CL Last 16

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CL Last 16

Post by GSC on Wed 02 Apr 2014, 2:24 pm

First topic message reminder :

Part Moyes, part the squad SAF left him. Naive in the extreme to think yesterday would've ended up any different with SAF at the helm
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Re: CL Last 16

Post by GSC on Fri 02 May 2014, 11:50 am

I don't buy that 30 goals in 2 seasons is supposedly bad for Chelsea. For one thing playing with more gifted players would allow him more opportunities. And again, Drogba was hardly a prolific striker and is remembered as one of Chelseas greatest players.

McEachran won't be good enough. Chalobah possibly, but his attitude stunk after getting 30k a week.
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Re: CL Last 16

Post by CFCNick on Fri 02 May 2014, 11:54 am

GSC wrote:I don't buy that 30 goals in 2 seasons is supposedly bad for Chelsea. For one thing playing with more gifted players would allow him more opportunities. And again, Drogba was hardly a prolific striker and is remembered as one of Chelseas greatest players.

McEachran won't be good enough. Chalobah possibly, but his attitude stunk after getting 30k a week.

My point is it's hardly the rate people would expect by a top striker. Anybody we might seen will have the media and pundits saying he should bang in 20-25 goals in a season. Look at Liverpool and City. Their top strikers are way above 30 in two seasons. I still think we should have kept De Bruyne and not signed Salah, as good as Salah has looked. I really really liked the pre season link up between Hazard, Lukaku and De Bruyne.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by GSC on Fri 02 May 2014, 12:02 pm

If Lukaku played for Liverpool he'd probably be way above 30. Likewise Sturridge probably wouldn't be near that if he led the line for Chelsea.

I just don't get why Lukaku would be the one you'd let go. At worst hes hardly going to be worse than Torres. Ba isn't good enough for Chelseas level. Eto'os a decent player but not close to where he was a few years ago.

De Bruyne had his chance and didnt do anything.
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Re: CL Last 16

Post by mystiroakey on Fri 02 May 2014, 12:06 pm

I think you are underestimating sturridge there mate.

Sturridge hasn't just scored tap ins- some of his goals have been world class strikes and he really has helped liverpool in all areas attacking wise. he has been a major cog in there success rather than just reaping the benefit of others around him


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Re: CL Last 16

Post by GSC on Fri 02 May 2014, 12:09 pm

Eh, I think hes a good player, but in a less attack orientated team and without the great creative talent Liverpool possess I don't think he'd be near the top of the scoring charts
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Re: CL Last 16

Post by mystiroakey on Fri 02 May 2014, 12:18 pm

Sturridge has definitely been part of that creative talent. Not sure what you are trying to say  tbh,

He has done a brilliant job this season. Kudos to him.

You are right that he wouldnt have scored that many goals at chelsea though- Its just your post sounded like you are trying to say that lukaka is the better player and would have scored more than Sturridge- That I do not agree with

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by NickisBHAFC on Fri 02 May 2014, 12:20 pm

I do know what GSC is saying, but i think we should all get right behind Sturridge and not be negative or look for negative things about him, he is English after all. IMO he has been A LOT better than Rooney this season.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by GSC on Fri 02 May 2014, 12:21 pm

Eh, not sure theres a massive difference between them. I think Sturridge needs Suarez, Gerrard, Sterling etc a lot more than they need him.
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Re: CL Last 16

Post by mystiroakey on Fri 02 May 2014, 12:22 pm

so do you think lukaka would have out shone sturridge at liverpool? this season and scored over 10 more goals than him and been on par with suraez!?

forget the english stuff. Lets talk PL.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by mystiroakey on Fri 02 May 2014, 12:23 pm

GSC wrote:Eh, not sure theres a massive difference between them. I think Sturridge needs Suarez, Gerrard, Sterling etc a lot more than they need him.

well you said he would have scored over 30 goals!!

sturridge has 'only' scored 20!

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by GSC on Fri 02 May 2014, 12:25 pm

10 more goals, no. Thats just being silly.

Would Lukaku be a 20 goal a season striker playing with Liverpools attacking resources. Wouldn't say its unlikely.

I'm not saying Sturridge is bad, merely good. Think hes elevated by the players around him more than the reverse
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Re: CL Last 16

Post by mystiroakey on Fri 02 May 2014, 12:29 pm

"If Lukaku played for Liverpool he'd probably be way above 30"

GSC my comment is based on that- what you said! in black and white  kiss 

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by GSC on Fri 02 May 2014, 12:31 pm

Over the last 2 seasons as Nick says Wink
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Re: CL Last 16

Post by mystiroakey on Fri 02 May 2014, 12:32 pm

Ok I missunderstood . Got ya!

