Perm 12 from 20

Big European points on offer this week and the race for Ryder Cup places is hotting up. Currently these are the 9 with a place

Dubuisson
Donaldson
Bjorn
Stenson
Garcia
McIlroy
Rose
Donald
Kaymer

...and this is the chasing pack

Poulter
Westwood
Molinari
Jiminez
Gallacher
Luiten
Castano
McDowell
Fisher
Blixt
Fleetwood

I think we can take it that barring injury, if he doesn't make the 9 automatic places, Poulter will be a pick.
Of the 9 currently in the places I'd say Donald needs a result more than most to stay there. Kaymer has rediscovered some form and I'd expect him to move into a safer position.
McDowell increasingly looking like he may need a pick now and he's not in the field this week either.
I can see Luiten pushing his way in and McGinley having some tough choices come late August.
Do we think it'll be 12 from these 20 or can anyone else push their way in e.g.Casey?
It'll be interesting to see how things look after this week.

Happy with the top nine at the moment - the one reservation for me would be Bjorn, but that's just because I can't take to him for some irrational reason - and if he hangs in there I'm sure he'll do a fine job .. just not one of my favourites

Of the chasers, of course Poults would be first choice .. would also like to see Molinari in there and Joost. A bit of form from GMac and I'd have him also but he's not firing at the moment - great temperament for RC though.

Is Jamieson anywhere near contention?

I do wonder how Bjorn would perform as well (and I'm the same as you Davie, I can't take to the guy and I've no idea why).
Dubuisson is also a worry... a stellar run of form in the early season including very importantly a wgc matchplay win...but what's he doing now?
In 2010 I don't think McDowell was close to contention until he went and won the Welsh Open at the Celtic Manor then crossed the Atlantic the following week and won the U.S. Open.

...and Jamieson?? currently 47th on European list so somewhere in between Bob Hope and no hope, admittedly ahead of Colsaerts & Quiros.

Gmac should make it, either on merit or as a pick. It's not like he hasn't been in form: plenty of top 10s this season and end of last.

Bjorn is important to have on the team, either as vc or player. But his form has been a bit dodgy lately.

Donandson and Dubuisson are question marks for me though.

I'd certainly have Bjorn as a VC .. just not sure I fancy him as a player. Didn't realize Jamieson was that far down - I only mentioned him as his name often seems to pop in the the "there or thereabouts category" without actually winning much.

Agree about Dubuisson though I do like his mental attitude which counts for a lot in RC

If I were McGinley I'd certainly pick Gmac & Poulter if they didn't make it. Not a betting man but I think he may have to choose between Westwood and Donald unless they both get their act together this summer.

Dubussion had a good finish to the finals series last year which would have kick started the qualifying campaign. He then had a very good showing in the match play ultimately losing to Jason Day in the final. He's gone off the boil at the moment but there's nothing to say he won't have another good spell to solidify his spot.

This could be the year that some big name, long term, Ryder Cuppers miss out.

This will be a BIG week for European aspirations, loads of loot and a bucketload of owgr points. And, seeing as we're talking this week in particular, surprised that no-one's mentioned Matteo.
Agree that Poulter and McDowell are "must" picks, but wouldn't it be nice if they were playing well enough to golf their way into the automatic qualifiers?
Regardless, I'd say only Stenson & Sergio are certain qualifiers at this stage; the rest could pretty easily get overwhelmed by the big bucks on offer over the next month.

Would definitely not choose Casey based on his current form (i.e. his form for the past four years).

Matteo?? 2 top 10's in a year.... He better get his act together then.

Based on the current standings my picks would go to IJP and 2 of the 3: MAJ, LW1 and GMac.

Ah! Dubuisson out of the PGA still recovering from his shoulder injury. He could very well find himself surrounded by fellow contenders for his Ryder Cup spot which had seemed assured 3 months ago.
There'll be a lot of changes before he's scheduled to play again, reportedly in Memphis.

pedro,
Wasn't advocating for Matteo! Was just surprised that others with even more slender credentials had been mentioned but not him!!

As a Yank who has said the same thing about US Ryder Cup Wildcards, I think Lifetime Achievements are over-rated.

I know Poulter has "Monty-like" and "Seve-esque" Ryder Cup achievements but if he is in bad form, he is bad form. The fact is that in 2012 he didn't play all that well, he just played against players who played worse. He had one hot streak of 5 consecutive birdies in Session 4. IJP/Rory were not very good through the first 14 holes and they had dug themselves a pretty big hole.

If one of the 2nd String wins this week, the modern Fab Four from England could all see themselves outside the top nine, along with Jimenez and GMAC.

