RP12 Semi Final 2: Leinster v Ulster, 17 May

Leinster Rugby v Ulster Rugby

Saturday 17 May 2014, KO: 19:00
Royal Dublin Society

Live on RTE/BBC NI/S4C

Referee: Leighton Hodges (WRU., 40th competition game)
Assistant Referees: Ian Davies (WRU), Neil Paterson (SRU)
Citing Commissioner: Paul Minto (SRU)
TMO: Gareth Simmonds (WRU)

A. Teams:

I. Leinster


Kearney R, McFadden, O'Driscoll, D'Arcy, Kearney D, Gopperth, Reddan;
Healy, Cronin, Moore, Toner, Roux, Ruddock, Jennings, Heaslip.

Dundon, McGrath, Ross, Cullen, O'Brien, McGrath, Madigan, Kirchner

II. Ulster

C Gilroy, T Bowe, J Payne, D Cave, A Trimble, P Jackson, R Pienaar;

C Black, R Best, R Lutton, J Muller (Captain), I Henderson, R Diack, C Henry, R Wilson.

Replacements: R Herring, A Warwick, A Macklin, D Tuohy, S Doyle, P Marshall, J McKinney, L Marshall.  

B. Previous Championships

I. Leinster

Three (2001-2002; 2007-2008; 2012-2013)

Playoff Record - Played 4, Won 4:
2010 RDS: beat Munster 16-6.
2011 RDS: beat Ulster 18-3.
2012 RDS: beat Warriors 19-15.
2013 RDS: beat Warriors 17-15.

II. Ulster

One (2005-2006)

Playoff Record - Played 2, Won 1, Lost 1:
2011 RDS: lost to Leinster 3-18.
2013 Ravenhill: beat Scarlets 28-17.

C. Form - head to head:

36 Played 36
26 Wins 7
7 Losses 26
3 Draws 3
78 Tries 44
53 Conversions 32
106 Penalties 94
5 Drop Goals 3
829 Points 575
28 Avg. Age 24

D. Form - this season & last:

Fri 21 December 2012, 19:05
Ulster Rugby 27 - 19 Leinster Rugby
Ravenhill

Sat 30 March 2013, 18:15
Leinster Rugby 18 - 22 Ulster Rugby
Royal Dublin Society

Sat 25 May 2013 (Grand Final), 16:45
Ulster Rugby 18 - 24 Leinster Rugby
Royal Dublin Society

Sat 28 December 2013, 18:45
Leinster Rugby 19 - 6 Ulster Rugby
Royal Dublin Society

Fri 2 May 2014, 19:30
Ulster Rugby 20 - 22 Leinster Rugby
Ravenhill

C'Mon Ulster! SUFTUM!!!

The form Leinster are in, I'm very surprised the Glasgow crowd don't want them in the Final. I feel like we have a massive chance in this game.

Leinster won't be in the final, Notch.

If you can get Pienaar and Afoa back, then Ulster will take them down - having watched the Leinster-Edinburgh game, I am fairly confident of that.

Notch wrote:The form Leinster are in, I'm very surprised the Glasgow crowd don't want them in the Final. I feel like we have a massive chance in this game.

But if Ulster win that would give, in the ideal world, Glasgow a home final. Which would be amazing!
On the other hand though Ulster do look the better team at the moment. Tough call.

Ah yes of course, of course... the home final factor! Glasgow-Ulster final would be very, very good just don't have it in a shoite hole like Ibrox please

Not Rugby Park either. Killie is my other local team and I've been there many times. Hence my ability to confirm from first hand experience that it's an absolute toilet with awful food and which in no way befits an occasion like a Rabo final.

What are our options? I guess it depends on what Commonwealth Games prep is going to hinder it. In order:

1. Celtic Park (capacity - 60,000) - it's hosting the Commonwealth Games opening ceremony at the end of July. Does that mean it's off limits? The atmosphere in the bowl is wonderful, the pitch is good, the facilities are good and this would probably be my first choice.

2. Hampden Park (capacity - 52,000) - main athletics stadium for the CGs. I imagine that it's just not an option to use this.

