England vs India - Second Test - Lords

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 13 Jul 2014, 7:40 pm

Seeming as we have such a short turnaround thought I'd stick up a thread

England have added Simon Kerrigan to the squad interestingly. I'd imagine he must be in serious contention, or else what's the point of adding another body?
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Post by KP_fan on Sun 13 Jul 2014, 7:44 pm

on chanel 5 Vaughan said he has heard Kerrigan will play.

How will he play ?

in place of Plunket or stokes...or Cook?
surely they can't drop Ali..who has scored match saving 100s and picked as many wickets a 5th bowler can ?
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Post by KP_fan on Sun 13 Jul 2014, 9:02 pm

--India on the other hand will go unchanged.......

--Dhoni as defensive as Flower picks bowlers for their batting skills.......so jadeja who was a part-time spinner in Ranji plays as India's first specialist spinner and 4th bowler.

argument...ashwin is no better...and that's correct.....but why is ashin in the squad and not Ojha and Mishra who are much better spinners.
??
so that Dhoni can pick Jadeja unhindered because there is no better spinner Smile

--and Binny labelled as 5th bowler....when even for his Ranji side he is a specialist batsman who bowls part-time seam up.
the fact...dhoni has no intention to play a specialist 5th bowler so he fools himself and everyone by picking a specialist batsman(Binny)...and instead of batting him at No.6 where he is suited for.......he puts him at No.8 so that he can calls Binny a specialist bowler..because thats the position at which bowlers bat

--it's not a bad combination though......dhoni should use Binny like Bhuvi.........standup to the stumps......and give him the newer ball.

and if he sheds his stubbornness  he might bat Binny at 6......saving the ugly dance that he has to perform himsefl as a no. 6 batsman
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Post by KP_fan on Sun 13 Jul 2014, 9:59 pm

and here is a piece of stat that i intutively knew...CI confirmed:

This is only the fourth time out of 17 that India have not begun an England tour with a loss. On the other three occasions India went on to win the series. Smile

( smilie not from CI)
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Post by NickisBHAFC on Sun 13 Jul 2014, 11:25 pm

Hopefully that idiot Cook will be dropped.

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Post by Duty281 on Sun 13 Jul 2014, 11:36 pm

Hopefully our selectors would realise, as I'm sure they will, that dropping Cook would be a rash, reckless and unwise decision.

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Post by Mat on Mon 14 Jul 2014, 12:17 am

Get the feeling Moeen will be dropped(unfairly) so that Kerrigan can come in with Stokes going to 6. I think Jordan May come in for Broad on the basis Broad was hardly on the field in the final session

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 14 Jul 2014, 12:25 am

I don't think we'll see Kerrigan at Lords, but will do so at the Ageas Bowl. Kerrigan will play for Lancs starting on Wednesday, surely if playing he wouldn't be allowed to do so?

Anyways its imperative that Cook wins the toss and bats. No matter what. And then we need to bat big
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Post by KP_fan on Mon 14 Jul 2014, 8:02 am

Duty281 wrote:Hopefully our selectors would realise, as I'm sure they will, that dropping Cook would be a rash, reckless and unwise decision.

Re:Cook.... here is the opinion from the opposite( and more widely acknowledged) end of the spectrum
Piers Morgan ✔ @piersmorgan

Oh FFS. #CaptainWeasel #wicket
6:00 PM - 13 Jul 2014
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Post by guildfordbat on Mon 14 Jul 2014, 9:46 am

Olly wrote:I don't think we'll see Kerrigan at Lords, but will do so at the Ageas Bowl. Kerrigan will play for Lancs starting on Wednesday, surely if playing he wouldn't be allowed to do so?

Anyways its imperative that Cook wins the toss and bats. No matter what. And then we need to bat big

Olly - thanks for getting this thread underway so quickly for this non stop series.

Where did you learn that Kerrigan is playing for Lancs on Wednesday? Seems odd (which doesn't mean you're wrong!!).

