Aviva Premiership - Round 21

First topic message reminder :

Fri 2nd May 14

19:45 Bath Rugby  v   Northampton Saints Recreation Ground BT Sport

Sat 3rd May 14

15:00 Gloucester Rugby  v   London Irish Kingsholm
15:00 London Wasps  v   Newcastle Falcons Adams Park
15:00 Saracens  v   Worcester Warriors Allianz Park
15:15 Sale Sharks  v   Leicester Tigers AJ Bell Stadium BT Sport

Sun 4th May 14

14:00 Exeter Chiefs  v   Harlequins Sandy Park BT Sport



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Pos	Team	Played	Won	Drawn	Lost	For	Against	Tries For	Tries Against	Try bonus	Losing bonus	Points
1	Saracens	20	18	0	2	558	302	58	32	8	0	80
2	Northampton Saints	20	15	1	4	511	318	60	28	6	3	71
3	Bath Rugby	20	14	1	5	460	350	46	36	4	2	64
4	Leicester Tigers	20	13	2	5	469	381	49	34	5	3	64
5	Harlequins	20	13	0	7	388	320	38	30	3	3	58
6	Sale Sharks	20	12	0	8	390	335	41	31	3	5	56
7	London Wasps	20	8	0	12	394	421	40	40	3	9	44
8	Exeter Chiefs	20	8	0	12	374	437	35	46	2	6	40
9	Gloucester Rugby	20	7	0	13	375	481	37	53	2	7	37
10	London Irish	20	6	0	14	344	438	33	42	1	6	31
11	Newcastle Falcons	20	3	0	17	230	477	17	53	1	7	20
12	Worcester Warriors	20	1	0	19	277	510	25	54	1	7	12

No the ref indicated a pen advantage. He does not have to put his arm out if he needs to check for foul play. By doing so he influenced the next play hugely as it gave Bath a shot to nothing. As you can see for the Perenisse (apologise for spelling) he did not have an arm out but went back to check for foul play after the move had broken down, as is correct. So that is what the ref should do.

The Ref was going on the fact that his assistant had indicated a penalty by putting his flag out

Student-A1 wrote:The ref made a huge error in the decision at the end. Ford took the shot at goal as the ref had indicated a penalty advantage to Bath, to then go back on that is wrong. If he was going to check the video he should of not said advantage and let the game play and once stopped then go back.

The ref wasn't the problem. It was the AR who raised his flag, leading to the penalty advantage. When play stopped, the AR said he wanted the TMO to check for a number but then asked for a review of the incident too. That means he wasn't certain about the offence, and so he shouldn't have raised his flag. Without a raised flag, there was no penalty advantage and so Ford wouldn't have gone for a drop.

nathan wrote:

beshocked wrote:True but he's not known as dirty a player as Lawes but yes he does smash people and on occasion he does some stupid tackles himself.  When he does idiotic stuff like Lawes I criticise him like some stupid tackles vs Bath.

Why? I don't think Lawes has ever tackled someone to injure them. He just tries to put in a big tackle and he sometimes gets his timing wrong, thats more of a technique than being dirty.

I don't know about that, he is a master of the 'just after the ball has gone but soon enough not to be penalised' tackle on a 10. I think he knows exactly what he's doing.

Anyway on the game, a bit of an annoying end there. I can't see us winning any playoff game away if we get that far... Kudos to Catt for stepping in at hooker though. Take note Nigel Davies.

Bathman, I agree with what you said, mostly about Catt. He should take huge credit especially after Mike Ford said he had only given it a go a few times in training, it is a shame he didn't get a chance to prop as he would of really capitalized on whichever tight head Northampton had. From the previous games I have seen with him he has looked stronger than James in the scrum.

The Lawes tackle issue has been a concern for a while. I absolutely couldn't rate the bloke higher but even though I don't think it was a penalty he did completely know what he was doing in taking out Ford. He may of pulled his arms out but left shoulder in enough. Those things might get pinged in an important international game and no need for it.

Agree, both about Lawes and the ref. never seen Lawes as dirty player, clumsy at times but certainly not dirty. Never seen him stamping on players or anything like that (unlike many others in the game). As Nathan says it's a timing issue at worst.

And on the ref, I've generally been impressed with this guy. Seems to handle the games I've seen pretty well.

Student-A1 wrote:What it shows is someone has the balls to play a position they quite clearly hasn't before and are not remotely comfortable doing.

