Why England v Wales is the most important match this year

by GloriousEmpire Thu 06 Mar 2014, 8:20 pm

1. This England team have 30% inprovement available just through returnees from injury
2. England's curve is upward even with injuries
3. Wales have stagnated
4. Wales have little in the way of fringe players with serious claims to making the international team
5. Wales and England both share the pool of death 2015

Wales will need to beat England and beat them handsomely to have any confidence of progressing next year. Whereas if England stay even within 7 points and continue to perform well, then the chances of escaping their pool look high given the two teams differential in proven ability to beat Australia.

I'm picking England to avenge last years humiliation. For Wales to repeat it, would be a powerful statement likely to "put England back in their box" and reverse a few years worth of progress. A Wales demolition job on England would sent them back to a drawing board devoid of the tools to produce a plan B.

Simply no other match has quite so much hinging on it.

by DeludedOptimistorjustDave Thu 06 Mar 2014, 8:30 pm

Your 40!
No kidding I always thought you must be around 17 years old.

by whocares Thu 06 Mar 2014, 8:36 pm

As far as rugby is concerned, NZ-SA 4N games are the most important as they have been in the last 2 years. As far as folklore is concerned and bragging rights, yeah maybe England-wales is the most important.

by Taffineastbourne Thu 06 Mar 2014, 8:38 pm

You should never question a lady's age in polite circles.

by GloriousEmpire Thu 06 Mar 2014, 8:41 pm

whocares wrote:As far as rugby is concerned, NZ-SA 4N games are the most important as they have been in the last 2 years. As far as folklore is concerned and bragging rights, yeah maybe England-wales is the most important.

Don't agree, NZ and SA can both beat each other on any given day. We know this already. As with Oz.

NZ hold away outside of world cups, but at RWC I believe it's all even.

Wales v England currently represents I believe, an indicator of a change in power balance. Wales have been in the ascendency since 2008 in my opinion, but I think they have now peaked and England's upward vector will over take them. What remains to be seen is if Wales still hold enough advantage to keep them at bay until 2015 or whether the gap is already closed.

by whocares Thu 06 Mar 2014, 8:49 pm

If SA beats NZ before the RWC I think this is strong message they will be sending. More important to whatever happens this weekend.

by SecretFly Thu 06 Mar 2014, 8:49 pm

Not sure where the 30% improvement is going to come from as regards England. They're the in-form European side, they're churning at a more vicious and defiant (and effective) pace than I've seen from them in many years. I think injured returneees will be looking at England currently and wondering what more they can actually give to reclaim their positions. They might be able to give as much, but all of 30% more? Nope, I don't see where that would be coming from.

They'll need 30% more than the effort they put in last year against Wales to just close that gap with Wales. They seem to think they've achieved that now. We'll see at the weekend.

by Taffineastbourne Thu 06 Mar 2014, 8:50 pm

Wales are building to peak at WC 2015.Just thought it worth a mention.

by quinsforever Thu 06 Mar 2014, 8:57 pm

this year we are fortunate that every week there has been a big crunch 6N match. and whoever wins Eng v Wales thats going to be true til the last week.

its not every year that we have 4 genuine 6N winners. happy days.

by majesticimperialman Thu 06 Mar 2014, 9:08 pm

I do agree this week's game is the moast important game in the 6ns for a very long time.

How many points though does each team have to win by if they are to take the championship? What with 4 teams all in with a chance of winning.

I don't think we will see a score line like we had last year, for either team to be honest. I do know when it comes to kick off i will be a bag of nerves.