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by GSC on Fri 02 May 2014, 12:32 pm

Yeah I could've been clearer
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Re: CL Last 16

Post by NickisBHAFC on Fri 02 May 2014, 12:32 pm

I think Sturridge is better than Lukaku tbh

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Crimey on Fri 02 May 2014, 12:51 pm

I would rather have Sturridge than Lukaku, and I am still not entirely convinced by Sturridge, think Sturridge has a better all round game than Lukaku, I think it's his football brain that needs improving rather than his attributes.

Lukaku is still better than all of Chelsea's strikers and 30 goals over two seasons, even for Chelsea, wouldn't be a bad return, particularly when there is goal scoring talent in the midfield with the likes of Hazard, Oscar, Schurrle, Willian, hardly relying on the forward to get the goals. 

I do think Lukaku would be more suited to Chelsea than Sturridge would though, just like I think Sturridge is better suited to Liverpool, Lukaku would have been great at getting Chelsea's midfield involved, his game doesn't have to be all about goals.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by mystiroakey on Fri 02 May 2014, 12:53 pm

well he is at the moment- Sturridge has had the lukaka years already and developed into a a proven PL player(all be it for only one season)

But then if we look at his age and his potential. He is only 20 isnt he.. That is decent. Chelsea should just loan him out again to everton IMO.


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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Fri 02 May 2014, 6:03 pm

You don't seem to be getting my point Nick. Moses is a prime example. Chelsea didnt need him. Chelsea just took him in case he was good, because they didnt want any of their rivals to get a good player. I hate watching Chelsea as a business unit, they are the very mould of their dirty Russian owner.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by mystiroakey on Fri 02 May 2014, 10:22 pm

true dolph another palace lad wasted!!


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Re: CL Last 16

Post by NickisBHAFC on Fri 02 May 2014, 10:34 pm

John Bostock remember him. Palace debut when 15. Now playing for Bury isn't he?

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Guest on Fri 02 May 2014, 10:38 pm

NickisBHAFC wrote:John Bostock remember him. Palace debut when 15. Now playing for Bury isn't he?

Antwerp.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by mystiroakey on Fri 02 May 2014, 10:42 pm

so we do have an english player playing abroad!

good on him- they aren't a good team though are they. but anyway- probably playing every game and only still in his young 20's.




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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Guest on Fri 02 May 2014, 10:48 pm

There are plenty of English players playing abroad. Scandinavia (last time I looked) housed plenty of british players, and coaches.

Albeit League One level players at best!


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Re: CL Last 16

Post by socal1976 on Sat 03 May 2014, 5:22 am

The bottom line is Jose made a big mistake. You can't tell me that Lukaku is worse than Ba, a god knows how old Eto, and Fernando Torres. Lukaku playing with that midfield as others have said would have provided and excellent pivot and target man that could hold up the ball and bring others into the attack. Goals are the most important factor in assessing a striker but not the only factor. Plus the guy is still young, at a proper club that fostered and nurtured its own young talent he probably would be a much better player than he already is. The funny thing is that coming into this season Chelsea had great young stars like Oscar, Hazard, Mata that with proper development could have become a dominant force in Europe. Jose has basically managed to unsettle and to a certain extent alienate all three of them at various points this season. Chelsea is simply not a club for good young talented stars to mature or develop in. Since Roman took over they are a mercenary club.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by CFCNick on Sat 03 May 2014, 9:31 am

Socal you, and so many others, have clearly never watched a Chelsea game with Lukaku on the pitch. Ba on current form is better than Lukaku has ever played in a Chelsea shirt.

Could argue the same for Ba having a good season if he was the main man. He scores in most appearances.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by socal1976 on Sat 03 May 2014, 11:22 am

Not many of us have Nick that is the whole point. Can you say honestly that he has received a long enough run in and been given a proper chance to make it at the club? I have seen the guy play for other clubs and he looks damn good to me and I see a lot of potential for growth and physical tools that most other players would kill for.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 03 May 2014, 11:28 am

He's played 15 games for Chelsea (of which I'd doubt he started many)

How you can judge that a player won't be good enough for your club off that I dunno
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Re: CL Last 16

Post by kiakahaaotearoa on Sat 03 May 2014, 11:33 am

Cheapest hotel in Lisbon is 1200 euros for the CL final weekend. Think I'll take the train and spend my money on drinks in bars / clubs afterwards instead!

