Brown and Barclay - time to find out the truth

by **RDW** Tue 20 Jan 2015, 12:54 pm

Please sign the petition!

http://www.petitionbuzz.com/petitions/brownandbarclay

twitter.com/v2rugby/status/557529658967998464?s=09

Key points:

- Brown and Barclay have been left out of a number of squads now, even though they are playing top level rugby and have vast experience.
- Brown in particular is a regular starter - and often captain - of one of the strongest packs in Europe. Surely that is good enough for Scotland.
- With no disrespect to the players picked ahead of them, Strokosh is playing 2nd division rugby, and Blake has only arrived in the country having not played at all for Edinburgh. How can they be judged to be better options?
- Rumours coming from several sources that Scott Johnson is the reason they aren't getting picked, as he had a falling out with both of them. it is understood he has told Barclay he will never play again for Scotland while he is involved. Quite frankly, I'd rather those two than Scott Johnson!

Key points of the campaign:

- We want to know the truth why two of Scotland's most talented players - and firm fan favourites - are being overlooked consistently. If it is because of a falling out with Scott Johnson, we want to know why he thinks he has the right to deny proud Scotsmen the chance to play for their country.

Important note

We are passionate Scotland rugby fans who fully support the team, players, and Vern Cotter. We are however incredibly frustrated that we continue to be fed non-commital answers as to why these two players are overlooked.

We are not demanding their immediate selection, we just want to know the truth.

by TheMildlyFranticLlama Tue 20 Jan 2015, 12:59 pm

Absolutely with you in that I would love an official answer about what is going on.

If the simple truth is that it is a personality clash with SJ then it is a disgrace and he should have the decency to stop holding scotland back through his own incompetence

by reallybored Tue 20 Jan 2015, 1:01 pm

I heard a rumour about Brown and Johnson coming to blows.

Seriously, this is a joke. If that's the reason that they aren't in the squad I say we make sure Scott Johnson is out of his job before the France match.

A boycott of the matches? Wonder how long he'd last if Murrayfield was half empty against Wales.

by cakeordeath Tue 20 Jan 2015, 1:05 pm

I am not sure about Barclay, but it was obvious that Brown and Johnson had a falling out, so Brown's continuing absence from the squad reeks of SJ sticking his nose in. Which is disappointing as I would hope that Vern would be his own man.

by teh_Dingmeister Tue 20 Jan 2015, 1:07 pm

Any means of finding an answer would be great. I really wish Scott Johnson had never tainted the doors of Scottish rugby. There's no way that this could be justified on a lack of form or experience. Both are playing at the highest level of European rugby.

Blake walking into the squad just doesn't make any sense having not even played many games in the Pro 12. Sounds like the Matt Williams era all over again.

by **RDW** Tue 20 Jan 2015, 1:14 pm

Right how about this. I use V2 as the forum to launch the petition - tweet using V2 Twitter page directing people to this thread where the link to the petition will be at the top of the page.

Sound good?

by MacKnocked-on Tue 20 Jan 2015, 1:19 pm

When Glasgow played the Scarlets recently the BBC Alba commentator did seem to allude to some bad blood between Barclay and the Glasgow players, could he perhaps be seen as a difficult character by the coaches and disruptive?

by tigertattie Tue 20 Jan 2015, 1:19 pm

Speak to the "change for scottish rugby" guys on Facebook. They've got plenty followers and have held meetings with the sru.

I'd also chuck an invite to the bbc and stv

by Majestic83 Tue 20 Jan 2015, 1:24 pm

I'm with you on this, absolute disgrace these 2 haven't been selected and Over the hill Strokosh is and Hugh who, both get call ups. Hugh(who)Blake hasn't played any top level rugby. played itm cup but no game time at Super rugby. Played half a game for Edinburgh A and gets called up, total rubbish.

by Majestic83 Tue 20 Jan 2015, 1:25 pm

Ps just tweeted @scotlandteam saying it would be nice if Vern Cotter explained his decisions why Brown, Barclay and even Hogg haven't been included.

by **George Carlin** Tue 20 Jan 2015, 1:26 pm

Non-Scotland fans may wonder what the strength of reaction on this thread is about.

