Munster v Scarlets and this weekends pro12 refereeing

Snigger. what a joke league:


Referee: Claudio Blessano (FIR)
Assistant Referees: Gary Conway, Dermot Blake (both IRFU)
Citing Commissioner: Peter Ferguson (IRFU)
TMO: Seamus Flannery (IRFU)
World Domination: (IRFU)

It's a bit over Irish on all those officials, I thought it was supposed to be impartial.

So it'll be a comfortable Munster win.  What's your issue, Chunky???

You'd prefer Welsh officials?  They're all too busy doing the exclusively Welsh officialised Ospreys/Blues game.  
That'll be a win for Ospreys so, to keep the Welsh great white hope riding high the top of the board.

SecretFly wrote:So it'll be a comfortable Munster win.  What's your issue, Chunky???

You'd prefer Welsh officials?  They're all too busy doing the exclusively Welsh officialised Ospreys/Blues game.  
That'll be a win for Ospreys so, to keep the Welsh great white hope riding high the top of the board.

Come on SF, even you must admit they could have been a little more impartial with the officials, mind you in saying that the touch judges do feck all anyway, and as long as the TMO is on the level, we only have the Italian ref to worry about.

LordDowlais wrote:

SecretFly wrote:So it'll be a comfortable Munster win.  What's your issue, Chunky???

You'd prefer Welsh officials?  They're all too busy doing the exclusively Welsh officialised Ospreys/Blues game.  
That'll be a win for Ospreys so, to keep the Welsh great white hope riding high the top of the board.

Come on SF, even you must admit they could have been a little more impartial with the officials, mind you in saying that the touch judges do feck all anyway, and as long as the TMO is on the level, we only have the Italian ref to worry about.

Does the Aviva Premiership use non-English officials in their League Fair play to them if they do

SecretFly wrote:So it'll be a comfortable Munster win.  What's your issue, Chunky???

You'd prefer Welsh officials?  They're all too busy doing the exclusively Welsh officialised Ospreys/Blues game.  
That'll be a win for Ospreys so, to keep the Welsh great white hope riding high the top of the board.

Exactly. This league just does not work. The logistics are too unmaneagable for a minority sport like rugby.

And results in huge discrepancies like this.

LordDowlais wrote: as long as the TMO is on the level, we only have the Italian ref to worry about.

Judging by last years fixture, that's a tall order.

LordDowlais wrote:It's a bit over Irish on all those officials, I thought it was supposed to be impartial.

Leinster have mostly Italian officials out in Itlay for their meeting with Mighty Zebre.  That has potential for a few Leinster reds
Let me see...em...yeah, Blues v Ulster a few weeks back mostly Welsh officials.
Em....Glasgow v Leinster, first week...mostly Scottish officials.

Why do people continue to do this when in their heart of hearts they know throughout a season these things balance out.  PLUS! - if they didn't.  You can be damn certain teams would be shouting about it in advance.   Can I hear anything????     Listen carefully...................... anything?

SecretFly wrote:
Leinster have mostly Italian officials out in Itlay for their meeting with Mighty Zebre.  That has potential for a few Leinster reds
Let me see...em...yeah, Blues v Ulster a few weeks back mostly Welsh officials.
Em....Glasgow v Leinster, first week...mostly Scottish officials.
?

It's happenning all over the league this weekend. It's not good for the competition.

SecretFly wrote:
Leinster have mostly Italian officials out in Itlay for their meeting with Mighty Zebre.  That has potential for a few Leinster reds
Let me see...em...yeah, Blues v Ulster a few weeks back mostly Welsh officials.
Em....Glasgow v Leinster, first week...mostly Scottish officials.
?

It's happenning all over the league this weekend. It's not good for the competition.