Really looking forward to it. No matter who wins to be honest.

by Taffineastbourne Thu 06 Mar 2014, 9:12 pm

Think that the WC has more importance than the 6N's this year.A one point win is huge for both sides.The points difference is a minor side show.

by Scratch Thu 06 Mar 2014, 9:16 pm

As far as England Wales go we will be having the same conversation next year, the only real significance of the fixture regards RWC is that it is at Twickenham. If Wales lose then so be it, it is not the end of the world with a 3/1 record we will just have to beat England next year at home and in our last meeting prior to RWC.

by Taffineastbourne Thu 06 Mar 2014, 9:23 pm

No.We will have a massive edge of we beat them at HQ again.Fortress Twickers will be in ruins when we get to the WC.
Sunday is huge.

by Scratch Thu 06 Mar 2014, 9:25 pm

It will be a Dark Place for sure.

by Poorfour Thu 06 Mar 2014, 9:30 pm

Taffineastbourne wrote:Wales are building to peak at WC 2015.Just thought it worth a mention.

But are they really? It seems to me that there are three big question marks:

i) Wales are still dependent on a number of key players who are either past their peak (e.g. Jenkins, AJones) or injury prone (e.g. Warburton, Roberts), and they don't have the strength in depth that an RWC winning squad needs.

ii) I do also think that Gatland prepares his players to a peak that they can sustain for 2 or 3 games but they rarely manage to keep the whole team fit for for all 5 games of a 6 Nations, let alone the 7 it would take to win the big one.

iii) We have also yet to see whether the players can execute Gatland's game plan well enough to overcome SH opposition.

by majesticimperialman Thu 06 Mar 2014, 9:36 pm

Poorfour wrote:
Taffineastbourne wrote:Wales are building to peak at WC 2015.Just thought it worth a mention.

But are they really? It seems to me that there are three big question marks:

i) Wales are still dependent on a number of key players who are either past their peak (e.g. Jenkins, AJones) or injury prone (e.g. Warburton, Roberts), and they don't have the strength in depth that an RWC winning squad needs.

ii) I do also think that Gatland prepares his players to a peak that they can sustain for 2 or 3 games but they rarely manage to keep the whole team fit for for all 5 games of a 6 Nations, let alone the 7 it would take to win the big one.

iii) We have also yet to see whether the players can execute Gatland's game plan well enough to overcome SH opposition.

I do agree with the Gatland's game to beat a SH opposition.

It does seem that Winning the 6ns is more importent to Wales/ Gatland than winning any game over the SH teams.

by Taffineastbourne Thu 06 Mar 2014, 9:37 pm

Poorfour wrote:
Taffineastbourne wrote:Wales are building to peak at WC 2015.Just thought it worth a mention.

But are they really? It seems to me that there are three big question marks:

i) Wales are still dependent on a number of key players who are either past their peak (e.g. Jenkins, AJones) or injury prone (e.g. Warburton, Roberts), and they don't have the strength in depth that an RWC winning squad needs.

ii) I do also think that Gatland prepares his players to a peak that they can sustain for 2 or 3 games but they rarely manage to keep the whole team fit for for all 5 games of a 6 Nations, let alone the 7 it would take to win the big one.

iii) We have also yet to see whether the players can execute Gatland's game plan well enough to overcome SH opposition.

Samson Lee,Paul James,Tipuric,Scott Williams,Owen Williams et all might beg to differ.Corey Allen might well get on the radar too.

by Scratch Thu 06 Mar 2014, 9:40 pm

Poorfour wrote:
Taffineastbourne wrote:Wales are building to peak at WC 2015.Just thought it worth a mention.

But are they really? It seems to me that there are three big question marks:

i) Wales are still dependent on a number of key players who are either past their peak (e.g. Jenkins, AJones) or injury prone (e.g. Warburton, Roberts), and they don't have the strength in depth that an RWC winning squad needs.

