The Indian Wells Masters 1000 Thread

by temporary21 Mon 09 Mar 2015, 5:11 pm

First topic message reminder :

Figured that masters 1000 events deserve their own threads and as such here is your place for all things Indian Wells.

by CaledonianCraig Sat 21 Mar 2015, 5:42 pm

What puzzles me greatly is this......will there be any silliness tonight during the Djokovic V Murray match on here. Categorically and definitely will say no. Djoko's fans on here are fine and I am pretty sure Murray fans are fine as well. The other semi ....likewise. If Federer waltzes to the win like I believe he will he will do so without any back-stabbing from others. If Raonic pulls off a major shock likewise I am pretty certain there won't be anyone on here salivating at Federer's demise or misfortune. That is how it should be but not how it was last night.

by TheMessi Sat 21 Mar 2015, 5:45 pm

It Must Be Love wrote:I'm not complaining about SB's behaviour ? And I didn't mention morals, I simply think having an attitude where you are focused on gaining happiness from someone else's misery is fundamentally different from if your motivations in watching tennis are more positive in nature.

I have often the feeling though that Nadal tries to gain the upper hand from his opponents by trying to make them play badly and not trying to beat them by playing better than his opponents best game.

In a way it is a bit similar to SB routing for someone to lose. Nadal is trying to make his opponent play badly. Am I wrong?

by bogbrush Sat 21 Mar 2015, 5:45 pm

It Must Be Love wrote:
bogbrush wrote: AND pronounce that posters are lying about their motivations - something they cannot prove.
What are you talking about ? Summerblues has been very clear from the start that he roots against Nadal, and has personally confirmed it to me.

bogbrush wrote:It's funny how posters get to both complain about others behaviour, putting themselves on done kind of moral high ground
I'm not complaining about SB's behaviour ? And I didn't mention morals, I simply think having an attitude where you are focused on gaining happiness from someone else's misery is fundamentally different from if your motivations in watching tennis are more positive in nature.

I wasn't referring to summerblues or you.

by temporary21 Sat 21 Mar 2015, 5:47 pm

Then take your whinging about people to pm. It's time to get this thread back on track

by It Must Be Love Sat 21 Mar 2015, 5:47 pm

bogbrush wrote:
I wasn't referring to summerblues or you.

I thought you were, my bad

by bogbrush Sat 21 Mar 2015, 5:48 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:What puzzles me greatly is this......will there be any silliness tonight during the Djokovic V Murray match on here. Categorically and definitely will say no. Djoko's fans on here are fine and I am pretty sure Murray fans are fine as well. The other semi ....likewise. If Federer waltzes to the win like I believe he will he will do so without any back-stabbing from others. If Raonic pulls off a major shock likewise I am pretty certain there won't be anyone on here salivating at Federer's demise or misfortune. That is how it should be but not how it was last night.

So you're saying the problem is thought police sensitivity when Nadal loses?

by bogbrush Sat 21 Mar 2015, 5:49 pm

temporary21 wrote:Then take your whinging about people to pm. It's time to get this thread back on track

You talking to me or the people complaining about posters attitude to players losing?

by It Must Be Love Sat 21 Mar 2015, 5:51 pm

TheMessi wrote:
It Must Be Love wrote:I'm not complaining about SB's behaviour ? And I didn't mention morals, I simply think having an attitude where you are focused on gaining happiness from someone else's misery is fundamentally different from if your motivations in watching tennis are more positive in nature.

I have often the feeling though that Nadal tries to gain the upper hand from his opponents by trying to make them play badly and not trying to beat them by playing better than his opponents best game.

In a way it is a bit similar to SB routing for someone to lose. Nadal is trying to make his opponent play badly. Am I wrong?