This weekends apointments

Munster vs Scarlets at Thomond Park
Referee: Claudio Blessano (Italy)
Assistant referees: Gary Conway (Ireland), Dermot Blake (Ireland)
Assessor: Bertie Smith (Ireland)

Benetton Treviso vs Connacht at Stadio Monigo
Referee: David Wilkinson (Ireland)
Assistant referees: Marius Mitrea (Italy), Andrea Spadoni (Italy)
Television match official: Stefano Roscini (Italy)

Edinburgh vs Newport Gwent Dragons at Murrayfield
Referee: Dudley Phillips (Ireland)
Assistant referees: David Changleng (Scotland), Bob Nevins (Scotland)
Television match official: Iain Ramage (Scotland)

Zebre vs Leinster at Stadio XXV Aprile
Referee: Neil Paterson (Scotland)
Assistant referees: Matteo Liperini (Italy), Francesco Russo (Italy)
Television match official: Carlo Damasco (Italy)

Ulster vs Glasgow Warriors at Kingspan Stadium
Referee: Nigel Owens (Wales)
Assistant referees: Nigel Correll (Ireland), Paul Haycock (Ireland)
Television match official: Simon McDowell (Ireland)

Ospreys vs Cardiff Blues at Liberty Stadium
Referee: Leighton Hodges (Wales)
Assistant referees: Sean Brickell (Wales), Gwyn Morris (Wales)
Television match official: Derek Bevan (Wales)

I'm afraid you simply cannot take a league seriously with those appointments ^.

Can't think of a popular sport other than cricket it would happen in.

However, interestingly -

Top 14, Round 9

Toulouse vs Toulon at Stade Ernest Wallon
Referee: John Lacey (Ireland)
Assistant referees: Mathieu Raynal, Thomas Déjean
Television match official: Maxime Chalon

Bordeaux-Bègles vs Castres at Stade Chaban Delmas
Referee: Ian Davies (Wales)
Assistant referees: Patrick Pechambert, Flavien Hourquet
Television match official: Gilles Cogne

La Rochelle vs Clermont at Stade Rochelais
Referee: Giuseppe Vivarini (Italy)
Assistant referees: Mathieu Delpy, Laurent Amic
Television match official: Hervé Dubes

Lyon vs Bayonne at Matmut Stadium
Referee: Francisco Pastrana (Argentina)
Assistant referees: Arnaud Blondel, Jonathan Gasnier
Television match official: Salem Attalah

Montpellier vs Oyonnax at Altrad Stadium
Referee: Andrew McMenemy (Scotland)
Assistant referees: Christophe Berdos, Christophe Malterre
Television match official: Eric Gauzins

Stade Français vs Racing-Métro at Stade Jean Bouin
Referee: Jaco van Heerden (South Africa)
Assistant referees: Laurent Cardona, Breil Laurent
Television match official: Jean Marie Piraveau

Grenoble vs Brive at Parc Des Sports Lesdiguières
Referee: Greg Garner (England)
Assistant referees: Alexandre Ruiz, Millotte Laurent
Television match official: Bonhoure Philippe

"The seven matches in Round 8 of France's Top 14, the top club competition in France, will all be refereed by referees from other countries. France have done this before. It is the innovation of their referee boss, Didier Mene, a top referee in his day. Before the referees came from the other Six Nations countries but this time there is Francisco Pastrana from Argentina and Jaco van Heerden from South Africa.

Mene said that the day was chosen with three goals in mind. Such exchanges give referees exposure and experience but this specific day has added value. Mene says: "The choice of this day to carry out these exchanges is a deliberate choice, on the eve of the European cups - to help our [i.e. French] clubs in to best prepared for the competition. On the other hand, this allows the referees of each of the nations of Europe to discover other cultures and ways of playing. That helps to make European and French refereeing stronger."

In this Mene has the support of Joël Jutge who is now the IRB's refereeing boss."

That's called "a proper league"

Thanks for starting the thread Chunky.

Munster team.

Munster: Felix Jones, Gerhard van den Heever, Andrew Smith, Ivan Dineen, Simon Zebo; JJ Hanrahan, Conor Murray; Dave Kilcoyne, Kevin O'Byrne, BJ Botha; Dave Foley, Billy Holland; Peter O'Mahony - capt, Tommy O'Donnell, CJ Stander

Replacements: Eusebio Guinazu, James Cronin, Stephen Archer, Donncha O'Callaghan, Robin Copeland, Duncan Williams, Ian Keatley, Johne Murphy

Chunky Norwich wrote:I'm afraid you simply cannot take a league seriously with those appointments ^.