3. Ibrox Stadium (capacity 50,000) - has it been formally confirmed that the pitch is too small for rugby?

4. Others - see above re Rugby Park (capacity is only 18,000 anyway), Fir Park is possible but could only do about 14,000. Fir Hill would be an option, but I like to think that we've moved on.

Did someone whisper Murrayfield.......................?

Murrayfield would be the best option from an SRU perspective as in every other scenario the owners of the stadium will want a big cut.

The train from Glasgow to Edinburgh is really not that much of a bother. We had to have a home Final in the home ground of our opponents last year ffs   

Asbo said on another thread that Rugby Park seems likely- hope Munster win if we win from a logistical point of view, Thomond Park much more accessible from Belfast in that you can drive down. Hiking all the way out to Kilmarnock after flying over doesn't appeal. Plus if the Final is in Thomond we'll get a bigger allocation. 13000 as opposed to 9000 in Killie.

Jaysis it's very quiet on here. Ulster boys trying to keep it quiet that they will have Best Pienaar and possibly Afoa on Saturday?

It looks fairly likely we'll have Pienaar Jen, possibly Afoa and we can but pray that Besty uses his freaky mutant powers of regeneration again. We are also planning on keeping it to XV a-side for once just to see what happens.

Notch wrote:Asbo said on another thread that Rugby Park seems likely- hope Munster win if we win from a logistical point of view, Thomond Park much more accessible from Belfast in that you can drive down. Hiking all the way out to Kilmarnock after flying over doesn't appeal. Plus if the Final is in Thomond we'll get a bigger allocation. 13000 as opposed to 9000 in Killie.

Kilmarnock is about 5 miles from Prestwick Airport. Its not that much further from Glasgow airport also,

Notch wrote:Asbo said on another thread that Rugby Park seems likely- hope Munster win if we win from a logistical point of view, Thomond Park much more accessible from Belfast in that you can drive down. Hiking all the way out to Kilmarnock after flying over doesn't appeal. Plus if the Final is in Thomond we'll get a bigger allocation. 13000 as opposed to 9000 in Killie.

Indeed, my understanding is that the pitch widening activities currently going on at Ibrox to accommodate the Commonwelath Games 7s have rendered both ends of the playing surface more reminiscent of WWI no-mans land than an actual pitch fit for rugby, and that the chances for rectification are slim

Would more Leinster and Ulster fans be posting here if I swapped the pictures in the OP for ones of Cullen and Mullers' wives?

Pete330v2 wrote:It looks fairly likely we'll have Pienaar Jen, possibly Afoa and we can but pray that Besty uses his freaky mutant powers of regeneration again. We are also planning on keeping it to XV a-side for once just to see what happens.

I've lost track of who is fit up there. Diack? Wilson? I hear Williams did a cruciate at the weekend. Tuohy?

We lost Strauss and McCarthy

We haven't a hope.

Heart says Ulster, head says ... Ulster. First time they've agreed about an Ulster v Leinster clash!

Got SOB and McFadden back though. Luke Fitz won't be back. Redan (possibly the most important) is touch and go.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:It looks fairly likely we'll have Pienaar Jen, possibly Afoa and we can but pray that Besty uses his freaky mutant powers of regeneration again. We are also planning on keeping it to XV a-side for once just to see what happens.

I've lost track of who is fit up there. Diack? Wilson? I hear Williams did a cruciate at the weekend. Tuohy?

We lost Strauss and McCarthy

Really? Is that a generously covered lady singing, I hear?

I dunno. What has she been generously covered with?

I was going to just call her a "fat lady" but RDS will accuse me of being size-ist again.

OK. What is the fat bird generously covered with? Jaysis youse Glasgow lads are perverted.   

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:OK. What is the fat bird generously covered with? Jaysis youse Glasgow lads are perverted.   

 

Leinster have had poor enough performances the last couple of weeks and really are not approaching these playoffs with anything resembling good form.

I have to remind myself that Leinster are top of the league table with a rake of TBP and one of the (if not the) highest points difference over the season.