I'm not sure that analogy quite works.
Nadal at his best does counter-attack well, and turn defence into attack. However when he's playing poorly/ low on confidence he does play very defensively.
Even if we assume the case is like the latter, I think it's different from making your opponent play badly. Infact the fact he gives balls with high bounce does given an opportunity to the opponent to atleast try and attack- the problem for the opponent is with Nadal's speed and reflexes on defence- the opponent normally has to execute a string of shots that would normally each be winners.
I think that's different from making your opponent play badly.

by CaledonianCraig Sat 21 Mar 2015, 5:51 pm

No its the mentality of some to salivate at other players losing purely because they are a rival of their favourite player. Sure we all do it but better to keep the salivating private at home rather than using the forum to create bad feelings/confrontations and bad atmosphere.

by Haddie-nuff Sat 21 Mar 2015, 5:53 pm

TheMessi wrote:
It Must Be Love wrote:I'm not complaining about SB's behaviour ? And I didn't mention morals, I simply think having an attitude where you are focused on gaining happiness from someone else's misery is fundamentally different from if your motivations in watching tennis are more positive in nature.

I have often the feeling though that Nadal tries to gain the upper hand from his opponents by trying to make them play badly and not trying to beat them by playing better than his opponents best game.

In a way it is a bit similar to SB routing for someone to lose. Nadal is trying to make his opponent play badly. Am I wrong?

Well what a strange analysis isn't every player hoping to make his opponent make mistakes..What did Fed do to Berdych yesterday.?? They play on an opponents weaknesses.. thus making mistakes.. is that not the name of the game or am I missing something Are you suggesting that Nadal has achieved what he has by making his opponents play badly Erm

by temporary21 Sat 21 Mar 2015, 5:56 pm

Its quite a skill focing your opponent into playing poorly, other sports call that "neutralising", all the good players are great at that.

by bogbrush Sat 21 Mar 2015, 5:57 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:No its the mentality of some to salivate at other players losing purely because they are a rival of their favourite player. Sure we all do it but better to keep the salivating private at home rather than using the forum to create bad feelings/confrontations and bad atmosphere.

But it's ok to tell posters they're being dishonest and to hide behind piety?

Please, the pulpit is a bad fit for partisan fans.

by CaledonianCraig Sat 21 Mar 2015, 6:01 pm

bogbrush wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:No its the mentality of some to salivate at other players losing purely because they are a rival of their favourite player. Sure we all do it but better to keep the salivating private at home rather than using the forum to create bad feelings/confrontations and bad atmosphere.
But it's ok to tell posters they're being dishonest and to hide behind piety?

Please, the pulpit is a bad fit for partisan fans.

Enjoy the tennis BB. Erm

by TheMessi Sat 21 Mar 2015, 6:01 pm

I dunno when I see Fed v Djoko..they often both play very well and raise their games to higher levels. When it's Nadal v Federer it seems to me that Nadal is kind of patiently waiting for Federer to get tired or lose his timing.

I am not saying that is wrong....but it is no different than wanting someone to lose....whether as a fan or a player.

Wanting to win is similar as wanting your opponent to lose. Especially in the case of Nadal who has often distorted to the time rule to break his opponent's rhythm. He is famous for that....isn't he?

by It Must Be Love Sat 21 Mar 2015, 6:05 pm

TheMessi wrote:I dunno when I see Fed v Djoko..they often both play very well and raise their games to higher levels. When it's Nadal v Federer it seems to me that Nadal is kind of patiently waiting for Federer to get tired or lose his timing.

Well Nadal plays to Federer's weakness, he makes it hard for Federer to execute with the high topspin forehand to the Federer backhand.
If that makes it tougher for Federer, that's fair.

I don't see how this is in any way comparable to following tennis in order to root for someone to lose. Nadal's tactics are put into place for a primary positive motivation- i.e. him winning.

by Haddie-nuff Sat 21 Mar 2015, 6:06 pm

TheMessi wrote:I dunno when I see Fed v Djoko..they often both play very well and raise their games to higher levels. When it's Nadal v Federer it seems to me that Nadal is kind of patiently waiting for Federer to get tired or lose his timing.

