Selfish Sensible or Crazy

Stay with me on this if you will. At the weekend I was playing with one of the committee members and he told me that they had decided to make a couple of changes to the course this year. The changes they'd agreed were in the main good, but one thing that I didn't agree with, was that they had decided to toughen up the course. The way they were proposing to do it, is by allowing the rough to get knee high, and also reduce the width of many of the fairways.

In my opinion the course is a good test anyway, and in medals and comps are even tougher because we use the blue championship tees. The last time we allowed the cabbage to encroach on the fairways and get deep, there were players looking for balls on every hole, slowing the game down considerably. QC events were taking well over 5-hours. Balls that would normally be on the fairway or first cut, were now harder to find, so again slowing up play. Our QC events are tough enough as it is, because we use the blue championship tees, so playing to your handicap you need a cracking round just to stay still, and getting a cut is tough. So the committee who are all low handicappers decide to make the test harder, why? Like most clubs the majority of players will be mid to high handicappers, and many like me will want to reduce their handicaps, and will now find it almost impssible under the new conditions. I have a feeling that many will now decide to only play a minimum of events which reduces the funds, and reduces the number of winners.

Are they being selfish doing this, or does it make sense or are they been absolutley crazy

I could be nice about it... but the truth is they are fornicating idiots who clearly fancy their sisters.

R&A wrote:
How administrators can minimise round times:
Do not overload the course by using short starting intervals. When play is in two- balls, at least eight minutes should be allowed between groups and in three or four balls, at least 10 minutes should be given.

If possible, incorporate starter’s gaps throughout the course of the day to allow for clearance of any delays that have arisen.

Encourage players to play from tees that suit their ability and ask the starter to guide the players in this respect before the round.

The rough for daily play should be of such a length so as to avoid numerous lost balls.

Hole locations for daily play should not be too severe and neither should the green speeds.

Advise players of the time that should be taken to play the course and remind them of their obligations with regards to pace of play, i.e. keep up with the group in front and allow quicker groups to pass through.

Basically all they are doing is slowing the course down and making themselves happy.

Put in a complaint and ask for a review before anything is done. Something this drastic should be reversible by the members at an EGM.

Doc

It's a question of balance. Nothing wrong with knee deep rough but it should be a long way back from the fairway with plenty of graded rough in between. It is possible to make a course tough but still playable.

It does sound like your committee is being selfish, only comfort is that the CSS will go up making it possible to get cut.

I would not hold back in telling them they could not do anything more ridiculous if they tried. It is such a bad idea it is hard to know where to begin.

Maybe the best way to combat this is to write a letter to the committee outlining your concerns. There is no doubt this will increase lost balls and round times, in turn reducing the fun factor of the round.

Surely it depends on what the CSS is at present. If it is below par then there is no harm making it harder. No one wants to play on a course which doesn't punish wayward shots, at least for distance.

If it is already at par or above then they are probably making an error in judgement.

CSS is irrelevant.

SSS is relevant however as the CSS is related to the SSS in such a way that it cannot be above or below by a certain margin.

And growing rough is unlikely to affect the SSS. The course needs to be modified with features other than long grass in order for this to be affected and agreed by the country authority which certifies the course.

SR

If you go 50 yards of line, then fair enough maybe you loose a ball. But going 5-10 yards of line then you should be compromised on the next shot but easily find your ball.

To really punish a bad drive you have to make sure the green complex is full of interesting strategy from all angles of approach.

Mac, hence why i said WAYWARD. Missing the fairway by a few feet isn't exactly wayward.

Perhaps you can explain why TOC doesn't punish you 90% of the time if you hit it 50 yards right or left. Surely thats a bad design? Very little strategic golf is required to play this course.

LJ, I didn't advocate the growing of grass, I simply said that if the CSS is low then perhaps the course ought to be made harder.

If they want to toughen it up they should vary the areas that they allow to grow up. On the left on some holes, the right on others... it's a compromise at least.

I know that SR... what I am saying is that a transistory thing such as longer grass does not make the county assess the course as more difficult.

Considering this is what Doc is saying will happen... It's almost a worthless effort. And will just cause slow play. Not a higher SSS. Although CSS will probably increase due to excessive stupidity.

Guys

Thanks for the comments so will give a bit more detail that should answer some of your points.

We have at present a first cut which is now ankle deep and then 3 yards further in we hit the cabbage which is shin deep at present. They are going to allow the first cut to encroach onto the fairways to tighten them, which means we will be looking at an area of first cut now being c7 yards before hitting the cabbage which will be grown to knee high. The existing ankle deep first cut can still be punishing especially when wet and grabby.