Sorry but that is utter hogwash. Catt should not be applauded for bravado. If he has not played hooker before it is the height of stupidity and he risked a life changing injury. As a LH he is used to being able to break his fall in a collapsed scrum. To move to hooker he is at the mercy of the rest of the scrum. Catt should be thankful Mercey had a made when he came on, otherwise he'd had have been in real danger. Bath will finish in the top 4, but the chances of finishing 2nd were minimal and that was a totally unnecessary risk to take.

Well, having had time to reflect on the match, I thought Saints played a fairly mediocre match, although the defense was pretty good. After not having much ball in the first half, Bath really straightened up and played strong. Losing the Hooker was a big loss for them. Waiting to bring on Stringer didn't help either. Myler had a great game and kept Saints moving. I look at the Saints lineup, and they were clearly missing Dylan Hartley, Christian Day, Lee Dickson, and George North. Not to mention Alex Corbisiero.

Agree with all of that Dr Grey, got to say that your new 9 Kahn F.... seems like the worst signing of the season too, he's just so slow and inacurrate!

Strange, but Fotuali'i (had to practice writing his name!) is slower than I remember seeing him last season at Ospreys.  And he is on a big contract. Dickson fits in perfectly with Saints and how they play the game - it's one of those situations where a player is not really missed quite so much until he is not playing.  Yesterday also showed why Hartley is so valuable.  Really can't see Saints blowing those scrums late on if he was there.

Hartley was missed massively, the youngsters just seemed to lose all focus and make silly mistakes when Catt came on, they'll be kicking themselves no doubt.

Fotuali'i is really slow at the ruck, it's odd as he was so good in his last season at Ospreys. Perhaps he'll come good next season, may just be taking a while to bed in. I'd def take Dickson over him.

Hoping you are right Yappy.

Just read that there was a lot of abuse of the referee at the end of that match. Clearly unacceptable.

But, I am really not sure how the match should have been handled at that point. If the ref played advantage for a penalty, but it was adjudged no penalty, then what should have happened? I suppose I understand Bath's frustration. Is something like this handled in the Laws?

We was robbed!

I don't blame the ref but touch judge, there was nothing wrong with what Lawes did at the end of the day if it had been anyone else the touch judge would have done nothing and bath might have gone on to win, everyone was robbed of a grandstand finish.

A draw will do. Got to try and take Exeter apart now, big ask

C'mon the chiefs 

I like Chiefs, hope they get a double BP

Hey people, Is the london Irish match being televised? Can't find a link for it.

flankertye wrote:Hey people, Is the london Irish match being televised? Can't find a link for it.

No it isn't sadly.

ah well, sharks tigers will have to do!
Would love to see Sale sneak a win!

A Sale win with no points to Tigers would be fantastic.

Williams having a sinker off the tee. Sale generally playing well I think but 3-14 down (could easily be 23). Accuracy letting them down. Flood on as Allen limped off. Hopefully not serious.

HammerofThunor wrote:Williams having a sinker off the tee.

Doing well enough elsewhere to give his team a big lead. Sale don't seem that outclassed but the scoreline says differently.

Being clinical with the ball seems to be the difference. Williams had that conversion for the second try after Flood came on and he nailed it. But overall playing very well. It'll be interesting to see if he goes on tour. From English bias I'd prefer him to miss a proper pre-season but Burns gets it.

Thomas should have a red for taking out his own player if it's all about player safety.

Sale getting absolutely pounded. Some lovely off loads from Crane.

Bloody hell. What is it about Leicester and the second half of the season? They look very, very strong.
As a Saints supporter I want to play them in the semi-finals like I want a case of the runs.

Have to admit, I am happy to see Flood playing well and having fun. If Leicester don't make the finals, does Flood get one last bite of the cherry and get a final England call up?

I would doubt it, why would Lancaster waste his time?
I'm sure Lancaster would have rather get spanked by the All Blacks and win a rugby world cup than include a flyhalf who isn't going to be available.

shame Sale weren't doing this from the start!

great try by sale there, i think Tigers have turned off now. at this rate we could lose the game.

yellow for me.

Lots of tries today (damn you Tigers) hope it continues tomorrow

flankertye wrote:I would doubt it, why would Lancaster waste his time?
I'm sure Lancaster would have rather get spanked by the All Blacks and win a rugby world cup than include a flyhalf who isn't going to be available.

