2015 World Cup

First topic message reminder :

March

Semi-finals

24 Semi-final 1, South Africa v New Zealand, Auckland (01:00 GMT)

26 Semi-final 2, India v Australia, Sydney (03:30 GMT)

Final

29 Final, Melbourne (05:30 BST)

Shambles. Sort it out a ECB.

Duty281 wrote:

We moved the Ashes for that?! For beating Scotland?!

.

The Ashes were moved to make more money. As it conveniently re-aligned things so we could be "treated" to 3 Ashes series in 2 years. Wake me up when the next one has finished

Duty281 wrote:

We moved the Ashes for that?! For beating Scotland?!

Well... you did need to show them who's boss.

KP_fan wrote:Ind can't believe it........get to play BD in QF....OMG...luck smiling on Dhoni.

Eng has to pay more attention ot limited over circket...

Its been the sole focus since the ashes, and they had been trailing new players for some time with a view to this. They have specialist players, coaches and captain ...what more can they do?

A strong portion of this is mental flatulence.

Look on the bright side.

At least England can come over here now and relax on our wonderful beaches before taking on Afghanistan.
That is the best way to end a horror tour.

We have a saying here: something like "forgetting your woes once you're in paradise..."

The Loaded Dog wrote:Look on the bright side.

At least England can come over here now and relax on our wonderful beaches before taking on Afghanistan.
That is the best way to end a horror tour.

We have a saying here: something like "forgetting your woes once you're in paradise..."

We also have such a saying that's why so many try to get there early and take as much with them as they can...


Sorry TLD...Couldn't resist

The ICC should think long and hard about their decision to reduce the number of teams for the World Cup next time round. Here were two teams putting on a great spectacle and nerve-wracking finish and to think we might be deprived of both these teams next time round is disappointing...

Too soon?

Actually the format of the tournament could have seen an undeserved England make the quarters and go deep into the knockout round. I believe more emphasis needs to be put on pool play and if you get humbled twice, that really should be it.

In the long run this is probably the best result England could hope for as it is impossible to hide from the embarrassment they have caused their fans and themselves in the pool games. A turnaround in the knockout round could've papered over the gaping holes in the England ODI team at the moment. Bangladesh played well and their supporters deserve a lot of credit for boosting their team at key moments but this hasn't been just the one slip. Banana peels litter the floor where the England players have walked.

ShahenshahG wrote:

The Loaded Dog wrote:Look on the bright side.

At least England can come over here now and relax on our wonderful beaches before taking on Afghanistan.
That is the best way to end a horror tour.

We have a saying here: something like "forgetting your woes once you're in paradise..."

We also have such a saying that's why so many try to get there early and take as much with them as they can...


Sorry TLD...Couldn't resist

See... we are all the same really. Same end goals; just different ways of getting there!

Gooseberry wrote: A strong portion of this is mental flatulence.

In Afrikaans they say, in slightly more hardline terms, It doesnt help to cry. Accept it and move on

Gooseberry wrote:

KP_fan wrote:Ind can't believe it........get to play BD in QF....OMG...luck smiling on Dhoni.

Eng has to pay more attention to limited over cricket...

Its been the sole focus since the ashes, and they had been trailing new players for some time with a view to this. They have specialist players, coaches and captain ...what more can they do?

A strong portion of this is mental flatulence.

--They do not play the TopT20 leagues and actually look down upon...actually invoke it as a patriotic test to put county and test matches over the T20 leagues ( which are IPL primarily and Big Bash secondarily)

So they have just not conditioned themselves and evolved with the art of limited over cricket that other teams demonstrate.

--Nor do they have coaches who have the IPL experience

Eng have lagged behind on the curve of evolution and simply telling yourself......for 5 months before the wold cup I will not play any other form of cricket doesn't make a difference.

Unless they adapt T20 leagues who whole-heartedly....there is no way their cricketers can catch up in limited over cricket.

Time to just come to the realisation that England are crap at limited over cricket and that it isn't gonna change anytime soon.

Issue is, in this WC, for the first time in a long time we actually have players who can play modern ODI cricket, but they either haven't been picked or been messed around horribly re. selection. Hales, Taylor, Root, Buttler are all players who can play, but none of them really know their role. Hales got 4/5 ODIs against India and Taylor has been moved around the order. Moores has to go, there is no other option really.

Would like to see them just say bugger it, and go Hales, Roy, Taylor, Root, Stokes, Buttler, Ali, Woakes, Jordan, Broad, Tredwell this summer.