I am not saying that is wrong....but it is no different than wanting someone to lose....whether as a fan or a player.

Wanting to win is similar as wanting your opponent to lose. Especially in the case of Nadal who has often distorted to the time rule to break his opponent's rhythm. He is famous for that....isn't he?

And you didnt think Federer was playing his game yesterday to make Berdych make mistakes ?? He caught Berdy out on the same shot so many times i lost count... I think you must be a teeny weeny bit biased Wink

by Haddie-nuff Sat 21 Mar 2015, 6:06 pm

It Must Be Love wrote:
TheMessi wrote:I dunno when I see Fed v Djoko..they often both play very well and raise their games to higher levels. When it's Nadal v Federer it seems to me that Nadal is kind of patiently waiting for Federer to get tired or lose his timing.
Well Nadal plays to Federer's weakness, he makes it hard for Federer to execute with the high topspin forehand to the Federer backhand.
If that makes it tougher for Federer, that's fair.

I don't see how this is in any way comparable to following tennis in order to root for someone to lose. Nadal's tactics are put into place for a primary positive motivation- i.e. him winning.

by bogbrush Sat 21 Mar 2015, 6:07 pm

Federer to win in two probably, but you can never discount a monster server getting at least one tie break set.

Djokovic to win in three after collapsing with exhaustion and requiring an iron lung at changeovers midway through the second set before winning a 200 stroke rally retrieving 99 consecutive shots from alternate sidelines and getting a second wind, forcing Murray to wear his little baseball cap and deliver second serves under 50mph.

by temporary21 Sat 21 Mar 2015, 6:07 pm

I think you've missed the point of the convo completely messi. We were talking about the mentality of taking glee from people losing and the problems it causes. We're not referring to a tactical mentality. All players look to win some do it by counter attacking. I don't see any relevance to nadals time between serves

by Jahu Sat 21 Mar 2015, 6:10 pm

Btw, come on Andy, crush him in 2.

by Haddie-nuff Sat 21 Mar 2015, 6:10 pm

bogbrush wrote:Federer to win in two probably, but you can never discount a monster server getting at least one tie break set.

Djokovic to win in three after collapsing with exhaustion and requiring an iron lung at changeovers midway through the second set before winning a 200 stroke rally retrieving 99 consecutive shots from alternate sidelines and getting a second wind.

So the only positive thing you have to say about any player is Federer ?? right? everyone else is open to negative criticism
no change there then

by bogbrush Sat 21 Mar 2015, 6:20 pm

Haddie-nuff wrote:
bogbrush wrote:Federer to win in two probably, but you can never discount a monster server getting at least one tie break set.

Djokovic to win in three after collapsing with exhaustion and requiring an iron lung at changeovers midway through the second set before winning a 200 stroke rally retrieving 99 consecutive shots from alternate sidelines and getting a second wind.

So the only positive thing you have to say about any player is Federer ?? right? everyone else is open to negative criticism
no change there then

^^^^^^^

Sense of humour bypass.

by Haddie-nuff Sat 21 Mar 2015, 6:24 pm

bogbrush wrote:
Haddie-nuff wrote:
bogbrush wrote:Federer to win in two probably, but you can never discount a monster server getting at least one tie break set.

Djokovic to win in three after collapsing with exhaustion and requiring an iron lung at changeovers midway through the second set before winning a 200 stroke rally retrieving 99 consecutive shots from alternate sidelines and getting a second wind.

So the only positive thing you have to say about any player is Federer ?? right? everyone else is open to negative criticism
no change there then

^^^^^^^

Sense of humour bypass.

