RWC pools taking shape

Ireland: Pool D is already decided
   France
   Ireland
   Italy
   Canada (Q)
   Romania (Q)

Scotland: Pool B
   South Africa
   Samoa
   Scotland
   Asia 1
   USA (Q)

Pool C
   New Zealand
   Argentina
   Tonga
   Georgia (Q)
   Africa 1 (Madegascar/Namibia)

England/Wales Pool A
   Australia
   England
   Wales
   Oceania 1 Cook Is/Fiji
   Playoff Winner via the repechage (fr: lit. re-fishing [ed: Oops! re-draft. via Google translate)

http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/qualifying/index.html

Actually when I look at NZ's pool, it's not as powder puff as I had feared. At least with Tonga (who have improved like Samoa at the set piece and made us look ordinary in the second half in 2011), Argentina and Georgia our forwards will know they've been in a match. It's better than SA's pool for example, as no doubt Scotland will rest their A team for their do or die match against Samoa and so SA will probably only have one team in Samoa giving them an honest game.

Pool D is similarly weak in the bottom tier, but at least like NZ's group, the minnows have some muscle up front to give France and Ireland decent enough workouts. Second place in this group comes up against NZ in all likelihood and I'd be a lot happier if they had SA's second tier teams. Whichever opponent NZ gets, it's going to be a tough game but at least our forwards will be battle hardened.

Pool A is so tough with the seeded teams it's a relief for them they have such weaker teams outside the top 10. Fiji haven't done the graft on their set piece like Samoa and Tonga and still rely on individual brilliance to keep them competitive.

Some huge match ups and whoever is top in Pool A has a good run for the final. NZ and SA are on collision for a semi final if seedings go to plan but for both there are banana skins before that.

Pool A is absolutely mental. Really need to draw seeds closer to the games themselves.

Have to agree, munk.

The automatic qualifiers (apart from the hosts) - Couldn't they be sorted only two years out?

But there you go.
De rules am de rules.

The T4,5,6 etc. teams could still start their campaigns early.

It'd make the IRB rankings more important, too.

i reckon whoever comes out of Pool A alive will be so shattered they will be lucky to make the semis! You cant really rotate your best players out when every game is one you could easily lose. Every game will be close and knackering !

The Fiji game will be the one everyone worries about in pool A... the win will be secure but what will be the butchers bill? You won't want to play any players key to your tournament survival in that match.

fa0019 wrote:The Fiji game will be the one everyone worries about in pool A... the win will be secure but what will be the butchers bill? You won't want to play any players key to your tournament survival in that match.

  

Samoa will have some serious talent if the sxv is anything to go by. Alapati Leiua, Levave and Jack Lam are amongst the best of the NZ sides, Leiua particularly tearing up on demand. A class act.

I think the repechage spot wil most likely be taken by Russia. Sure, it would be nice if Uruguay could beat them, but I don't think that can happen now.

I hope Madagascar make the finals.

Rugby is massive over there, they have 40000 fans filling their stadium every time they play...and play a fijian style of care free rugby. A breath of fresh air.

GeordieFalcon wrote:I hope Madagascar make the finals.

Rugby is massive over there, they have 40000 fans filling their stadium every time they play...and play a fijian style of care free rugby. A breath of fresh air.

Amen, I will most definitely target the NZ game if they qualify

What games are you targeting mintie? I'm thinking a pool game and a quarter final for sure. Madagascar would be a great shout. Argentina could be fun pre-match banter for the missus.

Probably all of NZ’s pool games Kia, kid’s tickets are £15 ea so will be looking to take the boys to all NZ pool games – pity they’ve pretty much bypassed Manchester for this tournament as it would’ve been nice to watch NZ here. Not sure about knockouts, final looks steep £wise but I’m keen to go, might take my oldest to it (regardless of who plays it).

NZ are playing at St james. As are South Africa.

The question is will they be sold out before you can blink.

That's the key GF.

Looking at the pools the usual chess game and sacrificing of the 4Ns will occur.
NZ will go thru unbeaten,as will SA,France may even try this time to avoid
a NZ.quarter final
The crunch Group is Englands on pedigree they plus Australia will proceed
BUT Wales on there day can beat anyone except maybe SA or NZ[on recent form]
England could go all the way or fall at the first hurdle[THAT would be tragedy]

emack2 wrote:Looking at the pools the usual chess game and sacrificing of the 4Ns will occur.
NZ  will go thru unbeaten,as will SA,France may even try this time to avoid
a NZ.quarter final
The crunch Group is Englands on pedigree they plus Australia will proceed
BUT Wales on there day can beat anyone except maybe SA or NZ[on recent form]
England could go all the way or fall at the first hurdle[THAT would be tragedy]

Wales have better pedigree than England and also have the experience, all England have as an advantage is a home draw. Australia another matter, it is psychological only, again Wales are on par with Aussie. Could come down to tries scored in seeing who goes through.