JDizzle wrote:Issue is, in this WC, for the first time in a long time we actually have players who can play modern ODI cricket, but they either haven't been picked or been messed around horribly re. selection. Hales, Taylor, Root, Buttler are all players who can play, but none of them really know their role. Hales got 4/5 ODIs against India and Taylor has been moved around the order. Moores has to go, there is no other option really.

Would like to see them just say bugger it, and go Hales, Roy, Taylor, Root, Stokes, Buttler, Ali, Woakes, Jordan, Broad, Tredwell this summer.

Please not Jordan, though I like the rest. Even Broad has gone backwards, though injuries never help.

Jordan's got potential, and he's a decent number 9 and very good fielder. Always helps. He was really good with the ball early last summer, but has gone backwards. I've got faith he can get back to it.

The Loaded Dog wrote:Look on the bright side.

At least England can come over here now and relax on our wonderful beaches before taking on Afghanistan.
That is the best way to end a horror tour.

We have a saying here: something like "forgetting your woes once you're in paradise..."

I remember when I was in Australia there was a commercial that said something like 'Beautiful one day, perfect the next'?

JDizzle wrote:Jordan's got potential, and he's a decent number 9 and very good fielder. Always helps. He was really good with the ball early last summer, but has gone backwards. I've got faith he can get back to it.

He looks so awkward to me. Plus, if we're only playing three seamers, you want your best three. Who they are, is anyone's guess.

Nachos Jones wrote:

The Loaded Dog wrote:Look on the bright side.

At least England can come over here now and relax on our wonderful beaches before taking on Afghanistan.
That is the best way to end a horror tour.

We have a saying here: something like "forgetting your woes once you're in paradise..."

I remember when I was in Australia there was a commercial that said something like 'Beautiful one day, perfect the next'?

That was the Queensland State Tourist ad.

"@miller_cricket: Peter Moores: "We thought 275 was chaseable. We'll have to look at the data." Genuine quote! #CWC15"

DATA SAYS IT'S TIME TO GO PETER

KP_fan wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:

KP_fan wrote:Ind can't believe it........get to play BD in QF....OMG...luck smiling on Dhoni.

Eng has to pay more attention to limited over cricket...

Its been the sole focus since the ashes, and they had been trailing new players for some time with a view to this. They have specialist players, coaches and captain ...what more can they do?

A strong portion of this is mental flatulence.

--They do not play the TopT20 leagues and actually look down upon...actually invoke it as a patriotic test to put county and test matches over the T20 leagues ( which are IPL primarily and Big Bash secondarily)

So they have just not conditioned themselves and evolved with the art of limited over cricket that other teams demonstrate.

--Nor do they have coaches who have the IPL experience

Eng have lagged behind on the curve of evolution and simply telling yourself......for 5 months before the wold cup I will not play any other form of cricket doesn't make a difference.

Unless they adapt T20 leagues who whole-heartedly....there is no way their cricketers can catch up in limited over cricket.

 

So you believe that T20 has far more relevance to 50 over cricket than first class cricket does? Your entire argument revolves around only a few English players appearing in IPL/BBL (like err Morgan for example).

Remind me again how many Irish players there are in IPL? Indeed how many Bangladeshis, only a handful. How many Pakistanis get contracts? Meanwhile pretty much anyone who looks vaguely West Indian has a contract to the exclusion of all other cricket, remind me again how they are getting on at this world cup?
Exactly how many IPL players did England have when they won the world T20?
Stokes did well in BBL yet has an atrocious international record, especially in T20 where his figures are more embarrassing than Englands performances at this cup. Ditto Luke Wright.

It doesnt really hold up to say ditching all international tours and cancelling the county season in favour of sending Ali to do a season in IPL will turn them into world champions overnight.
There is an element of truth that England need a sharper more competitive streamlined domestic game (not just to build limited overs players but also test ones), but its false to say that all their players need to be off playing IPL/BBL for them to succeed in ODIs.

JDizzle wrote:Issue is, in this WC, for the first time in a long time we actually have players who can play modern ODI cricket, but they either haven't been picked or been messed around horribly re. selection. Hales, Taylor, Root, Buttler are all players who can play, but none of them really know their role. Hales got 4/5 ODIs against India and Taylor has been moved around the order. Moores has to go, there is no other option really.

Would like to see them just say bugger it, and go Hales, Roy, Taylor, Root, Stokes, Buttler, Ali, Woakes, Jordan, Broad, Tredwell this summer.