England have a massive advantage in the numbers of players they can draw upon over the Welsh. With that in mind Wales have more than outperformed the English since before RWC 2011 in NH competition and failed to kick on in the SH. Agreed prop replacements are a concern but by no means are Wales dependent on Jenkins as his injury record has been very poor in recent years and PJ is a great replacement. AJ is more of a worry but Lee will come good. We have huge strength in depth at lock, and versatility across the back row. As for the backs, versatility and strength in depth at 10 -15. A smaller cadre true but plenty of players who can come in and do a job. Injury affects us more but what i find amusing about this argument si that now that England are picking a consistent side they are seeing results, that is the main difference between this year and last. Wales success is based on consistency of selection in a smaller squad. Age is not a worry whatsoever.

ii) I do also think that Gatland prepares his players to a peak that they can sustain for 2 or 3 games but they rarely manage to keep the whole team fit for for all 5 games of a 6 Nations, let alone the 7 it would take to win the big one.
This is wrong. With a 6 nations record of 2 losses from 13 games since the last RWC it is clear Wales are consistent performers in the competition inspite of injuries.

iii) We have also yet to see whether the players can execute Gatland's game plan well enough to overcome SH opposition.

We do and this is the issue more than anything. My personal feeling is Gatland has been a double edged sword. Had he not pursued his Lions ambitions we may have cracked that SH hoodoo but unless we do it in the summer with at least 1 win then i cannot see a great autumn for us and though i think we will get to the 1/4s in the RWC we need to get there having beaten Aus and SA this year.

by DeludedOptimistorjustDave Thu 06 Mar 2014, 9:40 pm

Taffineastbourne wrote:Wales are building to peak at WC 2015.Just thought it worth a mention.

honestly who the hell do you think you are? How dare you suggest such things! Every man and his dog knows wales are but a side show come the worldcup, England and England alone prepare for world cups so don't ever ever ever suggest this team of pensioners with an average age of 27 can even think about next years World Cup! Because as proven in the media and English fans this welsh team will be prehistoric in 18 months time.
So get back in your box pal and remain in awe at this young English team that will walk the World Cup next year.

by disneychilly Thu 06 Mar 2014, 10:11 pm

whocares wrote:If SA beats NZ before the RWC I think this is strong message they will be sending. More important to whatever happens this weekend.

NZ lost to SA in 11 before that. SA lost to NZ in 07. Both losing teams won the Cup.

Personally all this message sending malarkey matters not one iota to me. I've gone through several seasons just before World Cups with varying results only to have my team man sausage it up at the tournament. Just one game ruins it. It's crazy how much influence on perception one game can have in hindsight. Take one certain game out of NZ's record. One out of 100 odd Henry coached with an 85% success rate and he barely got a pass mark since he barely won the next Cup's final.

So personally, I fear this could be another 1998 for NZ, but they are managing aging players a lot better and have proven understudies. I'm just going to keep enjoying my rugby and just think feck it, manure happens when next October rolls around. You can prep all you want, but knockout tournaments will always throw up enough to make you think it's a bit of a lottery at time.

by lostinwales Fri 07 Mar 2014, 10:42 am

Poorfour wrote:
Taffineastbourne wrote:Wales are building to peak at WC 2015.Just thought it worth a mention.

But are they really? It seems to me that there are three big question marks:

i) Wales are still dependent on a number of key players who are either past their peak (e.g. Jenkins, AJones) or injury prone (e.g. Warburton, Roberts), and they don't have the strength in depth that an RWC winning squad needs.

ii) I do also think that Gatland prepares his players to a peak that they can sustain for 2 or 3 games but they rarely manage to keep the whole team fit for for all 5 games of a 6 Nations, let alone the 7 it would take to win the big one.

iii) We have also yet to see whether the players can execute Gatland's game plan well enough to overcome SH opposition.

I'd also add that Wales seem to be capable of mixing up awful performances with the good ones on a regular basis. England have only really had the one absolute stinker since the house of Lancaster came to power.

by Jimpy Fri 07 Mar 2014, 11:11 am

Poorfour wrote:
Taffineastbourne wrote:Wales are building to peak at WC 2015.Just thought it worth a mention.

But are they really? It seems to me that there are three big question marks:

i) Wales are still dependent on a number of key players who are either past their peak (e.g. Jenkins, AJones) or injury prone (e.g. Warburton, Roberts), and they don't have the strength in depth that an RWC winning squad needs.

ii) I do also think that Gatland prepares his players to a peak that they can sustain for 2 or 3 games but they rarely manage to keep the whole team fit for for all 5 games of a 6 Nations, let alone the 7 it would take to win the big one.

iii) We have also yet to see whether the players can execute Gatland's game plan well enough to overcome SH opposition.

