Kingspan Stadium to Host Pro12 Final

First topic message reminder :

New development for the League,


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/30980843

Final is going to be annoced in advance from now on,

TBH I don't like this idea at all.

All the hosts of the final so far have been able to sell it out before hand, it rewards the team that finishes higher in the league, and what happens is say the final is Ospreys V Glasgow are all these fans expected to travel to Belfast?

Better have the higher team in the League host it, other wise I can see the final being mostly played out in with mostly neutral crowds.

Sin é wrote:Since it is basically Sponsor's Day, I'd imagine playing the final in a stadium called BT Sport might not go down too well with the PRO12s media partners or an empty Murrayfield too appealing to Guinness.

So you agree then, it's all a farce to keep the sponsors of the big Irish company that is sponsering our league happy ?

LordDowlais wrote:

Sin é wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Kingshu wrote:National stadiums are too big for the final currently, it can't be half empty, think everyone knows this.

If that is the case, then why is the Scotland national stadium being used as the option for Scottish sides to hold the final ?

Scottish Rugby take the hit on the gates. The final gate goes to the organisers of the competition and helps pay prize money etc. to all the participants. Far more costly to hire a 60K+ stadium than an 18K stadium. In both cases, you need to be able to fill them.

yeah and Ulster will fill their stadium with out even being in the final wont they.

The Pro12 must be praying for an upturn in Ulsters fortunes this season, and then hope another Irish province gets to the final as well, because if it is Ospreys V Glasgow, the Irish had better put their hands in their pockets because you will not get much travelling fans there.

Its about as easy to get from Glasgow to Belfast as it is to get from Limerick to Belfast. Thousands of football supporters manage to go to soccer matches every week in Scotland and England from Ireland. Surely you can manage to do it for 1 week. Its not as if you spend a lot of money travelling to the knockout stages of the Heineken Cup.

Notch wrote:The final isn't on the 16th its on the 30th May. Semi-finals are on the weekend of the 22nd/23rd/24th May.

I have to revise my initial opinion tbh. I thought it was unfair at first but now I realise that the change in the calendar has made it necessary. Kingshu is right- five working days isn't enough for a whole final to be organised. Two weeks was difficult enough. The venue must be known beforehand.

This will eventually lead to being able to use bigger stadia so its a good thing. Just poorly announced. The teams must have known from a very early stage about this- but the fans should have known at the start of the season which is when the decision to open it up would have been made.

So, I think we can all agree, it's the blydi French's fault for bringing the Heineken No Sponsors Cup Final forward - yes ?

LordDowlais wrote:

Sin é wrote:Since it is basically Sponsor's Day, I'd imagine playing the final in a stadium called BT Sport might not go down too well with the PRO12s media partners or an empty Murrayfield too appealing to Guinness.

So you agree then, it's all a farce to keep the sponsors of the big Irish British company that is sponsering our league happy ?

Fixed that for you.

Sin é wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Sin é wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Kingshu wrote:National stadiums are too big for the final currently, it can't be half empty, think everyone knows this.

If that is the case, then why is the Scotland national stadium being used as the option for Scottish sides to hold the final ?

Scottish Rugby take the hit on the gates. The final gate goes to the organisers of the competition and helps pay prize money etc. to all the participants. Far more costly to hire a 60K+ stadium than an 18K stadium. In both cases, you need to be able to fill them.

yeah and Ulster will fill their stadium with out even being in the final wont they.

The Pro12 must be praying for an upturn in Ulsters fortunes this season, and then hope another Irish province gets to the final as well, because if it is Ospreys V Glasgow, the Irish had better put their hands in their pockets because you will not get much travelling fans there.

Its about as easy to get from Glasgow to Belfast as it is to get from Limerick to Belfast. Thousands of football supporters manage to go to soccer matches every week in Scotland and England from Ireland. Surely you can manage to do it for 1 week. Its not as if you spend a lot of money travelling to the knockout stages of the Heineken Cup.

If you think that an army of Glasgow fans are going to invade Belfast to watch Glasgow play against anybody I think you might need to re-think your argument. Unless there is an Irish team in the final it will be half full at best.

Sorry I mixed up dates.

