Aviva Premiership Round Six

by **Ozzy3213** Mon Oct 06, 2014 1:59 pm

First topic message reminder :

So round five produced yet more excitement as what is shaping up to be a great season continued at a pace. On Friday night Bath Rugby laid down another marker, ending Saracens unbeaten start to the season at The Rec, and temporarily put themselves back at the top of the table. Saturdays games saw Quins get back on track, nilling a hapless Welsh side who look to be relegated, even this early in the season, Saints edged out Irish in a tight affair were defences were on top, and Gloucester heaped more misery on Tigers with a comfortable win at Kingsholm. Sundays offering saw Sale Sharks get one over on Wasps, to keep the middle of the table tight, and Newcastle ended their 20 game losing streak by beating high flying Exeter Chiefs at Kingston Park.

Predictions wise, it was 5 from 6 for me this week on here, with Tigers letting me down. I was only 4 from 6 elsewhere (the bookies) as I can't bet against my own team!

So here's the table after round 5;-

POS	TEAM	P	W	D	L	PF	PA	DIFF	TF	TA	TBP	LBP	PTS
1.	Northampton Saints	5	4	0	1	154	72	+82	18	6	3	1	20
2.	Bath Rugby	5	4	0	1	172	88	+84	19	11	2	1	19
3.	Saracens	5	4	0	1	160	100	+60	15	12	2	0	18
4.	Exeter Chiefs	5	3	0	2	157	88	+69	16	9	1	2	15
5.	Gloucester	5	3	0	2	141	131	+10	15	15	1	1	14
6.	Harlequins	5	3	0	2	111	113	-2	12	9	1	0	13
7.	London Irish	5	2	0	3	101	112	-11	7	10	1	3	12
8.	Sale Sharks	5	2	0	3	137	125	+12	18	12	2	1	11
9	Wasps	5	2	0	3	120	119	+1	14	12	1	2	11
10.	Leicester Tigers	5	2	0	3	95	137	-42	8	13	1	1	10
11.	Newcastle Falcons	5	1	0	4	92	150	-58	11	17	0	1	5
12.	London Welsh	5	0	0	5	44	249	-205	6	33	1	0	1

On to this weeks fixtures;-

Friday 10th October 2014 19:45 Leicester Tigers vs. Harlequins

Back at Welford Road after three straight defeats, Tigers will be desperate to win this one, but will need to be a whole lot better than they were against Gloucester to do so. Quins will be buoyed by their nilling of Welsh, but that result will have little bearing on this game in reality. It's not easy to call this one, but I can't see Tigers losing a second one on the bounce at home, so am going for a Tigers win with a Quins losing bonus point in a scrappy game.

Saturday 11th October 2014 14:30 London Welsh vs. Newcastle Falcons

This is seriously must win for Welsh, even at this early stage of the season. Falcons are now up and running after beating the Chiefs, and if they can back that up this weekend with another win there will be clear daylight between themselves and Welsh, and it's tough to see where Welsh will make up the points at this stage. Having said that, Welsh will know that this is it, they have to step up now. They will need to keep in the game against a Falcons side that will come with renewed confidence, and will have to close things out better. I can't see it. For Falcons fans this one will be like London buses, you wait forever for one and then two come along at once.

Saturday 11th October 2014 15:00 Exeter Chiefs vs. London Irish

Two sides off the back of defeats last week and both will be keen to finish this block of Premiership games on a high. Both had plenty of the ball at the weekend but couldn't quite get the job done, and whoever is going to win this one will need to be more clinical. On paper the sides are evenly matched and both have exceeded most peoples pre season expectations of them. I can't quantify why really, but I just fancy us to win this one, will be tight though and I expect the Chiefs to be within 7 at the death.

Saturday 11th October 2014 15:00 Saracens vs. Gloucester

Gloucester have been really up and down this season, but have picked up a couple of good wins on the way. Saracens I don't think have really hit top gear yet, but have had too much for everyone bar an in form Bath last week. Back at Allianz Park, they won't want to lose two on the bounce, and I don't think Gloucester are yet in a place to go there and beat them. I think Saracens will go up a notch in preparation for their European game the following week, and will send Gloucester back west with nothing, whilst notching up a try bonus point themselves.