Well, Gatland's team only has one game plan, so it's no surprise they've managed to do so well up until now, they've learnt it parrot fashion.

I tend to agree with some other posters, it seems quite obvious that Wales have indeed peaked. The level of their performances has dropped tangibly, and has been quite erratic of late.

by **Biltong** Fri 07 Mar 2014, 11:22 am

These are one off games, Wales and England have beaten each other enough times to both believe they can beat them during a RWC match.

The same applies for many teams, right now the execution and style of play in my view is more important, considering next year is RWC.

Coaches right now have a last go this year and finding the correct attacking plan, execute breakdowns, fix their line outs and scrums.

Discipline will play a huge role in the RWC as well.

Whoever wins now isn't going to depict who will win next year, for that there are far too many variables until then.

Injuries and final squads with enough depth to have the necessary backup and experience next year.

I see this year's results having little bearing on the RWC, and the improvement teams make in terms of squad depth, execution etc as mote vital.

by beshocked Fri 07 Mar 2014, 11:23 am

GloriousEmpire wrote:
whocares wrote:As far as rugby is concerned, NZ-SA 4N games are the most important as they have been in the last 2 years. As far as folklore is concerned and bragging rights, yeah maybe England-wales is the most important.

Don't agree, NZ and SA can both beat each other on any given day. We know this already. As with Oz.

NZ hold away outside of world cups, but at RWC I believe it's all even.

Wales v England currently represents I believe, an indicator of a change in power balance. Wales have been in the ascendency since 2008 in my opinion, but I think they have now peaked and England's upward vector will over take them. What remains to be seen is if Wales still hold enough advantage to keep them at bay until 2015 or whether the gap is already closed.

You say Wales have been in the ascendency but since Gatland has been in charge they have not beaten a tri nations side. They have struggled against the SH sides in general too.

Fiji are extremely likely to be in the same group as England,Wales and Australia. They will likely see Wales as the most likely foes they can beat.

Wales' confidence has always been based upon their NH record but a loss to England would dent their feeling of invincibility against their old foe.

England will of course be playing all their games at Twickenham. Somewhere they should feel confident of beating any side.

by rainbow-warrior Fri 07 Mar 2014, 11:25 am

Jimpy wrote:
Poorfour wrote:
Taffineastbourne wrote:Wales are building to peak at WC 2015.Just thought it worth a mention.

But are they really? It seems to me that there are three big question marks:

i) Wales are still dependent on a number of key players who are either past their peak (e.g. Jenkins, AJones) or injury prone (e.g. Warburton, Roberts), and they don't have the strength in depth that an RWC winning squad needs.

ii) I do also think that Gatland prepares his players to a peak that they can sustain for 2 or 3 games but they rarely manage to keep the whole team fit for for all 5 games of a 6 Nations, let alone the 7 it would take to win the big one.

iii) We have also yet to see whether the players can execute Gatland's game plan well enough to overcome SH opposition.

Well, Gatland's team only has one game plan, so it's no surprise they've managed to do so well up until now, they've learnt it parrot fashion.

I tend to agree with some other posters, it seems quite obvious that Wales have indeed peaked. The level of their performances has dropped tangibly, and has been quite erratic of late.

We still stuff England, that's pretty cool aye Yahoo

by butterfingers Fri 07 Mar 2014, 11:28 am

This thread is making me extremely nervous...

I agree Wales have shown some real patchy form of late, but they did the same last year, in the AI's and against Ireland.

Also Jones has struggled in the scrum this season, but there are small signs he is getting to grips with the new engage, and we are missing our best loosey, and tighty.

Until now I think we are the team in form, but if we're honest isn't that based around 2/3 players too? and these key players are all quins boys are they not? what if Care or Brown falls early?

