Toulon at it again

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3551_9547663,00.html?

Toulon really are becoming a ridiculous club. Why don't the FFR/LNR step in and sort them out.

justified sinner wrote:http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3551_9547663,00.html?

Toulon really are becoming a ridiculous club. Why don't the FFR/LNR step in and sort them out.

Rugby in general imo, but there we are.

The IRB should be forced to compensate Toulon.  Buying up top Internationals because they are top Internationals ain't cheap!  

As a famous Irish politician remarked on live TV when Politician salaries were queried by an audience member(paraphrase only): "I get about a net 100,000 as an EU commissioner and out of that I run a house in Dublin, in Castlebar and in Brussels.  I wanna tell you something, try it sometime when you have a couple of cars and three homes and a few housekeepers.  It's a very expensive business".

So the little people don't know the pain Toulon goes through as it runs its policy of only super-human genetically engineered International players with no realistic alternatives available to them when the Internationals are playing.............. em, International.

It's an expensive business being best and somebody has to pay the price!!!!  Namely anybody but Toulon.

justified sinner wrote:http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3551_9547663,00.html?

Toulon really are becoming a ridiculous club. Why don't the FFR/LNR step in and sort them out.

Ospreys did this to Ulster once too. Didn't like it then, don't like it now. I feel like Ospreys would play the game now because they can't afford the fine. They could then, they can't now. Toulon can pay the fine for missing this game if needs be. Probably cheaper than signing a temporary front row replacement.

Think the difference here is that Toulon actually have the players, just not the ones they want to play. Also asking, sorry demanding, all kinds of things about player insurance which is their responsibility.

Not defending the well documented Ospreys 'We don't have a front row' call off btw.

Am amazed yall take seriously what comes out from Toulon in the media. This is their way to moan / communicate : make exagerated and provocative statements on purpose to get some attentions. Ok they will have to start with one or two U21 front row and 2/3 other on the bench. Happened to Toulouse earlier in the season and nobody died. Served them well , should have gave them game time earlier in one of those pointless european game . Now they will have to fake injuries and go with uncontested scrums

justified sinner wrote:Think the difference here is that Toulon actually have the players, just not the ones they want to play. Also asking, sorry demanding, all kinds of things about player insurance which is their responsibility.

Not defending the well documented Ospreys 'We don't have a front row' call off btw.

Yeah, it's a weakness of the club system were teams are viewed as islands. I still remember Paddy Wallace going "on loan" from Ulster to Leinster because they had some injuries in their European squad and they were still in it and we weren't. He never got on the pitch, but he was registered to play for Leinster for a time while he was at Ulster. They moved to close that loophole, but thats kind of how it should be. One province helps another.

I couldn't believe Ospreys couldn't just call up Aberavon or Neath and say "any chance of a tight head for the weekend"? Or call up the U20s and say "Look, we really need our tight head back please". I mean the clubs might grumble if they were forced to provide a tight head to Ulster at short notice... but it would definitely happen. And the provinces have always taken precedence over the U20s.

I think it was one of my first insights into how terribly run Welsh rugby was. I went to see an Aberavon side lose at Ravenhill to our reserves instead that weekend and there were two props who were scrummaging perfectly safely against our professional front row. Could not believe the Ospreys couldn't just call them up. Wouldn't accept it. It just seemed too god damn stupid to be true, you know?

So did the Ospreys actually managed to forfeit?

Tigers lined up with a 18/19 year old hooker and a 21 year old tight head vs much more experienced LI front row. Described as good experience for them. There's a certain duty of care certainly but at some point you have to give a young front rower a game, not good waiting until their 25 and just expecting them to know their stuff.

whocares wrote:So did the Ospreys actually managed to forfeit?

Yes. They were fined but they won the rescheduled game when their injury crisis was resolved. I believe those fans who had bought tickets for the game were not reimbursed, but their tickets remained valid for the rescheduled fixture.

The rescheduled match was a brilliant game of rugby. Both teams wanted to make a really big point about what had happened. Think the Ulster players were especially gutted not to send the crowd home happy. Losing hurt in the circumstances; i.e. the Os had decided they weren't going to play us in the previous circumstances.