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by mystiroakey on Sat 03 May 2014, 11:39 am

good point- or just stay in the algave!!

make a weekend of it- get some golf in!

you could probably get a room and round of golf deal for next to nothing

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by CFCNick on Sat 03 May 2014, 11:57 am

Olly wrote:He's played 15 games for Chelsea (of which I'd doubt he started many)

How you can judge that a player won't be good enough for your club off that I dunno

He got more time then Ba gets. Is that good enough for you?

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 03 May 2014, 12:06 pm

CFCNick wrote:
Olly wrote:He's played 15 games for Chelsea (of which I'd doubt he started many)

How you can judge that a player won't be good enough for your club off that I dunno

He got more time then Ba gets. Is that good enough for you?

Except this season alone Ba has made 28 appearances...
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Re: CL Last 16

Post by mystiroakey on Sat 03 May 2014, 12:12 pm

socal1976 wrote:The bottom line is Jose made a big mistake. You can't tell me that Lukaku is worse than Ba, a god knows how old Eto, and Fernando Torres. Lukaku playing with that midfield as others have said would have provided and excellent pivot and target man that could hold up the ball and bring others into the attack. Goals are the most important factor in assessing a striker but not the only factor. Plus the guy is still young, at a proper club that fostered and nurtured its own young talent he probably would be a much better player than he already is. The funny thing is that coming into this season Chelsea had great young stars like Oscar, Hazard, Mata that with proper development could have become a dominant force in Europe. Jose has basically managed to unsettle and to a certain extent alienate all three of them at various points this season. Chelsea is simply not a club for good young talented stars to mature or develop in. Since Roman took over they are a mercenary club.

socal the player he alienated the most and made bad comments about start of the season was luiz - luiz has come back and now one of jose's most important players- not all will go down with criticism.

Jose just says what he says for whatever reason, but backs it up on the pitch- its better than moyes "the lads played well, we played well, we were unlucky" game after game after game

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by socal1976 on Sat 03 May 2014, 12:47 pm

mystiroakey wrote:
socal1976 wrote:The bottom line is Jose made a big mistake. You can't tell me that Lukaku is worse than Ba, a god knows how old Eto, and Fernando Torres. Lukaku playing with that midfield as others have said would have provided and excellent pivot and target man that could hold up the ball and bring others into the attack. Goals are the most important factor in assessing a striker but not the only factor. Plus the guy is still young, at a proper club that fostered and nurtured its own young talent he probably would be a much better player than he already is. The funny thing is that coming into this season Chelsea had great young stars like Oscar, Hazard, Mata that with proper development could have become a dominant force in Europe. Jose has basically managed to unsettle and to a certain extent alienate all three of them at various points this season. Chelsea is simply not a club for good young talented stars to mature or develop in. Since Roman took over they are a mercenary club.

socal the player he alienated the most and made bad comments about start of the season was luiz - luiz has come back and now one of jose's most important players- not all will go down with criticism.

Jose just says what he says for whatever reason, but backs it up on the pitch- its better than moyes "the lads played well, we played well, we were unlucky" game after game after game

Don't get me wrong mysti, a manager is not there to make players happy and make excuses for them. But to me his attack on Hazard was pretty silly and pretty self serving. He basically, threw the guy who has been his best player all year and won them a boatload of games to the wolves. Its your team Jose not Hazard's. Ultimately, you are responsible. To me a manager is best when he does his yelling or lecturing in private and not in front of the microphones. I frankly think Jose has had a very bad year as a manager. Managers just like players can have off years and this is certainly one of them. The league was in their grasp a month ago, and Jose was out managed in the tie against Atleti. Sometimes I think Jose enjoys being a media darling more than being a manager with the way he has carried on, often to the detriment of his own team.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by mystiroakey on Sat 03 May 2014, 1:03 pm

bad for jose is still a good season for most.

he has allways been looking at this season as a practice session- next year it will be all guns blazing.

semi in the cl is a decent return- the game against us(palace has cost him the title).

they will be one game off.