Saturday 11th October 2014 15:15 Northampton Saints vs. Sale Sharks

Sale had a good win yesterday, but Saints are a whole different prospect to Wasps and this will be a much tougher proposition for them. Saints don't lose many at the Gardens and will want to consolidate their position at the top of the table with another win before the European break. Sale will need their pack to give them a platform and if they do, then in Danny Cipriani they have a 10 who could pull of a win for them. Sadly for them, I see the Saints pack dominating, and if that happens they will win this one comfortably, and with bonus point.

Sunday 12th October 2014 14:00 Wasps vs. Bath Rugby

Bath are flying high right now, and will fancy picking up an away win here. In Ford, Eastmond and Joseph they have the in form 10-12-13 combination in the league, if not the northern hemisphere. Wasps don't quite seem to know what their best back line is just yet, and as shown yesterday, their biggest weapons can also be their biggest weaknesses, as we saw with Christian Wade scoring a great try, but also handing Sale one on a plate. If they make errors defensively like that against Bath they'll get punished. This looks a high scorer to me, possibly 5 points for Bath, and 2 for Wasps.

Ozzy's predicted table after round 6;-

Northampton Saints 25, Bath Rugby 24, Saracens 23, Exeter Chiefs 16, London Irish 16, Gloucester 14, Harlequins 14, Leicester Tigers 14, Wasps 13, Sale Sharks 11, Newcastle Falcons 10, London Welsh 1.

by **LondonTiger** Sat Oct 11, 2014 4:30 pm

Moral victory for LW as they deny Falcons a TBP

by Sgt_Pooly Sat Oct 11, 2014 4:31 pm

Welsh 3-23 Falcons

Happy with the win and shutting Welsh out. We defended superbly and looked on course for the TBP at 50mins. Credit to Welsh, they stuck in and have certainly improved from previous games.

by **Ozzy3213** Sat Oct 11, 2014 4:36 pm

17-44 in our game with 7 minutes to go. Much like against Quins in the first game of the season, we've only started playing once the game was gone.

by Sgt_Pooly Sat Oct 11, 2014 4:37 pm

That's a surprising scoreline the way you've playing Oz

by **Ozzy3213** Sat Oct 11, 2014 4:41 pm

We were poor first half, they were good and took their chances. 3-30 at half time, so we're winning the 2nd half but not much use when you're that far behind.

by **LondonTiger** Sat Oct 11, 2014 4:42 pm

Ozzy3213 wrote:17-44 in our game with 7 minutes to go. Much like against Quins in the first game of the season, we've only started playing once the game was gone.

Never sure how much you can read into late tries when the team was 44-3 down.

by Sgt_Pooly Sat Oct 11, 2014 4:43 pm

Don't worry, you'll play Welsh soon.

by **LondonTiger** Sat Oct 11, 2014 4:43 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Don't worry, you'll play Welsh soon.

Think we have them next.

by **Ozzy3213** Sat Oct 11, 2014 4:45 pm

24-44 final score. Very disappointing. Not many positives we can take from it. 5 tries for them, first team to get a try bonus point against us this year.

by **Rugby Fan** Sat Oct 11, 2014 4:49 pm

Think it's safe to say this has been the least engaging round of matches so far.

by **LondonTiger** Sat Oct 11, 2014 4:55 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:Think it's safe to say this has been the least engaging round of matches so far.

Do not understand.

by HongKongCherry Sat Oct 11, 2014 4:55 pm

I'll take the LBP. Sarries were deserved winners however whilst I'm not one to normally moan about refs I thought Dean Richards was awful. Clueless at the breakdown and scrum and I have no idea how Purdy wasn't carded for a tackle in the air. Lots of pluses for Glaws and I feel very confident we're going in the right direction.

by doctor_grey Sat Oct 11, 2014 4:56 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:Think it's safe to say this has been the least engaging round of matches so far.