Liberty stadium is free,
But as mentioned before, would the Liberaty be sold out if Ospreys didn't make it? Say Muster V Glasgow final? Bit risky as few years ago when Ospreys hosted a semi final against Munster they only attracted 10,026, would you be confident that it would sell out for a final, with or without Ospreys in it?

Think this year they have gone for the safest bet.

5 working days was never enough to arrange the Final. If we had payed attention we would have seen this coming, the unions all know about it and hence when they arranged the bids. (Don't think it would have been fair to insist it be outside Ireland because they have won the right to host all the previous ones, why should success become a handicap? If anything to exclude an Irish bid would be unfair, Wales/scotland/Italy all had the same chances to host the previous finals and all bids should be considered equally).

The only thing thats wrong with this is that they are suddenly springing it on us now. If they said at the start of the year that its one week between semi final and final, so we will be accepting bids for host stadium to be released later this year then we would have been fine. Seams the Unions the Provinces the Regions and city teams all know this but none of them passed that information onto thier fans - thats the bit that is poorly done.

As mentioned think this year they have gone for a safe bet as they know it wouldn't be arranged early.

Hopefully in future they can arrange it at the start of the season so we all know where we stand, would like to see them taking a risk with a final in Italy, it would be good to have a big Club Final there, but doubt it will be untill Wales and Scotalnd have hosted it and it becomes a bigger event that would hence be easier to sell in Italy and has more chance of success.

Pot Hale wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Sin é wrote:Since it is basically Sponsor's Day, I'd imagine playing the final in a stadium called BT Sport might not go down too well with the PRO12s media partners or an empty Murrayfield too appealing to Guinness.

So you agree then, it's all a farce to keep the sponsors of the big Irish British company that is sponsering our league happy ?

Fixed that for you.

Guiness is Irish aint it ?

Sin é wrote:Surely you can manage to do it for 1 week. Its not as if you spend a lot of money travelling to the knockout stages of the Heineken Cup.

I think the final venue should be decided from the winner from the previous season. So for example as Leinster won they host it in Ireland (with the Irish sides picking a legitmate venue). If a Welsh team wins it - somewhere in Wales etc.

I still think it should be neutral venue but there should be some advantage to whoever won the title previously given they have earned the right to host it. Grant it this system could mean if one team dominates the final would always be hosted in one country. I dont see that happening though with the greater pressure in the Pro12 clearly making a impact already this season.

No, it is owned by a British company based in London. That is why the launch of the Pro12 was held in London this year.

So if the Final was in London too you might have a point!

PenfroPete wrote:

Notch wrote:The final isn't on the 16th its on the 30th May. Semi-finals are on the weekend of the 22nd/23rd/24th May.

I have to revise my initial opinion tbh. I thought it was unfair at first but now I realise that the change in the calendar has made it necessary. Kingshu is right- five working days isn't enough for a whole final to be organised. Two weeks was difficult enough. The venue must be known beforehand.

This will eventually lead to being able to use bigger stadia so its a good thing. Just poorly announced. The teams must have known from a very early stage about this- but the fans should have known at the start of the season which is when the decision to open it up would have been made.

So, I think we can all agree, it's the blydi French's fault for bringing the Heineken No Sponsors Cup Final forward - yes ?

A Butterfly flaps its wings... It's a pretty big feckin' butterfly.

Notch wrote:No, it is owned by a British company based in London. That is why the launch of the Pro12 was held in London this year.

So if the Final was in London too you might have a point!

Ok fair point, but where is Guiness mostly drank, and where is their biggest market, come on, you know what I am going on about, it is still brewed in Ireland isn't it ?

Kingshu wrote:Sorry I mixed up dates.

Liberty stadium is free,
But as mentioned before, would the Liberaty be sold out if Ospreys didn't make it? Say Muster V Glasgow final? Bit risky as few years ago when Ospreys hosted a semi final against Munster they only attracted 10,026, would you be confident that it would sell out for a final, with or without Ospreys in it?

Think this year they have gone for the safest bet.

But, but, but I thought it was all about the best bid?

Not the safest bet?

Otherwise it will never leave Ireland. Because they have more teams of better calibre. Do you see why there are people that are annoyed? If you cannot, then there is truly no hope for this league.

LordDowlais wrote:

Sin é wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Sin é wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Kingshu wrote:National stadiums are too big for the final currently, it can't be half empty, think everyone knows this.