But this first season under MOC has been one of 'just-enough' performance to progress. He is a nervous coach who seems reluctant to make changes at the appropriate times during games. He has tended to opt for the Boss slow control at the breakdown even for home fixtures instead of injecting pace with Reddan or McGrath. He has managed the progression of Madigan so well that the attacking style we loved about him has been moth-balled with him having to become a clone of the kicking game that is Gopperth. Watch Leinster in the warm-up drills and even the simple passing drills are performed too slowly and too often contain dropped passes (in feckin practice) during half speed drills. Then they spend an excessive amount of time doing scramble defensive line formation and random counter-attack defending.

And his set up of the bench at the weekend was shocking. I can't really remember the last time McCarthy or Cullen lasted 80 minutes of play. Indeed Cullen tended to be last 30 minutes style appearances more often than not this season. Toner was the solid 80 minute performer in my mind. So he starts with those two and then puts Ruddock on the bench as lock-backrow cover. Why was that? So SOB would have replacement cover. If that was the case then he needed another week to recuperate. As it was, our reserve scrum half comes in as a lock replacement for the final session of the game. It also seemed strange that he would put Macken on the bench when Madigan is there also and McFadden is on the wing. That meant you had two centres in Macken and Madigan on the bench as options and also McFadden for a tactical switch on the field if needed. It also meant that any replacement required to the back 3 positions would mean a player being completely out of position. I can see what he was thinking, BOD might not last 80 minutes so have Macken as a replacement for 13, but there were plenty other options there for substituting in the centre and he put us light in the back three as a result. That's just basic stuff.

I have no real idea of who is fit for this game and I don't know what our chances are until we do announce the squad.

I would be quietly confident that Leinster are not the consummate force they were under Schmidt, and also happy that they don't have an organiser and general in the class of Sexton, and so sense that there is a chance now. Not that I'm discounting them but they look beatable.

But we're fairly patched up for this one. No idea about Afoa. Might be we have Warwick again, who to be fair to him is doing very well in that role. But we'll definitely have a big disadvantage in the front row, especially in terms of who we can scrape together to be on the bench for us compared to Leinster who can spring an entire international class front row off the bench. But thats probably the only area I fear them, really. Thats the only place I feel they have any meaningful advantage.

If Diack isn't fit I would like to see Henderson move back to 6 as Williams season is almost certainly over. Tuohy was apparently just a precautionary sub at the weekend, should be fine.

I'm pure guessing that Best and Pienaar will be back. I think they've been making sure they are right for this one above all else. Pienaar will be massive, whether he plays or not could be decisive, because we need his kicking game and organisation. If we play the game in the wrong areas Madigan or Gopperth will just keep the scoreboard ticking over and the game will slip away. But a really good tactical kicking game and a chase game and I no longer have the fear that a fluent offloading Leinster will tear into us and fillet us from deep. I also no longer have the fear that they have a general at 10 who can marshall the game as well as our combo of Ruan and Wee Paddy can. The uncertainty at 10 this season has hurt them a great deal and O'Connor seems to have really undermined Madigan, the one player who genuinely can fillet you in the style of old Leinster. If they still had Sexton that alone would make me more pessimistic about this match.

I'm predicting;

1. Black 2. Best 3. Warwick 4. Muller (c) 5. Tuohy 6. Henderson 7. Henry 8. Wilson 9. Pienaar 10. Jackson 11. Bowe 12. Marshall 13. Cave 14. Bowe 15. Payne

And the game to be incredibly tight, won by Ulster by 3 points  

The thing is, I've predicted Ulster will win every game this season with the exception of last weekend. So is that worth a lot? Who knows.

All I know Leinster have ended our season for three years running and to repay the favour would be a thing of beauty! The one message; discipline, discipline, discipline.

Don't worry too much Notch. There's a lot of rebuilding to be done at the Rescued Donkey Santuary and there's a building materials shortage.    Ulster   

Notch wrote:
I'm predicting;

1. Black 2. Best 3. Warwick 4. Muller (c) 5. Tuohy 6. Henderson 7. Henry 8. Wilson 9. Pienaar 10. Jackson 11. Bowe 12. Marshall 13. Cave 14. Bowe 15. Payne

And the game to be incredibly tight, won by Ulster by 3 points  

Jeas that's tough on Trimble, think he has had an excellent season - but if you think Bowe is up to it..........  