I'll comment a bit more on the spinner position later today.

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Post by kingraf on Mon 14 Jul 2014, 11:44 am

How is Piers Morgan's opinion worth a damn?
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Post by GSC on Mon 14 Jul 2014, 11:49 am

Because it backs up KPFs opinion.

Doubt Kerrigan will play at Lords, not going to throw him to the wolves again. Likely unchanged for this test, Jordan to play the 3rd I'd guess
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Post by KP_fan on Mon 14 Jul 2014, 12:04 pm

kingraf wrote:How is Piers Morgan's opinion worth a damn?

only 4.19 Milllion followers


Captain Weasel.......I like that

there are many gems...another one below

Piers Morgan @piersmorgan  ·  19h
And urrrmm.....we want to ....urrrrmm......have our options......urrrrm open....urrmm. #CaptainWeasel #Inspiring
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Post by GSC on Mon 14 Jul 2014, 12:23 pm

How many of those 4.19m follow him based on his cricketing knowledge and insight (apart from you)?
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Post by kingraf on Mon 14 Jul 2014, 12:23 pm

4.19 million followers because he has/had a program on CNN... not because he's a respected cricket scribe!
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Post by KP_fan on Mon 14 Jul 2014, 12:26 pm

kingraf wrote:4.19 million followers because he has/had a program on CNN... not because he's a respected cricket scribe!

you can make what's called an assumption of convenience  laughing
and then any debate gets so conveinent thumbsup 
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Post by kingraf on Mon 14 Jul 2014, 12:59 pm

How is it convenient to assume most of his followers don't care about cricket when he normally apologises in advance for speaking about cricket?
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Post by alfie on Mon 14 Jul 2014, 1:00 pm

KP_fan wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Hopefully our selectors would realise, as I'm sure they will, that dropping Cook would be a rash, reckless and unwise decision.

Re:Cook.... here is the opinion from the opposite( and  more widely acknowledged) end of the spectrum
Piers Morgan        ✔ @piersmorgan

Oh FFS. #CaptainWeasel #wicket
6:00 PM - 13 Jul 2014

Possibly not the most unbiased source to be quoting...and one unlikely to obtain a senior position in the ECB in the near future .

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Post by KP_fan on Mon 14 Jul 2014, 4:23 pm

alfie wrote:Possibly not the most unbiased source to be quoting...and one unlikely to obtain a senior position in the ECB in the near future .

actually ECB and unbiased don't go hand in hand



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Post by GSC on Mon 14 Jul 2014, 4:25 pm

Even by your standards KPF this isn't a great attempt.
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Post by Duty281 on Mon 14 Jul 2014, 4:46 pm

KP_fan wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Hopefully our selectors would realise, as I'm sure they will, that dropping Cook would be a rash, reckless and unwise decision.

Re:Cook.... here is the opinion from the opposite( and  more widely acknowledged) end of the spectrum
Piers Morgan        ✔ @piersmorgan

Oh FFS. #CaptainWeasel #wicket
6:00 PM - 13 Jul 2014

If you take Piers Morgan seriously, I feel sorry for you.

He's a vile, odious troll.

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Post by KP_fan on Mon 14 Jul 2014, 4:54 pm

Duty281 wrote:
KP_fan wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Hopefully our selectors would realise, as I'm sure they will, that dropping Cook would be a rash, reckless and unwise decision.

Re:Cook.... here is the opinion from the opposite( and  more widely acknowledged) end of the spectrum
Piers Morgan        ✔ @piersmorgan

Oh FFS. #CaptainWeasel #wicket
6:00 PM - 13 Jul 2014

If you take Piers Morgan seriously, I feel sorry for you.