Can't think of a popular sport other than cricket it would happen in.

Chunky, regardless of those appointments you don't take it seriously anyway

Seriously, though all the referee's are 'Neutral'. I surmise that you want all other officials to be 'Neutral' too ?  
Unfortunately, it's all about the money and there isn't enough at the moment - unlike the Top 14 which is swimming in it
However, I can see no reason that the TMO has to be at the ground. They just need access to the feed and clear communication links to the TV director, so they could be 'Neutral'

PenfroPete wrote: 
Unfortunately, it's all about the money and there isn't enough at the moment - unlike the Top 14 which is swimming in it

They're swimming in it because they have a good product which huge companies want to sponsor. The pro12 is Poopie because of things like officiating and can only muster a pathetic amount of sponsorship money per year.

It will never change and the celtalians will be left behind beyond a state of repair soon.

Chunky Norwich wrote:That's called "a proper league"

But all the assistant referees are French,how can that be fair?

Chunky Norwich wrote:

PenfroPete wrote: 
Unfortunately, it's all about the money and there isn't enough at the moment - unlike the Top 14 which is swimming in it

They're swimming in it because they have a good product which huge companies want to sponsor. The pro12 is Poopie because of things like officiating and can only muster a pathetic amount of sponsorship money per year.

It will never change and the celtalians will be left behind beyond a state of repair soon.

Any solutions ?

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:That's called "a proper league"

But all the assistant referees are French,how can that be fair?

British and Irish League.

If it doesn't happen, we'll be so far behind the English and French that rugby in the celtalian countries will be lost.

The Irish don't see this though, they are happy with their provinces coming top4 of the pro12 every season. Their blazers like it. It will be too late for them by the time they realise it.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:That's called "a proper league"

But all the assistant referees are French,how can that be fair?

Because the teams are all French.

Chunky Norwich wrote:British and Irish League.

If it doesn't happen, we'll be so far behind the English and French that rugby in the celtalian countries will be lost.

The Irish don't see this though, they are happy with their provinces coming top4 of the pro12 every season. Their blazers like it. It will be too late for them by the time they realise it.

OK - I can see some merit in that, but I assume you would want all officials to be 'neutral' ? Also, if the Aviva Premiership is so great why would the English clubs buy in to an B&I League ? What happens to the Italians ?

Wales normally have a region in the top 4 each season and miore recently Scotland has too

Last season (Winners –Leinster)
1 Leinster
2 Glasgow Warriors
3 Munster
4 Ulster

2012-13 (Leinster)
1 Ulster
2 Leinster
3 Glasgow Warriors
4 Scarlets

2011-12 (Ospreys)
1 Leinster
2 Ospreys
3 Munster
4 Glasgow Warriors

2010-11 (Munster)
1 Munster
2 Leinster
3 Ulster
4 Ospreys

What happens to the Italians ?

The obvious answer is that if there were a Europe-wide reorganization of club rugby the Italians would go into the French league probably the Pro D2.

Let me get this straight. The league is not working because there are too many countries involved.

And the solution is to bring in another bigger country?

Don't get me wrong. I have no objection in principal to a B&I League. But we would be in even deeper shyte when it came to agreeing on things. We would all end up doing "whatever the English (read PRL) wanted".

Love or hate the PRL they are not going to give a fock about "what the fans want" (good slogan btw) See Wasps as a case in point.

Love or hate Union controlled Rugby 3 and a half of the nations in the Pro 12 play it.

Chunky Norwich wrote:British and Irish League.

If it doesn't happen, we'll be so far behind the English and French that rugby in the celtalian countries will be lost.

The Irish don't see this though, they are happy with their provinces coming top4 of the pro12 every season. Their blazers like it. It will be too late for them by the time they realise it.

Tell you what...you have your British and Irish league... call London Irish 'Real Irish' if you must. And we'll continue with our unfair and unworkable league here in Pro12.