43-10. Saints. And climbing? I am engaged.

by kingelderfield Sat Oct 11, 2014 5:03 pm

Sarries Glawster game was pretty good. Glaws still making poor decisions however they kept going to the end finishing with a hard fought try 21-28 to Saracens.

Standard of refereeing still just quite not good enough. Bloody difficult job but consistency is the key.

I think the yellow card for Wood was given on reputation as Glaws had a player taken in the air and no card was shown. I didn't think either were more than penalties however it’s this type of consistency that undoes the game.

by EnglishReign Sat Oct 11, 2014 5:26 pm

kingelderfield wrote:Sarries Glawster game was pretty good. Glaws still making poor decisions however they kept going to the end finishing with a hard fought try 21-28 to Saracens.

Standard of refereeing still just quite not good enough. Bloody difficult job but consistency is the key.

I think the yellow card for Wood was given on reputation as Glaws had a player taken in the air and no card was shown. I didn't think either were more than penalties however it’s this type of consistency that undoes the game.

Exactly, Kalamafoni was taken out in the air - no yellow is fine but don't then sin-bin Wood for a lesser infringement.

by **Ozzy3213** Sat Oct 11, 2014 5:27 pm

Chiefs first two tries summed up the difference between the sides.

1. Scrum on halfway, Chiefs pen. Kick into Irish 22, win the lineout, sustained pressure and eventually they score.

2. Scrum on halfway, Irish pen. Kick into Chiefs 22, overthrow the lineout, Cheifs go up upfield through the phases, sustained pressure, eventually they score.

Basic errors killed us. They were clinical and punished us almost every time we fecked up. Really well drilled side and I take back what I said pre season. They will be in the mix for 4th.

by Sgt_Pooly Sat Oct 11, 2014 5:29 pm

I don't know how Baxter does it. He seems to bring the best out of players who seem pretty ordinary at other clubs, bloke is a magician.

by **Rugby Fan** Sat Oct 11, 2014 5:35 pm

Why did these matches fall short? Well, the first rounds set the bar high, so perhaps my expectations were also high.

The results in two matches today were settled quickly: wins for Exeter and Saints. One-sided matches can still be a spectacle but I don't think they were. Elsewhere, Falcons didn't crush London Welsh. but it's difficult to get excited about the standard of rugby on offer.

Saracens vs Gloucester shaped up to be good, and ended up looking close, but the truth is that Gloucester went AWOL for a fair part of that second half.

Leicester vs Quins had good drama but the weather meant the rugby suffered a bit and Quins were less in the game than Gloucester today.

by **LondonTiger** Sat Oct 11, 2014 5:37 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:Why did these matches fall short? Well, the first rounds set the bar high, so perhaps my expectations were also high.

The results in two matches today were settled quickly: wins for Exeter and Saints. One-sided matches can still be a spectacle but I don't think they were. Elsewhere, Falcons didn't crush London Welsh. but it's difficult to get excited about the standard of rugby on offer.

Saracens vs Gloucester shaped up to be good, and ended up looking close, but the truth is that Gloucester went AWOL for a fair part of that second half.

Leicester vs Quins had good drama but the weather meant the rugby suffered a bit and Quins were less in the game than Gloucester today.

You make it sound as if you have seen all 5 matches.

For me i saw two - one live and one on TV. Was engaged by both.

by kingelderfield Sat Oct 11, 2014 5:46 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I don't know how Baxter does it. He seems to bring the best out of players who seem pretty ordinary at other clubs, bloke is a magician.

He's a quality coach.

by **Ozzy3213** Sat Oct 11, 2014 5:54 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I don't know how Baxter does it. He seems to bring the best out of players who seem pretty ordinary at other clubs, bloke is a magician.

When Lancasters time is up, he has to be high up on the RFU's list of replacements.

by Geordie Sat Oct 11, 2014 6:03 pm

Well we won as I wanted and expected. I did hope we could have put a bigger score on them...even just for the psychological edge that we can compete with the other sides who've put cricket scores on them. I

But Welsh battled well.

Guess that shows the divisions even at the bottom of the table.