I see us as favourites, but if anyone writes Wales off more fool them, I thought we were favourites last year too!

Gatland always has a card up his sleeve, and the Welsh boys seem to outperform themselves when playing us.

I'll take nothing for granted and will not be jolly 5 minutes before kick off.

by Jimpy Fri 07 Mar 2014, 11:32 am

rainbow-warrior wrote:
Jimpy wrote:
Poorfour wrote:
Taffineastbourne wrote:Wales are building to peak at WC 2015.Just thought it worth a mention.

But are they really? It seems to me that there are three big question marks:

i) Wales are still dependent on a number of key players who are either past their peak (e.g. Jenkins, AJones) or injury prone (e.g. Warburton, Roberts), and they don't have the strength in depth that an RWC winning squad needs.

ii) I do also think that Gatland prepares his players to a peak that they can sustain for 2 or 3 games but they rarely manage to keep the whole team fit for for all 5 games of a 6 Nations, let alone the 7 it would take to win the big one.

iii) We have also yet to see whether the players can execute Gatland's game plan well enough to overcome SH opposition.

Well, Gatland's team only has one game plan, so it's no surprise they've managed to do so well up until now, they've learnt it parrot fashion.

I tend to agree with some other posters, it seems quite obvious that Wales have indeed peaked. The level of their performances has dropped tangibly, and has been quite erratic of late.

We still stuff England, that's pretty cool aye

Once in a blue moon perhaps, not 62 points to 5 though, that would be just humiliating.

by rainbow-warrior Fri 07 Mar 2014, 11:34 am

Jimpy wrote:
rainbow-warrior wrote:
Jimpy wrote:
Poorfour wrote:
Taffineastbourne wrote:Wales are building to peak at WC 2015.Just thought it worth a mention.

But are they really? It seems to me that there are three big question marks:

i) Wales are still dependent on a number of key players who are either past their peak (e.g. Jenkins, AJones) or injury prone (e.g. Warburton, Roberts), and they don't have the strength in depth that an RWC winning squad needs.

ii) I do also think that Gatland prepares his players to a peak that they can sustain for 2 or 3 games but they rarely manage to keep the whole team fit for for all 5 games of a 6 Nations, let alone the 7 it would take to win the big one.

iii) We have also yet to see whether the players can execute Gatland's game plan well enough to overcome SH opposition.

Well, Gatland's team only has one game plan, so it's no surprise they've managed to do so well up until now, they've learnt it parrot fashion.

I tend to agree with some other posters, it seems quite obvious that Wales have indeed peaked. The level of their performances has dropped tangibly, and has been quite erratic of late.

................yawn, and how many times more have you, you big country you beaten Wales?

We still stuff England, that's pretty cool aye

Once in a blue moon perhaps, not 62 points to 5 though, that would be just humiliating.

by rainbow-warrior Fri 07 Mar 2014, 11:40 am

30 - 3 and 3 - 0 ain't so bad there lad

by Jimpy Fri 07 Mar 2014, 11:45 am

rainbow-warrior wrote:30 - 3 and 3 - 0 ain't so bad there lad

There there, keep smiling that inane grin. If Wales beating England makes you happy, then crack on. Save your sorrow for when Wales meet SH opposition. Or Japan.

by Metal Tiger Fri 07 Mar 2014, 11:46 am

rainbow-warrior wrote:
Jimpy wrote:
rainbow-warrior wrote:
Jimpy wrote:
Poorfour wrote:
Taffineastbourne wrote:Wales are building to peak at WC 2015.Just thought it worth a mention.

But are they really? It seems to me that there are three big question marks:

i) Wales are still dependent on a number of key players who are either past their peak (e.g. Jenkins, AJones) or injury prone (e.g. Warburton, Roberts), and they don't have the strength in depth that an RWC winning squad needs.

ii) I do also think that Gatland prepares his players to a peak that they can sustain for 2 or 3 games but they rarely manage to keep the whole team fit for for all 5 games of a 6 Nations, let alone the 7 it would take to win the big one.

iii) We have also yet to see whether the players can execute Gatland's game plan well enough to overcome SH opposition.

