Plausible XV of the 6N to date?

15. Brown
14. Huget
13. Burrell
12. Fofana
11. North
10. Sexton
9. Care
1. Healy
2. Hartley
3. Ross
4. Lawes
5. Launchbury
6. O'Mahony
7. Robshaw
8. Faletau
 
Some marginal choices there perhaps. Burrell or O'Driscoll? No 12 totally stamped his authority on the season, so Fofana by default. Hartley or Best? Is Robshaw a fair shout and should POC have a berth? There are 7 Englishmen, which may be a little high on the balance of the season. On the other hand, with a number of the Welsh a little below par and most of the French and Scots well below that level, it's a bit difficult to see what else to do.

I'm not having a go but I really don't see what faletau offers?

He isn't a big powerful No8 like billy V or Morgan or a game changer like Sergio or piccamoles

He's played in all four matches, to a consistently good standard, in a side that has been somewhat up and down this year. Would have considered Billy V if he had played more than 2.5 matches, but Picamoles has played 3 and disgraced himself in the third, so he doesn't get the gig so far in 2014.

Faletau is more in the mould of Read imo, not near his calibre yet obviously, but he offers that danger around the outside channels, using his pace (he isint small either at 6ft 4!!!) and does a lot of hard yards, and defence he makes a lot of tackles.

in regards to the team, I would argue north has not done that much tbh, however he hasn't had a chance with time on the ball and does look dangerous on the ball. However trimble while being a left winger has been playing pretty well.

Can I make a case for a Scot? Gray? Competing with Lawes / Launchberry. Maybe not. Denton? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

*sulks*

Not a bad XV there, Cap'n, and only one choice that I'd object to. I love Mike Ross dearly (former Harlequin and all) but he's not the best TH of the tournament by a long, long chalk. I would suggest Mas is probably top of the pile, followed by Castrogiovanni with Davy Wilson earning an honourable mention for the impact he's had in his two matches (dare I suggest that he should probably supplant Cole as first choice?)

I honestly did try, TJ. I think Gray might be 4th in my lock list; the centres wouldn't be far off either and Denton, if he had done the full season in situ at 8, rather than being the victim of Professor Yaffle's strange computations, might have gone closer than anyone. Unfortunately, such was the nature of the first two capitulations that all the Scots started a fair way behind the eight-ball.

*sulks more*

At least we have the man for the job of coach.

Poorfour, I certainly agree that Ross isn't the best tight-head in the tournament in general terms, but I might argue that he has done a great job this year in a team that has basically had the edge in the tight against all opposition in 2014. Seeing Mas and co shunted off their ball by the Scottish tight five yesterday kind of decided me in Ross's favour. Castro has been OK, but barely played on Saturday, Cole and Wilson have played two games each, so Ross's turn in the sun is merited in 2014, I reckon.

Poorfour wrote:Not a bad XV there, Cap'n, and only one choice that I'd object to. I love Mike Ross dearly (former Harlequin and all) but he's not the best TH of the tournament by a long, long chalk. I would suggest Mas is probably top of the pile, followed by Castrogiovanni with Davy Wilson earning an honourable mention for the impact he's had in his two matches (dare I suggest that he should probably supplant Cole as first choice?)

Based on 2 games? Bit early to suggest that, but the competition will be good and it should provide a kick up the behind of Cole.

captain carrantuohil wrote:Poorfour, I certainly agree that Ross isn't the best tight-head in the tournament in general terms, but I might argue that he has done a great job this year in a team that has basically had the edge in the tight against all opposition in 2014. Seeing Mas and co shunted off their ball by the Scottish tight five yesterday kind of decided me in Ross's favour. Castro has been OK, but barely played on Saturday, Cole and Wilson have played two games each, so Ross's turn in the sun is merited in 2014, I reckon.

You make a good case. I suppose that he can claim to have played consistently and not been destroyed by any of his opponents, and this year that's a proud boast. If Wilson had been fit at the start of the tournament,,, but he wasn't. So I'll accept Rossy as the best TH of the tournament so far. Doesn't say much about the state of European tightheaddery, though.