Fundementally, we thought that the days of reasonable coaching but very poor selection was behind us. It does seem mighty odd to ignore two very experienced loose forwards who are playing well for their clubs at the moment. It is hard to ignore the inference that the ommission is due to poor personal relationships with these two players and influential people at the SRU. Who may or may not have a mullet and enjoy figures of speech involving bikinis.

Choosing a 22 year old who has not played a game for his professional side in the NH and a veteran whose team does not compete in the first division of its domestic leagues was always going to be contentious and will be the subject of every press conference Vern gives from now until the end of the tournament. But Cotter will know this.

by Dorothy_Mantooth Tue 20 Jan 2015, 1:27 pm

Certainly both are clearly not left out of the squad on simply Rugby grounds, so I do agree that the fans deserve an answer.

by **RDW** Tue 20 Jan 2015, 1:27 pm

Tweet sent - please share as much as possible

twitter.com/v2rugby/status/557529658967998464?s=09

by JonnyEdinburgh Tue 20 Jan 2015, 1:38 pm

Proud to be the first to sign. Really hope we get something in-depth back here.

If there has been a falling out, they can tell us the details of what it is all about and let us decide if these guys should be cast off.

If it's a tactical thing they can fully explain what are the key flaws that the regular starter and some-time captain of arguably the best side in England has in his game, that those who are in the squad don't have.

If it's all about building for the future then they can make an official statement that all home games this year will be half price as it is purely a "developmental" year. I call bull on that anyway. The "future" is France on 7th Feb, followed by the rest of the 6 nations and world cup this year. We have enough youngsters in the squad to give a good grounding for the next world cup cycle but for now we need our best form players in the squad alongside them.

by EWT Spoons Tue 20 Jan 2015, 1:39 pm

Majestic83 wrote:Ps just tweeted @scotlandteam saying it would be nice if Vern Cotter explained his decisions why Brown, Barclay and even Hogg haven't been included.

Same

by EWT Spoons Tue 20 Jan 2015, 1:42 pm

Petition is blocked by my work's firewall. Will sign later

by tigertattie Tue 20 Jan 2015, 2:24 pm

Some fine Scottish names in the list of signatures!

I wonder if two names will appear as signatures - Kelly Brown and John Barclay?

Fair play to Brown and Barclay for keeping shtoom. We're outraged as fans over this, imagine how those two guys are feeling!!!

by funnyExiledScot Tue 20 Jan 2015, 2:55 pm

Total shambles of a squad, and I completely agree that the fans and supporters of Scottish rugby are owed an explanation. The selections of Strokosch and Blake are ridiculous and impossible to justify.

by highland_scot Tue 20 Jan 2015, 3:06 pm

Yeah, noticed Barclay has also removed his tweet from last night.

by offload Tue 20 Jan 2015, 3:11 pm

teh_Dingmeister wrote: I really wish Scott Johnson had never tainted the doors of Scottish rugby.

When SJ was appointed I felt sorry for my Scottish mates. I can't see one positive thing from his time in Wales and knew it would be the same in in Scotland. He leaves a trail of under achievement and ambiguity. I thought with Cotter's appointment the SJ period would be a thing of the past, but apparently not ?

by RuggerRadge2611 Tue 20 Jan 2015, 3:40 pm

Signed the petition, my dad has signed it too.

by **RDW** Tue 20 Jan 2015, 3:42 pm

Thanks everyone - I'm not sure where this will lead to, but I'm hopefully helping everyone express their frustrations and bemusement in some way.

The social media coverage is probably more important than the total number, so keep sharing in Twitter

My latest tweet from the v2 account is a good one to get 're tweeting to show them our support.

by RuggerRadge2611 Tue 20 Jan 2015, 3:49 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Thanks everyone - I'm not sure where this will lead to, but I'm hopefully helping everyone express their frustrations and bemusement in some way.