Ali has been backed consistently, and not delivered.
Hales' record in ODIs is abysmal,hardly a shock hes struggled to nail down a spot.
Buttler had been consistently backed even through a sustained period of failure with the bat.
Ditto Morgan who is very much a "modern ODI" specialist
Taylor has been consistently selected since December, and done OK. His overall record is still pretty mediocre though, especially in run rate.
Root has been selected consistently in ODIs and delivered.

The only guy who can feel hard done by is Stokes who didnt make the tour at all, but then his record is rubbish too ...ditto his form at the time of selection.

In terms of being mucked about surely that honour goes to Bopara, Tredwell and Balance?

As for the summer...Anderson will be itching to prove what everyone knows, he struggles outside of England. Broad will probably get made Captain. But its really only Buttler and Root who can be said to have genuinely earned a place in a starting line up. Pretty depressing really.

Bring back KP

Olly wrote:"@miller_cricket: Peter Moores: "We thought 275 was chaseable. We'll have to look at the data." Genuine quote! #CWC15"

DATA SAYS IT'S TIME TO GO PETER

And to that, the computer says yes!

Hales hasn't set the world alight in ODIs, but his longest run of consecutive ODIs is 4 and he has international pedigree, with his exceptional T20I record. He has to be backed for an extended period, like Buttler has been, and if at the end of that he has scored no runs, then fine. Dispense with him.

Buttler gets plenty of rope because he has the potential to be world class, we've seen flashes of it. No-one else in the team has his potential ability, and his record his decent for the role he has been utilised in; essentially a last 5-10 over slogger.

Taylor batted three in SL and the tri-series, and looked like he was finding his feet, then got shifted down to 6. A role he has never performed before.

Ali isn't an opener for me. Think his style could be more conducive to batting 6/7, as I reckon he would be more aggressive than some vs spin in the middle overs.

Not sure you can say those guys have had their chances, particularly Taylor and Hales, and then say that Bopara has been messed about?! There is no-one who has been more consistently average for England than him. Ballance was a weird one, almost like they wanted him at 3 all along but couldn't play him earlier, due to his broken finger.

I think England's problem is Test match cricket is considered way more important.......

The Ashes this......The Ashes that..............Other Countries are prioritising the one day game...

Must admit when I see other Countries hitting 350 and you see Bell and Ballance batting 1 and 3.........You kind of wonder how the heck they are going to chase them down...

England aren't ruthless enough selection wise..............Give Bell, Morgan, Anderson, Finn and Broad a wake up call and drop them when you return.........

Give Root the captaincy as he seems like a fired up guy with a lot of heart and desire....

Morgan is too laid back..............Laid back isn't going to get the job done..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I think England's problem is Test match cricket is considered way more important......

That is not a problem, that is a good thing!

Duty281 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I think England's problem is Test match cricket is considered way more important......

That is not a problem, that is a good thing!

Judging by the last Ashes..........I'm not so sure it is..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I think England's problem is Test match cricket is considered way more important......

That is not a problem, that is a good thing!

Judging by the last Ashes..........I'm not so sure it is..

My dear fellow, Test Cricket is a far superior format than One-Day Cricket, with a higher skill-set required.

That is the way it must remain.

Duty281 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I think England's problem is Test match cricket is considered way more important......

That is not a problem, that is a good thing!

Judging by the last Ashes..........I'm not so sure it is..

My dear fellow, Test Cricket is a far superior format than One-Day Cricket, with a higher skill-set required.

That is the way it must remain.

the team with that mentality must then excel in tests

Test cricket is the pinnacle. It's the ultimate form of the game. Being good at Test cricket is better than being good at ODI. But is being the best at test cricket better than holding a world cup,

kingraf wrote:Test cricket is the pinnacle. It's the ultimate form of the game. Being good at Test cricket is better than being good at ODI. But is being the best at test cricket better than holding a world cup,

If you're going to prioritise it..Then at least be good at it..

kingraf wrote:Test cricket is the pinnacle. It's the ultimate form of the game. Being good at Test cricket is better than being good at ODI. But is being the best at test cricket better than holding a world cup,

No one else can decide for another nation.....you set your priorities but then at least excel in your chosen priorities.....

if India believe World Cup is the pinnacle then they will be judged on their W'Cup show
If Eng believe Ashes is the pinnacle then they will be judged on their ashes show
If WI believe getting Million dollar IPL contracts is the pinnacle  then they will be judged on their  T20 show( and they did win a world cup and were quite good in most all T20 world cups)

I quite like the idea of an English / British T20 league.