And I would love to see Paul Casey become a fly in the ointment!

Looking at the Standings there are only 10 players in the field that can move into the top 9. despite the 792,000 Euro first place prize and 64 OWGR Points.

On the Euro list, players 5-10 are in range of #4 Stenson at 1.8 MM Euro: Poulter, Jimenez, Luiten, Gonzo, F Molinari

On the World Pt List: In addition to the five players above, Westwood, Gallacher, Larrazabal, Blixt, and Fisher can move into the top Nine. (GMac would also be in range but he is not playing.)

GPB wrote:As a Yank who has said the same thing about US Ryder Cup Wildcards, I think Lifetime Achievements are over-rated.

I know Poulter has  "Monty-like" and "Seve-esque" Ryder Cup achievements but if he is in bad form, he is bad form.  The fact is that in 2012 he didn't play all that well, he just played against players who played worse.  He had one hot streak of 5 consecutive birdies in Session 4.  IJP/Rory were not very good through the first 14 holes and they had dug themselves a pretty big hole.

If one of the 2nd String wins this week, the modern Fab Four from England could all see themselves outside the top nine, along with Jimenez and GMAC.

And I would love to see Paul Casey become a fly in the ointment!

Poulter won 4 out of 4. America only played poorly in the Singles. They were well on top in the sessions and not one of them got a hiding 10-6 up of you recall. Anyway, isn't it the American's fault that they DIDN'T birdie any of the last 5 holes in that game? Can't blame Poulter for that, credit where it's due, you aren't playing badly if you shoot 5 straight birdies right when you need to and under pressure, you could easily say that IJP/Rory weren't playing well enough to keep up with the yanks until 14 and that the yanks were only winning up to that point because IJP and Pube Head were playing poorly, but that wouldn't suit your argument.

I don't recall any Americans (bar the consistently dismal Nine Chins and Mickelson) play all that poorly until the singles. Everyone else stood up. Dufner, Bradley, Snedeker, Johnson,Mullet Watson etc, whilst Europe had plenty players not playing well. Can you use Europe not playing well as an excuse for America being 10-6 up after the Sessions?

For the record, Zach Johnson and Jason Dufner did birdie 3 of those last 5 holes.

http://www.rydercup.com/usa/scoring/scorecard/4/68

Rory/IJP were only two under in Fourball through 12 holes. That is NOT Stellar.

If you look at the rest of of Poulter's matches that week, again it was not stellar. Poulter happened to draw players that did not play well.

Poulter was 2 under in his singles match against Simpson

Poulter/Rose were even par in their Foursome match against Bubba/Simpson on Saturday morning

Poulter/Rose were -1 in their foursome match against Stricker/Woods on Friday morning.

The only thing that counts is the win, but don't try to tell me that Poulter played well. Because other than that 5 hole streak on Saturday afternoon, he didn't play well.

Fair enough, he might not have played "well" as you put it, but then again, he didn't exactly play poorly.

-2 thru 12 might not look that great, but -7 thru 18 isn't bad is it?

FWIW, the US Team didn't play all that badly compared to the European team in the Singles.

Out of 216 possible holes (12 matches * 18 holes), 206 holes were played. That says the average match went to the 17th hole. Every match but one was tight!

Compare that 1999, with another 10-6 lead erased, the Yanks dominated the Singles. There was only 191 holes played.

The Stars aligned for the Euros to beat the DLIII's team that day. Basically any other lineup change on either side, and the Yanks would be holding the cup (all other factors being equal).

Well, that's all if's and buts and speculation, Any other line up and you could say anything about the scores. America might have won them all, so might Europe. Could have had 12 halves or there could have been twelve 10 and 8's. We just don't know.

Tight matches doesn't mean either player played well though or isn't a measure of quality. They could both be very good and match each other or they could be just as bad as one another except for the odd hole.

Europe won it with the Top Five of their Singles Batting Order;
Donald over Bubba
Poulter over Simpson
McIlroy over Bradley
Rose over Mickelson
Lawrie over Sneds.
Each entirely predictable and each contrived to convince Europe that they could win, USA that they could lose.
A pro's batting order for Ollie, a poor line-up from Davis - especially the first three - who must have guessed that was the way Europe would go.
 
Actually reckon the crucial shot was Luke Donald's tee-shot on the Par-3 17th (edit, thanks Davie, on Saturday evening in fourball play) after Tiger had stiffed his for a near-certain bird, Lukey answered by hitting within tap-in distance.
Loved it!

Luke beat bubba and still stiffed Tiger? That must be out on video in brown paper wrapper surely?