He's a vile, odious troll.

i do not go by the name....but content
and his content aligns with the reality how millions see it

for example his 3 lettered tweet at Cook's bowling charade was PERFECT
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Post by Duty281 on Mon 14 Jul 2014, 5:03 pm

KP_fan wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
KP_fan wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Hopefully our selectors would realise, as I'm sure they will, that dropping Cook would be a rash, reckless and unwise decision.

Re:Cook.... here is the opinion from the opposite( and  more widely acknowledged) end of the spectrum
Piers Morgan        ✔ @piersmorgan

Oh FFS. #CaptainWeasel #wicket
6:00 PM - 13 Jul 2014

If you take Piers Morgan seriously, I feel sorry for you.

He's a vile, odious troll.

i do not go by the name....but content
and his content aligns with the reality how millions see it

for example his 3 lettered tweet at Cook's bowling charade was PERFECT

And calling Cook "captain weasel" is what, exactly? Brave?

Piers Morgan is like one of those kids at school - gives it plenty of mouth, but if someone responds he'll run crying to the teacher. On twitter, he goes along with the common consensus of the day...just like with what he said about Aaron Ramsey.

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Post by DirectView2 on Mon 14 Jul 2014, 5:54 pm

Jadeja or Binny should be dropped for Ashwin, Ashwin could have easily mopped the tail out and India could have had the upper hand.

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Post by ShankyCricket on Mon 14 Jul 2014, 5:56 pm

We should bring in Ashwin for Jadeja. Not that I think he is any better but when you have only third rate spinners, its better to keep rotating them until someone clicks rather than letting the opposition getting used to the same bowler. Ashwin can bat too, unlike Jadeja in tests and possesses a carom ball that the young English batsmen may not pick. Okay, I'm gasping at straws here and I don't think it will add much to the potency of the bowling attack but its still better to rotate and at least it improves our batting.

Shami looked really short on rhythm and fitness in the first Test. He was carrying an injury in the warm up games and looks like he may have been rushed back. With a short turnaround between tests, it may be a good idea for him to sit out at Lord's on what I expect to be another placid surface, recover fully and come back at the Ageas Bowl. We can't afford to drain out our best bowler so early in the series on flat pitches when he is clearly nowhere near full form or fitness. Varun Aaron should come in.

Ishant once again showed that he is simply not good enough to maintain any sort of consistency over a test match. Even after bowling one of his best spells in recent times, he ended up with figures of 3/150. I would replace him with Ishwar or Pankaj but with MSD as captain, its a pipe dream I guess.

Binny has earned himself at least 1 more Test. It was a very impressive knock under pressure, even if on a flat pitch. Thought he showed a very good technique especially against the new ball. I'm not getting excited as yet and he will have to be assessed on a match by match basis but his highest score in tests is already better than what Nohit managed in 8 innings overseas over the winter. Hopefully, in more helpful conditions, he will deliver with the ball too. Not expecting it, mind you but since he has earned himself another Test, I hope he does well.

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Post by guildfordbat on Mon 14 Jul 2014, 6:59 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
Olly wrote:I don't think we'll see Kerrigan at Lords, but will do so at the Ageas Bowl. Kerrigan will play for Lancs starting on Wednesday, surely if playing he wouldn't be allowed to do so?

Anyways its imperative that Cook wins the toss and bats. No matter what. And then we need to bat big

Olly - thanks for getting this thread underway so quickly for this non stop series.

Where did you learn that Kerrigan is playing for Lancs on Wednesday? Seems odd (which doesn't mean you're wrong!!).

I'll comment a bit more on the spinner position later today.

Olly - have just commented further on the "England Spinner Options" thread. Interested to know about Kerrigan apparently being already set to play for Lancs this week. Cheers.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 14 Jul 2014, 7:05 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:
Olly wrote:I don't think we'll see Kerrigan at Lords, but will do so at the Ageas Bowl. Kerrigan will play for Lancs starting on Wednesday, surely if playing he wouldn't be allowed to do so?

Anyways its imperative that Cook wins the toss and bats. No matter what. And then we need to bat big

Olly - thanks for getting this thread underway so quickly for this non stop series.

