Dragons V Edinburgh

First topic message reminder :

Dragons V Edinburgh

At Rodney Parade, 6.30pm. Live on S4C/BBC ALBA
Referee: Leo Colgan (IRFU, 15th competition game)   
Assistant Referees: Simon Rees, Greg Morgan (both WRU)
Citing Commissioner: John Charles (WRU)
TMO: Derek Bevan (WRU)

Dragons

Dan Evans, Tom Prydie, Pat Leach, Jack Dixon, Hallam Amos, Jason Mason, Richie Rees;
Dragons squad

Phil Price, Elliot Dee, Duncan Bell, Andrew Coombs (c), Matthew Screech, Lewis Evans, Nic Cudd, Taulupe Faletau.

Replacements

Sam Parry, Owen Evans, Bruce Douglas, Cory Hill, Jevon Groves, Wayne Evans, Ross Wardle, Will Harries.

Edinburgh

15 Cuthbert
14 Hidalgo-Clyne   
13 Scott
12 Strauss
11 Brown
10 Leonard
9 Hart

1 Dickinson
2 Ford
3 Nel
4 Gilchrist
5 VDV
6 Coman (C)
7 Du Preez
8 Denton

Subs - Hilterbrand, Blaauw, Berghan, Atkins, Grant, Kenedy, Bezzy, Beard

Ah, bugger, well done Embra, wrong choice there by the Dragons

What a b7nch of morons wasted 3 mins with reset scrums

Good result for us after I thought we had blown it.

The ref had a shocker though

Good result for Edinburgh. First time this season I felt the ref calls went our way, but I did feel we were the better side regardless.

Cuthbert is genuinely useful at 15, no question. Scott is class.

Good win for Edinburgh. One or two top performaces. I thought Denton put himself about and did a lot of damage including some turnovers. Hidalgo-Clyne will be happy with his days work. Scott of course looked good. But why is Rees not playing for wales?

CraigS1874 wrote:Good result for us after I thought we had blown it.

The ref had a shocker though

Thought he wasn't too bad myself.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Good result for Edinburgh. First time this season I felt the ref calls went our way.

Mmmmm - I thought the ref favoured Dragons if anyone. couple of dodgy scrum pens maybe and a soft yellow card.

TJ wrote:Good win for Edinburgh.  One or two top performaces.  I thought Denton put himself about and did a lot of damage including some turnovers.  Hidalgo-Clyne will be happy with his days work.  Scott of course looked good.  But why is Rees not playing for wales?

I think he upset the management or Hartley's 'contact with face' farse tarred him badly

I think he tried a bit too hard in places but he should at least be considered for another cap, especially with other 9s form and health

That was an absolute shocking 2nd half performance and why the feck didn't we go for a line out rather than scrums towards the end.

Gutted.

Should have been a penalty try

I disagree on the penalty try. Thought Edinburgh did well at the last scrum and the Dragons were wasteful in not better using those opportunities. I don't think the Dragons were ever sufficiently strong at the scrum to expect a penalty try.

Still, what was it about 3 penalties but i think if we went for the corner we would have scored

Us Dragons are never sufficiently strong at the scrum but our line out was miles better tonight which again is why I am surprised we didn't go for lineout near end

Agree. A lineout and rolling maul and you'd probably have won.

I think Hallam Amos, the Dragons number eleven, possibly held up Williem Nel's try scoring attempt (about 15 seconds into the first video [linked below]). However, the referee, Leo Colgan, awarded Edinburgh their first try.

I think there were two things wrong with Edinburgh's second try (about 48 seconds into the first video [linked below]). I think Grayson Hart, the Edinburgh number nine, certainly knocked the ball on (replay about 73 minutes and 50 seconds into the second video [linked below]). I also think the referee, Leo Colgan, certainly blocked Matthew Screech, the Dragons number five, from tackling Matt Scott, the Edinburgh number thirteen (about 45 seconds into the first video [linked below]).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ocVyBKS0w4&list=TLKMkUOtqjTql-0yj2DZBd5izBa0uU2b07
http://www.s4c.co.uk/clic/c_level2.shtml?series_id=514966383

I don't think there was a problem with first try and replays showed it to be good IMO, the second one then yeah I agree it looked like the ref tripped Bell I think it was not Screech.

Given that a (welsh) tmo gave it it obviously wasn't clear cut, and there were 3 players that should have smashed him and poor tackling let him through.

A pro team defence should never, ever let a simple 1-2 switch get through!