The social media coverage is probably more important than the total number, so keep sharing in Twitter

My latest tweet from the v2 account is a good one to get 're tweeting to show them our support.

#lackingclue ?

by tigertattie Tue 20 Jan 2015, 3:59 pm

#lackingclue all the way!

How many times will we see a false dawn with Scottish Rugby???

I really felt that Cotter coming in would be the start of a turning tide but this shambles makes Cotter look like Scott Johnson's lacky

by RuggerRadge2611 Tue 20 Jan 2015, 4:02 pm

tigertattie wrote:#lackingclue all the way!

How many times will we see a false dawn with Scottish Rugby???

I really felt that Cotter coming in would be the start of a turning tide but this shambles makes Cotter look like Scott Johnson's lacky

I think that is a little harsh, Had Barclay and Brown been included instead of Strok and Blake we would all be much happier.

I have signed the petition but we should be weary about turning this into an episode like our cousins from across the sea Leprechaun

by tigertattie Tue 20 Jan 2015, 4:09 pm

Thats my point!

I can only see this as being one of two things

1. Cotter is as useful a selector as Nicola Sturgeon is at stacking the top shelf in tesco meaning we're in for another bumpy ride

or

2. Cotter is not his own man and has SJ in his ear meaning SJ is pulling the strings and Cotter is just a front

by RuggerRadge2611 Tue 20 Jan 2015, 4:11 pm

tigertattie wrote:Thats my point!

I can only see this as being one of two things

1. Cotter is as useful a selector as Nicola Sturgeon is at stacking the top shelf in tesco meaning we're in for another bumpy ride

or

2. Cotter is not his own man and has SJ in his ear meaning SJ is pulling the strings and Cotter is just a front

Or the fabled number

3. Cotter thinks that Blake and Strokosch are better?

by IanBru Tue 20 Jan 2015, 4:21 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
tigertattie wrote:#lackingclue all the way!

How many times will we see a false dawn with Scottish Rugby???

I really felt that Cotter coming in would be the start of a turning tide but this shambles makes Cotter look like Scott Johnson's lacky

I think that is a little harsh, Had Barclay and Brown been included instead of Strok and Blake we would all be much happier.

I have signed the petition but we should be weary about turning this into an episode like our cousins from across the sea

Absolutely agree.

I've signed, because I'd like an explanation over why a former captain and one of our best players has been excluded. Similarly, I want to know why a player who many touted as a future captain has been excluded. I want openness.

I'm not demanding that certain players be included in the squad as, amazingly, I'm not the coach.

by townsendistarantino Tue 20 Jan 2015, 4:24 pm

I don't post on here often (usually just to vent about Jonathan Davies "expert" commentary "run it on") but I would like to hear an actual reason for the exclusion of these two. I have to say the inclusion of Blake took me right back when "chainsaw" picard

appeared on the scene...

It just seems weird and decidedly fishy. So I've chucked my name on that petition.

by **RDW** Tue 20 Jan 2015, 4:31 pm

I agree that we've got to be reasonable here.

All this petition about is raising publicity to that fact that Scotland fans are sick of the bull crap being sprouted about why they aren't getting picked.

We're not demanding their immediate selection, we're not saying we're doomed because they haven't been picked.

by IanBru Tue 20 Jan 2015, 4:32 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:I agree that we've got to be reasonable here.

All this petition about is raising publicity to that fact that Scotland fans are sick of the bull crap being sprouted about why they aren't getting picked.

We're not demanding their immediate selection, we're not saying we're doomed because they haven't been picked.

Well said, bud.

by **RDW** Tue 20 Jan 2015, 4:42 pm

Well unsurprisingly the official SRU interview with VC makes absolutely no mention of Barclay and Brown.