If that is the case, then why is the Scotland national stadium being used as the option for Scottish sides to hold the final ?

Scottish Rugby take the hit on the gates. The final gate goes to the organisers of the competition and helps pay prize money etc. to all the participants. Far more costly to hire a 60K+ stadium than an 18K stadium. In both cases, you need to be able to fill them.

yeah and Ulster will fill their stadium with out even being in the final wont they.

The Pro12 must be praying for an upturn in Ulsters fortunes this season, and then hope another Irish province gets to the final as well, because if it is Ospreys V Glasgow, the Irish had better put their hands in their pockets because you will not get much travelling fans there.

Its about as easy to get from Glasgow to Belfast as it is to get from Limerick to Belfast. Thousands of football supporters manage to go to soccer matches every week in Scotland and England from Ireland. Surely you can manage to do it for 1 week. Its not as if you spend a lot of money travelling to the knockout stages of the Heineken Cup.

If you think that an army of Glasgow fans are going to invade Belfast to watch Glasgow play against anybody I think you might need to re-think your argument. Unless there is an Irish team in the final it will be half full at best.

I'd be hopeful some of them would get off their arses for a change and stop complaining.

By the way, the Pro12 Tournament Director is David Jordan, formerly ceo of Glasgow. Maybe that is the reason its not in Scotland

http://www.edinburghgunners.org.uk/articles/david-jordan-named-new-celtic-league-tournament-director

LordDowlais wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Sin é wrote:Since it is basically Sponsor's Day, I'd imagine playing the final in a stadium called BT Sport might not go down too well with the PRO12s media partners or an empty Murrayfield too appealing to Guinness.

So you agree then, it's all a farce to keep the sponsors of the big Irish British company that is sponsering our league happy ?

Fixed that for you.

Guiness is Irish aint it ?

Nope, it's owned by a British company, and has been for years. It's a multinational brand that complements a multi-national league. Or even an English one when they sponsored the Premiership some years ago.

Oh and Sky are a British company too - sorry to disappoint.

Oh and the final venue is going to be in a British city as well.

I think it's a stitch-up by the British myself - they have their sticky fingers all over this deal.......

LordDowlais wrote:

Notch wrote:No, it is owned by a British company based in London. That is why the launch of the Pro12 was held in London this year.

So if the Final was in London too you might have a point!

Ok fair point, but where is Guiness mostly drank, and where is their biggest market, come on, you know what I am going on about, it is still brewed in Ireland isn't it ?

Well, I'm definitely not going to Nigeria to watch a game - http://www.theguardian.com/business/2007/aug/30/9 !!

LordDowlais wrote:

Notch wrote:No, it is owned by a British company based in London. That is why the launch of the Pro12 was held in London this year.

So if the Final was in London too you might have a point!

Ok fair point, but where is Guiness mostly drank, and where is their biggest market, come on, you know what I am going on about, it is still brewed in Ireland isn't it ?

I didn't realise the brewers were the real decision makers in all of this

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Kingshu wrote:Sorry I mixed up dates.

Liberty stadium is free,
But as mentioned before, would the Liberaty be sold out if Ospreys didn't make it? Say Muster V Glasgow final? Bit risky as few years ago when Ospreys hosted a semi final against Munster they only attracted 10,026, would you be confident that it would sell out for a final, with or without Ospreys in it?

Think this year they have gone for the safest bet.

But, but, but I thought it was all about the best bid?

Not the safest bet?

Otherwise it will never leave Ireland. Because they have more teams of better calibre. Do you see why there are people that are annoyed?  If you cannot, then there is truly no hope for this league.

You seem to be not asking the other salient question - why did none of the Welsh regions/cities bid to host it?

Pot Hale wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Kingshu wrote:Sorry I mixed up dates.

Liberty stadium is free,
But as mentioned before, would the Liberaty be sold out if Ospreys didn't make it? Say Muster V Glasgow final? Bit risky as few years ago when Ospreys hosted a semi final against Munster they only attracted 10,026, would you be confident that it would sell out for a final, with or without Ospreys in it?

Think this year they have gone for the safest bet.

But, but, but I thought it was all about the best bid?

Not the safest bet?