Better still...keep trying for the English and Welsh League. Or do you need a few cheating Irish Provinces to make the Welsh bit attractive to the English bit of the 'British and Irish'?

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:Let me get this straight. The league is not working because there are too many countries involved.

And the solution is to bring in another bigger country?

Don't get me wrong. I have no objection in principal to a B&I League. But we would be in even deeper shyte when it came to agreeing on things. We would all end up doing "whatever the English (read PRL) wanted".

Bullschit! Jenifer.  
We'd be bleedin' consumed BY the PRL!  We'd be McCaff's Men - we'd be the New English.... all for one and one for all as 'the Brits' assaulted the French Top14 castle.  

Chunky doesn't want to stand on his own two feet so he tries the Wormtongue roll every now and again with the Irish:
"em, like.............em why would yis not want to be with them lovely PRL lads, who are out for the best for everyone in a fillin'a'pockitzez way?  Wot's wrong with that?  Sure, yiz would lose your power and your influence and your Union involvement in the Provinces and McCaff would control all of that for you from London in ytour best interests...but what'd be wrong with it???"

Not a blessed thing, Chunky.  You can have our name 'Irish' with our blessing to add to the British bit if it'd sound nice.  But we'll hold on to our own Provinces and they won't play in the PRL B&I

Chunky Norwich wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:That's called "a proper league"

But all the assistant referees are French,how can that be fair?

Because the teams are all French.

Whoosh, no need to duck.

SecretFly wrote:

Tell you what...you have your British and Irish league... call London Irish 'Real Irish' if you must.  And we'll continue with our unfair and unworkable league here in Pro12.

Better still...keep trying for the English and Welsh League.  Or do you need a few cheating Irish Provinces to make the Welsh bit attractive to the English bit of the 'British and Irish'?

Yes please to either.

Pro 12 announce they are bringing in ed morrison as a consultant charged with the overseeing of ref appointments.

I would be more worried about Blessano being the biggest 'homer' ref possible than the refereeing crew being Irish if i was a Scarlets fan.

MunsterMac wrote:

What happens to the Italians ?

The obvious answer is that if there were a Europe-wide reorganization of club rugby the Italians would go into the French league probably the Pro D2.

Not true. The Italians had an option to join the ProD2 and they preferred the Celtic option (probably for the reason in that they felt they would learn more by playing against top european clubs rather than clubs at their own level.

Zebre and Treviso would finish in top 4 of the pro D2 and i'm not sure the French would like that.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote: .....  See Wasps as a case in point.

Love or hate Union controlled Rugby 3 and a half of the nations in the Pro 12 play it.

The bloke who bought Wasps is Irish ... made his money out of selling 123.ie insurance.

He could be paying a couple of wages for some of the Irish provinces  

.... or maybe he is rescueing Wasps

PenfroPete wrote:However, interestingly -

Top 14, Round 9

Toulouse vs Toulon at Stade Ernest Wallon
Referee: John Lacey (Ireland)
Assistant referees: Mathieu Raynal, Thomas Déjean
Television match official: Maxime Chalon

Bordeaux-Bègles vs Castres at Stade Chaban Delmas
Referee: Ian Davies (Wales)
Assistant referees: Patrick Pechambert, Flavien Hourquet
Television match official: Gilles Cogne

La Rochelle vs Clermont at Stade Rochelais
Referee: Giuseppe Vivarini (Italy)
Assistant referees: Mathieu Delpy, Laurent Amic
Television match official: Hervé Dubes

Lyon vs Bayonne at Matmut Stadium
Referee: Francisco Pastrana (Argentina)
Assistant referees: Arnaud Blondel, Jonathan Gasnier
Television match official: Salem Attalah

Montpellier vs Oyonnax at Altrad Stadium
Referee: Andrew McMenemy (Scotland)
Assistant referees: Christophe Berdos, Christophe Malterre
Television match official: Eric Gauzins

Stade Français vs Racing-Métro at Stade Jean Bouin
Referee: Jaco van Heerden (South Africa)
Assistant referees: Laurent Cardona, Breil Laurent
Television match official: Jean Marie Piraveau

Grenoble vs Brive at Parc Des Sports Lesdiguières
Referee: Greg Garner (England)
Assistant referees: Alexandre Ruiz, Millotte Laurent
Television match official: Bonhoure Philippe

"The seven matches in Round 8 of France's Top 14, the top club competition in France, will all be refereed by referees from other countries. France have done this before. It is the innovation of their referee boss, Didier Mene, a top referee in his day. Before the referees came from the other Six Nations countries but this time there is Francisco Pastrana from Argentina and Jaco van Heerden from South Africa.