The SSS is around the par area now.

Waywards shots were always punished by the copious amounts of cabbage anyway and deservedly so.

The course is being changed slightly on 2 holes, which were originally designed to be dog-legs. Players are carrying the dog-legs, so new tees are being built further back to ensure the dog-legs come back into play.

Only 2 sections of cabbage are not going to change and thats on 2 fairways which kick to the right down a slope and usually means you are into first cut. The committee decided that these fairways have a certain amount of luck involved and bad luck shouldn't be punished excessivly.

2 seasons ago before we convinced them to cut back the cabbage, you can guarantee that there were players on every hole looking for balls. Players taking provisionals or even walking back to the tee because they couldn't find balls. We asked them to colour code some trees to give us an idea of the line/area where to look for balls, thats how bad it was. So many new trees in the cabbage and putting colours on them would give us an idea. Luckily they decided that 6 and 7-hour rounds were a joke, and decided to cut it back.

I played with a single handicapper a couple of weeks ago, and we were joking about the cabbage from a couple of years ago. he actually said that the cabbage we have now is tough enough, and even the first cut is punishing and can cost you a stroke by rolling into it by an inch now.

So I'm begining to think that a few Cat1 and 2 members are being selfish, and the majority are going to be punished. I think these Cat 1 players should be forced to split up and play in medals with 2 high handicappers.

selfish... maybe not.

Idiots. Certainly.

When you have people who don't think that a course in meant to be playable running the place this is what you get.

RTJ was once proudly told by a member of some course in the US that no-one had ever broken par at their course.

His response was. Why? What's wrong with it.


Sounds like your greens comm needs a healthy dose of attitude adjustment.

Crazy,

Unless the course generally plays easy, why make it more difficult - I've experienced what happens when they allow the grass to grow too much; long medal rounds together with general member and visitor frustration. One reason given at the time was the cost of maintenance being reduced. What they didn't take into account was the loss of income of the the members that left as a result.

The course I'm a member at decided to grow the rough just off the fairways a couple of years ago. It was as close to leaving as I've ever come.

Rounds seemed to go on for days, you felt like you had to hit a provisional everytime you couldn't clearly see the ball just in case you'd had a bad bounce from the fairway, and the fun was completely sucked out of competition rounds.

I play off 6 and the ball usually goes in the direction I'm aiming so I'd say I was generally in favour of making the course a challenge but not that way.

Thankfully someone in authority must have seen sense as the "experiment" lasted only a couple of months.

Don't knock it until it's been tried.

Making players concentrate on their accuracy does have some beneficial side effects. When they concentrate on hitting it straight instead of belting it into next week, the course becomes a safer place, rounds start to speed up again, and - surprisingly - handicaps come down.

Now of course there are limits - if the fairways are narrowed, and the deep rough is too close, then it'll be counter-productive. But if the fairways are left to a reasonable width, and the rough has a couple of cuts before you get to the thick stuff, then you may find things improve, not get worse.

Unfortunately, your mid handicap golfers will never learn about course management and will almost always hit driver, the hardest club to hit straight in the bag. Making the rough more penal will just get them in more trouble more often.

sometimes i think we tend to forget this is a hobby and it should be fun. our course grew the rough everywhere the same year as carnasty 99 ??? and i went up to 7 from 4

one of the county players who still played alot of club golf went up .1 22 rounds in a row !!!!!

I played with my daughter in an invitation day at a course that had fairly tough rough but very forgiving fairways.

After the game we were sitting next to a group of fairly loudmouthed guys all wingeing about the 'unfair' legnth of the rough and the number of balls they had lost.

My daughter suddenly got up and explained to the group that most of the fairways were at least 60 yards wide and if they could not hit them they should not be playing in events such as this, and perhaps they should play on less challenging courses.

Priceless moment.

My experience of Committee members who want to toughen up courses is that they don't stay in office very long.'')

SR
Nowadays I can hit my driver straighter then my wedge

At our AGM we were informed that our course is going in the other direction; i.e. make the rough less dense to speed up play, with the exception being for doglegs where if you try and cut the corner off with the Big Dog and it doesn't come off, then I'm afraid it's tough t1ts! Picking up on the good point made earlier by YADS - we have only been able to achieve this by the owner procuring more grass cutters. The Head Green-keeper always prioritises the greens above all else and his opinion is that cutting the rough right down is nowhere near hi-pri as getting the greens right; something we have struggled with (like many exposed courses due to harsh winter conditions) this year.

Having rough 8 inches high just off a fairway which is narrow (and especially one which slopes sideways such as a lot of ours do) is business suicide imho.