Agreed. Nose-dived might be the word we're looking for, but I'm not sure that world tight-headery is looking that marvellous at the minute. Effect of the new scrum regs, perhaps?

I'll go position by position:

FB: relatively easy choice here. Halfpenny's kicking has been immaculate, and his defense solid as always (not so great at passing though). Kearney has been generally excellent, but Brown has been outstanding and is a serious contender for player of the tournament. He takes this one.

Wings: No one mentioned Trimble yet? I think he's been very good in all matches, barely put a foot wrong. North and Cuthbert haven't reallly had an opportunity to shine compared to previous years (North has played in the centre mostly anyway), England's wings a work in progress. Huget has had a very good tournament in an otherwise pretty dire side, and he takes the other spot.

OC: two stand-out candidates in Burrell and BOD. BOD simply superb vs Italy but not as prominent in some other matches, while Burrell has been consistently very good. BOD just nicks it for me.

IC: as mentioned no real stand-outs. 12T has improved as the tournament has gone on, Roberts has had his moments as has Fofana, D'Arcy may allow BOD to shine but hasn't himself set the world alight. Scott has been a mixed bag. I confess I'm at a loss here. Am I allowed to cheat and go with Burrell and pick BOD outside him? No? Oh well, I'll go Roberts then, simply because I think he'll work best alongside BOD.

FH: another position where the only serious contenders are from England and Ireland. Farrell's place kicking has been a bit below par, but he' been very solid in all aspects of his game, and is developing really nicely. Sexton though, despite a slight meltdown against England for 20 minutes, was superb against Wales and Italy, and has that little bit extra.

SH: no contest. Care walks this one. At the heart of all of England's good things, has added new (and much-needed) dynamism to England's attack.

LH: Healy takes this one easily. Scrummaged well, and a beast with ball in hand. Marler deserves a mention having had a strong tournament, but Healy's been a cut above.

HK: before these games I'd have though Hartley was comfortably in pole position here. However, Best had a strong game against Italy and Hartley despite doing his basics well gave away too many penalties. Still have Hartley slightly ahead here.

TH: no stand-outs. Wilson has put in a good shift but not played enough, Jones looks on he slide. Mas struggled against Wales. Ross has been solid throughout and that's enough for this one.

SR: Lawes has been excellent in pretty much all the games, and has really nailed down his place. O'Connell and Launchbury are the two main contenders for the other spot, and on this occasion I'm siding with Launchbury whose extra work at the breakdown gets him the nod.

BS Flanker: POM has really come into his own in this tournament for me. Wood has been his usual understated very good self, while Lydiate continues to tackle, but the Irishman has this one.

OS Flanker: Robshaw continues to prove his doubters wrong. Consistently very good, and has become a vital linkman in England's attacking play, demonstrated by his offload which led to England's try against Ireland.

N°8: Faletau has had good moments, but I'm going to give this one to Vunipola. I know he's only played two and a half games, but he was very good in those, and at the heart of much of England's go-forward. After four games, I think he's just played enough (would probably not pick him next week, if that makes sense).

So there you go:
Brown
Huget
BOD
Roberts
Trimble
Sexton
Care
Vunipola
Robshaw
POM
Lawes
Launchbury
Ross
Hartley
Healy

7 English, 6 Irish, 1 French and 1 Welsh.

In the centres I'd be tempted to pick Burrell in his more natural 12 position and partner him with BOD as I feel they've been the best 2 centres this year and would partner each other well with Burrell playing the Roberts crash-ball role. I'd also, despite his injury, be tempted to find a slot for Nyanga in the backrow who I thought was initially exceptional.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:I'll go position by position:

FB: relatively easy choice here. Halfpenny's kicking has been immaculate, and his defense solid as always (not so great at passing though). Kearney has been generally excellent, but Brown has been outstanding and is a serious contender for player of the tournament. He takes this one.

Wings: No one mentioned Trimble yet? I think he's been very good in all matches, barely put a foot wrong. North and Cuthbert haven't reallly had an opportunity to shine compared to previous years (North has played in the centre mostly anyway), England's wings a work in progress. Huget has had a very good tournament in an otherwise pretty dire side, and he takes the other spot.