Well, Gatland's team only has one game plan, so it's no surprise they've managed to do so well up until now, they've learnt it parrot fashion.

I tend to agree with some other posters, it seems quite obvious that Wales have indeed peaked. The level of their performances has dropped tangibly, and has been quite erratic of late.

................yawn, and how many times more have you, you big country you beaten Wales?

We still stuff England, that's pretty cool aye

Once in a blue moon perhaps, not 62 points to 5 though, that would be just humiliating.

Glad to see you've taken a break from your busy schedule of kiwi-baiting...

Anywho...we've beaten wales 56 times, the same as you have beaten us. Oh and 12 draws i think.

by rainbow-warrior Fri 07 Mar 2014, 11:58 am

Metal Tiger wrote:
rainbow-warrior wrote:
Jimpy wrote:
rainbow-warrior wrote:
Jimpy wrote:
Poorfour wrote:
Taffineastbourne wrote:Wales are building to peak at WC 2015.Just thought it worth a mention.

But are they really? It seems to me that there are three big question marks:

i) Wales are still dependent on a number of key players who are either past their peak (e.g. Jenkins, AJones) or injury prone (e.g. Warburton, Roberts), and they don't have the strength in depth that an RWC winning squad needs.

ii) I do also think that Gatland prepares his players to a peak that they can sustain for 2 or 3 games but they rarely manage to keep the whole team fit for for all 5 games of a 6 Nations, let alone the 7 it would take to win the big one.

iii) We have also yet to see whether the players can execute Gatland's game plan well enough to overcome SH opposition.

Well, Gatland's team only has one game plan, so it's no surprise they've managed to do so well up until now, they've learnt it parrot fashion.

I tend to agree with some other posters, it seems quite obvious that Wales have indeed peaked. The level of their performances has dropped tangibly, and has been quite erratic of late.

................yawn, and how many times more have you, you big country you beaten Wales?

We still stuff England, that's pretty cool aye

Once in a blue moon perhaps, not 62 points to 5 though, that would be just humiliating.

Glad to see you've taken a break from your busy schedule of kiwi-baiting...

Anywho...we've beaten wales 56 times, the same as you have beaten us. Oh and 12 draws i think.

I live in New Zealand, I only bait here, for some reason the small % of them who are saddo's live on this board. Sarcasm is little known in this outpost of the (dare I use the word 'empire') so winding up is sooooooooooo easy.

by GunsGerms Fri 07 Mar 2014, 12:58 pm

GloriousEmpire wrote:1. This England team have 30% inprovement available just through returnees from injury
2. England's curve is upward even with injuries

All teams have injuries. Ireland's are just as bad as Englands for example.

GloriousEmpire wrote:
3. Wales have stagnated

Judge them after this match.

GloriousEmpire wrote:
4. Wales have little in the way of fringe players with serious claims to making the international team

Wales were runner up in the 2013 IRB under 20 world cup final. Surely they have good young players coming through.

GloriousEmpire wrote:
5. Wales and England both share the pool of death 2015

Wales will need to beat England and beat them handsomely to have any confidence of progressing next year. Whereas if England stay even within 7 points and continue to perform well, then the chances of escaping their pool look high given the two teams differential in proven ability to beat Australia.

I'm picking England to avenge last years humiliation. For Wales to repeat it, would be a powerful statement likely to "put England back in their box" and reverse a few years worth of progress. A Wales demolition job on England would sent them back to a drawing board devoid of the tools to produce a plan B.

Simply no other match has quite so much hinging on it.

All the top four head to head games in the six nations have as much hindging on it. Ireland and France play on the last day which is a potential championship decider and both teams are in the same group. How does that game not have as much riding on it?

by Taffineastbourne Fri 07 Mar 2014, 1:17 pm

Biltong wrote:These are one off games, Wales and England have beaten each other enough times to both believe they can beat them during a RWC match.