They should have to play the game, tough if they get injuries.

They should get points deducted.

hard to take it seriously. more of the toulon hot air/exaggeration than all comes down from boudjellal.

they will play. and the youngsters will be fine. not often that a front rower gets injured in scrum set pieces these days. lineouts and generally catching the ball are far far more dangerous. especially with not hit any more in the scrum

As much as I think he's an idiot but didn't the Ospreys do similar a few seasons back against one of the Irish side?

it's all above you bedford  It's all in the stars above you.

As a dragons fan who has had to witness the worst injury crisis for seasons where we are forced to play 17 year old to cover and loan 2 players from other teams on one tenth of their budget it makes me annoyed that they even think this is an option. Send your academy players like all the other teams have to when the s*$t hits the fan!

I hate Toulon!

The funny thing is that a team like Toulon - the considered Club blueprint for the future - is trying to pretend they don't have any contingencies in place for when their iconic Internationals are away.

Maybe it is true that they don't have the ship running as businessy slick as they'd initially like us to believe - but maybe this is just another stir in a pre-planned program of stirs from Professional Club rugby, moaning about the trials of having to deal with them bastarding Unions again, and International bullshyte rugby once more ruining the marketing product of CLUB!!!!!

Maybe its just the continuation of a slow-burn rehearsed vexation at all things International to keep the pressure on for even more seasonal structure change to the International game - dictated by their hearts&minds rivals, the Clubs.

The broth still bubbles.

SecretFly wrote:Maybe its just the continuation of a slow-burn rehearsed vexation at all things International to keep the pressure on for even more seasonal structure change to the International game - dictated by their hearts&minds rivals, the Clubs.

Exactly what it is.

I do hope that they do forfeit though - as it could join those other prime examples of clubs crying off important games they thought they may lose ie Wasps and Pizzagate and Ospreys and Propgate.

To be fair the Ospreys did have a decent argument, albeit a very sneaky one, their first choice props were all out, and the one's they called up got injured aswell, they were down to the semi pro 3rd choice and they argued that they could not put a semi pro prop up against an international full pro prop, they argued that it could cause serious injury, and I suppose in a position like front row there is an argument to be had, it's not like the player was going to be just running and catching and tackling, the front row is a very niche position to play, and if you are not careful serious damage can be done. But I suppose something could have been done, perhaps a short term loan or something along those lines.

What I find comical is that Laporte starts off by saying that they would forfeit out of concern for their young players safety but then goes on to state that if the LNR provide them with a signed document stating that the LNR will take full responsibility for any anything bad that might happen to the youngsters they will fulfill the fixture.

There isn't even a veil in front of this latest threat, thin or otherwise.

Looks like Toulon have set out to single-handedly try to destroy the current balance between club / international rugby.

MunsterMac wrote:What I find comical is that Laporte starts off by saying that they would forfeit out of concern for their young players safety but then goes on to state that if the LNR provide them with a signed document stating that the LNR will take full responsibility for any anything bad that might happen to the youngsters they will fulfill the fixture.

Lovely man. We're concerned about safety... being held liable for it that is.

Come on guys let's be fair to Toulon.

This might actually force Toulon to play some Frenchmen in their team - surely that's not right?

Also it's unfair to Toulon fans because they want to watch their foreign superstar signings not some random French youngsters.......

Even though I criticise Toulon, I do think Toulon do care about their fans (maybe not the rest of the rugby community but that's not their problem).

beshocked wrote:
This might actually force Toulon to play some Frenchmen in their team - surely that's not right?

Are you aware that Toulon have more internationals in the current French squad than any other club?

Chunky Norwich wrote:

beshocked wrote:
This might actually force Toulon to play some Frenchmen in their team - surely that's not right?

Are you aware that Toulon have more internationals in the current French squad than any other club?

How many of them came through their academy?

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

beshocked wrote:
This might actually force Toulon to play some Frenchmen in their team - surely that's not right?

Are you aware that Toulon have more internationals in the current French squad than any other club?

How many of them came through their academy?