Wales have better pedigree than England really? England have a better record than Wales in the RWC and are much more proficient at beating SH sides. Plus the recent match between the two was won by England. That will England a lot of confidence.

How can Wales be on par with The Aussies when you haven't beaten them in over 5 years?

Wales are a good side but this is a very tough group.

rainbow-warrior wrote:

emack2 wrote:Looking at the pools the usual chess game and sacrificing of the 4Ns will occur.
NZ  will go thru unbeaten,as will SA,France may even try this time to avoid
a NZ.quarter final
The crunch Group is Englands on pedigree they plus Australia will proceed
BUT Wales on there day can beat anyone except maybe SA or NZ[on recent form]
England could go all the way or fall at the first hurdle[THAT would be tragedy]

Wales have better pedigree than England and also have the experience, all England have as an advantage is a home draw.  Australia another matter, it is psychological only, again Wales are on par with Aussie.  Could come down to tries scored in seeing who goes through.

Unfortunately for Wales I think most of what you say is wishful thinking. Better pedigree, well not against Australia, not in world cups and going by the last game, not against England.

It maybe psychological only, but Wales still haven't beaten Australia for yonks!

Wales will be outsiders of pool A and quite deservedly so, if they didn't want it all to do they shouldn't have played like inept perennial chokers throughout the latter half of 2012 and during the run up to the unveiling of the groups. But it's done now with no going back: if Wales are to replicate their feat of 2011 and not regress to group dropouts a few psychological barriers are going to have to be overcome.

Realistically we could finish anywhere between 1st and 4th in the group (don't be fooled, on our day we can still be poor enough to lose to Fiji!)

A is for a##hole all covered in s$%^

So, what venue will Wales play Aus in? Twix. There will be as many aux fans as welsh i can assure you. It is the last big game of the group and i am certain it will be the decider. Fact is that unless Wales implode a la 2007 an let Fiji ream them, it should be a 3 way group and there will always be an upset. But i fWales lose to both Eng and Aus then i will be satisfied they weren't up to the job. I just hope they raise themselves like they did in 2011.

But unless Wales win once in SA and beat Aus in the autumn i just cannot see how we will suddenly come good at RWC. Can anyone really say we will. No more 'performance' chat, results please WG.

Fact is we will be struggling to beat both the hosts and Aus and money will expect us to go out.

I think England will be clear favorites at Twix after this year and to win the group, but a convincing 6 nations win next year will even the odds somewhat. ALso there is only a 6 day turnaround form our opener to going to Twix, not good.

It's a dismal view and i am hoping that England smash Aus for us.

Just looked at the fixture dates

How can this interval crap be justified, clear advantage to England and look at Australia.

Days between group games GROUP A

England 8, 7, 7
Oceania1 5,8,5
Wales 6, 5, 9
Play off 7,9,4
Austrlaia 4, 6, 7

I think it's Wales time over Australia whereas England are likely to be upset after a good run of luck against their arch rivals. Which will make for a classic Wales v England do or die grudge match. It could be a World Cup classic.

World Cup games are rarely classics

Wales have to get past Fiji first   

I wouldnt actually like to say who will qualify from the 3. Any could win on their day.

I just dread to think England not qualifying on the home soil though...after Lancasters constant "we only have eyes for the WC"...and losing to the arch enemies Wales and Australia!

We would never hear the end of it! 606v2 would be shut down!!

Meh, Wales are focussing on the next world cup anyway, hopefully we'll have better seedings   

whats wrong with their pool?

They are in a pool against 2 major sides... one of which they have beaten 3 times out of the last 4 and the other is the weakest of the 3N sides.

Had they faced SA or NZ no one would be saying they will even stand a chance.

Have to fancy themselves vs. England an if they are to beat a 3N side, its going to be AUS.

Its not a terrible pool.

Its widely regarded as the 'pool of death' by many.

It also means 1 of 3 big teams will be out in the first round

Its nothing more then facing Ireland & France in pool A.

Its a bit more than that. One of them is the host country. The seeding came after a poor run of games nearly 4 years ago. The seeding need to be done closer to World Cups, it is known

Ireland are just as good as England, beaten Wales home and away for last 2 seasons and are the 6N champs.
France are again very strong especially upfront.

AUS are beatable to anyone with strength... ENG, SA & NZ all play AUS in the same way, they all beat them.

They could have been pooled with Argentina or Samoa (the other 2nd seeds).... but its not 2 everest climbs, they can win both games. The pressure on England goes both ways... they have to perform as much as the home crowd can lift them.

Ireland have a pretty poor RWC record to be fair and the 6N win was a long time coming. We'll see how they do

Just think that Wales shouldnt be so down in the dumps. They have good players, a good team and a good coach. A little easy to read but that can be changed.

In terms of the poor records in RWC.... does the performance of Gareth Thomas, Neil Jenkins, Robert Jones etc in 95 or Shane Williams, Tom Shanklin & Colin Charvis in 07 have an impact on this current teams personnel & their success/failure in RWC15???