Otherwise it will never leave Ireland. Because they have more teams of better calibre. Do you see why there are people that are annoyed?  If you cannot, then there is truly no hope for this league.

You seem to be not asking the other salient question - why did none of the Welsh regions/cities bid to host it?

Because they knew Ulster would get it probably.

LordDowlais wrote:

Notch wrote:No, it is owned by a British company based in London. That is why the launch of the Pro12 was held in London this year.

So if the Final was in London too you might have a point!

Ok fair point, but where is Guiness mostly drank, and where is their biggest market, come on, you know what I am going on about, it is still brewed in Ireland isn't it ?

Eh....sorry to disappoint again.

Guinness's biggest market is in the UK. Ireland is second, although Nigeria overtook them in that spot for a while. In fact, Nigeria may now be the number one market for them.

Pot Hale wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Kingshu wrote:Sorry I mixed up dates.

Liberty stadium is free,
But as mentioned before, would the Liberaty be sold out if Ospreys didn't make it? Say Muster V Glasgow final? Bit risky as few years ago when Ospreys hosted a semi final against Munster they only attracted 10,026, would you be confident that it would sell out for a final, with or without Ospreys in it?

Think this year they have gone for the safest bet.

But, but, but I thought it was all about the best bid?

Not the safest bet?

Otherwise it will never leave Ireland. Because they have more teams of better calibre. Do you see why there are people that are annoyed?  If you cannot, then there is truly no hope for this league.

You seem to be not asking the other salient question - why did none of the Welsh regions/cities bid to host it?

Well will have to ask the powers to be that, but first and foremost it should never have happened in my opinion, and it just seems another strange act of circumstance that it should happen when it looks like an Irish team will not be the highest placed team in the league.

The best way to guarantee failure is not to try.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Kingshu wrote:Sorry I mixed up dates.

Liberty stadium is free,
But as mentioned before, would the Liberaty be sold out if Ospreys didn't make it? Say Muster V Glasgow final? Bit risky as few years ago when Ospreys hosted a semi final against Munster they only attracted 10,026, would you be confident that it would sell out for a final, with or without Ospreys in it?

Think this year they have gone for the safest bet.

But, but, but I thought it was all about the best bid?

Not the safest bet?

Otherwise it will never leave Ireland. Because they have more teams of better calibre. Do you see why there are people that are annoyed?  If you cannot, then there is truly no hope for this league.

You seem to be not asking the other salient question - why did none of the Welsh regions/cities bid to host it?

Because they knew Ulster would get it probably.

So a city/stadium that hadn't hosted it before (Belfast) and another city/stadium that hadn't hosted it before (Glasgow) were the only two bids put forward. And the Welsh clubs decided that they wouldn't bid because they knew Belfast would get it because.......?

I don't think thats true though.. I think the league has been close and still is, and when this process began it would not have been at all clear who would finish top- and it still isn't clear. Ulster could yet finish in the top two.

All of the major players play each other in the last few rounds. I imagine places will change rapidly right up until the very end. It's the closest its been in a long time.

LordDowlais wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Kingshu wrote:Sorry I mixed up dates.

Liberty stadium is free,
But as mentioned before, would the Liberaty be sold out if Ospreys didn't make it? Say Muster V Glasgow final? Bit risky as few years ago when Ospreys hosted a semi final against Munster they only attracted 10,026, would you be confident that it would sell out for a final, with or without Ospreys in it?

Think this year they have gone for the safest bet.

But, but, but I thought it was all about the best bid?

Not the safest bet?

Otherwise it will never leave Ireland. Because they have more teams of better calibre. Do you see why there are people that are annoyed?  If you cannot, then there is truly no hope for this league.

You seem to be not asking the other salient question - why did none of the Welsh regions/cities bid to host it?

Well will have to ask the powers to be that, but first and foremost it should never have happened in my opinion, and it just seems another strange act of circumstance that it should happen when it looks like an Irish team will not be the highest placed team in the league.

Well your line of argument seems to be based on throwing around lots of unsubstantiated allegations and innuendos at your neighbours, but yet you don't seem to be able to look around your own house first. You'll have to talk to the powers that be first. How very gracious of you.

LordDowlais wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Kingshu wrote:Sorry I mixed up dates.