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Re: CL Last 16

Post by kingraf on Sat 03 May 2014, 1:09 pm

It does seem odd, the benchmark for good seasons. You'd swear Munich and Chelsea are fighting relegation the way some go on. Fact is, Mancini would still be working at City if had them in Chelsea's position. It really doesn't matter who you are, a CL semi final and top 3 league finish is a good season.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by kingraf on Sat 03 May 2014, 1:10 pm

It does seem odd, the benchmark for good seasons. You'd swear Munich and Chelsea are fighting relegation the way some go on. Fact is, Mancini would still be working at City if had them in Chelsea's position. It really doesn't matter who you are, a CL semi final and top 3 league finish is a good season.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by socal1976 on Sat 03 May 2014, 1:12 pm

But really mysti, it has been a good year for Chelsea? How is that? They have the second highest payroll and transfer budget in the league year in and year out and they will finish third with no trophies letting the title slide late in the season. David Luiz said it himself that this has been a sh+t year if they don't win the league. Of all the big sides, if Arsenal win the cup, Chelsea will have the second worst season next to United.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Guest on Sat 03 May 2014, 1:13 pm

Dunno Rafa. It's difficult to gauge how good or bad-job Mourinho has done really. Unless you had them to win the PL then they are probably about par.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by mystiroakey on Sat 03 May 2014, 1:19 pm

That could only come from.an.Arsenal fan.socal  Very Happy

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by The Special Juan on Sat 03 May 2014, 1:20 pm

Excuse me, Utd won the Community Shield...
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Re: CL Last 16

Post by kingraf on Sat 03 May 2014, 1:20 pm

I think It's been a good season. They threw away the league, but Top 4 + CL semi final is alright. Beat Norwich and they are on top of the log. Can't be a bad season, when you still have a shot (eh) at winning the league with two games to go? Maybe I'm too lenient, but win the last two, and Mourinho gained 9 points on last season. And got out of the group Stages In the champions league. Nine points is a lot to make up.
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Re: CL Last 16

Post by socal1976 on Sat 03 May 2014, 1:36 pm

kingraf wrote:I think It's been a good season. They threw away the league, but Top 4 + CL semi final is alright. Beat Norwich and they are on top of the log. Can't be a bad season, when you still have a shot (eh) at winning the league with two games to go? Maybe I'm too lenient, but win the last two, and Mourinho gained 9 points on last season. And got out of the group Stages In the champions league. Nine points is a lot to make up.


I am pretty lenient as well but different clubs have different levels of expectations. Chelsea is a financial superpower and has won a lot of trophies in recent years. This is certainly one of the worst seasons they have had since Avram what's his name coached them. They could still win the league but look 3rd most likely, of course a league title would dramatically change the picture. But when you call yourself the Special One and have the players he has then this has been a sh+t year and if you don't take my word for it ask David Luiz.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by socal1976 on Sat 03 May 2014, 1:37 pm

The Special Juan wrote:Excuse me, Utd won the Community Shield...

LOL! even moyes will have one more trophy than the Special(ist) One.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by kingraf on Sat 03 May 2014, 1:52 pm

Chelsea finished second, off by two points, and made the European final under Grant. How the hell is Wenger still employed with these standards?
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Re: CL Last 16

Post by socal1976 on Sat 03 May 2014, 2:42 pm

kingraf wrote:Chelsea finished second, off by two points, and made the European final under Grant. How the hell is Wenger still employed with these standards?

And grant got ax, like I said different clubs with different budgets with different standards. But a huge number of fans want Wenger out if it is not the majority it is a very sizeable minority who make the same point you do. By the way never said he should be fired, the guy is a great manager no doubt but he has had a pretty poor season if they fail to win the league.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by kingraf on Sat 03 May 2014, 2:56 pm

Grant got the ax because he wasn't a big enough superstar, nothing to do with his results. He coulda won the treble, but he wasn't the sort of box office name Roman was looking for.

Every club would love a title, but it's not the be all and end all. If City fail to win the league, it's ridiculous to say they had a better season than Chelsea because they won the Reserves, I mean League Cup.
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Re: CL Last 16

Post by CFCNick on Sat 03 May 2014, 4:12 pm

Arguably our worst season ended with FA Cup and Champions League wins.

You do a great job of talking out of your backside Socal.

We've taken 6 points off Liverpool and City, 4 off Arsenal, United and Spurs, and 3 from Everton. We've made the last four of the Champions League. Are better off in the league than this time 12 months ago.

If that's failure why the hell were you so happy to beat Wigan on penalties?

Hypocrite.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by mystiroakey on Sat 03 May 2014, 4:16 pm

getting to a semi final is actually better than winning the uefa cup, as you are beyond that point and have beaten the potential winners... so you could say its even better than last year...


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Re: CL Last 16

Post by kingraf on Sat 03 May 2014, 4:58 pm

Not could say... it is better than last year. Like SoCal said, different teams, different goals and aims. Arsenal have been barren for 150, 000 years, therefore they need a title. They don't mind coming 4th and winning the FA Cup, but I guarantee Abromovich and co would rather be at the business end of CL and two points off the top, than winning domestic cups.
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