Golovkin: Boxing's Best Puncher Since Tyson?

by hazharrison Sun 27 Jul 2014, 9:33 am

First topic message reminder :

Is Golovkin the scariest hitter since Tyson?

Jackson, Trinidad, McClellan and Valero created an aura - a mystique - when they fought. Is Golovkin on that level? Is he the biggest hitter of them all - Tyson even?

by Derbymanc Tue 29 Jul 2014, 10:02 pm

Strongback wrote:
Derbymanc wrote:Are you saying that 2mil for 1 fight is better than 17 mil for 2? and also do you think Chavez can make that money elsewhere?

It was Golovkin and a one or two fight extension.

Chavez has one fight left on his contract and wants to leave Arum directly after that fight.

Arum was trying to push Chavez into a contract extension.

Chavez tried to negotiate a one fight deal and Arum basically said 'you want to leave me then I'm only offering you $2 million to fight Golovkin'.

Arum offered Chavez $7 million to fight Golovkin on the condition he sign a two fight extension that would guarantee Chavez $12-17 million.

I get that Chavez only wanted the fight with Golovkin, but what I'm saying is, do you think it's unreasonable for Arum to offer him 12-17mil for 2 fights instead???

I dunno bout you but if I'd have been offered that (or if it ever happens to my lad) I'd be biting that hand off.

by hazharrison Tue 29 Jul 2014, 10:05 pm

Derbymanc wrote:
Strongback wrote:
Derbymanc wrote:Are you saying that 2mil for 1 fight is better than 17 mil for 2? and also do you think Chavez can make that money elsewhere?

It was Golovkin and a one or two fight extension.

Chavez has one fight left on his contract and wants to leave Arum directly after that fight.

Arum was trying to push Chavez into a contract extension.

Chavez tried to negotiate a one fight deal and Arum basically said 'you want to leave me then I'm only offering you $2 million to fight Golovkin'.

Arum offered Chavez $7 million to fight Golovkin on the condition he sign a two fight extension that would guarantee Chavez $12-17 million.

I get that Chavez only wanted the fight with Golovkin, but what I'm saying is, do you think it's unreasonable for Arum to offer him 12-17mil for 2 fights instead???

I dunno bout you but if I'd have been offered that (or if it ever happens to my lad) I'd be biting that hand off.

It was a hell of a deal. Chavez's advisors need a kicking for that! How many fighters would be guaranteed a $5m purse after losing a PPV match?!!

None of this helps substantiate Strongback's delusions, though.

by Strongback Tue 29 Jul 2014, 10:19 pm

hazharrison wrote:
Derbymanc wrote:
Strongback wrote:
Derbymanc wrote:Are you saying that 2mil for 1 fight is better than 17 mil for 2? and also do you think Chavez can make that money elsewhere?

It was Golovkin and a one or two fight extension.

Chavez has one fight left on his contract and wants to leave Arum directly after that fight.

Arum was trying to push Chavez into a contract extension.

Chavez tried to negotiate a one fight deal and Arum basically said 'you want to leave me then I'm only offering you $2 million to fight Golovkin'.

Arum offered Chavez $7 million to fight Golovkin on the condition he sign a two fight extension that would guarantee Chavez $12-17 million.

I get that Chavez only wanted the fight with Golovkin, but what I'm saying is, do you think it's unreasonable for Arum to offer him 12-17mil for 2 fights instead???

I dunno bout you but if I'd have been offered that (or if it ever happens to my lad) I'd be biting that hand off.

It was a hell of a deal. Chavez's advisors need a kicking for that! How many fighters would be guaranteed a $5m purse after losing a PPV match?!!

None of this helps substantiate Strongback's delusions, though.

Maybe Chavez thinks he can make more on his own. You really are being disingenuous about this.

-------------------------------------

Report: Haymon Offering Chavez Jr. $47 Million, Multi-Year Deal
Paul Magno | Apr 17, 2014 | Comments 0

Arturo Sacramento of Yahoo Deportes is reporting that former middleweight titlist, Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. is being courted aggressively by behind-the-scenes power broker, Al Haymon.

