales enter 8 teams into Europe and therefore get 8 shares to England's 12 as it is on a per team basis, likewise the SRU and IRFU? Meaning those unions take 32 shares to Englands 12 and Frances 14?

The issue with entering extra teams from scotland is do you try to create more regional teams? couldn't get anyone to watch a borders team. Or let the top four of the clubs enter? I somehow doubt the ability of the clubs to be competitive. Scotland has only a small player base and having taken the best players out of the clubs has left them weak.

Go for it. Ponty and Ayre (sp?) in the AC might be a better match for calvisano and the bucarest oaks.
Be it at the expense of some T14 or AP teams who regularly send 2nd string teams ? Even better.
Maybe we can send a few federale 1 teams to make up the numbers.

Maybe the AC future is to embrace semi amateurism

whocares wrote:Go for it. Ponty and Ayre (sp?) in the AC might be a better match for calvisano and the bucarest oaks.
Be it at the expense of some T14 or AP teams who regularly send 2nd string teams ? Even better.
Maybe we can send a few federale 1 teams to make up the numbers.

Maybe the AC future is to embrace semi amateurism

Why not, it would mirror the bunch of amateurs running the ERC.

Where's the money for these teams going to come from? How are you going to cover the costs?

Kingshu wrote:In the Irish times about italy hosting the 2015 h-cup (if it goes ahead I noticed this quote.

“The Italian Federation also believes that it is crucial to keep four of our clubs in the Amlin Challenge Cup to allow our young players to develop. Overall, I am confident that an agreement can be reached.”

Is this why FFR vetoed the 32 team competition proposal?

Kingshu wrote:In the Irish times about italy hosting the 2015 h-cup (if it goes ahead I noticed this quote.

“The Italian Federation also believes that it is crucial to keep four of our clubs in the Amlin Challenge Cup to allow our young players to develop. Overall, I am confident that an agreement can be reached.”

Its often overlooked that Italy enter 6 teams into Europe each year and they select the best two (ones from the Pro 12) for h-cup.

I thought that the 4 super 10 clubs entering the Almin was just a hang up from them entering 2 teams into the pro 12.

However the fact they want to keep entering 6 teams into Europe  is interesting, and is it just a ploy?

What really would stop the WRU entering 4 pp teams into it as well? Or the SRU? IRFU wouldn't want to but as a point of principle may request 4 places for the AIB league teams.

If say only the top 6 in the pro 12 get into the top tier and bottom 6 go to the second tier whats to stop Cardiff RFC meeting Cardiff blues? Or Galweigens meeting Connacht, Munster meeting Shannon. Zebre meeting one of its feeder team?

It is an interesting one, from my point of view if you have gone down the regionalism route and playbin the pro 12 your domestic clubs lose out on entry to the European 2nd teir, one of the disadvanges of concentrating your resources that the French and English clubs overlook.

However if the super 10 as maybe the 4th league in europe want to enter teans into the 2nd tier Euro cup then why can't the other celtic nations and if so how can you fit 6 Pro 12 6 English 8 french 12 domestic league teams and other European teams into it and not have pro 12 teams meet feeder teams.

To solve this I always thought that the unions didn't enter domestic teams into the second teir and as such we had the h-cup qualification as we did, split the way we did.

But if this is up for talks, then doing the same as italy and entering domestic teams into the second teir must be included as the FIR are wanting it. It could mean Wales enter 8 teams into Europe and therefore get 8 shares to England's 12 as it is on a per team basis, likewise the SRU and IRFU? Meaning those unions take 32 shares to Englands 12 and Frances 14?

Based on your logic England could then enter their championship teams and France the Pro D2. This would give the Rabo unions 32 shares to Englands 24 and Frances 30!

The proposal of the PRL/LNR was that their should be a third tier competition taking place earlier in the year with the top two teams then playing in the tier two competition. I would like a few English Championship and Pro D2 teams in the third level of competition as well as teams from around Europe.

I think it is helpful for Italy to have 4 of their clubs in the Amlin Challenge Cup.  This might actually help the domestic game in Italy more than having a franchise, located in the middle of nowhere, and a club in the HEC?  

Almost from the start, Italy had clubs in the Heineken Cup, so this is really the same as from the beginning.  I remember the Milan club involved in the Heineken Cup right from the first season or so.  Treviso, too, but I don't remember exactly.  .  

Having  domestic clubs in the Heineken cup was a bit closer to the original European Cup.  Ireland, of course, had their historical Provinces, and I think Scotland had regions, too (would like it if someone could clarify the status of the original Scottish teams in the European Cup).  So that left domestic clubs from Wales, England, France, and Italy.  

With that in mind, no reason for Italy not to enter their clubs in the second level, no?  In the Home Nations, we established a somewhat parallel competition for second level teams with the British and Irish Cup.  Glad that is not caught in the current imbroglio.  We see some great Rugby there.