No idea. Not relevant to the post.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

beshocked wrote:
This might actually force Toulon to play some Frenchmen in their team - surely that's not right?

Are you aware that Toulon have more internationals in the current French squad than any other club?

How many of them came through their academy?

ironically... 2 props (plus Toulouse lock Maestri)

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

beshocked wrote:
This might actually force Toulon to play some Frenchmen in their team - surely that's not right?

Are you aware that Toulon have more internationals in the current French squad than any other club?

How many of them came through their academy?

No idea. Not relevant to the post.

A few is the answer. (Perhaps some people will be surprised that there are any) They buy French players in too though not just players from the rest of the world.

Who knows maybe young French players will start to come through their academy in greater numbers now. Not sure they will have any path to the senior team though with yerman buying in his personal top trumps selection every year

Chunky Norwich how many of them would be in a first Toulon XV?

let's try to bring something positive to this post than the traditional anti-toulon bickering:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=mjMho7lsb2s

nice video clip.

too many whingers about Toulon. and not enough recognition that money will not buy a winning team in rugby. it needs support, heart, discipline, cohesion, talent, and the right strategy.

and Toulon also makes money. it makes profits. check out this from april 2014:

Le budget du RCT cette saison

Billetterie : 10 millions
Partenariats privés : 11,2 millions
Produits dérivés et recettes de la brasserie : 4,8 millions
Subventions publiques : 2,9 millions
Droits TV Top 14 : 1,4 millions
Droits TV H Cup : 891 000
Equipementier : 1 million
Indemnités de libération des internationaux : 180 000
Remboursement des accidents du travail (sécurité sociale plus complémentaire) : 800 000

Soit un total de 33 171 000 euros, auquel il faudra ajouter, entre 300 000 et 1 million d'euros selon les résultats du RCT dans ses deux finales.


En savoir plus sur http://www.lerugbynistere.fr/news/top-14-mourad-boudjellal-revele-dessous-finances-rct-2105141514.php#oAA7m1zxCS86m50W.99

LondonTiger wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Maybe its just the continuation of a slow-burn rehearsed vexation at all things International to keep the pressure on for even more seasonal structure change to the International game - dictated by their hearts&minds rivals, the Clubs.

Exactly what it is.

I do hope that they do forfeit though - as it could join those other prime examples of clubs crying off important games they thought they may lose ie Wasps and Pizzagate and Ospreys and Propgate.

The Wasps cry off had nowt to do with a prop shortage. Sale had driven a tractor up one side of that awful Edgeley Park pitch, which was already sodden, to cart an advertising banner to the other end of the ground.

The end result was that another downpour filled the deep tyre tracks with 3" of water. A ruck, or collapsed scrum in that could result in a drowning.

Or was that the game at Adams Park when the Wycombe groundsman forgot to turn on the undersoil heating. By the time the players and officials got to the ground it was too late to defrost the pitch.

Neither was satisfactory for players or fans.

Leinster played Wasps in a HC game in Jan 2009 with a well publicised front row crisis. Leinster fielded a front row but further injuries forced the game to go to uncontested scrums just after 20 minutes, but at least Leinster gave it a go.

D. Armitage ; Michell, Wulf, Belan, D. Smith ; (o) O'Connor, (m) Claassens ; Bruni, Masoe, Vosloo ; Williams, Suta ; Bordewie, Orioli, Fresia.

Toulon cannot really complain. 2 academy players starting of which only one forward and they still have Barcella on the bench... Most other big french teams are starting with more youngsters this weekend.

Meanwhile just heard on canal + that they signed Ma'a Nonu for next season...

That's still a pack many pro sides would kill for. If Boudjellal and Laporte tried showing some gratitude for being lucky enough to enjoy the privilege of having such great players even during international windows thy might win more friends.

Aach, that was sort of my point in posting originally. As a club Toulon will never be happy until they own the game, full stop, so they will whinge about anything that disrupts that goal. Very publicly and very loudly.

Seems Toulon lost today...bummer

ME-109 wrote:Seems Toulon lost today...bummer

Gutted to hear that

Chunky Norwich wrote:

beshocked wrote:
This might actually force Toulon to play some Frenchmen in their team - surely that's not right?