Reportedly, Haymon is offering the second generation star a multi-year contract worth as much as $47 million.

The former concert promoter has been busy lately, snatching up additional talent to add to his already impressive roster of fighters. Most recently, Haymon signed Amir Khan and cruiserweight contender BJ Flores to his stable of fighters, already several dozen strong, which includes stars such as Floyd Mayweather, Adonis Stevenson, and Deontay Wilder.

Chavez is reported to be considering his options, recently meeting with promoter Bob Arum over the Pacquiao-Bradley weekend in Las Vegas. Signing with Haymon could likely mean moving away from HBO due to growing friction between the manager/adviser and the network.

This also leaves a proposed July pay-per-view bout with Gennady Golovkin up in the air, pending Chavez’s decision.

The loss of Chavez would be a major blow for HBO, who counted Chavez’s cards as some of the highest-rated shows on their network. The premium channel was also counting on a Chavez-Golovkin PPV, around which they could anchor their boxing programming for the second half of 2014.

by Derbymanc Tue 29 Jul 2014, 10:26 pm

Couple of things need ironing out with that though Strongy, how many years is the multi-year contract for?
how many fights a year does he have to have?
As it's all gone quite on this front (3 months ago) is it down the tube?
He had a 17mil offer on the table for 2 fights, he could have fulfilled that by now (dpeending on the beating by GGG) and still taken a massive multi fight deal.

I can see the point your trying to make though but you've got to think that he either has pants advisors or he was actively ducking GGG while trying to make it look like he wasn't.

(I still can't get over turning down 17 mil for TWO fights)

by hazharrison Tue 29 Jul 2014, 10:29 pm

An obscure source with no direct quotes from anyone (from April to boot) and so nothing more than supposition. He's still under contract with Arum.

Back to the illuminati books for you son.

by catchweight Tue 29 Jul 2014, 10:30 pm

If he was so desperate to leave Arum and Golovkin was such a protected fighter he could have taken the 2 million (still good money) and been free to do what he wants. He would have been free as of now to either hold Arum to a bigger deal or go off and sign with who he wants.

by hazharrison Tue 29 Jul 2014, 10:30 pm

I honestly dread to think what he's going to cobble together next!!!

by Strongback Tue 29 Jul 2014, 10:31 pm

Derbymanc wrote:Couple of things need ironing out with that though Strongy, how many years is the multi-year contract for?
how many fights a year does he have to have?
As it's all gone quite on this front (3 months ago) is it down the tube?
He had a 17mil offer on the table for 2 fights, he could have fulfilled that by now (dpeending on the beating by GGG) and still taken a massive multi fight deal.

I can see the point your trying to make though but you've got to think that he either has pants advisors or he was actively ducking GGG while trying to make it look like he wasn't.

(I still can't get over turning down 17 mil for TWO fights)

47 is a lot more than 17. It doesn't what you have to do 47 will always be more than 17.

This is the reason Chavez is trying to get away from Arum.

by hazharrison Tue 29 Jul 2014, 10:32 pm

catchweight wrote:If he was so desperate to leave Arum and Golovkin was such a protected fighter he could have taken the 2 million (still good money) and been free to do what he wants. He would have been free as of now to either hold Arum to a bigger deal or go off and sign with who he wants.

It's all a conspiracy man!! Black is white, no-one is who they seem. TRUST NO-ONE!!!

by hazharrison Tue 29 Jul 2014, 10:33 pm

Strongback wrote:
Derbymanc wrote:Couple of things need ironing out with that though Strongy, how many years is the multi-year contract for?
how many fights a year does he have to have?
As it's all gone quite on this front (3 months ago) is it down the tube?
He had a 17mil offer on the table for 2 fights, he could have fulfilled that by now (dpeending on the beating by GGG) and still taken a massive multi fight deal.

I can see the point your trying to make though but you've got to think that he either has pants advisors or he was actively ducking GGG while trying to make it look like he wasn't.