You're probably right. Depending on the composition of the squad for the first test, I bet you are gonna see that spanking. Shame.

Topsy turvy game at Adams Park. A dozy Wasps gifted Falcons a 17 point start with some poor kicks from hand. Then it was all Wasps until the end of half 29-17 at ht.

Wasps were asleep again at the start of the 2nd half. Falcons went 31-29 ahead before Wasps pressure brought two more tries and a 44-31 lead only for Falcons to claim a 5th try at the death.

Definitely a game of four contrasting quarters!

Saints and Bath draw then a TBP win for Tigers. Perfect now if Saints could lose next week (five tries again please Wasps) and Sarries could send their academy up to Welford Rd that'd be marvellous.

Was the ref really bad in the Sale/Tigers game? Diamond said he was outrageous at times? (i didn't see the whole game)

He was alright I thought. Some decisions could be considered outrageous from Sale's POV but it didn't seem unbalanced if you know what I mean.

So next week we have:

Leicester v Saracens - playing for 2nd
Quins v Bath - possibly dead rubber or playoff for 4th
Irish v Sale - dead rubber
Newcastle v Exeter - possibly dead rubber or for 7th
Northampton v Wasps - playing for 2nd and possibly 7th
Worcester v Gloucester - dead rubber

So at least three dead rubber games next week. That's worst I remember it for a while.

HammerofThunor wrote:He was alright I thought. Some decisions could be considered outrageous from Sale's POV but it didn't seem unbalanced if you know what I mean.

So next week we have:

Leicester v Saracens - playing for 2nd
Quins v Bath - possibly dead rubber or playoff for 4th
Irish v Sale - dead rubber
Newcastle v Exeter - possibly dead rubber or for 7th
Northampton v Wasps - playing for 2nd and possibly 7th
Worcester v Gloucester - dead rubber

So at least three dead rubber games next week. That's worst I remember it for a while.

Would be great if Saints lose and we win.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Saints and Bath draw then a TBP win for Tigers. Perfect now if Saints could lose next week (five tries again please Wasps) and Sarries could send their academy up to Welford Rd that'd be marvellous.

We got 6 - would that be ok

38 tries in the AP today!

Quins fans should watch the Glaws Irish game. Yarde's performance was as good as I've seen at Kingsholm and he will be a major asset to you next year. Irish played well but without Yarde Glaws would have won comfortably

Six would be fine Hound.

Didn't think Doyle was that bad. Diamond does go over the top sometimes.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Six would be fine Hound.

Didn't think Doyle was that bad. Diamond does go over the top sometimes.

He's a bit like someone closer to home! lol

Him and Cockers are currently from the same cloth that's for sure. I wonder if he had his tongue slightly in his cheek as he was complaining about the scrum decisions.

With that kind of personality, one never knows. Wouldn't be surprised.............

All the matches are at the same time on Saturday, right? So only one match will be shown on tv, I presume. Which one is supposed to be televised? At the beginning of the season, it seemed a Leicester-Sarries match was the dead certain headliner for the final weekend. But Sarries have nothing to play for. So, it might be a waste of good television air time. Quins-Bath would be my first choice, followed by Saints-Wasps.

Agree good Doctor, Quins-Bath would be my pick. Total winner takes all game. Here's hoping Saints pull off the victory against Wasps, I'm not confident for the play-offs at the moment, especially if we end up with Tigers in the semi but at least the home draw should give us more of a chance.

Saints not firing on all cylinders at the moment. Effort is there but feel that a combination of teams figuring them out a bit plus some players looking fatigued (Alex Waller & Clark to name but two have been off the boil in recent weeks). I rate JM as a coach but do wish he would rotate players a little more before we get to the real business end of the season. I think both Ethan Waller (pre last weeks injury) & Ben Nutley were good enough to see more game AP game time in the last few weeks.

They said after the Exeter v Quins game it would be Quins v Bath game

BT Sport have announced they are showing two games, Quins v Bath and Saints v Wasps.

BTS still has the fixtures here http://sport.bt.com/fixtures-01374780298203

Still says all games start at 3.15

But Oz may still be correct

All games do start at 3.15. They will be showing one on each channel.

From the AP Facebook page...

Premiership Rugby
about an hour ago
This Saturday all the matches in the final round of Aviva Premiership Rugby kick off at 3.15pm.
Two matches will be shown live on BT Sport - Harlequins Rugby Union v Bath Rugby and Official Northampton Saints v London wasps