Liberty stadium is free,
But as mentioned before, would the Liberaty be sold out if Ospreys didn't make it? Say Muster V Glasgow final? Bit risky as few years ago when Ospreys hosted a semi final against Munster they only attracted 10,026, would you be confident that it would sell out for a final, with or without Ospreys in it?

Think this year they have gone for the safest bet.

But, but, but I thought it was all about the best bid?

Not the safest bet?

Otherwise it will never leave Ireland. Because they have more teams of better calibre. Do you see why there are people that are annoyed?  If you cannot, then there is truly no hope for this league.

You seem to be not asking the other salient question - why did none of the Welsh regions/cities bid to host it?

Well will have to ask the powers to be that, but first and foremost it should never have happened in my opinion, and it just seems another strange act of circumstance that it should happen when it looks like an Irish team will not be the highest placed team in the league.

A brave prediction bearing in mind that Ospreys are 2pts ahead of Munster and 3 against Leinster. Glasgow are 1pt. Munster even have a better point difference over the 2 of them (and in fact, Glasgow is way behind).

Notch wrote:I don't think thats true though.. I think the league has been close and still is, and when this process began it would not have been at all clear who would finish top- and it still isn't clear. Ulster could yet finish in the top two.

All of the major players play each other in the last few rounds. I imagine places will change rapidly right up until the very end. It's the closest its been in a long time.

3 points between the top 4. Glasgow and Ospreys have to play each other twice. Who knows what the top 4 will look like by May.

Pot Hale wrote:

Well your line of argument seems to be based on throwing around lots of unsubstantiated allegations and innuendos at your neighbours, but yet you don't seem to be able to look around your own house first.  You'll have to talk to the powers that be first.  How very gracious of you.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n-UGQcG3Jw

Especially the "You can prove anything with facts" line. And "I prefer to rely on ignorance and blind prejudice"

Just to be clear, I have no problem with the final being in Belfast. Rather, It is the fact that the decision making process for allocating the final was changed and fans knew nothing about it. Bearing in mind the previous 5 finals had been sell-outs then any attempted justification that it was to sell more tickets doesn’t hold water.

I still think the top of the table getting the home advantage is the correct way to go – and no I don’t think the Ospreys will hang on to top spot The strain of having to play with numerous injuries to the pack, thus having to play so many youngsters will eventually get to them I fear. They have been great up to this point in the season but the effort is now most definitely taking its toll

PenfroPete wrote:Just to be clear, I have no problem with the final being in Belfast. Rather, It is the fact that the decision making process for allocating the final was changed and fans knew nothing about it. Bearing in mind the previous 5 finals had been sell-outs then any attempted justification that it was to sell more tickets doesn’t hold water.

Finally a common sense view

I totally agree with you. It must have been obvious to the Pro12 board that they would have to change the way the final was allocated all the way back in the summer when the new European format was agreed. Thats when we should have been told about it.

Simon Thomas has tweeted that the WRU and RRW were both aware of the process for tendering bids to host the final, but there was no bid from Wales.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

Well your line of argument seems to be based on throwing around lots of unsubstantiated allegations and innuendos at your neighbours, but yet you don't seem to be able to look around your own house first.  You'll have to talk to the powers that be first.  How very gracious of you.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n-UGQcG3Jw

Especially the "You can prove anything with facts" line. And "I prefer to rely on ignorance and blind prejudice"

I like that - thanks for the link.

Notch wrote:

PenfroPete wrote:Just to be clear, I have no problem with the final being in Belfast. Rather, It is the fact that the decision making process for allocating the final was changed and fans knew nothing about it. Bearing in mind the previous 5 finals had been sell-outs then any attempted justification that it was to sell more tickets doesn’t hold water.

Simon Thomas has tweeted that the WRU and RRW were both aware of the process for tendering bids to host the final, but there was no bid from Wales.

Interesting. I wonder why they didn't bid? I reckon it was the commercial arrangements rather than the minimum capacity issue since Swansea was available.

I remember there was rumours last year that if Glasgow were to meet Ulster in the final it was going to be played at Ravehill, i hope this isn't true but todays news makes me think it was.