(I still can't get over turning down 17 mil for TWO fights)

47 is a lot more than 17. It doesn't what you have to do 47 will always be more than 17.

This is the reason Chavez is trying to get away from Arum.

Load of cobblers. A completely unreliable source with no direct quotes from anyone. $47m. Jesus. Who's he fighting for that? King Kong?

by Strongback Tue 29 Jul 2014, 10:35 pm

hazharrison wrote:I honestly dread to think what he's going to cobble together next!!!

So Chavez does not want to leave Arum? I'm not cobbling anything together.

Arum chose to offer Chavez $2m for a one fight deal against Golovkin and you chose to ignore that fact as it didn't suit your argument. Simple.

by Strongback Tue 29 Jul 2014, 10:37 pm

catchweight wrote:If he was so desperate to leave Arum and Golovkin was such a protected fighter he could have taken the 2 million (still good money) and been free to do what he wants. He would have been free as of now to either hold Arum to a bigger deal or go off and sign with who he wants.

Why should Chavez take well below the market value? He is the draw and will sell the PPV.

by hazharrison Tue 29 Jul 2014, 10:37 pm

Strongback wrote:
hazharrison wrote:I honestly dread to think what he's going to cobble together next!!!

So Chavez does not want to leave Arum? I'm not cobbling anything together.

Arum chose to offer Chavez $2m for a one fight deal against Golovkin and you chose to ignore that fact as it didn't suit your argument. Simple.

Masteful retort. Masterful.

I've already acknowledged that you plank -- common knowledge to anyone but yourself. Why don't you just give up and go back to the X Files?

by hazharrison Tue 29 Jul 2014, 10:39 pm

Strongback wrote:
catchweight wrote:If he was so desperate to leave Arum and Golovkin was such a protected fighter he could have taken the 2 million (still good money) and been free to do what he wants. He would have been free as of now to either hold Arum to a bigger deal or go off and sign with who he wants.

Why should Chavez take well below the market value? He is the draw and will sell the PPV.

His guarantee was $2m. He'd also take a cut of PPV receipts on top (which could be upwards of $10m).

Keep up Mulder.

by catchweight Tue 29 Jul 2014, 10:43 pm

So Arum gave Chavez (supposedly desperate to leave) a 2 million fight deal which would have released him but they didn't opt to take it because.....

It wasn't market value.

It really sounds like Chavez has it tough. 2 million for fighting a supposed protected fighter and you can go sign your 47 million deal. Stick around and get 17 million for two fights win or lose.

Really sounds like Chavez is desperate to leave. I mean a paltry 2 million for one fight and then you can go off a sign this big 47 million offer.

by Strongback Tue 29 Jul 2014, 10:47 pm

Dan Rafael quote before the GGG V Chavez negotiations broke down:

“If Chavez winds up with Haymon, who he is talking to, there isn’t going to be a GGG fight. However, from what I understand, Chavez still has about 9 months left on his Top Rank contract, which means one more fight. When Arum returns from overseas next week, he and Chavez are supposed to meet. I still think that at the end of the day he and Chavez work things out and he winds up doing the GGG fight.”

by Strongback Tue 29 Jul 2014, 10:51 pm

hazharrison wrote:
Strongback wrote:
hazharrison wrote:I honestly dread to think what he's going to cobble together next!!!

So Chavez does not want to leave Arum? I'm not cobbling anything together.

Arum chose to offer Chavez $2m for a one fight deal against Golovkin and you chose to ignore that fact as it didn't suit your argument. Simple.

Masteful retort. Masterful.

I've already acknowledged that you plank -- common knowledge to anyone but yourself. Why don't you just give up and go back to the X Files?

You did not acknowledge that, you're as thick as a short length of 4x2 when it suits you.

by Strongback Tue 29 Jul 2014, 10:53 pm

hazharrison wrote:
Strongback wrote:
catchweight wrote:If he was so desperate to leave Arum and Golovkin was such a protected fighter he could have taken the 2 million (still good money) and been free to do what he wants. He would have been free as of now to either hold Arum to a bigger deal or go off and sign with who he wants.