"I don't want to say anything stupid and get us all excited ...but I think we're definitely going to win!"

We'll have Pienaar and Best for this one but Afoa won't be seen in Ulster colours again. Well he'll be seen in Ulster colours but only the red and white of Glouster

That tight 5 that Notch posted should be enough to hold their own, the backrow would be more than good enough if those guys are selected. Our backline picks itself and with Jackson and Pienaar back in partnership just look out Leinster, I feel revenge is on the cards. I hate being optimistic though, it's so often proven to be of the deluded type.

Pete330v2 wrote:We'll have Pienaar and Best for this one but Afoa won't be seen in Ulster colours again. Well he'll be seen in Ulster colours but only the red and white of Glouster

That tight 5 that Notch posted should be enough to hold their own, the backrow would be more than good enough if those guys are selected. Our backline picks itself and with Jackson and Pienaar back in partnership just look out Leinster, I feel revenge is on the cards. I hate being optimistic though, it's so often proven to be of the deluded type.

Who's to say that he won't be later signed by Connaught, Pete?   

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:We'll have Pienaar and Best for this one but Afoa won't be seen in Ulster colours again. Well he'll be seen in Ulster colours but only the red and white of Glouster

That tight 5 that Notch posted should be enough to hold their own, the backrow would be more than good enough if those guys are selected. Our backline picks itself and with Jackson and Pienaar back in partnership just look out Leinster, I feel revenge is on the cards. I hate being optimistic though, it's so often proven to be of the deluded type.

Who's to say that he won't be later signed by Connaught, Pete?   

Well nothing's impossible the way Connaght are going they will become the Irish Toulon

The tickets are on general sale by the way in case some of you didn't realise.

Yes, priority booking for Leinster and Ulster season ticket holders yesterday and remaining tickets on general sale today. I can't go though! So disappointing. Curse you, work! Curse you for giving me a steady income in exchange for my time and effort. Some of my effort.

Got the weekend of the final booked off though

So me not traveling breaks the run of the last three seasons were the season has ended with me trudging out of a stadium, unconsolable, muttering darkly about Leinster. Hopefully the team can avoid the same fate!

I'm fecked off at not being able to attend any matches let alone this one (unable to travel very far). Mind you at the prices I just looked at per ticket I would rather sit up at home and spend the money on an exceptional bottle of wine

Right. Who's going to win? Cards on the table lads.

I'm still in two minds:

Silly question really...

Live on TG4 /RTE2 / BBC NI / S4C

Referee: Leighton Hodges (WRU., 40th competition game)
Assistant Referees: Ian Davies (WRU), Neil Paterson (SRU)
Citing Commissioner: Paul Minto (SRU)
TMO: Gareth Simmonds (WRU)

Ulster by 5

Pete330v2 wrote:I'm fecked off at not being able to attend any matches let alone this one (unable to travel very far). Mind you at the prices I just looked at per ticket I would rather sit up at home and spend the money on an exceptional bottle of wine

Do tell, Pete. You know that unsubstantiated factettes annoy me.

[ed] I tried http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/final/tickets.php
[ed 2] Out of curiosity I tried for a Leinster SF ticketmaster offering and all I got was

ticketmaster wrote:Running…
Your wait time is  less than 1 minute.

For five minutes. I've never had any joy looking at Ticketmaster.ie though. Must be a top domain thing.

Jaysis you must be fairly sh1t at using that internet thingumydufer.

http://www.ticketmaster.ie/event/18004CA7F35631BF

Tickets are between 25 and 65..... or 20 and 53 in that weird old fashioned money you lads have.

Kids 10 to 20 (8 to 16 in WOFM)

Not many left though.

I'm hoping it lashes rain and we get a slog fest because I think we could win that with our superior pack (mainly frontrow) and superior bench of forwards.

I hope Goopereth is selected for this game as I feel madigan has been pretty ropey anytime I've seen him lately. Would be great if Strauss and McCarthy were fit for this as it would give us some serious firepower off the bench but you win some you lose some.

I hope Best and Pienaar don't make it for obvious reasons. Glad that you are down to your second string props. Hate to be mean but I want to win eh?