OC: two stand-out candidates in Burrell and BOD. BOD simply superb vs Italy but not as prominent in some other matches, while Burrell has been consistently very good. BOD just nicks it for me.

IC: as mentioned no real stand-outs. 12T has improved as the tournament has gone on, Roberts has had his moments as has Fofana, D'Arcy may allow BOD to shine but hasn't himself set the world alight. Scott has been a mixed bag. I confess I'm at a loss here. Am I allowed to cheat and go with Burrell and pick BOD outside him? No? Oh well, I'll go Roberts then, simply because I think he'll work best alongside BOD.

FH: another position where the only serious contenders are from England and Ireland. Farrell's place kicking has been a bit below par, but he' been very solid in all aspects of his game, and is developing really nicely. Sexton though, despite a slight meltdown against England for 20 minutes, was superb against Wales and Italy, and has that little bit extra.

SH: no contest. Care walks this one. At the heart of all of England's good things, has added new (and much-needed) dynamism to England's attack.

LH: Healy takes this one easily. Scrummaged well, and a beast with ball in hand. Marler deserves a mention having had a strong tournament, but Healy's been a cut above.

HK: before these games I'd have though Hartley was comfortably in pole position here. However, Best had a strong game against Italy and Hartley despite doing his basics well gave away too many penalties. Still have Hartley slightly ahead here.

TH: no stand-outs. Wilson has put in a good shift but not played enough, Jones looks on he slide. Mas struggled against Wales. Ross has been solid throughout and that's enough for this one.

SR: Lawes has been excellent in pretty much all the games, and has really nailed down his place. O'Connell and Launchbury are the two main contenders for the other spot, and on this occasion I'm siding with Launchbury whose extra work at the breakdown gets him the nod.

BS Flanker: POM has really come into his own in this tournament for me. Wood has been his usual understated very good self, while Lydiate continues to tackle, but the Irishman has this one.

OS Flanker: Robshaw continues to prove his doubters wrong. Consistently very good, and has become a vital linkman in England's attacking play, demonstrated by his offload which led to England's try against Ireland.

N°8: Faletau has had good moments, but I'm going to give this one to Vunipola. I know he's only played two and a half games, but he was very good in those, and at the heart of much of England's go-forward. After four games, I think he's just played enough (would probably not pick him next week, if that makes sense).

So there you go:
Brown
Huget
BOD
Roberts
Trimble
Sexton
Care
Vunipola
Robshaw
POM
Lawes
Launchbury
Ross
Hartley
Healy

7 English, 6 Irish, 1 French and 1 Welsh.

Well reasoned. I would maybe go with Denton at 8 actually and I would cheat and move Burrell to 12. Campagnaro would be up there too.

1/2p goal kicking should not be considered when talking about being a good FB

Ive forgotten what Halfpenny can actually do as a rugby player...aside from Kick.

I would say Matt Scott for inside center.

profitius wrote:I would say Matt Scott for inside center.

Both the Scottish centres have looked pretty good. I would still go for Fofana and Burrell though or Burrell and BOD if positional switches are allowed.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Ive forgotten what Halfpenny can actually do as a rugby player...aside from Kick.

He has shown he can catch and tackle. The lack of attacking prowess is probably down to Gatland.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Ive forgotten what Halfpenny can actually do as a rugby player...aside from Kick.

I agree he has become a bit of a one trick pony, it would be great (as a rugby fan) to see him on the wing again imo.

nathan wrote:Based on 2 games? Bit early to suggest that, but the competition will be good and it should provide a kick up the behind of Cole.

I just hope now we have a couple of player who (when Cole gets fit) can share the tighthead position instead of Cole playing 78-80mins ever game

15. Brown
14. Trimble
13. O'Driscoll
12. Fofana
11. Huget
10. Sexton
9. Care
1. Healy
2. Best
3. Ross
4. Lawes
5. Launchbury
6. O'Mahony
7. Robshaw
8. Heaslip

rodders wrote:15. Brown
14. Trimble
13. O'Driscoll
12. Fofana
11. Huget
10. Sexton
9. Care
1. Healy
2. Best
3. Ross
4. Lawes
5. Launchbury
6. O'Mahony
7. Robshaw
8. Heaslip

What has BOD done to justify inclusion? He has looked solid but not exceptional.