Rob Robertson (daily mail) tweeted saying the first question journos asked was 'so, tell is about Hugh Blake'

by **RDW** Tue 20 Jan 2015, 5:26 pm

The more I read from journalists the more peed off I'm getting about this - apparently Cotter says he picked Blake because he feels 'bereft of quality' at 7, but when questioned on why he's therefore left out Barclay and Grant over Blake he Saud 'instinct'.

I mean come on! mad

by **Notch** Tue 20 Jan 2015, 5:52 pm

If I'm being honest with you I think that Blake is only picked to bind him to Scotland quickly and if he doesn't make an impression Barclay will be rapidly recalled and Blake will be trapped forever with his one Scotland cap. Hence the bullshoite about it in press conferences, they don't want to say that in so many words. But Blake is an unknown quantity and if he feels he has potential then so it goes. Looks more like Scotland are using the 6N as a warm-up for the RWC and he's exploring some options.

Strokosch over Brown is the puzzler, and a real happy one for your opponents too.

by **BigGee** Tue 20 Jan 2015, 5:53 pm

highland_scot wrote:Yeah, noticed Barclay has also removed his tweet from last night.

The fact that he made it in the first place may tell us more about John Barclay than some posters on here may may wish to hear. I used to follow him on twitter, but there was always something about the tone of his tweets that I found a bit odd, occasionaly boardering on offensive, to the point where I stopped following him and I follow most Scottish rugby players.

It also seems a little odd that he not only supposedly feel out with SJ but with Toonie as well, who seemed to have no qualms about off loading him from Glasgow. As a player he always was a bit of an enigma to me, burst onto the scene very young, but then never really became the true world class player he could have been. He was well eclipsed by Ross Rennie and for a time by Fusaro at glasgow, who is in no way an international player in my opinion. I am sure there is a story here, but not sure we will ever know what it is. I don't beleive for a minute that Cotter is not his own man. Just look at him, he does not look as if he is scared of anyone and it has to be said that the attitude in the Scottish camp was so much better in the AI's without B&B than it had been for ages before with them in the squad.

I do find the omission of KB more odd than that of Barclay. He gives the impression of being a team man through and through and does not know what prima donna even means. Stroks is a good solid citizen and will give it his all, but is in no way the answer or the future. The shirt is currently Harley's if he was fit, but may not be for the first game, though the fact that he is in the squad suggests that may actually be a possibility. maybe he has just been picked to keep the jersey warm for JS this summer, maybe he just thinks that he is to old or just does not have the right skill set, but it is hard to see Stroks ticking those boxe either. I certainly can't see him being branded a bad influcence. Maybe he is just to symbolic of the time when the Scottish team were really rubbish. Lets not forget that we played pretty well in the autunm without them.

by **RDW** Tue 20 Jan 2015, 6:00 pm

“It’s always difficult for the older players. When we look at the profile and the game we want to play, some of these younger players are offering us more.

“Things aren’t finished for any of those players but we’re looking at a profile that suits where we want to go and the game we want to play.

“We’ve spoken with Kelly and explained our thinking. Things change and evolve – the game is changing all the time. We’re looking for players who perhaps bring something a little bit different.

“Kelly is a great supporter of Scottish rugby and a great man. We spoke about a number of things before we spoke about the situation for him here. He is very supportive and he understands.”

I'm not sure how strokosh fits the mould of the modern kind of player he's looking for, but never mind.

by **BigGee** Tue 20 Jan 2015, 6:11 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
“It’s always difficult for the older players. When we look at the profile and the game we want to play, some of these younger players are offering us more.

“Things aren’t finished for any of those players but we’re looking at a profile that suits where we want to go and the game we want to play.

“We’ve spoken with Kelly and explained our thinking. Things change and evolve – the game is changing all the time. We’re looking for players who perhaps bring something a little bit different.

“Kelly is a great supporter of Scottish rugby and a great man. We spoke about a number of things before we spoke about the situation for him here. He is very supportive and he understands.”

I'm not sure how strokosh fits the mould of the modern kind of player he's looking for, but never mind.