If this becomes a loose affair I really fear for us because lads, we look cr@p this year when it comes to creating things and doing fun stuff

If we go with Warwick at LH I expect Healy to give him a going over. He will be more ready for it this time. That scrum dominance is a significant advantage in a tight game

[quote="Portnoy's Complaint"]

Pete330v2 wrote:I'm fecked off at not being able to attend any matches let alone this one (unable to travel very far). Mind you at the prices I just looked at per ticket I would rather sit up at home and spend the money on an exceptional bottle of wine

Do tell, Pete. You know that unsubstantiated factettes annoy me.

I am tempted to let you guess as to why I can't travel
Actualy, any journey in a car that's more that about 8 miles or so makes me sick as a very sick parrot who's just drank a bottle of ipecac. I had some pretty major brain surgery and now am constantly dizzy and nauseous. I've been granted a medical licence but driving on the open road is something of a lottery as to whether I remain in between the hedges. Hopefully by next season it'll have cleared up a bit and I'll be back to Ravers. So for me it's home with a lovely bottle of Châteauneuf-du-Pape, a ripe stilton and perhaps a pipe of kentucky nugget....bliss.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I'm hoping it lashes rain and we get a slog fest because I think we could win that with our superior pack (mainly frontrow) and superior bench of forwards.

I hope Goopereth is selected for this game as I feel madigan has been pretty ropey anytime I've seen him lately. Would be great if Strauss and McCarthy were fit for this as it would give us some serious firepower off the bench but you win some you lose some.

I hope Best and Pienaar don't make it for obvious reasons. Glad that you are down to your second string props. Hate to be mean but I want to win eh?

If this becomes a loose affair I really fear for us because lads, we look cr@p this year when it comes to creating things and doing fun stuff

Hi Pete.
I'm afraid it gives it to be dry for the rest of the week (on certain forecasts) and Besty and Pienaar will be making a return so it'll make for a much more entertaining running game which will suit both teams really.
As has just been said I have no doubt that Healy will have worked out what he did wrong against Warwick and it'll be fixed. I'm just hoping Warwick is the real find that he seems to be and can counter anything Healy chucks his way.

PenfroPete wrote:Live on TG4 /RTE2 / BBC NI / S4C

Referee: Leighton Hodges (WRU., 40th competition game)
Assistant Referees: Ian Davies (WRU), Neil Paterson (SRU)
Citing Commissioner: Paul Minto (SRU)
TMO: Gareth Simmonds (WRU)

That's a hometown bunch if I ever saw it.

Not sure where the optimism is coming from for Ulster. I see our lineout struggling and Leinster winning a scrappy, stop start game, through superior work at the breakdown, a marginally better set piece and more accurate goal kicking.

I don't think either team is in good form and to be honest they probably both have one eye on their summer holidays after disappointing seasons.

Best, Wilson, Diack, Tuohy all cleared to play. Pienaar to have a final test tomorrow. I would start Henderson ahead of Tuohy.

1) Black 2) Best 3) Warwick 4) Muller (c) 5) Henderson 6) Diack 7) Henry 8) Wilson 9) Pienaar 10) Jackson 11) Bowe 12) Marshall 13) Cave 14) Trimble 15) Payne

Other than the front row we are well equipped to win this... whether or not this is a disappointing season for Ulster hinges on the next two games and of we win this we are well placed to make it the best season in a while.

I bought myself some extra tickets for the game assuming that I'd get some mates to go. Rotten luck (and nothing else I hope) but they are all busy or working.

I'd be looking to sell, but will find it hard before it sells out.

Which brings me to my point. I thought this would be sold out in a flash! Do the fans really care this little about the league?

Well I want to go but I can't due to work. Similar story for a lot of people. I can only book so many weekends off, need to do so in advance and unfortunately this wasn't one. Not knowing we would be away I decided to chance it. No matter how high demand is, it will always be very hard to sell 18000 tickets in a few days. It is strange though. Leinster fans getting turned off by their recent form? Or merely spoilt?

Similar to notch. In the group of about 10 lads I go with every week and all have Season tickets only 2 I think are going down. I had actually moved a planned trip with friends from next weekend because I had wanted the Heineken cup final off. Waste of time now but what's done is done. If we make the final I will book it off