Here we go. He's had an excellent tournament so far in my opinion - not if you are comparing him to himself 10 years ago - but if you are to all the other outside centres this year then only Burrell comes close.

No tries yet but 4 assists so far that I can recall plus, some good line breaks and a lot of outstanding defensive and breakdown work across all the games.

If that's not enough for you then pick your own team but this is mine.

Exiledinborders wrote:

rodders wrote:15. Brown
14. Trimble
13. O'Driscoll
12. Fofana
11. Huget
10. Sexton
9. Care
1. Healy
2. Best
3. Ross
4. Lawes
5. Launchbury
6. O'Mahony
7. Robshaw
8. Heaslip

What has BOD done to justify inclusion? He has looked solid but not exceptional.

BOD has been one of Irelands better players in each game he has played and has improved throughout the tournament. Would be a harsh call not to include him particularly given that the only other 2nd centre that has played well (Fofana injured) is Burrell who BOD outplayed when Ireland met England. Campangaro had one great game but hasnt done much since.

GunsGerms wrote:

Exiledinborders wrote:

rodders wrote:15. Brown
14. Trimble
13. O'Driscoll
12. Fofana
11. Huget
10. Sexton
9. Care
1. Healy
2. Best
3. Ross
4. Lawes
5. Launchbury
6. O'Mahony
7. Robshaw
8. Heaslip

What has BOD done to justify inclusion? He has looked solid but not exceptional.

BOD has been one of Irelands better players in each game he has played and has improved throughout the tournament. Would be a harsh call not to include him particularly given that the only other 2nd centre that has played well (Fofana injured) is Burrell who BOD outplayed when Ireland met England. Campangaro had one great game but hasnt done much since.

Care to elaborate on that?

HammerofThunor wrote:

nathan wrote:Based on 2 games? Bit early to suggest that, but the competition will be good and it should provide a kick up the behind of Cole.

I just hope now we have a couple of player who (when Cole gets fit) can share the tighthead position instead of Cole playing 78-80mins ever game

Nathan - Wilson's got about 30 caps, albeit mostly as a replacement, and a lot of people felt in the AIs that he was pushing Cole quite hard for the starting TH position, but then he got injured. Cole has been great for a long time but he has looked less effective this season. I can see two possibilities: i) he's struggled to adapt to the different technique that the new engagement requires or ii) he was already suffering from his disc problem (Jason Leonard said that his developed over a period of time until eventually he couldn't lift his own arm) and we were seeing the effects.

Wilson looked out of puff against Ireland, but after the initial scrum played very well against Wales. If (i) is correct I can see him hanging onto the shirt (Lancaster has been slow to drop in form players for those returning from injury), if (ii) is correct then we can enjoy the same luxury that we have in Marler/Vunipola (Question: if Corbs were full fit, who should get picked at LH?)

GunsGerms wrote: is Burrell who BOD outplayed when Ireland met England.

I suspect this is another discussion we will never, ever agree on - and you will cherry pick the points I make and refute them ad nauseum.

Now I would not say either player was especially noteworthy in the match. Neither achieved much in attack, both missed a similar number of tackles but one player made significantly more tackles. The English papers seem to score Burrell the same or one mark higher (shock horror) while Irish papers do the reverse (again shock horror). the marks a uniform 6 or 7. the one exception was an Irish news outles that only scored the Irish team and gave BoD 5, rating him the worst Irish back. I do not believe either player could be deemed to have outplayed  (which implies they were significantly better) the other.

Burrell was good in 3 of 4 matches, ok in the 4th.

BOD was very good in one (though against the weakest team in the tournament at home) and OK in the other 3.[/quote]

MissBlennerhassett wrote:
Care to elaborate on that?