You think its funny and thats all that matters l l l l l

by Jahu Sat 21 Mar 2015, 6:26 pm

Andy sleeping.

by Josiah Maiestas Sat 21 Mar 2015, 6:34 pm

Getting 3 games a set is all that Murray can get in this match. Much prefer listening to this with the Spanish commentators

Neutrals

by bogbrush Sat 21 Mar 2015, 6:50 pm

Djokovic is close to unbeatable on a slow hard court, he really is incredible at both retrieval and turning defence into attack.

by Josiah Maiestas Sat 21 Mar 2015, 6:52 pm

40 % serves in. Atrocious all round from Murray

by Jahu Sat 21 Mar 2015, 6:54 pm

Murray, embarrassing.

by Jahu Sat 21 Mar 2015, 6:56 pm

Djoko on exhibition mode.

by bogbrush Sat 21 Mar 2015, 7:02 pm

This 2nd serve is actually getting worse. Probably worse than in his career to date.

by bogbrush Sat 21 Mar 2015, 7:08 pm

What is the point of Mauresmo?

Murray is spurning chance after chance to go to the forecourt and put away not-hard volleys. Does he actually think he can outlast Djokovic playing passive backcourt tennis?

by Jahu Sat 21 Mar 2015, 7:08 pm

Someone give us a quick diagnoses as to why Andy is in coma today?

Disaster.

by Josiah Maiestas Sat 21 Mar 2015, 7:08 pm

Andy has no weapons. NONE.

by bogbrush Sat 21 Mar 2015, 7:12 pm

Josiah Maiestas wrote:Andy has no weapons. NONE.

Petchey trying to spin it as some kind of wonder show by Novak, who is actually needing to do no more than play forceful tennis and attack when he feels bored, secure in the knowledge that Murray won't play an attacking shot all day.

by LuvSports! Sat 21 Mar 2015, 7:15 pm

Djoko giving Murray a nice little game here.

by LuvSports! Sat 21 Mar 2015, 7:17 pm

3 straight djoko winners.

by LuvSports! Sat 21 Mar 2015, 7:17 pm

28% of first serves won.....

by **laverfan** Sat 21 Mar 2015, 7:20 pm

Haddie-nuff wrote:
laverfan wrote: Nadal's fans cannot handle his losses, they are fair weather fans only.

Not sure where you are going with this LF. I sincerely hope that remark is not aimed at me.. I have stuck with Rafa for almost his entire career and cheered his wins and wept at his losses. Never once, as anyone on this forum would surely agree, have I ever failed to be the fan he would hope for. Remarks can be made from disappointment rather betrayal. As for Borg, I wish he could come back tomorrow with all the failings you appear to believe he had. I too watched his career to its conclusion. WEAK??? the iceman are you kidding me ???

It is not aimed at you, H-n. My personal opinion is that any emotional attachment is very stressful. Losses and Wins, both should be handled with equanimity, but to each their own.

Borg's demeanor belies his travails and struggle with matters outside the court. Federer, is similarly very brittle too.

No player can tolerate a loss, but they can rationalize it, and move on. If Nadal had a MP yesterday, Federer had one at Rome 2006. They both lost. Federer had MPs against Safin, Monfils,... and yet lost.

Nadal will bounce back, as he has done in the past. He is one of the strongest-willed competitors I know.

Every time we have a discussion, of similar vein, I think of Lydian, and his ability to pursue the argument logically.

Back to the match at hand, Murray is completely off today, even worse than Berdych, methinks. Koenig is correct, take a couple of MPH off, and get some first serves in. I suspect a bagel/breadstick for Murray is in store.

by Haddie-nuff Sat 21 Mar 2015, 7:32 pm

laverfan wrote:
Haddie-nuff wrote:
laverfan wrote: Nadal's fans cannot handle his losses, they are fair weather fans only.

Not sure where you are going with this LF. I sincerely hope that remark is not aimed at me.. I have stuck with Rafa for almost his entire career and cheered his wins and wept at his losses. Never once, as anyone on this forum would surely agree, have I ever failed to be the fan he would hope for. Remarks can be made from disappointment rather betrayal. As for Borg, I wish he could come back tomorrow with all the failings you appear to believe he had. I too watched his career to its conclusion. WEAK??? the iceman are you kidding me ???

