Toulon at it again

First topic message reminder :

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3551_9547663,00.html?

Toulon really are becoming a ridiculous club. Why don't the FFR/LNR step in and sort them out.

SecretFly wrote:Funny how you like Toulon winning but don't seem to have been able to suffer Irish Provinces doing so   We didn't earn it - we had it dropped into our poor box by our betters

back to Toulon though.  The subject matter.

Funny how you assume I like Toulon winning. I wnated them to win the H Cup but have no desire to see them win more than any other French team. Infact I much prefer Clermont.

Bought it? Earned it?

Doesn't matter, either way the whining from Bernard Laprick is pathetic.

SecretFly wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Their revenue grew because their commercial nous grew. Not because one bloke put a wad of cash infront of them 7 years ago and asked the coach who he wanted to buy. They invested in business partnerships, Tana Umaga and sponsors. It paid off.

They've just earned 34m Euros, and you think that they shouldn't go out and buy the best players in the world because it upsets you? Lol. What should they do with it? Let me guess, subsidise Irish rugby like everyone else does.

Correct all over.  They bought it.  Funny how you like Toulon winning but don't seem to have been able to suffer Irish Provinces doing so   We didn't earn it - we had it dropped into our poor box by our betters

back to Toulon though.  The subject matter.

Having HC rugby handed to you year on year on a platter also helped the Irish provinces get where they are - gave you more revenue every year and experience in top tier rugby. It's obvious - if you take part in a competition more times you've got more opportunities to win that competition.

You had your own advantages just as Toulon currently have theirs.

Anyway Toulon have lost their secret weapon, Alain Rolland as he has retired.... he has led them to victory in two HC finals and I think every match that he has reffed Toulon.

Puts the rest of us on a more level playing field with Toulon now. You might say - oh beshocked you're being silly again.... well when Alain Rolland refs Toulon they do win - make of it what you want......

beshocked wrote:Having HC rugby handed to you year on year on a platter also helped the Irish provinces get where they are  - gave you more revenue every year and experience in top tier rugby. It's obvious - if you take part in a competition more times you've got more opportunities to win that competition.

I think the other teams involved might take a bit of offense at that, especially Leicester and Northampton.

You had your own advantages just as Toulon currently have theirs.

Anyway Toulon have lost their secret weapon, Alain Rolland as he has retired.... he has led them to victory in two HC finals and I think every match that he has reffed Toulon.

Puts the rest of us on a more level playing field with Toulon now. You might say - oh beshocked you're being silly again.... well when Alain Rolland refs Toulon they do win - make of it what you want......

All the teams that have won the HEC have got a decent salary budget, I wouldn't be surprised if Wasps was the lowest when they did. But there is a difference between using your money to keep the players yo developed and bringing in a few experienced externals...and bringing 95% of your team.

Take offence to what exactly?

I agree it's tougher to bring 95% of your team but that's their choice.

beshocked wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Their revenue grew because their commercial nous grew. Not because one bloke put a wad of cash infront of them 7 years ago and asked the coach who he wanted to buy. They invested in business partnerships, Tana Umaga and sponsors. It paid off.

They've just earned 34m Euros, and you think that they shouldn't go out and buy the best players in the world because it upsets you? Lol. What should they do with it? Let me guess, subsidise Irish rugby like everyone else does.

Correct all over.  They bought it.  Funny how you like Toulon winning but don't seem to have been able to suffer Irish Provinces doing so   We didn't earn it - we had it dropped into our poor box by our betters

back to Toulon though.  The subject matter.

Having HC rugby handed to you year on year on a platter also helped the Irish provinces get where they are.

Anything Irish Provinces won at HEC were won playing rugby on a field and winning more games than they lost, especially the final, which comes in handy if you want to win things.  
And don't discount them winning again even now that the rules tries to downgrade their presence.  How will the theorists explain that one if it happens a few times in the next few seasons?
So no...it wasn't handed to us.  Wasn't handed to Toulon either - they are buying it.  Different thing.  Hoovering up best players throughout the world and playing a winning brand of rugby with them.  It's not rocket science.  Other teams who can afford to mimic the model will in time mimic it - and there goes your idea of meritocracy, as the law of averages says not all team will ever be able to have limitless salary accounts................. but some flush few will.

secretfly I was referring to Ulster,Leinster and Munster's effective auto qualification for the HC every year - I never said that the Irish teams were handed the HC trophy - I meant your place in the HC every year was basically guaranteed.

Hammerofthunor mentions Saints, Saints haven't been in the HC every year. They've even been relegated not too long ago.

Two English HC semi finalists in 2007-8 did not qualify for the HC the season because qualification in the AP was not handed on a plate. There's also the danger of relegation.

beshocked wrote:Take offence to what exactly?

I agree it's tougher to bring 95% of your team but that's their choice.

regarding the offence bit...I misread your cmment. I thought you had said handed the HEC CUP on a plate, which would suggest that the other teams weren't really trying...hence the Tigers and Saints comment as they both lost finals to the Irish. My mistake, I apologise.

As for the 95% thing...you really think it's harder to simply scout out season professionals that have excelled on the international scene than it is to grow your own? If not I apologise again, if you are then that is crazy. If you grow your own, not only do you have to sift through loads of young lads, most of which will never make it, to find the good ones, teach them the skills they need, nuture their growing bodies in way they'll last, take risks with injured players, etc, etc. I would say that is certainly harder than flicking through a catologue of players and picking the ones you want. It's not as simple as just buying players and they make a good team as Toulon found out and Metro are finding out, but it's certainly easier, if you've got the money, than building a team from guys from the academy.

I know only 3 of the starting Saracens team (another 2 on the bench) in last years final were from the academy (I'm counting Mako even though he was poached from Bristol) so you might be a bit biased