The rest
--------------
Falcons
--------------
Welsh

by Geordie Sat Oct 11, 2014 6:08 pm

Oh and just to add.. Surely Mark Wilson has to be in the saxons this season. The guy is just quality and consistent with it. He was class today

by doctor_grey Sat Oct 11, 2014 6:20 pm

Did you see the match today? I am wondering if:
1. There is any hope for London Welsh at all. There are a few good players there.
2. Will Falcons make a good run at moving up the table (hoping so)?

by Geordie Sat Oct 11, 2014 6:31 pm

Dr I have been very negative about us..but I am seeing improvments. Welsh are poor let's make no bones about it.
I really don't see any hope for them.

We won't fly up the table but I do think we are capable of a few more wins now.
And whilst I'm a huge fan of Socino he's a 12 doing a job at 10. If we can stay up...we hopefully can go out and get a cracking 10 we've been shouting for a season now.

We need to give a few of the kids a run out in Europe now...don't want any of the first teamers getting injured. And we have some good kids coming through.

by doctor_grey Sat Oct 11, 2014 6:42 pm

Geordie,
Not sure you have been very negative, but it is fair to say I have seen more positive comments reading obituaries.

Your biggest need is a 10? That is the general impression out and about. Sounds like Socino is doing the job OK, though. What else after that? Sounds like your pack is good, but depth is thin?

by Geordie Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:57 pm

Ha ha yeah I've been negative, but I can see what dean is trying to do and I think he will achieve it.

Socino is a very good signing. But he is a 12. Maybe with games he will become more of a 10 but I'm not sure. With a quality 10 him at 12 and Powell and tiesi there aswell I like our options and I think it will propel Socino to the Argentina squad...I think he could be that good.

It's a slow process for us....a long term plan but it could work out well.

Sometimes I'm impatient though...

by doctor_grey Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:06 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:Sometimes I'm impatient though...

Fair enough. Both our clubs have gone through relegation. THAT drove me nuts. Though to be fair, it was clear the club needed to be turned over and we came out OK. I think we had a good plan, were a bit fortunate with our signings, and were patient with a few other players. We committed to the long term, with Stevie Myler for instance, and now he is a terrific out half. I think part of it is finding that diamond in the rough. It's taking a bit longer for you, but here's hoping it comes good soon. guinness

by Geordie Sat Oct 11, 2014 10:21 pm

Absolutely.

We have some great kids coming through and some being integrated at the minute this season. He's building it slowly so I do see us being a strong premiership club in a few years but it's patience

by kingelderfield Sun Oct 12, 2014 6:41 am

Ozzy3213 wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:I don't know how Baxter does it. He seems to bring the best out of players who seem pretty ordinary at other clubs, bloke is a magician.

When Lancasters time is up, he has to be high up on the RFU's list of replacements.

Very true, 11 months and counting Run

by **LondonTiger** Sun Oct 12, 2014 11:02 am

kingelderfield wrote:
Ozzy3213 wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:I don't know how Baxter does it. He seems to bring the best out of players who seem pretty ordinary at other clubs, bloke is a magician.

When Lancasters time is up, he has to be high up on the RFU's list of replacements.

Very true, 11 months and counting

I do get the feeling from your posts that your preferred option at RWC15 would be for England to fail to get out of the group so that Lancaster is sacked.

by ChequeredJersey Sun Oct 12, 2014 11:37 am

doctor_grey wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Sometimes I'm impatient though...
Fair enough. Both our clubs have gone through relegation. THAT drove me nuts. Though to be fair, it was clear the club needed to be turned over and we came out OK. I think we had a good plan, were a bit fortunate with our signings, and were patient with a few other players. We committed to the long term, with Stevie Myler for instance, and now he is a terrific out half. I think part of it is finding that diamond in the rough. It's taking a bit longer for you, but here's hoping it comes good soon.

You guys have taken a different post relegation approach to us, yours seems to be working better at the moment though. We've probably gone slightly too far in favour of young English talent, failed to replace a couple of key players (including Nev to a degree as he's become so hit and miss) and rely too much on the England 4 Sad

by formerly known as Sam Sun Oct 12, 2014 11:50 am

I was astonished that Evans stayed on vs Tigers for so long. Botica couldn't have played worse, other than kicking for goal Evans just wasn't at the races.