Where did you learn that Kerrigan is playing for Lancs on Wednesday? Seems odd (which doesn't mean you're wrong!!).

I'll comment a bit more on the spinner position later today.

Olly - have just commented further on the "England Spinner Options" thread. Interested to know about Kerrigan apparently being already set to play for Lancs this week. Cheers.

I think I may have gotten a little misinformed but he is currently playing against Notts in the county Championship game which goes on until Wednesday. 

So it'll be unlikely they play him in the lords test, giving him what pretty much 8/9 days cricket in a row!
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Post by KP_fan on Mon 14 Jul 2014, 7:15 pm

Duty281 wrote:
KP_fan wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
KP_fan wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Hopefully our selectors would realise, as I'm sure they will, that dropping Cook would be a rash, reckless and unwise decision.

Re:Cook.... here is the opinion from the opposite( and  more widely acknowledged) end of the spectrum
Piers Morgan        ✔ @piersmorgan

Oh FFS. #CaptainWeasel #wicket
6:00 PM - 13 Jul 2014

If you take Piers Morgan seriously, I feel sorry for you.

He's a vile, odious troll.

i do not go by the name....but content
and his content aligns with the reality how millions see it

for example his 3 lettered tweet at Cook's bowling charade was PERFECT

And calling Cook "captain weasel" is what, exactly? Brave?

.

actually it's brutally honest and amazingly creative to find a term as apt as that
that's why millions love him
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Post by KP_fan on Mon 14 Jul 2014, 7:16 pm

ShankyCricket wrote:

Binny has earned himself at least 1 more Test.

yeah maan....that's why people grudge Rohit's luck....for an Inninf like that Rohit would have booked 10 more tests
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Post by Hoggy_Bear on Mon 14 Jul 2014, 7:19 pm

KP_fan wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
KP_fan wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
KP_fan wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Hopefully our selectors would realise, as I'm sure they will, that dropping Cook would be a rash, reckless and unwise decision.

Re:Cook.... here is the opinion from the opposite( and  more widely acknowledged) end of the spectrum
Piers Morgan        ✔ @piersmorgan

Oh FFS. #CaptainWeasel #wicket
6:00 PM - 13 Jul 2014

If you take Piers Morgan seriously, I feel sorry for you.

He's a vile, odious troll.

i do not go by the name....but content
and his content aligns with the reality how millions see it

for example his 3 lettered tweet at Cook's bowling charade was PERFECT

And calling Cook "captain weasel" is what, exactly? Brave?

.

actually it's brutally honest and amazingly creative to find a term as apt as that
that's why millions love him

Facile and childish more like.
But hey, each to their own I suppose.

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Post by guildfordbat on Mon 14 Jul 2014, 7:24 pm

Olly - fair enough, cheers.

When Kerrigan - or, indeed, any specialist spinner - comes in, it's also going to be a problem for the selectors as to who to leave out.

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Post by KP_fan on Mon 14 Jul 2014, 7:25 pm

hoggy wrote:Facile and childish more like.
But hey, each to their own I suppose.

Nero was fiddling while Rome was burning is what I got reminded of at Captain Weasel's antics with ball in hand
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Post by msp83 on Mon 14 Jul 2014, 10:19 pm

Duty281 wrote:Hopefully our selectors would realise, as I'm sure they will, that dropping Cook would be a rash, reckless and unwise decision.
Rash, reckless and downright stupid, that has been the ECB way with many a high-profile calls in recent times, only an eternal optimist like duty can be so sure of them not continuing the same way!.


Last edited by msp83 on Tue 15 Jul 2014, 12:25 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by msp83 on Mon 14 Jul 2014, 10:35 pm

ShankyCricket wrote:We should bring in Ashwin for Jadeja. Not that I think he is any better but when you have only third rate spinners, its better to keep rotating them until someone clicks rather than letting the opposition getting used to the same bowler. Ashwin can bat too, unlike Jadeja in tests and possesses a carom ball that the young English batsmen may not pick. Okay, I'm gasping at straws here and I don't think it will add much to the potency of the bowling attack but its still better to rotate and at least it improves our batting.