The same applies for many teams, right now the execution and style of play in my view is more important, considering next year is RWC.

Coaches right now have a last go this year and finding the correct attacking plan, execute breakdowns, fix their line outs and scrums.

Discipline will play a huge role in the RWC as well.

Whoever wins now isn't going to depict who will win next year, for that there are far too many variables until then.

Injuries and final squads with enough depth to have the necessary backup and experience next year.

I see this year's results having little bearing on the RWC, and the improvement teams make in terms of squad depth, execution etc as mote vital.

I simply cannot agree.
This is the last time that the sides meet at Twickers before their WC encounter.If Wales can notch up a W it will totally undermine the fortress that Lancaster wants to develop in order to maximise England's home advantage as WC hosts.

by **Biltong** Fri 07 Mar 2014, 1:25 pm

Taffineastbourne wrote:
Biltong wrote:These are one off games, Wales and England have beaten each other enough times to both believe they can beat them during a RWC match.

The same applies for many teams, right now the execution and style of play in my view is more important, considering next year is RWC.

Coaches right now have a last go this year and finding the correct attacking plan, execute breakdowns, fix their line outs and scrums.

Discipline will play a huge role in the RWC as well.

Whoever wins now isn't going to depict who will win next year, for that there are far too many variables until then.

Injuries and final squads with enough depth to have the necessary backup and experience next year.

I see this year's results having little bearing on the RWC, and the improvement teams make in terms of squad depth, execution etc as mote vital.
I simply cannot agree.
This is the last time that the sides meet at Twickers before their WC encounter.If Wales can notch up a W it will totally undermine the fortress that Lancaster wants to develop in order to maximise England's home advantage as WC hosts.

The result of this match may give confidence to the victor, but will not break the belief of the loser as the record between these two nations are so close, hence my belief that other factors will play a bigger role.

by Taffineastbourne Fri 07 Mar 2014, 1:31 pm

Wales have won the last three encounters.Another W on Sunday would see that trail grow and boost our WC chances.

by GunsGerms Fri 07 Mar 2014, 1:33 pm

Cant argue with that really.

by GunsGerms Fri 07 Mar 2014, 1:33 pm

Hoping for a marginal Wales win.

by No 7&1/2 Fri 07 Mar 2014, 1:36 pm

If it was England and Wales settled teams possibly but we all know both 1st choice props, best midfielder and likely starting wings are out. A third of a team to change makes a big difference. Likewise Wales don't have their full strength out either.

by SecretFly Fri 07 Mar 2014, 1:37 pm

The more wins though..the closer you get to the turn-over result. Wink

Maybe as a counter-intuitive thought, Wales should prefer a loss? Get the loss that's inevitably coming out of the way and then look forward to a WC under re-set conditions.

by GunsGerms Fri 07 Mar 2014, 1:38 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:If it was England and Wales settled teams possibly but we all know both 1st choice props, best midfielder and likely starting wings are out. A third of a team to change makes a big difference. Likewise Wales don't have their full strength out either.

These days you almost have to assume you will be playing world cup games with injuries too.

by No 7&1/2 Fri 07 Mar 2014, 1:42 pm

Of course there will be injuries, for both sides too. Another reason why this game isn't the be all and end all. lots of factors.

by GunsGerms Fri 07 Mar 2014, 1:47 pm

There is a triple crown on the line for England though so it is very important in that respect. Wales the last team to win the triple crown the year before last. These days they are hard enough to win.

by maestegmafia Fri 07 Mar 2014, 2:05 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:I do agree this week's game is the moast important game in the 6ns for a very long time.

Last years game was even more important surely, what with England expecting to win and take their first grandslam in over a decade...

by Breadvan Fri 07 Mar 2014, 2:11 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:I do agree this week's game is the moast important game in the 6ns for a very long time.

Last years game was even more important surely, what with England expecting to win and take their first grandslam in over a decade...