Quins major failing Is still not replacing Kohn. You can't lose that much experienced beef from the engine room and simply not replace it.

by ChequeredJersey Sun Oct 12, 2014 11:56 am

Botica is injured. We had literally no 10 on the bench and with Danny C away with his newborn, we had no player to fill in at 10 either! Robshaw would probably have been out next best bet (actually Hopper, but IMO I would rather have Chris at 10 Wink

)!

by formerly known as Sam Sun Oct 12, 2014 12:38 pm

Ah I didn't realise that. Makes sense. Neither team seemed to want to use the bench much, we only brought on Ayerza and Mele. Thought Benjamin and Barbieri would have been used for impact. Think Sinkler was the only non injury related sub for you guys.

The loss of Care was a blow to Quins and sadly robbed us of Youngs vs Care.

by kingelderfield Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:04 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
kingelderfield wrote:
Ozzy3213 wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:I don't know how Baxter does it. He seems to bring the best out of players who seem pretty ordinary at other clubs, bloke is a magician.

When Lancasters time is up, he has to be high up on the RFU's list of replacements.

Very true, 11 months and counting

I do get the feeling from your posts that your preferred option at RWC15 would be for England to fail to get out of the group so that Lancaster is sacked.

No honestly not. Ofcourse I want us to win everygame and thus the RWC15 but I know what I know and I know what I see, and as far as I can tell Lancaster is in no man's land, over and above his ability to benefit the sides further development and so in fact hindering their progress.

He's an organiser, a clip board man. He is not a coach of any real ability and so our selection and strategy is muddled and our successes reduced.

We all know how I feel so I'll leave it there. Baxter on there other hand is a real coach, maybe not the very very best but certainly a damn sight better than anything England currently possess. I credit Rowntree knows his way round the scrum.

by yappysnap Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:41 pm

Can't help but like Haskell as a captain and person, seems born for the job and an easy bloke to chat to

by kingelderfield Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:46 pm

Late news Joe Launchbury ruled out after being in a car accident. He is unhurt.

Gaskell starts with Ed Jackson on bench

by yappysnap Sun Oct 12, 2014 2:16 pm

Oh and some talk on the Quins board and on twitter that Yarde could have broken his elbow against Tigers, no facts yet but if that's the case then Roko could be called in for England after his start to the season.

by lostinwales Sun Oct 12, 2014 2:19 pm

kingelderfield wrote:Late news Joe Launchbury ruled out after being in a car accident. He is unhurt.

Gaskell starts with Ed Jackson on bench

Wade now Launchbury? What are the roads like around those parts?

by TJ Sun Oct 12, 2014 2:37 pm

Cracking match so far Bath / Wasps.

by Bathite Sun Oct 12, 2014 2:39 pm

This is phenomenal defence from Wasps

by HammerofThunor Sun Oct 12, 2014 2:39 pm

Every Wasps game I've seen this season Haskell has had a cracker. He really should be in the EPS.

by yappysnap Sun Oct 12, 2014 2:50 pm

Been brilliant so far today too, best EQ flanker in the league

by kingelderfield Sun Oct 12, 2014 2:54 pm

Its shame the wasps halfs have decided to kick the leather off......Andy Goode...em such a shame about Jackson

by **LondonTiger** Sun Oct 12, 2014 2:56 pm

Matt Mullan playing his way into the england team?

by TJ Sun Oct 12, 2014 2:58 pm

kingelderfield wrote:Its shame the wasps halfs have decided to kick the leather off......Andy Goode...em such a shame about Jackson

At least the kicks have been good. Cool

by HammerofThunor Sun Oct 12, 2014 2:58 pm

I don't think I've seen Daly miss one of those and I don't think I've seen him take one in his own half.

by yappysnap Sun Oct 12, 2014 2:59 pm

Really good game so far, two of the best teams to watch as a neutral

by yappysnap Sun Oct 12, 2014 3:01 pm

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