Shami looked really short on rhythm and fitness in the first Test. He was carrying an injury in the warm up games and looks like he may have been rushed back. With a short turnaround between tests, it may be a good idea for him to sit out at Lord's on what I expect to be another placid surface, recover fully and come back at the Ageas Bowl. We can't afford to drain out our best bowler so early in the series on flat pitches when he is clearly nowhere near full form or fitness. Varun Aaron should come in.

Ishant once again showed that he is simply not good enough to maintain any sort of consistency over a test match. Even after bowling one of his best spells in recent times, he ended up with figures of 3/150. I would replace him with Ishwar or Pankaj but with MSD as captain, its a pipe dream I guess.

Binny has earned himself at least 1 more Test. It was a very impressive knock under pressure, even if on a flat pitch. Thought he showed a very good technique especially against the new ball. I'm not getting excited as yet and he will have to be assessed on a match by match basis but his highest score in tests is already better than what Nohit managed in 8 innings overseas over the winter. Hopefully, in more helpful conditions, he will deliver with the ball too. Not expecting it, mind you but since he has earned himself another Test, I hope he does well.
Agree with everything on Binny and on Ishant.
Share the concern on Shami too. But I don't think the management would rest him if he's fit enough to play. I like to see Pankaj in there at some point, but on a flat road, with reverse the only hope for the bowler, I don't know what would be the call I make on Shami.
Can't agree on the Jadeja/Ashwin bit. Pragyan Ojha had a few action remodeling and since then hasn't been the same bowler. Amit Mishra had his chances and never took them, and despite a couple of good performances in limited over cricket, never suggested that he has turned around towards any kind of consistency, and can't be expected to do anything special on unhelpful conditions. I believe Jadeja and Ashwin are the better options available to India. Ashwin clearly is the first choice spinner in spinning tracks, and is clearly the better bat. But I think Jadeja is the better bowler in a 4 man attack. Yes he didn't take a wicket in the game. But he went at hadly 2 an over and bowled some 35 overs in the England innings, thus sharing a lot of the workload. Remember Ashwin was so awful and unboalable in South Africa, the in his last test that Dhoni just couldn't bring him on in the first innings. Ashwin doesn't get too many wickets, and doesn't offer enough control. Jadeja does the latter, and he's the only Indian spinner to have taken a 5for in overseas conditions in the last 3 years or so. Unlike what KPF said, he was never a parttime spinner for his Ranji side. He had taken over 40 wickets in his very first Ranji season, it is just that he's a proper all-rounder in domestic and limited overs international cricket. He's more of a bowling all-rounder in test cricket though. Somehow, he bats like a madman in test cricket, he's better than that in my view....... I would have Jadeja very much in the side, and Ashwin can only come in for Binny as the all-rounder. He can't fit into the team as part of a 4 man attack overseas.

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Post by Gerry SA on Tue 15 Jul 2014, 12:12 am

England need a holding spinner someone like an Ashley Giles. I'm not sure Kerrigan will be much use. Maybe a dart bowler like Briggs would've been a better pick. Spinner would come in for Stokes as Ali is the better batsman IMO. And Ali also offers off spin.

As for India they need to make 2/3 changes. Varun Aaron in for Ishant Sharma. Sharma proved yet again he's not Test class. R Ashwin for Binny. Ashwin is the better batsman anyway. I'd also consider Pandey for Jadeja. But the forecast is very hot for the second Test, so two spinners would be better for the Indians

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Post by LivinginItaly on Tue 15 Jul 2014, 9:14 am

Cook
Robson
Ballance
Bell
Root
Ali
Prior
Plunkett
Broad
Anderson
Kerrigan

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Post by GSC on Tue 15 Jul 2014, 9:30 am

Anyway, Kerrigans inclusion seems more of a confidence booster than anything. Can't imagine he's going to play on a pitch traditionally hard on spin against batsmen well versed against spinners.