Why should Chavez take well below the market value? He is the draw and will sell the PPV.

His guarantee was $2m. He'd also take a cut of PPV receipts on top (which could be upwards of $10m).

Keep up Mulder.

PPV would not kick in until 375,000 buys.

You were the first one to post the article, did you actually read it?

by hazharrison Tue 29 Jul 2014, 10:53 pm

You just blew this thread wide open!! $47m. Great sense of humour.

Chavez is now close to fighting Froch in January. Let's see if he's signed an extension with Arum as part of that deal.

by Strongback Tue 29 Jul 2014, 10:56 pm

catchweight wrote:So Arum gave Chavez (supposedly desperate to leave) a 2 million fight deal which would have released him but they didn't opt to take it because.....

It wasn't market value.

It really sounds like Chavez has it tough. 2 million for fighting a supposed protected fighter and you can go sign your 47 million deal. Stick around and get 17 million for two fights win or lose.

Really sounds like Chavez is desperate to leave. I mean a paltry 2 million for one fight and then you can go off a sign this big 47 million offer.

Chavez wanted market value for the Golovkin fight which for him was a lot more than $2m.

by hazharrison Tue 29 Jul 2014, 11:02 pm

Strongback wrote:
hazharrison wrote:
Strongback wrote:
catchweight wrote:If he was so desperate to leave Arum and Golovkin was such a protected fighter he could have taken the 2 million (still good money) and been free to do what he wants. He would have been free as of now to either hold Arum to a bigger deal or go off and sign with who he wants.

Why should Chavez take well below the market value? He is the draw and will sell the PPV.

His guarantee was $2m. He'd also take a cut of PPV receipts on top (which could be upwards of $10m).

Keep up Mulder.

PPV would not kick in until 375,000 buys.

You were the first one to post the article, did you actually read it?

And what, they wouldn't hit that? The Martinez fight sold 475k.

by hazharrison Tue 29 Jul 2014, 11:05 pm

Strongback wrote:
hazharrison wrote:
Strongback wrote:
hazharrison wrote:I honestly dread to think what he's going to cobble together next!!!

So Chavez does not want to leave Arum? I'm not cobbling anything together.

Arum chose to offer Chavez $2m for a one fight deal against Golovkin and you chose to ignore that fact as it didn't suit your argument. Simple.

Masteful retort. Masterful.

I've already acknowledged that you plank -- common knowledge to anyone but yourself. Why don't you just give up and go back to the X Files?

You did not acknowledge that, you're as thick as a short length of 4x2 when it suits you.

Considering your warped viewpoints on here (where everything is upside down), that probably makes me a genius. Cheers knuckle head.

by Strongback Tue 29 Jul 2014, 11:05 pm

hazharrison wrote:You just blew this thread wide open!! $47m. Great sense of humour.

Chavez is now close to fighting Froch in January. Let's see if he's signed an extension with Arum as part of that deal.

Yeah I've read HBO are bringing Matchroom and Arum together to try to make the fight.

The reality is though Chavez wants to go with Haymon as he takes a much smaller cut than Arum. Haymon is the biggest player in town and is close to controlling US boxer due to the vast number of top fighters he has signed up.

If Uncle Bob tries to tie Chavez up in contract extensions we could see this fight scuttled.

Is Hearn tagging Froch along? Will DeGale be next anyway?

by Derbymanc Tue 29 Jul 2014, 11:05 pm

he was offered 17 million for 2 fights Strongy, TWO fights. the 47 mill hasn't been heard of since then.

Unless he earns more than 17mil in his next 2 fights then there's a problem there somewhere.

by jimdig Tue 29 Jul 2014, 11:05 pm

Boxing scene reporting ggg's hbo cable viewing numbers as under 1 million, first major fight to preform that badly since January. GGG just became a much harder sell.

by hazharrison Tue 29 Jul 2014, 11:06 pm

Strongback wrote:
catchweight wrote:So Arum gave Chavez (supposedly desperate to leave) a 2 million fight deal which would have released him but they didn't opt to take it because.....