Nothing wrong with either try. . clear touch down, ref right on spot. No obstruction. Ref did not create the gap for Scott. 2 at least other players had the chance to make the tackle

Agree, thought the second try was fine. No knock on and no obstruction. Blame the pathetic tackling, not the ref. At least 3 Dragons just didn't fancy it.

The Edinburgh defensive line was offside a fair bit and got away with it. That's where the ref did us a real favour. Coombs was terrible dealing with the ref. Moaned about everything and lost the ref's ear.

Looking at the 2nd try Faletau should hang his head in shame - he was right next to Scott and just let him waltz through!

And if we're being picky, the lineout for the Dragons try was very, very squint!  

bedfordwelsh wrote:the second one then yeah I agree it looked like the ref tripped Bell I think it was not Screech.

Looking at it again, I think the ref blocked Matthew Screech and tripped Duncan Bell.

Even if it was still no excuse for loss. Attack has beem nothing since Darren left.

TJ wrote:

CraigS1874 wrote:Good result for us after I thought we had blown it.

The ref had a shocker though

Thought he wasn't too bad myself.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Good result for Edinburgh. First time this season I felt the ref calls went our way.

Mmmmm - I thought the ref favoured Dragons if anyone.  couple of dodgy scrum pens maybe and a soft yellow card.

Seeing as some Scots like calling illegal scrummaging on melon head, then clearly the loosehead boring in was fine and at the third scrum when we got called round 90, then I don't know how a front row can pop up like that. I would honestly say that would've been penalty try time against us if the roles were reversed, as perception is massive. Also things like not rolling away is a big thing and from a point of view of both sides, a lot of not straight throws and crooked as flip feeds. One of Edinburgh's went straight to the loosehead.

Besides that though, it's disappointing to have lost that at home. Teams round us in the league, we should be beating at home and the last two games, we haven't. I am clearly biased, but I am not convinced by the first try at least, nor particularly by the second and I know that if the roles were reversed, the Edinburgh fans would think similar.

I think that as a general policy, if the referee can see the ball grounded by an attacking player with his own eyes, as was the case with Edinburgh's first try, he should award it.

It just saves time...

Haha. It would save time, but it does deserve a TMO look really. It's not that clear cut.

It was tough on the Dragons, that one, but I think that Edinburgh were fair value for the win.

I cannot recall a game where the referee looked like more of a hunted man than Leo Colgan. Everyone seemed to spend the entire game talking back to him (Rees showed how you're supposed to do that, Coombs showed how you shouldn't) and Derek Bevan in the TMO booth seemed to regard him the way that an elderly uncle does a 6 year old nephew with jam on his face. Did everyone else pick up Bevan in Colgan's mike on the first TMO referral, which was done in quite an unclear way - "Leo bach, what can I look at for you?".   

For what it's worth, I thought that the Edinburgh backline was offside quite a lot, especially in the second half and that if Rees played for Wales instead of that donkey Philips, the entire Welsh backline would benefit.

I'll say it again - if we're being picky about Edinburgh's tries then let's not ignore the very, very squint lineout before the Dragons try eh? If our 2nd try had been ruled out it would have been our attacking scrum in the Dragon a 22. If the squint lineout had been called it would have been our free kick, relieving pressure. So in both instances we would have come out on top!

Edinburgh have been on the receiving end of some dodgy reffing all season so I'm glad we've got the rub of the green this time.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, regardless of which team it is, ref-whinging does their fans no credit whatsoever

I have to say that the Dragons crowd last night were brilliant. I only saw two other Edinburgh fans so that was 2 more than I thought would be there. Not a bad game considering the weather.

Scott was superb and Cuthbert (to be fair) is our very own Scottish Kearney under the high ball - didn't kick to bad either.

The Dragons basically blew it at the end and should have gone for the lineout. Everyone in that ground just knew that Edinburgh would win the 3rd scrum. They also kicked far too often so just poor decision making all round really.

The only criticism of Edinburgh was the lack of chase when they kicked. No pressure on the Dragons' receivers at all.

All in all a good job done and they're back in with a sniff of European rugby next year. They just need to be more consistent.

I hope the nay sayers will agree as well that S H-C had a pretty good game on the wing, especially with his defensive chores

Cuthbert would have my vote for players of the season at edinburgh!

BigGee - I only saw glimpses of the game but glad to hear that S-H-C played well. He still shouldn't be played on the wing, but good to hear he did the job.

I saw Cuthbert's brilliant take when he had 2 Dragons players bashing into him - he's superb under the high ball.

Another player that impressed me from what I saw was Hilterbrand. He's been OK in all the games I've seen previously, but he put in a massive shift yesterday and looks a great prospect. SQ too.