I agree with GPB that Poulter wasn't playing particularly well (until it mattered). Fact is also that Europe was quite lucky to pull it off. Rose's putt against Phil was 1 in 100, and Europe had several lucky breaks at that time. (I use the term luck, others would use "very favorable outcome".)

I also think it was a no-brainer from team Europe to front-load the singles line-up, trailing as we did, hence also a huge mistake by Love not to do the same, allowing Europe to gain momentum. (In a football penalty shoot-out I also never understand why the coach sometimes puts his best players as number 4 and 5 -- at that time it might be too late....)

Cheers Davie, Correction made!

Isn't it a mistake to even attempt to define someone as playing well or badly by scoring to par in a matchplay tournament? If Poulter is "only" 2-under through 12 it might not sound amazing, but if his opponent is putting himself in trouble on most holes, and Poulter is just hitting fairways and greens to put the pressure on, then it's perfect matchplay golf. The RC and matchplay in general might be a bit of a lottery, but when you're record in the last three tournaments is 11 points from 13, it's a fair indication that he's quite good at the format, form or no form.

Match play is format that you just have to play better than your opponent.

Ernie Els reached the semi-finals of the Match Play this year. And IIRC, shooting over par in the first three rounds to do it. And playing Spieth in the Qtrs who didn't play very well.

I don't take too much stock in match play results.

And IMO, the stars aligned against the USA on that Sunday. The Line up wasn't bad, it was just a crap shoot. If Webb and Mickelson had been reversed, Webb still would have lost and Mickelson won.

The ocean goer putt that Rose made was just one of those stars aligning.

So...getting back to GBPs statement that I think prompted the debate yesterday....i.e. that Lifetime achievements are overrated followed by the assertion that Poulter never played that well in 2012. Are you advocating that if the stats and the facts suggest he's not playing well in stroke play events over the summer and misses automatic qualification, Poulter should not be picked??

It would be a brave McGinley to leave him out. To be honest he never really shines in stroke play events. If he does need a pick, it certainly won't be the first time.

He could of course go to Gleneagles and have a 'mare but to me a matchplay record is a matchplay record, he's delivered consistently and there would be nothing to suggest he won't deliver again. Can't imagine any of the Yanks being keen to draw him either

All if's and buts. You can't possibly say Jesus Webb would still have lost and Mickelson would have won. In Matchplay you are affected by what your opponent does.  

All this "stars aligning" crap is just that, crap. Europe outplayed America (even if you claim they were only slightly less bad than the Americans) on the final day. Simple as that.

Poulter is an absolute shoe-in for the Ryder Cup. The difference between him being picked for RC and Nine Chins is that Poulter has proven to actually be a good pick, and 9C is a wretched, non team player of a pick who looks like he'd rather not be there, and I don't think he will be this year.

Super- I thought someone here recently had shown evidence that Woods actually has a decent record in the singles in Ryder cup??

He will always get a captains pick if fit, you can't not pick one of the greatest players ever.

His record is not bad in singles, (4-1-2) but a singles point only represents 1/14.5 of what is actually required, and he STINKS at the other formats and as singles is only 25% of what he'd personally be playing for (providing he's only going to play 4 out of 5) So for a potential 1 point gain in singles, he's likely to give away at least 2 out of the remaining 3 he's playing for. Not a good return especially when his pairings stats are 9-16-1. That's not good.

It is retarded in the extreme to make a captains pick for someone in a matchplay tournament on past strokeplay glory when that player as been utterly ordinary in RC Matchplay.
It's as stupid as claiming that simply because you have lots of majors, it means you are a good pick for Ryder Cup. It doesn't.
Dining out on past glories, unrelated glories, is no reason to pick someone.

THe best Ryder Cup players in recent years, Westwood, Donald, Poulter, Garcia, Monty have NO majors, so regardless of your strokeplay/major prowess, it should have no bearing on whether you get a pick, especially when it appears you have no desire to be there, a la nine chins.

So, you certainly CAN leave out one of the best players ever, especially when it appears they don't enjoy the Ryder Cup, and their prowess as one of the "greatest players ever" doesn't transfer to Ryder Cup.
It would be like Harrington being picked on his major haul.

Imagine you had Poulter or Woods on the same team, both needing a Captains pick, you wouldn't in your life pick Woods.

Still I hope Woods will get a pick. More fun for us.

And you would never pick Europeans based on their major wins, because they hardly have any!

pedro wrote:Still I hope Woods will get a pick. More fun for us.

And you would never pick Europeans based on their major wins, because they hardly have any!

Indeed, and majors are irrelevant. 5 out of the last 6 RC's go to Europe. Majors are irrelevant, as is ranking and to some extent, strokeplay form, and clearly how much the bible thumpers pray doesn't help either