It wasn't market value.

It really sounds like Chavez has it tough. 2 million for fighting a supposed protected fighter and you can go sign your 47 million deal. Stick around and get 17 million for two fights win or lose.

Really sounds like Chavez is desperate to leave. I mean a paltry 2 million for one fight and then you can go off a sign this big 47 million offer.

Chavez wanted market value for the Golovkin fight which for him was a lot more than $2m.

Regardless of who wanted what with what rider. Chavez turned down the fight. That is fact.

When has Golovkin ever turned down a fight?

by hazharrison Tue 29 Jul 2014, 11:08 pm

jimdig wrote:Boxing scene reporting ggg's hbo cable viewing numbers as under 1 million, first major fight to preform that badly since January. GGG just became a much harder sell.

Unsurprising when he's a 1-16 favourite (on UK books) over a non-American.

by Strongback Tue 29 Jul 2014, 11:10 pm

hazharrison wrote:
Strongback wrote:
hazharrison wrote:
Strongback wrote:
catchweight wrote:If he was so desperate to leave Arum and Golovkin was such a protected fighter he could have taken the 2 million (still good money) and been free to do what he wants. He would have been free as of now to either hold Arum to a bigger deal or go off and sign with who he wants.

Why should Chavez take well below the market value? He is the draw and will sell the PPV.

His guarantee was $2m. He'd also take a cut of PPV receipts on top (which could be upwards of $10m).

Keep up Mulder.

PPV would not kick in until 375,000 buys.

You were the first one to post the article, did you actually read it?

And what, they wouldn't hit that? The Martinez fight sold 475k.

It was a bad enough offer that Chavez's team took it as an insult. Again read the article you posted first.

by Strongback Tue 29 Jul 2014, 11:18 pm

hazharrison wrote:
Strongback wrote:
catchweight wrote:So Arum gave Chavez (supposedly desperate to leave) a 2 million fight deal which would have released him but they didn't opt to take it because.....

It wasn't market value.

It really sounds like Chavez has it tough. 2 million for fighting a supposed protected fighter and you can go sign your 47 million deal. Stick around and get 17 million for two fights win or lose.

Really sounds like Chavez is desperate to leave. I mean a paltry 2 million for one fight and then you can go off a sign this big 47 million offer.

Chavez wanted market value for the Golovkin fight which for him was a lot more than $2m.

Regardless of who wanted what with what rider. Chavez turned down the fight. That is fact.

When has Golovkin ever turned down a fight?

If Arum offers $7m then drops it to $2m then most fighters would reject that.

If Chavez gets $7m for a one off fight then maybe he takes the fight. Nobody can say except him.

BTW I have never commented on how GGG would do in any fight in this debate because my whole point as you know by now is about Golovkin's team being heavily into manipulating the media.

by hazharrison Tue 29 Jul 2014, 11:19 pm

You're excusing fighters for turning Golovkin down. Doesn't quite fit your flimsy argument.

by hazharrison Tue 29 Jul 2014, 11:19 pm

Strongback wrote:
hazharrison wrote:
Strongback wrote:
catchweight wrote:So Arum gave Chavez (supposedly desperate to leave) a 2 million fight deal which would have released him but they didn't opt to take it because.....

It wasn't market value.

It really sounds like Chavez has it tough. 2 million for fighting a supposed protected fighter and you can go sign your 47 million deal. Stick around and get 17 million for two fights win or lose.

Really sounds like Chavez is desperate to leave. I mean a paltry 2 million for one fight and then you can go off a sign this big 47 million offer.

Chavez wanted market value for the Golovkin fight which for him was a lot more than $2m.

Regardless of who wanted what with what rider. Chavez turned down the fight. That is fact.

When has Golovkin ever turned down a fight?

If Arum offers $7m then drops it to $2m then most fighters would reject that.

If Chavez gets $7m for a one off fight then maybe he takes the fight. Nobody can say except him.

BTW I have never commented on how GGG would do in any fight in this debate because my whole point as you know by now is about Golovkin's team being heavily into manipulating the media.

