Should Priestland retire?

by The Saint Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:04 pm

First topic message reminder :

Well if you know me, you'd know I've never joined in with the unacceptable levels of criticism at Rhys Priestland and I won't start now. What I will say is that I think he should retire, at least from international rugby. He isn't up to this level and he's proved it for two seasons or more. His game today against a weaker opposition (who played 40 minutes with 14 men) was the worst fly-half performance I've seen. Mike Phillips was poor too, he is usually good off the bench these days but today's game casts doubt in my mind.
Back to RP; he constantly loses the ball in contact, he's a poor goal kicker, he sometimes let's the ball just slip from out of his hands (he's a fly half remember), he's unreliable when the pressure is on, his game management is poor. His form has been average this season and from what I seen it was nowhere near enough to merit a call into the Wales squad. We have two other 10s who are getting overlooked for two poor ones. Rhys Patchell and Owen Williams should be in this squad so close to the RWC. RP and Hook should not.

by The Bachelor Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:23 pm

Allty wrote:I can't remember any 10 that has thrived with Phillips his step stutter pass has ruined reputation after reputation.

Priestland looked really good at the RWC; standing flat and demanding the ball. It's a shame that seems to be the exception rather than the norm, although I don't think he was any worse than others at the weekend.

by Comfort Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:31 pm

No, and lets not be silly.

Priestland was poor in general this weekend, but so were the rest of the team.

The forwards lacked any potency ball in hand from 30 minutes onwards. The breakdown was a mess, the service from Phillips would have but Jiffy himself under pressure half the time. Not to mention the pedestrian speed and lines the backs were taking for the majority of the time. Even when they did show any urgency they lost the ball in contact. When all of this is going on around you, it requires a mentally strong general to take the game by the scruff of the neck, I think we all agree that general isnt Priestland, and never has been.

What Priestland is, is a flyhalf who plays flat and has a nice range of passing, who allso possesses a kicking game that can range from burning hot to frozen cold. He is a cog in a machine, not the operator of the machine, thats his problem at 10 for me, and why I prefer Biggar to anyone else we have there currently.

Oh, and I am going to bring up the 2 disallowed tries, that was a penalty try if LYdiate was held up as the Fijian defnder clearly came in from the side. And there was no way in hell that tackle on Liam Williams was compelte.

Anyway, I digress, it says it all that afterthe last 30minutes of rugby with Fiji down to 14men, the score read 0 - 7.

We're clearly not taking penatly kicks as part of some greater good, and we havent looked as predictable going forward (when we havent looked like a bunch of plebs anyway).

by offload Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:32 pm

Not a fan of RP but wrong to single him out. He is a player not at his best with limitations, but certainly trying his best. Frankly I haven't seen him really play well since early in the last WC.

In general, we are not good in Wales at seeing our limitations and tend to big ourselves up a bit. It's quite a while since we really performed. We were poor in last years AI's and there was little to celebrate in the 6N's either. We have some very good players and a few that are still developing and others that have served well but past their best. We certainly don't have a deep pool of talent.

It may not be a popular view but I think Gatland has done all he can for Wales and we need fresh thinking. He's not getting the best from the players we have. It's time to move on. Every coach runs out of steam with a team and I think that's what's happened with Gatland.

by Knowsit17 Mon Nov 17, 2014 6:08 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Knowsit17 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Knowsit17 wrote: Many of the boo-boys, I suspect, wouldn't have been booing the man so much as the decision to have him there.

So Boo Gatland.

You're right in everything you say about a player not being responsible for being on a team and with rights to play on a team if picked, as any player would.

But the Boo boys probably want everything their own way. Boo the player and hope the Coach is listening. I say that's being two faced and hedging bets on the idea that Gatland is still doing things right but just needs a hint on a certain few players.

No, if Priestland is wrong in the eyes of the boo boys then the boo boys should have the courage to hint in the right direction and boo their coach. Any of them have wind enough to do that?

That's the problem Fly. Picture yourself in the MS, watching Priestland throw Nadolo an intercept and the latter scampering 70m up field. What's your first inclination? To search the stands for the coaching staff so as to direct your discontent onto them? Coordinate a fans' protest, complete with banners saying "Pick on form" then and there? No. If you're the average fan sitting in a stadium and someone effs up or someone comes on who's known to eff up, the immediate inclination is to boo that person. I'm not saying I do but as someone who has experienced their share of frustration, I would chance that I have an idea what goes through people's heads when they do.

Yes. But it's also much easier in a crowd of Welsh fans (many of them one day International trippers - pink hats, if you will) to choose a single player to isolate than to choose to boo a coach everytime a camera falls on him in his bunker. It's easier because it's considered the norm that a player doing silly things might get a boo...it's part of the theatre that even the casual fans understand and appreciate. It might even be part of the fun for those casual uninformed fans - to do the pantomime boos, and many of them might not even know why they're exactly joining along.

But it would be more difficult to sit in a crowd of Only International rugby fans and engage in a more focused knowledgeable booing episode directed at a man sitting in a crow's nest somewhere in the stadium. He's obviously not part of the action and some uninformed fans might see the booing of him that as mean spirited act directed at a guy not actively involved in the game...and who has given them much joy during his term. So it's riskier to boo him as the booer might be told to shut the hell up by some pink hats!

But the coach is the guy choosing the players. That's the guy overseeing the gameplans. That's the guy being paid very well to give fans a happy day out rather than a maddening one. He's the guy responsible for the poor player being on the field, making his mistakes.

What I'm saying is that the fans who booed Priestland aren't doing the maths. They still want to believe that Gatland is the right man and so therefore don't want to offend him, but have no faith in the player or players or gameplans that Gatland picks.
Don't blame the poor player - blame the coach. I'd say boo nobody ideally, but if booing is to be done, I want to see booing fans have the courage to boo the guy who pops up on camera every so often. That's a protest. That's placing blame where blame belongs.

I don't disagree. It would be ignorant to deny that many fans at these games are superficial, one-day attenders, not all of whom do the 'spirit' of the game any justice. Nor am I saying everyone who booed did so for the same reasons. If anything, motives for mass booing can be far more ambiguous today than they used to be. I'm just trying to emphasise the distinction between the superficial elements and those who might have booed out of protest from seeing an inept player picked constantly. For better or worse, some of that frustration gets directed at the player... that's an unfortunate fact imo. That's why I lose patience nowadays with coaches or other officials who condemn booing in and of itself without even considering the complex causes behind it, some of which might as well be down to them. In this regard, I find Gatland's criticism of the boo-boys particularly rich given that his constant misguided selection of Priestland has given them nothing but ammunition in that regard.

I get what you mean about the 'offending the coach' bit. I am eternally grateful to Gats for the successes he has helped Wales deliver during his tenure, which are considerable given the lows Wales were at prior to his arrival. However, I no longer see this success as making him immune to criticism. No coach, no matter how good, should be allowed to go unquestioned on any and all decisions. Some of the best coaches habitually make horrendous calls which barely anyone else can grasp and Gats' no exception. I've long been holding him accountable for poor selections or strategies, especially when they come back to haunt us and especially when he seemingly fails to take any lessons away from the experience.

by glamorganalun Mon Nov 17, 2014 6:38 pm

Very well put, spot on.

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