Although obviously different from 1-day cricket, I think it would help condition our cricketers to bat and bowl effectively in very short spells...something that can swing 1-day games, one way or the other.

Aside from that I'd imagine it would help make the game more appealing to teens and kids.

I'd also agree with whoever said there needs to be a change of emphasis in how 1-day cricket is played. If this WC has been anything to go by, there definitely needs to be more urgency and aggression in both batting and bowling. England often looked positively pedestrian (not to mention clueless) compared to most of their opponents.


Also think there needs to be a clear separation of Test and ODI / T20 squads. The latter two I think are similar enough that there can be some overlap, but as others have pointed out, Test cricket is a very different discipline. Expecting slow / careful, methodical players to adapt to the faster-paced versions of the game (or vice versa) is just asking for trouble.

They could do with really branching out their ODI and Test teams and having test ability nothing to do with ODI ability. I'd also be tempted to call up one day squads during test series to either go out and play other nations or gel together and practice with the test set up every so often.

I didn't say more important, I said better than. The length of a test match takes away the variables of one hot spell or cameo taking a match away. You have to be better for longer. Ergo, you have to be better at it respectively to win. Case in point, we've lost three Test matches since 2012. Australia lost that many ODIs in the Zimbabwean tour

kingraf wrote:Test cricket is the pinnacle. It's the ultimate form of the game. Being good at Test cricket is better than being good at ODI. But is being the best at test cricket better than holding a world cup,

I've seen England beat pretty much all the test teams and reach number one in the world. I'd much rather see them be rubbish at tests if it meant world cup success, the one thing I've never seen them win.

kingraf wrote:I didn't say more important, I said better than. The length of a test match takes away the variables of one hot spell or cameo taking a match away. You have to be better for longer. Ergo, you have to be better at it respectively to win. Case in point, we've lost three Test matches since 2012. Australia lost that many ODIs in the Zimbabwean tour

there is definitely more skill required in the longer format...that's why minnows are more competitive in T20s than in ODIs than in tests.......is one aspect.

another aspect ...already highly skilled nations in longer format have re-focused their skills at shorter format....WI from tests to T20 leagues
and India from tests to ODis and T20 leagues

manual type-writing and shorthand was a skill.......but no one wants it any more so it's become redundant and will go extinct soon.

50 over cricket is more likely to die than tests. Not that I think either will.

KP_fan wrote:Ko King obviously you are passionate BD fan.
Today is their day......put 250+ on the board and then press Eng down under pressure of runs.

I have heard rave reviews of Soumya Sarkar.....bats like a Gower, bowls like a Botham
BD are batting firs and that's a third of the battle already won

My point was people were underestimating BD and we had a tough game on our hands, I saw it as a 60-40 for england, but nearly everyone was under the impression BD was a Zim/Ireland Level team...Sarkar looks mediocre from what i've seen, whats the hype about, the Aussie Commentators talked about him in high regards also

dyrewolfe wrote:I quite like the idea of an English / British T20 league.

Although obviously different from 1-day cricket, I think it would help condition our cricketers to bat and bowl effectively in very short spells...something that can swing 1-day games, one way or the other.

Aside from that I'd imagine it would help make the game more appealing to teens and kids.

I'd also agree with whoever said there needs to be a change of emphasis in how 1-day cricket is played. If this WC has been anything to go by, there definitely needs to be more urgency and aggression in both batting and bowling. England often looked positively pedestrian (not to mention clueless) compared to most of their opponents.


Also think there needs to be a clear separation of Test and ODI / T20 squads. The latter two I think are similar enough that there can be some overlap, but as others have pointed out, Test cricket is a very different discipline. Expecting slow / careful, methodical players to adapt to the faster-paced versions of the game (or vice versa) is just asking for trouble.

About time they should have a Franchise T20, should have happened 5 years ago, only buttler looked like he knew how to use the crease properly in the short format, not everything has to be block and cover drive, watched the highlights, Mushfiq swept jordan for a 4, Nasser calls it a slog!!, thats the problem, these modern shots are called slogs even if the batsmen is well balanced and times it well, have no idea why we didn't push forward with this idea, should have been as big as IPL/BBL by now

Well everythings OK, Peter Moores has said he wants to keep his job. We can all rest easy in our beds now.