As I said before, i am not sure that we should be looking at Barclay and Brown as an item, it does seem that there are different rules for the two of them. I am glad that they at least spoke to KB, not that it will probably make him feel any better. It was the decent thing tpo do though.

by funnyExiledScot Tue 20 Jan 2015, 9:29 pm

What did Barclay say in his tweet?

by **RDW** Tue 20 Jan 2015, 9:30 pm

Barclay wrote:Didn't see that coming

by funnyExiledScot Tue 20 Jan 2015, 9:36 pm

Ah, well not hugely diplomatic but I do see it from his point of view. Chances to win international caps and play in World Cups don't come around that often. He'll be 32 at the next World Cup so may feel it's his last shot. I can understand his frustration to lose out to Blake.

by **RDW** Tue 20 Jan 2015, 9:43 pm

Bit of a kick in the nuts for him too when Cotter says he called up Blake due to being 'bereft of depth of quality at 7'.

by funnyExiledScot Tue 20 Jan 2015, 9:49 pm

Agree, the whole thing has been handled poorly. Same goes with Roddy Grant. Deserves to be ahead of Blake.

Respect for Cotter is hugely diminished here. Players need to earn that blue jersey.

by **RDW** Tue 20 Jan 2015, 10:06 pm

Cotter is just making things up about Blake too:

He was involved in Super Rugby and played the final

Both of those statements of fact are wrong.

I really wish him all the best and I hope he becomes a real asset for Scotland, and none of this is his fault, but this has been handled very, very badly.

by **BigGee** Tue 20 Jan 2015, 10:15 pm

Cotter I guess feels the job he is paid to do is to put the best Scotland team he can out on the pitch, he is not going to be sentimental about it. I think that Roddy Grant is a good club player and has been a great servant to Edinburgh, but I imagine if he was going to be an international quality player we would have seen it by now.

I am happy with a coach like Cotter, he is a true professional who will tell it how it is. The players seem to have responded to him and we look like a team again. I am not expecting any humiliations this year, even if I am realistic about how hard it is going to be to win games.

At the end of the day it will be performance and results that gain respect for Cotter. If we have a decent 6N, in the same way we had a decent AI. All these selections will be considered inspired and the controversy quickly left behind. That is the nature of professional sport. What we all want to see is a successful Scottish team and we were pretty much all agreed that Cotter was the best available coach to give us that chance.

by funnyExiledScot Tue 20 Jan 2015, 10:38 pm

BigGee, I love the positivity but I now doubt whether Cotter is indeed the best man for the job. Good judgement has frankly deserted him for what is only his second squad selection, and he has failed to articulate any credible justification for some staggeringly controversial picks. Robinson was and is a good coach, but lacked clarity and focus on team selection, frequently getting it wrong. This is just wrong from Cotter, and even if Blake takes to international rugby like a duck to water, I'll still see this as an error.

by **BigGee** Tue 20 Jan 2015, 10:47 pm

I'm sorry, he was the best man for the job and he has made a pretty good start to it. One left field selection in his squad is not going to change that, everyone is entitled to pick a bolter and there is no guarantee that he will even get capped.

Have we had any Scottish squad recently where pretty much everyone has agreed about all bar two of the picks. Its a pretty settled squad now with the basis of a decent team in it. To call it a lack of judgement is stretching it more than a little bit.

by funnyExiledScot Tue 20 Jan 2015, 10:55 pm

You'll never get unanimity on squad selection, I accept that. But whilst Cusiter missing out for Hidalgo-Clyne can come down to judgement, I don't think Blake vs Barclay can possibly be considered in the same boat.

Still, you're right to point out that we're not talking about the whole squad being duff, there are some pleasing calls, Toolis in particular for me.

I just hope Cowan stays fit and Harley can face France.

by des Sat 24 Jan 2015, 9:50 pm

So I heard from a reputable source at Friday night's game that Brown took a swipe at Johnson. Sounded like it happened at half time in the Ireland game at the start of last years six nations.

Not sure what I make of it but these kind of interpersonal issues seem to follow Johnson around like a bad mullet.

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