I'm not down in the dumps, I just think the seeding system is daft. Either we are good enough or we aren't.

And no, the past shouldn't matter but unless we get over our SANZAR hoodoo before the RWC we'll be leaving early

fa0019 wrote:Just think that Wales shouldnt be so down in the dumps. They have good players, a good team and a good coach. A little easy to read but that can be changed.

In terms of the poor records in RWC.... does the performance of Gareth Thomas, Neil Jenkins, Robert Jones etc in 95 or Shane Williams, Tom Shanklin & Colin Charvis in 07 have an impact on this current teams personnel & their success/failure in RWC15???

Maybe- but Wales are still relying on an old guard in key positions that will be increasingly struggling in another 12 months, and having the domestic scene in meltdown makes it harder to source replacements and get them up to speed. Most crucially they need to adapt their tactics against the big boys

Wales will be very competitive come the WC mark my words...as will the Aussies.

And if the new Fijian coach can get all the players available from all the clubs around Europe that arent normally available...and add in the likes of Nathan Hughes from Wasps etc....they could play a very real part in who goes through...

GeordieFalcon wrote:Wales will be very competitive come the WC mark my words...as will the Aussies.

And if the new Fijian coach can get all the players available from all the clubs around Europe that arent normally available...and add in the likes of Nathan Hughes from Wasps etc....they could play a very real part in who goes through...

What will their scrum and set piece be like ? I'm envisioning so many reset scrums and no one being carded

Well their scrum might not be all that as per normal....but they have players that can do real damage ball in hand.

If they can get them playing as soome kind of unit, they could give teams a real game.

I agree, I'm just fed up of playing sides with pish poor scrums who don't get penalised for it.

I still get flashbacks of 10 minutes straight of reset scrums against Fiji with no penalty try or sin bins...the horror...the horror

Yeah i think that does need to be watched.

Sometimes the "tier 2 sides" get away with a little bit more than they sometimes should...becuase they're "tier 2" sides.

I think Fiji need to follow Samoas lead and get some of their top front rowers over to Europe on in the S15. Samoa have become a strong side since their set piece has been sorted.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Yeah i think that does need to be watched.

Sometimes the "tier 2 sides" get away with a little bit more than they sometimes should...becuase they're "tier 2" sides.

I think Fiji need to follow Samoas lead and get some of their top front rowers over to Europe on in the S15. Samoa have become a strong side since their set piece has been sorted.

But then they often don't get to play for their national team, sad state of affairs.

And yeah, 'Its Ok, free pass at the scrums if you keep playing sexy rugby and providing NH teams with players'

Thats one of the biggest problems Fiji have...Clubs not allowing them to have all their players. They have to rely on home based players. This is fine in the backs as they seem to have an abundance...Caucaus crown was taken and currently held by Nagala as a class player.

Its the front row that a huge issue. Of the current full squad i think 2 of their front row play abroad...one for Glasgow and the other is listed at Nottingham. That highlights a problem.

Same with Samoa

Well Samoa have the likes of the Johnson brothers at top clubs.

And Mulipola

Indeed

Scratch wrote:Just looked at the fixture dates

How can this interval crap be justified, clear advantage to England and look at Australia.

Days between group games GROUP A

England 8, 7, 7
Oceania1  5,8,5
Wales 6, 5, 9
Play off 7,9,4
Austrlaia 4, 6, 7

The fact is that in 2011 the T2/3 countries never got a fair crack in their recovery intervals and barely got any time of day on this board.

So I'm sobbing my very heart out for the dear ol' Ozzies.

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:

Scratch wrote:Just looked at the fixture dates

How can this interval crap be justified, clear advantage to England and look at Australia.

Days between group games GROUP A

England 8, 7, 7
Oceania1  5,8,5
Wales 6, 5, 9
Play off 7,9,4
Austrlaia 4, 6, 7

The fact is that in 2011 the T2/3 countries never got a fair crack in their recovery intervals and barely got any time of day on this board.

So I'm sobbing my very heart out for the dear ol' Ozzies.

Quite. Samoa barely had time to wash their kit before playing Wales in 2011.

All I'll say is alot can happen in a year. Its too early to tell what can happen.


At the moment I think Ireland and Australia are on the up and so will be Scotland under Cotter.
France can't get any worse but they're not improving.
England are building nicely and will be very difficult to beat. I'd put them at South Africas level.
NZ are NZ. They'll be the team to beat but are beatable especially in world cups when many unknown factors come into it.
Wales have peaked are and are on a downward spiral but they could sort out one or two areas of weakness.
Samoa should be strong again.
The other islanders - Fiji and Tonga - won't cause too many problems I think.
Italy are shouldn't cause Ireland and France too many problems.

I'd be extremely surprised if the semis aren't contested by 4 the following:

NZ
SA
Aus
England
France