Pot Hale wrote:

Notch wrote:

PenfroPete wrote:Just to be clear, I have no problem with the final being in Belfast. Rather, It is the fact that the decision making process for allocating the final was changed and fans knew nothing about it. Bearing in mind the previous 5 finals had been sell-outs then any attempted justification that it was to sell more tickets doesn’t hold water.

Simon Thomas has tweeted that the WRU and RRW were both aware of the process for tendering bids to host the final, but there was no bid from Wales.

Interesting.  I wonder why they didn't bid?  I reckon it was the commercial arrangements rather than the minimum capacity issue since Swansea was available.

Geoff said they were playing Man city at the Liberty so it wouldn't be available.

Well Geoff is wrong.

Maybe they prefer the final in Belfast?

VinceWLB wrote:I remember there was rumours last year that if Glasgow were to meet Ulster in the final it was going to be played at Ravehill, i hope this isn't true but todays news makes me think it was.

This has nothing to do with last year, but there was a hint of truth in that rumour.

If Glasgow had a home final, Scotstoun Stadium doesn't have the 18,000 capacity min that is required (and if can expand to that they didn't have time to get city council aproval and erect it in time), Murrayfield is too big and wouldn't sell out in time, two weeks isn't enough time for Glasgow to arrange a football stadium, therfore the closest available stadium that could be used was prob Ravenhill.

Just seen this thread. Did I miss anything?!

LordDowlais wrote:Well Geoff is wrong.

True. Clearly they just didn't want to host it.

HammerofThunor wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Well Geoff is wrong.

True. Clearly they just didn't want to host it.

In a nutshell - that's about the size of it.

Commercially, too risky I suspect.

Amazing journalism from the Irish again. It's no wonder so many their fans are so ill-informed on rugby outside their own bubble:

"But Pro12 tradition shows the likelihood is that at least one Irish team will be in the Ulster final. Just one final since the 2001-02 season has been without an Irish presence."

"In 2006-07, Cardiff Blues were beaten by Ospreys, who have won the title four times. All of the other finals have involved at least one of the Irish provinces."

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/other-sports/all-roads-lead-to-ulster-for-the-pro12-final-1.2080371

Chunky Norwich wrote:Amazing journalism from the Irish again. It's no wonder so many their fans are so ill-informed on rugby outside their own bubble:

"But Pro12 tradition shows the likelihood is that at least one Irish team will be in the Ulster final. Just one final since the 2001-02 season has been without an Irish presence."

"In 2006-07, Cardiff Blues were beaten by Ospreys, who have won the title four times. All of the other finals have involved at least one of the Irish provinces."

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/other-sports/all-roads-lead-to-ulster-for-the-pro12-final-1.2080371

Which part is ill informed?

Maybe the bold bit?

The play-offs only started in 2009 - 10 season, therefore the phrasing "Just one final since the 2001-02 season has been without an Irish presence" is somewhat disingenuous to say the least

PenfroPete wrote:The play-offs only started in 2009 - 10 season, therefore the phrasing "Just one final since the 2001-02 season has been without an Irish presence" is somewhat disingenuous to say the least

Also, it appears the journo has just magically decided that there was a final between Cardiff and Ospreys that year. The only league game between them was earlier in the season. This is what we're up against.

Oh that. Looks like the ministry of truth lost the run of themselves a bit - hopefully they can update the pro12 website and wikipedia with the remaining finals before anyone checks up on it.

This might be a revolutionary thought, but what if we had a system where all the Pro12 teams play each other - let's say twice a season, one home and one away. Points can be awarded for winning plus some bonus point system for trying really hard or something. Then at the end of the season the team with the most points is called the winner?

No worries about "playoff" and "final" or remembering what country to travel to. Might even help with scheduling other cup competitions?

Anyway what do I know - it will never catch on.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

PenfroPete wrote:The play-offs only started in 2009 - 10 season, therefore the phrasing "Just one final since the 2001-02 season has been without an Irish presence" is somewhat disingenuous to say the least

Also, it appears the journo has just magically decided that there was a final between Cardiff and Ospreys that year. The only league game between them was earlier in the season. This is what we're up against.

Think he used to work at the Western Fail

There were playoffs in the original format, there were finals in 2001-2002 and 2002-2003. Those finals were won by Leinster and Munster.

So the second part is bullshoite but the first part is actually fair enough.

So they made up a little less than initially thought?