Sure. BOD was Ireland's second top carrier in that match meaning O'Driscoll got the better of Burrell quite a bit with ball in hand. Both as a crash ball option and by going around Burrell.

Burrell by contrast had a fairly quiet day. He has 1 try in all other games but O'Driscoll kept him in his pocket all day and he didnt look like scoring at all.

Here is some highlights of BOD in the tournament so far which features some nice moves v England and beating Burrell:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddOhXr64wUs&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Halfpenny's tackling is pretty good if not the best FB tackler in the game, he's more than a kicker but he does look a little wooden in attack.

LondonTiger wrote:

GunsGerms wrote: is Burrell who BOD outplayed when Ireland met England.

I suspect this is another discussion we will never, ever agree on - and you will cherry pick the points I make and refute them ad nauseum.

Now I would not say either player was especially noteworthy in the match. Neither achieved much in attack, both missed a similar number of tackles but one player made significantly more tackles. The English papers seem to score Burrell the same or one mark higher (shock horror) while Irish papers do the reverse (again shock horror). the marks a uniform 6 or 7. the one exception was an Irish news outles that only scored the Irish team and gave BoD 5, rating him the worst Irish back. I do not believe either player could be deemed to have outplayed  (which implies they were significantly better) the other.

Burrell was good in 3 of 4 matches, ok in the 4th.

BOD was very good in one (though against the weakest team in the tournament at home) and OK in the other 3.

How do you explain BOD making so many yards with Burrell as his opposite number?

Poorfour wrote:Nathan - Wilson's got about 30 caps, albeit mostly as a replacement, and a lot of people felt in the AIs that he was pushing Cole quite hard for the starting TH position, but then he got injured. Cole has been great for a long time but he has looked less effective this season. I can see two possibilities: i) he's struggled to adapt to the different technique that the new engagement requires or ii) he was already suffering from his disc problem (Jason Leonard said that his developed over a period of time until eventually he couldn't lift his own arm) and we were seeing the effects.

As always it will be a mix of the reasons. A 3rd reason is that until perhaps last seasons 6 nations, Cole had shared club duties with Castro. This meant that whiole he was playing near 80 minutes every test fro England, he was being well looked after by the club. Castro started to decline quite rapidly last season and cole played a lot more minutes for Leicester. He was looking knackered at the end of last season. Add in the lack of any off season and a rushed pre-season, his conditioning at the start of this season was not where it should have been. Sadly tigers back up TH was injured, and the replacement for Castro turned out to be incompetent, so cole was playing 80 minutes week in week out. He was an injury waiting to happen and his body was shot to pieces.

GunsGerms wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

GunsGerms wrote: is Burrell who BOD outplayed when Ireland met England.

I suspect this is another discussion we will never, ever agree on - and you will cherry pick the points I make and refute them ad nauseum.

Now I would not say either player was especially noteworthy in the match. Neither achieved much in attack, both missed a similar number of tackles but one player made significantly more tackles. The English papers seem to score Burrell the same or one mark higher (shock horror) while Irish papers do the reverse (again shock horror). the marks a uniform 6 or 7. the one exception was an Irish news outles that only scored the Irish team and gave BoD 5, rating him the worst Irish back. I do not believe either player could be deemed to have outplayed  (which implies they were significantly better) the other.

Burrell was good in 3 of 4 matches, ok in the 4th.

BOD was very good in one (though against the weakest team in the tournament at home) and OK in the other 3.

How do you explain BOD making so many yards with Burrell as his opposite number?

Looking at your video without him doing something spectacular you sometimes forget he actually has performed well this season. Problem with raising the bar so high. A lot of the moves was him running into 36's channel mind.. not Burrell's.

GunsGerms wrote:How do you explain BOD making so many yards with Burrell as his opposite number?

Is 50m in 11 carries all that many? Compared to Burrells 39 in 5 carries? Suggests that Ireland use O'Driscoll more but Burrell was the more damaging when he had the ball.

Personally I would have BOD in my 6Ns team so far (and Burrell) but please stop the hyperbole. He has not been all conquering in his retirement tour.