In your head....

by hazharrison Tue 29 Jul 2014, 11:22 pm

Looks like they've "manipulated" Thomas Hauser, too:

"Gennady is a relatively small middleweight. He comes into training camp at just under 170 pounds. Making weight is easy for him. If the money is right, he’ll fight anyone from 154 to 168 pounds. That would put Floyd Mayweather, Canelo Alvarez, and Cotto at the top of his wish-list. But it’s unlikely that those three will go near him. Andre Ward, Carl Froch, and Julio Cesar Chavez Jr are the big names at 168. But Froch has already said “no” to the idea of a Golovkin fight, and neither Ward nor Chavez seems anxious for the test. Look for the other middleweight beltholders (like Peter Quillin) to also avoid him."

by Derbymanc Tue 29 Jul 2014, 11:26 pm

Strongy are you seriously saying that 17million for 2 fights is a bad deal??????

by Strongback Tue 29 Jul 2014, 11:27 pm

hazharrison wrote:You're excusing fighters for turning Golovkin down. Doesn't quite fit your flimsy argument.

Look a man could go to work on a Monday and his boss calls him in and tells him he's giving him a 70% pay cut.

What do you think the man will tell his boss?

You can take an autistic type black and white view of things when it's suits your argument. There are mitigating circumstances and it is perfectly acceptable that the employee (Chavez) is not happy to proceed with a bad deal.

by Derbymanc Tue 29 Jul 2014, 11:30 pm

How is it a bad deal????

Seriously, I can't look at 17 million (or even 10 mill for that matter) for 2 fights (inc GGG) and see it as a bad deal at all.

by Strongback Tue 29 Jul 2014, 11:31 pm

Derbymanc wrote:Strongy are you seriously saying that 17million for 2 fights is a bad deal??????

He wants to get away from Arum, in the US the contracts are very legally binding unlike in the UK. What's to stop Arum screwing Chavez around again further down the road?

If Chavez is talking to Haymon and bickering with Arum you can be sure Chavez see's himself getting a better deal away from Arum.

by hazharrison Tue 29 Jul 2014, 11:32 pm

Strongback wrote:
hazharrison wrote:You're excusing fighters for turning Golovkin down. Doesn't quite fit your flimsy argument.

Look a man could go to work on a Monday and his boss calls him in and tells him he's giving him a 70% pay cut.

What do you think the man will tell his boss?

You can take an autistic type black and white view of things when it's suits your argument. There are mitigating circumstances and it is perfectly acceptable that the employee (Chavez) is not happy to proceed with a bad deal.

So you're excusing Chavez. How does that support your argument?

Alutism as an insult? Really?

by Derbymanc Tue 29 Jul 2014, 11:34 pm

Your tying yourself in knots, If a contract is more legally binding in the states and Chavez has a contract for TWO fights only with a minimum guarantee, Arum can't force him to do anything else.

The Haymon deal hasn't materialized, the Arum deal ws on the table.

by catchweight Tue 29 Jul 2014, 11:39 pm

Whats the "spin" coming from Golovkins management? They have identified the top priority fights they want, they have made themselves available for the big names and they cant get the fights. Of course they are going to complain they are being swerved.

Meanwhile you have rival promoters like DiBella saying Golovkin is a "monster" that none of the middleweights want to go near. Hearn saying hed love to promote Golovkin as he Golovkin puts "the fear of God" into other promoters and being candid on why the fight is not a priority for them. Arum explaining that Golovkin was willing to sign but Chavez wasn't. Cottos management saying a Golovkin fight is "premature". Are these guys all part of the Golvkin spin machine as well?

Meanwhile Golovkin has to pay over the odds just to get any decent contender in the ring with him and his management watch all the big money fights drift by. Whats their objective? Have Golovkin retire into the sunset in 3/4 years time having never made big money but secure in the knowledge that he hoodwinked the boxing world into thinking he was avoided? Sounds like a genius plan.

by hazharrison Tue 29 Jul 2014, 11:40 pm

catchweight wrote:Whats the "spin" coming from Golovkins management? They have identified the top priority fights they want, they have made themselves available for the big names and they cant get the fights. Of course they are going to complain they are being swerved.