Are you aware that Toulon have more internationals in the current French squad than any other club?

they have even more in everyone else's squads

They have no one in the England, Ireland, Scotland, Italy, Australia or New Zealand squads. Some Saffas and Frenchies probably some Pumas and PI as well. Not like they are losing that many though. Looks more like injuries are combining with an awkward time in the season.

Midi Olympique reporting that Toulon have signed Nonu and Manoa, the yankee lad who plays for Northampton

ME-109 wrote:Seems Toulon lost today...bummer

And did all these young players get injured?

Sam wrote:

ME-109 wrote:Seems Toulon lost today...bummer

And did all these young players get injured?

not at all - but their young tighthead got into plenty of trouble and eventually got yellow carded after 30 minutes

Falcons last year had to play a hooker (Rob Vickers) at loosehead and this year we deployed Brookes abeit a quality 3 in the awkward role of 1 with the vastly talented but hugley inexperienced Scotty Wilson at tighthead.

It seems to me that people on these boards still take what Toulon say in the media a bit too seriously. Pretty much all rugby fans I know of here in France are reacting with "oh did Laporte say something stupid again? Plus ça change, etc."

Mad for Chelsea wrote:It seems to me that people on these boards still take what Toulon say in the media a bit too seriously. Pretty much all rugby fans I know of here in France are reacting with "oh did Laporte say something stupid again? Plus ça change, etc."

Nah, people are just jealous of Toulon's exceptional success story.

Exceptional mercenary budget.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Mad for Chelsea wrote:It seems to me that people on these boards still take what Toulon say in the media a bit too seriously. Pretty much all rugby fans I know of here in France are reacting with "oh did Laporte say something stupid again? Plus ça change, etc."

Nah, people are just jealous of pi$$ed off that Toulon's exceptional success story came from just throwing unlimited wodges of money at the team rather than developing their own players.

Yeah. I agree. People can resent "buying success" ok. Natural reaction I suppose. You can't blame Toulon for it though. How the hell else were they meant to get from ProD2 to where they are now otherwise?

They haven't bought success. They've earned it.

Chunky Norwich wrote:They haven't bought success. They've earned it.

So eh. You are saying that without buying in the likes of Umaga, Sonny Bill, Wilkinson, Bakkies, etc. etc.etc. They would have got there anyway?

Yes they had to earn it as well as buying it, but they definitely couldn't have done it without the bags of cash.

If Llanelli Scarlets bought in players of that calibre in a constant stream over the next 5 years, I'll guarantee they would put themselves in a position to "earn it" too

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:They haven't bought success. They've earned it.

So eh. You are saying that without buying in the likes of Umaga, Sonny Bill, Wilkinson, Bakkies, etc. etc.etc. They would have got there anyway?

Yes they had to earn it as well as buying it, but they definitely couldn't have done it without the bags of cash.

If Llanelli Scarlets bought in players of that calibre in a constant stream over the next 5 years, I'll guarantee they would put themselves in a position to "earn it" too

Their revenue grew because their commercial nous grew. Not because one bloke put a wad of cash infront of them 7 years ago and asked the coach who he wanted to buy. They invested in business partnerships, Tana Umaga and sponsors. It paid off.

They've just earned 34m Euros, and you think that they shouldn't go out and buy the best players in the world because it upsets you? Lol. What should they do with it? Let me guess, subsidise Irish rugby like everyone else does.

Chunky Norwich wrote:They haven't bought success. They've earned it.

They've bought it.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Their revenue grew because their commercial nous grew. Not because one bloke put a wad of cash infront of them 7 years ago and asked the coach who he wanted to buy. They invested in business partnerships, Tana Umaga and sponsors. It paid off.

They've just earned 34m Euros, and you think that they shouldn't go out and buy the best players in the world because it upsets you? Lol. What should they do with it? Let me guess, subsidise Irish rugby like everyone else does.

Correct all over.  They bought it.  Funny how you like Toulon winning but don't seem to have been able to suffer Irish Provinces doing so   We didn't earn it - we had it dropped into our poor box by our betters

back to Toulon though.  The subject matter.