Mene said that the day was chosen with three goals in mind. Such exchanges give referees exposure and experience but this specific day has added value. Mene says: "The choice of this day to carry out these exchanges is a deliberate choice, on the eve of the European cups - to help our [i.e. French] clubs in to best prepared for the competition. On the other hand, this allows the referees of each of the nations of Europe to discover other cultures and ways of playing. That helps to make European and French refereeing stronger."

In this Mene has the support of Joël Jutge who is now the IRB's refereeing boss."

3rd time in a row they do that. Thought they were sending french refs over to pro12 and AP games as part of the swap? Is this Ian Davies chap any good? Hopefully he's a homer

Ian Davies is a pretty good ref i think, never really been disappointed anytime i have seen him.

Not true. The Italians had an option to join the ProD2 and they preferred the Celtic option (probably for the reason in that they felt they would learn more by playing against top european clubs rather than clubs at their own level.

I was just speculating what could happen to the Italians IF a British/Irish League became a reality.

It makes sense from a geographical and practically every other point of view.

Zebre and Treviso would finish in top 4 of the pro D2 and i'm not sure the French would like that.

I doubt that very much.

This season alone I would see at least USAP, Pau, Montauban and Biaritz (once they've adjusted to life in D2) finishing ahead of them.

It'll be interesting to see how Zebre get on in the Challange Cup this season against Oyonnax and Brive, 2 clubs who have spent a fair bit of time in the D2 and who currently occupy the last 2 places in the Top 14.

Looking forward to this after a few days of hell with being off sick for a job I only started 2 months ago. Think both teams have looked patchy thus far, sometimes good sometimes very poor.

What's with Munster fans, have they fallen out of love with rugby. Thomond Park looks empty. When we have attendances like this in Wales we get slated... I have to say I'm surprised with so many empty spaces in the ground.

Is there something else on in Ireland/Munster tonight ?

I might not agree with some decisions, I'm not down there on the field, but I think the Italian ref has been pretty good so far.

Shouldn't have been a try.... Pass from Murray to Zebo was forward....

I couldn't see it that well. Though I do think Scarlets were getting penalised for Munster's early driving in the scrum once or twice...

Ref hasn't had a bad game... So far.

To be fair, after Wales Boks lat year I called for Liam Williams to be dropped for a while to calm him down a step or two. But he's again playing a blinder. I reckon the top full back in Wales at the moment. Halfpenny, if proved fit will be the 1st choice, but Liam is pushing Halfpenny all the way... Just hope Liam can keep the silly errors in check.

Aled Davies....just don't see what he does to be considered ahead of other 9s at Scarlets.

No9 wrote:Ref hasn't had a bad game... So far.

To be fair, after Wales Boks lat year I called for Liam Williams to be dropped for a while to calm him down a step or two. But he's again playing a blinder. I reckon the top full back in Wales at the moment. Halfpenny, if proved fit will be the 1st choice, but Liam is pushing Halfpenny all the way... Just hope Liam can keep the silly errors in check.

I said the same thing. But he's possibly the best 15 in the league. His time with Wales certainly developed him as a player.

Always said he reminds me of JPR, although with this seasons hair cut he doesn't resemble JPR that well anymore, but his play definitely does. Trouble is the shoulder charge was allowed when JPR played, Liam has to be very careful... Although not seen that silly play from him this season, so I hope he's learned his lesson after the Wal Bok game.

He is definitely a great full back...

he's as dirty a player as jpr anyhow

he's also a dope

Bit like your mum then?

nah...she's a much better rugby player....I'd say he's like your sister,,,ugly and will give it up for anything...especially on giro day.