Meanwhile you have rival promoters like DiBella saying Golovkin is a "monster" that none of the middleweights want to go near. Hearn saying hed love to promote Golovkin as he Golovkin puts "the fear of God" into other promoters and being candid on why the fight is not a priority for them. Arum explaining that Golovkin was willing to sign but Chavez wasn't. Cottos management saying a Golovkin fight is "premature". Are these guys all part of the Golvkin spin machine as well?

Meanwhile Golovkin has to pay over the odds just to get any decent contender in the ring with him and his management watch all the big money fights drift by. Whats their objective? Have Golovkin retire into the sunset in 3/4 years time having never made big money but secure in the knowledge that he hoodwinked the boxing world into thinking he was avoided? Sounds like a genius plan.

by hazharrison Tue 29 Jul 2014, 11:41 pm

Apparently JFK shot himself to boost his popularity.

by Strongback Tue 29 Jul 2014, 11:47 pm

hazharrison wrote:
Strongback wrote:
hazharrison wrote:You're excusing fighters for turning Golovkin down. Doesn't quite fit your flimsy argument.

Look a man could go to work on a Monday and his boss calls him in and tells him he's giving him a 70% pay cut.

What do you think the man will tell his boss?

You can take an autistic type black and white view of things when it's suits your argument. There are mitigating circumstances and it is perfectly acceptable that the employee (Chavez) is not happy to proceed with a bad deal.

So you're excusing Chavez. How does that support your argument?

Alutism as an insult? Really?

The Chavez v GGG fight could have been made if Arum wasn't being Arum. It was also a fight GGG was willing to take at 168lbs. If he is willing to fight at 168 then why not go out and really try to make a name for himself and fight Ward. He's not going to become PPV by fighting opponents on the level of Macklin and Geale. He needs to add risk or stump up enough money to get Cotto to fight him.

I didn't call you autistic or use the word as an insult. I compared one of the symptoms of autism to the way you were being deliberately black and white on an issue as it suited you argument.

by Strongback Tue 29 Jul 2014, 11:49 pm

Derbymanc wrote:Your tying yourself in knots, If a contract is more legally binding in the states and Chavez has a contract for TWO fights only with a minimum guarantee, Arum can't force him to do anything else.

The Haymon deal hasn't materialized, the Arum deal ws on the table.

With all due respect Derbymanc I don't think you are following the thread. I don't believe I can explain my points any more clearly than I have.

by hazharrison Tue 29 Jul 2014, 11:51 pm

Ok (sigh) how does he fight Ward (who can't fight)? And how does that make a name for him outside of boxing nerds (considering Ward isn't well known and isn't a PPV fighter)? And if it's not PPV, where does he get the money to " stump up"?

The autistic remark was ignorant. Reported.

by hazharrison Tue 29 Jul 2014, 11:52 pm

Strongback wrote:
Derbymanc wrote:Your tying yourself in knots, If a contract is more legally binding in the states and Chavez has a contract for TWO fights only with a minimum guarantee, Arum can't force him to do anything else.

The Haymon deal hasn't materialized, the Arum deal ws on the table.

With all due respect Derbymanc I don't think you are following the thread. I don't believe I can explain my points any more clearly than I have.

No-one knows what the hell you're waffling about!!

by Derbymanc Tue 29 Jul 2014, 11:57 pm

Your points have boiled down to

Chavez was offered a 17 million 2 fight contract with Arum which was unfair, it then switched to well he was offered a 2 million 1 fight contract without explaining why a 2 fight 17 mil contract is bad.

You then stated that US contract law was stricter than the UK's which would have made the 17 mil contract guaranteed that it would only be for 2 fights.

You've also pointed out a 47 mil contract that was 'allegedly' offered by Haymon which hasn't been mentioned by anyone else since it was mooted months ago.