KO-KING wrote:

About time they should have a Franchise T20, should have happened 5 years ago...... have no idea why we didn't push forward with this idea, should have been as big as IPL/BBL by now

May have been something to do with the guy who was going to make it happen getting jailed for fraud and practically bankrupting the West Indies?


The whole county system does need to be looked at, not just for T20 but for all formats. As much as it pains me to say it counties like Leicestershire have become a dead weight and unable to sustain themselves. They are no longer producing decent players or a decent standard of cricket to help other improve. A closed league of maybe 10 or 12 bigger regional teams has to be the way forward at the professional level. Reward them for developing and employing EQ players with an increased split of the ECB handouts and use that to fund top class overseas add ons. Cricket simply does not have the audience or revenue to sustain 18 fully pro counties and ensure a decent level of competition to drive quality. The two division system has not fixed that

Best decision we ever made was going from eleven regions (similar to counties I suppose) to six franchises. Yes it cut the amount of people who could make a good living in cricket in half (still have a districts system below franchise where you can play semi professionally, like a few of my mates do, though). Absolutely rocketed up our standard. Went from group elimination in the world cup, sixth in the Test rankings to Semi finals in the WC and regular stints at world #1 in the World Odi rankings.

Gooseberry wrote:

KO-KING wrote:

About time they should have a Franchise T20, should have happened 5 years ago...... have no idea why we didn't push forward with this idea, should have been as big as IPL/BBL by now

May have been something to do with the guy who was going to make it happen getting jailed for fraud and practically bankrupting the West Indies?


The whole county system does need to be looked at, not just for T20 but  for all formats. As much as it pains me to say it counties like Leicestershire have become a dead weight and unable to sustain themselves. They are no longer producing decent players or a decent standard of cricket to help other improve. A closed league of maybe 10 or 12 bigger regional teams has to be the way forward at the professional level. Reward them for developing and employing EQ players with an increased split of the ECB handouts and use that to fund top class overseas add ons. Cricket simply does not have the audience or revenue to sustain 18 fully pro counties and ensure a decent level of competition to drive quality. The two division system has not fixed that

Its not like ECB lacked money, they had plenty finances, if countries like WI, SL and BD are holding these tournaments why cant england, no one is asking them to pay players 7 figures like the IPL, just pay them 1/5 of that and its still good money and will attract a lot of players, unlike the IPL, you can also have good players from ireland, Afg, Pakistan, Bangladesh.

Really very happy for Bangladesh. People have been focusing on how awful England have been, but a great deal of credit should go to Bangladesh. After losing 2 wickets for next to nothing, they came back well, and even after suffering a middle innings double wicket hit, they yet again came back through Mushfiqur and Mahmudullah. Then they stuck to their task with the ball too, a department where in they are weaker in comparison to batting. And that was achieved without Shakib Al Hasan leading from the front as usual. The Bangladesh seamers, Mortaza, Taskin and Rubel bowled well, and spin kept things quiet. They mostly held their own during pressure moments. So a much deserved win for Bangladesh, who did look the better of the 2 sides throughout the tournament anyways.

England had a horrible world cup. They didn't play any cricket of quality that would have deserved a 2nd round opportunity. They rightly go out. They haven't beaten a single test side in this world cup. And I am hppy tht they don't have too many excuses like the weather to explain this no-show.

Stella wrote:50 over cricket is more likely to die than tests. Not that I think either will.

50 over cricket will survive purely for the world cup.
There is no other alternative to the a meaningful world cup

Olly wrote:

... world cup success, the one thing I've never seen them win.

Olly, lad - some of us have been watching and waiting since 1975!

*Breaking*
Morgan offered to play for IRE should they make it to QF
IRE refused....given his 5 zeros in last 9 innings...he doesn't find a place in Irish-XI

I agree with msp that in all this Bangladesh aren't getting nearly enough credit. After chasing 300 odd fairly comfortably against Scotland (yes OK it's Scotland, but still a pressure situation) they really held their nerve here (just) to get a well earned victory and rightly qualify for the next stage.

There are plenty of things to say about England, but I will save them for the other thread/another time.

Delightful free hit for the Irish tonight. If they win, or tie, they are into the last eight. If they lose, no biggie, the crunch game against Pakistan is still ahead, and the weather in Napier may do them a kind turn.

India may be a touch complacent, perhaps not completely on top form?

Good luck Ireland.

Ireland batting first after winning the toss and bravely electing to lead first.

Pitch is flat, nice day too. 295ish par, 320 a good score?