LondonTiger wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:How do you explain BOD making so many yards with Burrell as his opposite number?

Is 50m in 11 carries all that many? Compared to Burrells 39 in 5 carries? Suggests that Ireland use O'Driscoll more but Burrell was the more damaging when he had the ball.

Personally I would have BOD in my 6Ns team so far (and Burrell) but please stop the hyperbole. He has not been all conquering in his retirement tour.

I never said he was all conquering. What that I said would you describe as hyperbole?

Sometimes rather than compare BOD to his opposition people actually compare BOD to himself five years ago. I dont get this at all. He is 35 yet no one has outplayed him in this tournament so far. Strange considering how many people claim he is past it and should have retired years ago.

For me Rory Best has to be at hooker, best lineout success rate in the tournament, has carried well though not made big yards, he's won his fair share of turnovers and has been the only hooker who looks comfortable hooking the ball in the scrum which has been a big part of Ireland not losing a scrum.

One thing that I think everyone can agree on is Mike Brown is player of the tournament, only an absolute shocker this weekend can deny him that.

marty2086 wrote:For me Rory Best has to be at hooker, best lineout success rate in the tournament, has carried well though not made big yards, he's won his fair share of turnovers and has been the only hooker who looks comfortable hooking the ball in the scrum which has been a big part of Ireland not losing a scrum.

One thing that I think everyone can agree on is Mike Brown is player of the tournament, only an absolute shocker this weekend can deny him that.

Huget is up there too albeit in a team unlikely to win the tournament so therefore unlikely to win the player of the tournament award I reckon.

GunsGerms wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:How do you explain BOD making so many yards with Burrell as his opposite number?

Is 50m in 11 carries all that many? Compared to Burrells 39 in 5 carries? Suggests that Ireland use O'Driscoll more but Burrell was the more damaging when he had the ball.

Personally I would have BOD in my 6Ns team so far (and Burrell) but please stop the hyperbole. He has not been all conquering in his retirement tour.

I never said he was all conquering. What that I said would you describe as hyperbole?

Sometimes rather than compare BOD to his opposition people actually compare BOD to himself five years ago. I dont get this at all. He is 35 yet no one has outplayed him in this tournament so far. Strange considering how many people claim he is past it and should have retired years ago.

BOD missed 3 tackles to Burrell's one, not good for a centre. I think he was over stretched trying to cover Burrell, the same cannot be said for the reverse.

01. Healy
02. Hartley
03. Ross
04. Lawes
05. Launchbury
06. O'Mahoney
07. Warburton
08. Heaslip
09. Care
10. Sexton
11. Huget
12. Fofana
13. O'Driscoll
14. Trimble
15. Brown

Ireland have probably had the best scrum and England the most impressive back. How odd.

You said he "outplayed" Burrell when actually the difference between the two was minor, and a reasonable case could be made for either having been better. One was marginally better in attack, one better in defence.

By your measure surely England must have outplayed Ireland because they scored more points?

LondonTiger wrote:You said he "outplayed" Burrell when actually the difference between the two was minor, and a reasonable case could be made for either having been better. One was marginally better in attack, one better in defence.

By your measure surely England must have outplayed Ireland because they scored more points?

Out played only means played better, minor or not. I stand by that assessment as I think BOD had more of an impact on the game.

Yes England did outplay Ireland if you look at the 80 minutes as a whole. Ireland made key mistakes whereas England didnt really make any critical errors.

That said most of the match stats were actually in Ireland's favour bar the score.

GunsGerms wrote:

marty2086 wrote:For me Rory Best has to be at hooker, best lineout success rate in the tournament, has carried well though not made big yards, he's won his fair share of turnovers and has been the only hooker who looks comfortable hooking the ball in the scrum which has been a big part of Ireland not losing a scrum.

One thing that I think everyone can agree on is Mike Brown is player of the tournament, only an absolute shocker this weekend can deny him that.

Huget is up there too albeit in a team unlikely to win the tournament so therefore unlikely to win the player of the tournament award I reckon.