As for player of the year it will be a close run thing between Du Preez and Cuthbert. Du Preez has been a little quiet by his high standards recently, but he is still an absolute beast.

I should also add that I didn't much like the team selection before the game, but Scott worked out well at 13, H-C was tidy on the wing and Du Preez went ok in the 7 jersey.

What's so much better this season is our defence and work in the contact area. We were very good at slowing down Dragons ball yesterday, working the fine line between not rolling away too quickly but managing not to get penalised. Last season we gifted quick ball to the opposition, this season we've made the tackle area much more awkward for the opposition, getting their players into difficult positions to release the ball quickly. Even when the Dragons had continuity they got nowhere, largely down to a quick line speed (sometime a bit too quick) and better contact skills.

By next season I think we'll be a very difficult side to beat.

Du Preez has played a never ending season this year, coming straight in from the end of the south african season, it is maybe not surprising if he is starting to flag a little. He still put in a good shift though.

I think H-C is the more promising of the two young SH's at Edinburgh and is the one I see going on to play for Scotland in that position. The gametime on the wing won't do him any harm though and he showed that he can do it.

Some people are a bit obsessed about players only playing in one position. Good players have move around since time and memorial and a good player can do that. i accept the recent Scottish coaches have taken this to extremes at times, often with poor results, but it happens in every other rugby team as well, at all levels!

S H-C was the best available player for this game and playing him made the best sense for his future and the development of the team as a whole. Sometimes you have got to trust that the coach knows what he is doing!

BigGee wrote:Du Preez has played a never ending season this year, coming straight in from the end of the south african season, it is maybe not surprising if he is starting to flag a little. He still put in a good shift though.

I think H-C is the more promising of the two young SH's at Edinburgh and is the one I see going on to play for Scotland in that position. The gametime on the wing won't do him any harm though and he showed that he can do it.

Some people are a bit obsessed about players only playing in one position. Good players have move around since time and memorial and a good player can do that. i accept the recent Scottish coaches have taken this to extremes at times, often with poor results, but it happens in every other rugby team as well, at all levels!

S H-C was the best available player for this game and playing him made the best sense for his future and the development of the team as a whole. Sometimes you have got to trust that the coach knows what he is doing!

You mean that an experienced coaching professional knows more about rugby than us armchair fans?

Some people really just don't know what they're talking about!   

For what its worth I still think both Lyn and Kingsley are the guys to take us forward but we need something else as well.

We have recruited well for next season but some of the players they have at the disposal are just not upto it, there was missed tackles or no effort put into tackles that just shouldn't happen at this level.

I and other Dragons fans have said for sometime that we won't win nothing while our set piece is so poor, well as little consolation our scrum was better (sad we have to rely on a 95 yr old prop to steady things) and our lineout was 100% last night yet we still failed to win.

Why didn't we go for a lineout and drive in the last 5 minutes is clearly beyond me and was a poor decision by Coombs.

Agreed. We also need an attack coach, get little Shane in !

munkian wrote:Agreed. We also need an attack coach, get little Shane in !

Munkian,

There is a Shane out there I wish we had got, wasn't there a few rumours linking Shane Howarth to us a while back? Now that would be a good move.

BigGee wrote:Cuthbert would have my vote for players of the season at edinburgh!

He really has surprised people with how well he has played at 15 and to me it looks as if he has gained some additional pace recently, perhaps the conditioning work at Edinburgh suits him better than Bath. Tonks seems to see himself as a 10 next season from what he said on BBC Alba last night so Cuthbert possibly has the Edinburgh 15 shirt nailed down now. Oh, and his place kicking last night was excellent.

S4C's MOTM too.

This win gave me a bit more confidence about our prospects in the league table, especially given that we have Blues at home then Zebre away coming up.

However, I then looked at the Scarlets' run in and it looks to be a forgone conclusion that they will take 6th spot:

Zebre H
Blues A
Dragons H
Blues H

You couldn't ask for a better run in!

Given ours is

Blues H
Zebre A
Glasgow A
Munster H
Leinster A

It is much harder.

Still, 7th would be a great achievement given the start we had due to the new coaches and players having just got off the plane.  The recent losses away to Connacht and Treviso messed up our chances badly, but am quietly confident about our prospects next year for a top 6 finish.

What has happened at Dragons.

Before Christman they really seemed to have turned a corner.
Since then I think they are candidates for the worst team in the league

2014 record - a 1pt win, a draw and 4 defeats

Surely the worst team in the league is the team at the bottom of the league ?

Over a season yes but I said since Christmas

Since then Zebre have won 2 and drawn 1 and have played better rugby than Dragons

Meh, we used to beat you fairly regularly, it'll happen again #GapYear