I'd like to see how you explain again how this all means that GGG is ducking anyone.

by Strongback Wed 30 Jul 2014, 12:17 am

hazharrison wrote:
catchweight wrote:Whats the "spin" coming from Golovkins management? They have identified the top priority fights they want, they have made themselves available for the big names and they cant get the fights. Of course they are going to complain they are being swerved.

Meanwhile you have rival promoters like DiBella saying Golovkin is a "monster" that none of the middleweights want to go near. Hearn saying hed love to promote Golovkin as he Golovkin puts "the fear of God" into other promoters and being candid on why the fight is not a priority for them. Arum explaining that Golovkin was willing to sign but Chavez wasn't. Cottos management saying a Golovkin fight is "premature". Are these guys all part of the Golvkin spin machine as well?

Meanwhile Golovkin has to pay over the odds just to get any decent contender in the ring with him and his management watch all the big money fights drift by. Whats their objective? Have Golovkin retire into the sunset in 3/4 years time having never made big money but secure in the knowledge that he hoodwinked the boxing world into thinking he was avoided? Sounds like a genius plan.

Golovkin's management need to sh!t or get off the pot. Raise the money needed to get Cotto or Canelo in the ring or if they are not willing to do that then move up to168. Ward would love the fight.

Trying to ride on the coat tails of Mayweather's fame by calling him out when the fight will never happen is an example of cheap publicity.

I remember Lou DiBella waxing lyrically about Froch's toughness after the Taylor fight. Billy Nelson was similarly high in his praise of Crawford when he outclassed Ricky Burns.

The reality with any fighter is that we don't really know how good they are until they step up in class. The middleweight division is particularly weak at the moment so that's why a crack at Ward is much more attractive and would establish GGG's level.

by Derbymanc Wed 30 Jul 2014, 12:20 am

Hang on, so your saying Chavez was right to reject Arums 17mil offer but GGG should take a pay cut and his opponent should be paid over the odds???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

by hazharrison Wed 30 Jul 2014, 12:23 am

Strongback wrote:
hazharrison wrote:
catchweight wrote:Whats the "spin" coming from Golovkins management? They have identified the top priority fights they want, they have made themselves available for the big names and they cant get the fights. Of course they are going to complain they are being swerved.

Meanwhile you have rival promoters like DiBella saying Golovkin is a "monster" that none of the middleweights want to go near. Hearn saying hed love to promote Golovkin as he Golovkin puts "the fear of God" into other promoters and being candid on why the fight is not a priority for them. Arum explaining that Golovkin was willing to sign but Chavez wasn't. Cottos management saying a Golovkin fight is "premature". Are these guys all part of the Golvkin spin machine as well?

Meanwhile Golovkin has to pay over the odds just to get any decent contender in the ring with him and his management watch all the big money fights drift by. Whats their objective? Have Golovkin retire into the sunset in 3/4 years time having never made big money but secure in the knowledge that he hoodwinked the boxing world into thinking he was avoided? Sounds like a genius plan.

Golovkin's management need to sh!t or get off the pot. Raise the money needed to get Cotto or Canelo in the ring or if they are not willing to do that then move up to168. Ward would love the fight.

How do you suggest they do this? A sponsored walk? It would take an astronomical purse to persuade either to fight him.

Trying to ride on the coat tails of Mayweather's fame by calling him out when the fight will never happen is an example of cheap publicity.

It could happen at 154 if Mayweather wanted it.

I remember Lou DiBella waxing lyrically about Froch's toughness after the Taylor fight. Billy Nelson was similarly high in his praise of Crawford when he outclassed Ricky Burns.

The reality with any fighter is that we don't really know how good they are until they step up in class. The middleweight division is particularly weak at the moment so that's why a crack at Ward is much more attractive and would establish GGG's level.

Ward is unable to fight at present. Is that too difficult a concept for you?

by Hammersmith harrier Wed 30 Jul 2014, 12:30 am

Chavez rejected the offer because he wants his contract with Arum to end after his next fight, it's that simple and no future guarantees are going to make him want to carry on working with him.

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