Said it a few times, if the pitches don't favor spin, we might as well go with Ali against this Indian side since we don't have a spinner good enough to consistently tie down their batsmen without assistance.
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Post by ncfclad1991 on Tue 15 Jul 2014, 10:23 am

Does anyone know why Bell has so rarely bowled for England, not at any great length but for short spells in a game if nothing is happening?

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Post by Duty281 on Tue 15 Jul 2014, 11:10 am

KP_fan wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
KP_fan wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
KP_fan wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Hopefully our selectors would realise, as I'm sure they will, that dropping Cook would be a rash, reckless and unwise decision.

Re:Cook.... here is the opinion from the opposite( and  more widely acknowledged) end of the spectrum
Piers Morgan        ✔ @piersmorgan

Oh FFS. #CaptainWeasel #wicket
6:00 PM - 13 Jul 2014

If you take Piers Morgan seriously, I feel sorry for you.

He's a vile, odious troll.

i do not go by the name....but content
and his content aligns with the reality how millions see it

for example his 3 lettered tweet at Cook's bowling charade was PERFECT

And calling Cook "captain weasel" is what, exactly? Brave?

.

actually it's brutally honest and amazingly creative to find a term as apt as that
that's why millions love him

Especially Jeremy Clarkson! Oh wait a sec...

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Post by KP_fan on Tue 15 Jul 2014, 4:13 pm

Jeremy Clarkson......that convicted racist living on last leg of begged apology Doh 
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Post by GSC on Tue 15 Jul 2014, 4:16 pm

And yet, if he were tweeting about Cook needing to be replaced he'd be the epitome of credible no doubt.
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Post by Duty281 on Tue 15 Jul 2014, 5:08 pm

KP_fan wrote:Jeremy Clarkson......that convicted racist living on last leg of begged apology Doh 

I assume that comment will be removed as Jeremy Clarkson has never been convicted of anything and to say so is libellious.

Plus he's an actual legend, not least for flooring Morgan two, or three, times!

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Post by KP_fan on Tue 15 Jul 2014, 6:41 pm

GSC wrote:And yet, if he were tweeting about Cook needing to be replaced he'd be the epitome of credible no doubt.

i doubt that Wink
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Post by kingraf on Tue 15 Jul 2014, 6:53 pm

I do like Piers, he's like "#WengerOut", then "we've got Ozil, #WengerIn", then "we needed a striker not Ozil, #WengerOut".
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Post by Gerry SA on Tue 15 Jul 2014, 7:06 pm

http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-india-2014/content/story/760629.html

Anderson charged with level 3 offence

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Post by msp83 on Tue 15 Jul 2014, 7:21 pm

Hmmmmm!. What is it all about? Hopefully the correct judgment in line with past actions of the ICC would come soon on the issue.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 15 Jul 2014, 7:22 pm

Strange that such a serious allegation wasn't made sooner, or almost instantly.

Still at least its not like India have much of an influence on the ICC, oh no wait a minute...
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Post by KP_fan on Tue 15 Jul 2014, 7:27 pm

jadeja and Dhoni play for CSK.
and the owner of CSK is the.....would you believe it the chairman of ICC....and their maai Baap ( god father )

the Bihar cricket association and ex players from india and players association were begging ECB and ACB to object and stop him.

they even wrote to british and Aus prime ministers.

NOW lets see how this cookie crumbles
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Post by kingraf on Tue 15 Jul 2014, 7:53 pm

I didn't seed the incident, but if true...
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Post by KP_fan on Tue 15 Jul 2014, 7:55 pm

if jimmy is banned for 4 tests....at least Captain Weasel will have an excuse
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