:roll:sly dig alert...

by jimmyinthewell68 Fri 07 Mar 2014, 2:38 pm

think its the decider of who will be competing with Ireland for the championship

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Fri 07 Mar 2014, 3:08 pm

I found this an interesting piece of analysis about the specific roles that Gatlandball requires of each player: http://dementedmole.com/2014/03/04/ruck-marks-ireland-vs-wales-2014/#more-3892

by Scratch Fri 07 Mar 2014, 3:52 pm

Jimpy wrote:
Poorfour wrote:
Taffineastbourne wrote:Wales are building to peak at WC 2015.Just thought it worth a mention.

But are they really? It seems to me that there are three big question marks:

i) Wales are still dependent on a number of key players who are either past their peak (e.g. Jenkins, AJones) or injury prone (e.g. Warburton, Roberts), and they don't have the strength in depth that an RWC winning squad needs.

ii) I do also think that Gatland prepares his players to a peak that they can sustain for 2 or 3 games but they rarely manage to keep the whole team fit for for all 5 games of a 6 Nations, let alone the 7 it would take to win the big one.

iii) We have also yet to see whether the players can execute Gatland's game plan well enough to overcome SH opposition.

Well, Gatland's team only has one game plan, so it's no surprise they've managed to do so well up until now, they've learnt it parrot fashion.

I tend to agree with some other posters, it seems quite obvious that Wales have indeed peaked. The level of their performances has dropped tangibly, and has been quite erratic of late.

Empty vessels really do make the most noise

by beshocked Fri 07 Mar 2014, 4:11 pm

Scratch to be fair to Jimpy do you think that Gatland is the right man to lead Wales towards a rise in the world rankings?

Wales are a good side with some excellent players but they have not made enough progress in my opinion despite doing very well in the 6 nations under Gatland.

NZ,South Africa,Australia are the benchmark in that order. Do you think Gatland can find the winning formula?

There is no doubt Gatland's coaching credentials - he's been a very successful coach at club and for Wales in the 6 nations but the SH teams are something he has not yet cracked for Wales.

England are not the best side in the world (4th is a fair ranking) but they have done relatively respectfully under Lancaster vs the tri nations and pretty well in the 6 nations so far. Not the finished article of course but every England fan knows that.

I feel that the England team has more potential than the Welsh one.

by Scratch Fri 07 Mar 2014, 4:26 pm

beshocked wrote:Scratch to be fair to Jimpy do you think that Gatland is the right man to lead Wales towards a rise in the world rankings?

Wales are a good side with some excellent players but they have not made enough progress in my opinion despite doing very well in the 6 nations under Gatland.

NZ,South Africa,Australia are the benchmark in that order. Do you think Gatland can find the winning formula?

There is no doubt Gatland's coaching credentials - he's been a very successful coach at club and for Wales in the 6 nations but the SH teams are something he has not yet cracked for Wales.

England are not the best side in the world (4th is a fair ranking) but they have done relatively respectfully under Lancaster vs the tri nations and pretty well in the 6 nations so far. Not the finished article of course but every England fan knows that.

I feel that the England team has more potential than the Welsh one.

If he successfully defends this title, I do yes, but he has to be at work.

I believe the biggest issue we face is strength in depth and Gatland's commitment to the role. Wales can beat SH sides, cue original jokes about ton their day etc. So why haven't we?

If i went to my boss and said, look, i know I am in charge of this major project but i want to go off for a year and do something else and then can i come back….well, i know his answer. Fact is that has held us back. We also have abandoned a style of rugby- offload heads up chase the game - for another - size and power direct running.

Comparisons of potential between England and Wales in this comp make me laugh. They squandered a game v France but because they beat Ireland are now favorites v double champs having not even scored a try v us under Stewie let alone beaten us, so, yes i guess their potential is greater because if they do score one then they will have improved by 100%! They haven't beaten us for nearly 3 years.

I don't count the NZ win as NZ were sick. They are young and inexperienced, so, they are full of potential but will they realize it…..sunday will tell us if they have potential to realize their potential.

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