Masi was player of the tournament a few years ago so being in a winning team isn't always a factor but I think Huget has looked vulnerable in defence at times whereas Brown has almost been flawless

It's not quite to the point but one of the big Irish papers (forget if it was the Times or the Indy) described BOD (unfairly in my view) as the worst centre on view during the England-Ireland game. It goes to show that there was sufficient disgreement on which of Burrell or O'Driscoll had the greater effect on a day when the outside backs, full-backs excepted, didn't shine, to want to keep the word "outplayed" well away from analysis of the relevant head-to-heads, however you decide to define it.

Not sure on the stats but with Scott Lawson we've had a good lineout - and scrum.

For centre I think Dunbar/Scott should be in contention. Possibly Hogg but Brown has been class.

Brown has been my favourite player of the tournament. And an English player has to be extra good for an Irishman to say that.

I remember O'Driscoll came out with a very clever kick when trying to get passed him. Brown dived like a goalkeeper to catch it from point blank range. That really could have been a try if he didn't stop it and swung momentum and the scoreboard Ireland's way. He then made the English try. A class player on top form.

Sexton has been notably a cut above every other European 10. England dealt with him brilliantly though to be fair. They kept going down his channel over and over. He was shattered by the hour mark and missed that kick to touch that led to an England try. He's tough for a 10 but they battered him. Other teams should take note. Get to Sexton if you want to beat Ireland.

For those having the Burrell vs BOD debate would it be ridiculous to name 12.Burrell 13.O'Driscoll?

At the end of the day not many centres have shone consistently - especially at 12. Fofana had some really classy moments but then suffered from injury sadly. Twelvetrees some really good mixed with really poor. Campagnaro started great then faded. Roberts was strng against France but struggled to impose himself against others.

Burrell and BOD have been the best two centres in the championship I'd say so why not pair them together.

1.Healy
2.Hartley
3.Ross - Not too many standouts. Special mention to Davey Wilson for his break on Sunday carrying that belly!
4.Launchbury
5.Lawes - Special mention to POC
6.O'Mahony - Special mention to Nyanga prior to injury
7.Robshaw
8.Vunipola - Tough decision due to injury and Picamoles dropping for ill discipline. Faletau/Heaslip have both been strong and Parisse good in patches but goes to Billy for his carrying in early rounds.

9.Care
10.Sexton

11.Trimble
12.Burrell
13.O'Driscoll
14.Huget
15.Brown - Kearney, Halfpenny and Dulin all impressed as well

Sorry, Hartley has played well but as long as he gives away stupid penalties - 9 points against Wales - he can't be on the team of the 6N. There's no outstanding hookers in any of the teams but Best for me deserves the place

LondonTiger wrote:

GunsGerms wrote: is Burrell who BOD outplayed when Ireland met England.

I suspect this is another discussion we will never, ever agree on - and you will cherry pick the points I make and refute them ad nauseum.

Now I would not say either player was especially noteworthy in the match. Neither achieved much in attack, both missed a similar number of tackles but one player made significantly more tackles. The English papers seem to score Burrell the same or one mark higher (shock horror) while Irish papers do the reverse (again shock horror). the marks a uniform 6 or 7. the one exception was an Irish news outles that only scored the Irish team and gave BoD 5, rating him the worst Irish back. I do not believe either player could be deemed to have outplayed  (which implies they were significantly better) the other.

Burrell was good in 3 of 4 matches, ok in the 4th.

BOD was very good in one (though against the weakest team in the tournament at home) and OK in the other 3.

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Bod beat more players, made more clean breaks and made more yard - and had a lot more ball. Burrell has been very good tho - cut some lovely lines agaisnt scotland and to get near to BOds quality with his lack of experience marks him as somethig special

I thought BOD was well worth his MotM vs Italy and the reason is the same as what made eg Dean Richards and Martyn Williams so good in their declining years: an apparently psychic ability to be in the right place doing the right thing to have maximum effect at any time. He was brilliant.

It's almost impossible to compare him with Burrell I think, which is why the discussion about who has been better hasn't got anywhere much. Effectively we are trying to compare past with future.