It is not aimed at you, H-n. My personal opinion is that any emotional attachment is very stressful. Losses and Wins, both should be handled with equanimity, but to each their own.

Borg's demeanor belies his travails and struggle with matters outside the court. Federer, is similarly very brittle too.

No player can tolerate a loss, but they can rationalize it, and move on. If Nadal had a MP yesterday, Federer had one at Rome 2006. They both lost. Federer had MPs against Safin, Monfils,... and yet lost.

Nadal will bounce back, as he has done in the past. He is one of the strongest-willed competitors I know.

Every time we have a discussion, of similar vein, I think of Lydian, and his ability to pursue the argument logically.

Back to the match at hand, Murray is completely off today, even worse than Berdych, methinks. Koenig is correct, take a couple of MPH off, and get some first serves in. I suspect a bagel/breadstick for Murray is in store.

Ok

but away from the forum Lydian could get very emotional regarding Rafa take my word for it Wink

by temporary21 Sat 21 Mar 2015, 7:35 pm

Not a great deal to work with here. Line and length from Novak, with no mistakes either. Nothing for Andy to do really but suck it up, fail, try again, fail harder as they say.

by Haddie-nuff Sat 21 Mar 2015, 7:41 pm

temporary21 wrote:Not a great deal to work with here. Line and length from Novak, with no mistakes either. Nothing for Andy to do really but suck it up, fail, try again, fail harder as they say.

Or if at first you dont suck seed then sod it !!! Very Happy

by Jahu Sat 21 Mar 2015, 7:42 pm

Worst match of the week.

Djoko a total rubber band, amazing.

by CaledonianCraig Sat 21 Mar 2015, 7:43 pm

Well no surprise in that result - straight sets win for Novak Djokovic. I say no surprise as you cannot beat Novak with a first serve not firing, being too passive and not hitting with depth and that was Andy today. It is a worrying trend that he keeps bringing to these crunch matches hence he is on a long run of losing them. Credit to Novak though as he looked very sharp and aggressive (though that may have been elevated by how passive Andy was).

For Novak he looks good for another Masters title but for Andy it is back home and needs reprogramming himself into a far more aggressive player more of the time.

by Jahu Sat 21 Mar 2015, 7:44 pm

bb got it right, instead of Sky suckers saying Andy was crap, for them Djoko was like an alien.

by **laverfan** Sat 21 Mar 2015, 7:44 pm

Well played Djokovic. clap

by Haddie-nuff Sat 21 Mar 2015, 7:45 pm

laverfan wrote:Well played Djokovic.

Like Rafa Andy still some more work to do... well done Nole clap

by HM Murdock Sat 21 Mar 2015, 7:48 pm

I was watching the rugby, so I only caught the last few games but it sounds like Murray had a bit of a stinker.

I think there is serious cause for concern now for Andy. No shame in losing to Djoko, especially on surface like this, but he shouldn't be brushed aside like that.

by CaledonianCraig Sat 21 Mar 2015, 7:51 pm

Haddie-nuff wrote:
laverfan wrote:Well played Djokovic.

Like Rafa Andy still some more work to do... well done Nole

I was thinking exactly the same.

by CaledonianCraig Sat 21 Mar 2015, 7:56 pm

HM Murdoch wrote:

I think there is serious cause for concern now for Andy. No shame in losing to Djoko, especially on surface like this, but he shouldn't be brushed aside like that.

Agreed and also needs to be much more aggressive and doesn't help when his first serve isn't functioning.

by Danny_1982 Sat 21 Mar 2015, 7:58 pm

I don't think Andy has ever looked more inferior to Novak. Well played Novak, but really poor from Andy. It was like a continuation of the last set and a half in the AO final.

Worst of all, his serving performance was utterly abysmal. First and second. Must be bad for Novak to mention it after. I'm not sure Murray's best would have pushed Novak today, looked like he had plenty of gears spare... But dear me. Where was the intensity?

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