We Go Again! The 2014/15 Premier League Thread

by **Crimey** Mon Mar 16, 2015 8:55 pm

First topic message reminder :

Who would have thought that Liverpool's strength would be the defence after the start to the season!

by GSC Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:04 pm

There's a general lack of desire from Tom Ince to graft his way to the top. Multiple chances to leave Blackpool for a PL side in the bottom half, happier being a big fish in a small pond

by Ent Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:07 pm

He couldn't get into palace or hulls team.

by Guest Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:08 pm

Yeah, I don't need to be told of Rodriguez's career, it was LiamB who brought this Rodriguez is 'not known by anyone' up. The difference between the two is gigantic, yet at the time Monaco were unrestricted without FFP & Ince Snr was obviously playing with them & wanting to strike some mega deal, even though it was likely to never happen. Can't blame him though, if you don't ask, you don't get. We've seen players elsewhere get ridiculous wages, when clubs are throwing money around during a building phase, under billionaire ownership

by GSC Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:09 pm

His ego and father tell him otherwise. Apparently his attitude was garbage when he was here for a month. Worryingly so was Chalobahs. Doesn't bode well for English football.

by Ent Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:10 pm

He was being delusional asking for parity, no matter the circumstances.

by super_realist Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:17 pm

Is he the same idiot who turned down a move to Inter to go to Hull?

by Liam Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:22 pm

So frustrating seeing young players with great potential being hampered by their attitudes and also the people advising them. Zaha? Morrison? Ince? Such a shame.

by Azzy Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:22 pm

The same. I'd rather sit on Inter's bench, playing with their U16s, than play for Hull.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:23 pm

Azzy wrote:Paul Ince has to share some of the blame for the way his son's career has come crashing down. After such a successful career of his own you'd think he'd know how football works. Asking for a huge payday when you've barely achieved anything, that's madness.

Or it shows he knows exactly what can happen and wants his son to make money whilst he has a buzz around him

by GSC Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:23 pm

To be fair, Zahas united career ended because he shagged Moyes daughter

by Liam Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:26 pm

Such a shame young footballer's would rather earn masses not playing than actually fulfilling their potential. Anyone think a possible cap on the wage a player can earn before the age of 21 could curb this or is it not feasible? Just a theory.

by GSC Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:27 pm

Not in a free market. Youngsters come here because we offer more

by super_realist Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:30 pm

Liam wrote:Such a shame young footballer's would rather earn masses not playing than actually fulfilling their potential. Anyone think a possible cap on the wage a player can earn before the age of 21 could curb this or is it not feasible? Just a theory.

Can't feel any sympathy for them, it's footballs problem, specifically football in this country for bringing up that sort of player with that sort of attitude.

I don't see the likes of Odegaard behaving moronically like Ince et al.

by Hammersmith harrier Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:32 pm

super_realist wrote:
Liam wrote:Such a shame young footballer's would rather earn masses not playing than actually fulfilling their potential. Anyone think a possible cap on the wage a player can earn before the age of 21 could curb this or is it not feasible? Just a theory.

Can't feel any sympathy for them, it's footballs problem, specifically football in this country for bringing up that sort of player with that sort of attitude.

I don't see the likes of Odegaard behaving moronically like Ince et al.

Would that have something to with him playing in a different country whereby the English/British media don't care so we don't hear about any such problems?

by super_realist Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:35 pm

I think we bring up people to be far more scummy (Ince) than the players from other countries.

Odegaard for example hasn't a prayer of starting for Real Madrid, but went anyway because it's obviously a great opportunity. However INce, turned down Inter to go to Hull.

Big difference in mentality there.

by Stella Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:35 pm

Ince's problem may be genes related. Not all our youngsters are 'big time charlie's' are they?

by Ent Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:36 pm

I'm not sure the problem is them earning a packet when they are 21, loads of top top players have done that, it is probably the fact that any decent player has an agent and has their ego massaged from their early teens. Then at 16 they are free to be poached by other clubs.

All the power is with them, even if they fail to make it as PL players they'll earn a fortune in the championship.

by Ent Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:36 pm

super_realist wrote:I think we bring up people to be far more scummy (Ince) than the players from other countries.

Odegaard for example hasn't a prayer of starting for Real Madrid, but went anyway because it's obviously a great opportunity. However INce, turned down Inter to go to Hull.

Big difference in mentality there.

Who wouldn't join Real Madrid for 80k a week at 16?

by Hammersmith harrier Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:37 pm

Odegaard went to Madrid because they offered him the highest wages, it has nothing to do with opportunity just money and it's the same with Ince who ended up getting more at Hull than he would have at Inter. The mentality is exactly the same and to suggest it's scummy is pathetic.

by Stella Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:39 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Odegaard went to Madrid because they offered him the highest wages, it has nothing to do with opportunity just money and it's the same with Ince who ended up getting more at Hull than he would have at Inter. The mentality is exactly the same and to suggest it's scummy is pathetic.

Was it down to money? Madrid are arguably the biggest club in the world. Ince's reasons for going to Hull may have some reasoning, mind.

by Ent Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:41 pm

Probably a lot of it down to money along with stature Madrid haven't exactly shone at playing youngsters in recent times.

I doubt he would have joined for 15k a week if other teams were offering him 40.

by Hammersmith harrier Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:42 pm

Stella wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:Odegaard went to Madrid because they offered him the highest wages, it has nothing to do with opportunity just money and it's the same with Ince who ended up getting more at Hull than he would have at Inter. The mentality is exactly the same and to suggest it's scummy is pathetic.

Was it down to money? Madrid are arguably the biggest club in the world. Ince's reasons for going to Hull may have some reasoning, mind.

It's the same thing, players join the 'biggest' clubs in the world because they are the ones who offer them the most money, the prestige of a club in respect to reasons for signing is severely over rated.

by super_realist Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:44 pm

Ent wrote:
super_realist wrote:I think we bring up people to be far more scummy (Ince) than the players from other countries.

Odegaard for example hasn't a prayer of starting for Real Madrid, but went anyway because it's obviously a great opportunity. However INce, turned down Inter to go to Hull.

Big difference in mentality there.

Who wouldn't join Real Madrid for 80k a week at 16?

Yes, but what idiot would turn down INter to go to Hull?

by Ent Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:47 pm

super_realist wrote:
Ent wrote:
super_realist wrote:I think we bring up people to be far more scummy (Ince) than the players from other countries.

Odegaard for example hasn't a prayer of starting for Real Madrid, but went anyway because it's obviously a great opportunity. However INce, turned down Inter to go to Hull.

Big difference in mentality there.

Who wouldn't join Real Madrid for 80k a week at 16?

Yes, but what idiot would turn down INter to go to Hull?

Inter not exactly Real, don't know what money he was offered.

Still should have joined them mind.

by super_realist Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:52 pm

No, I don't know what money he's offered, however, given his alleged talent. I'd be surprised if he would have been on less than 25k at either club.
Even if Hull were paying twice as much as Inter were, a sensible, ambitious young player with drive and endeavour would accept the "niggardly" salary of 1.3 million to be playing at a Inter rather than play for a terrible, relegation battling bunch of nobodies in the armpit of England for 2.6m

It's not a case of getting the most money, as once you earn a certain level it surely doesn't matter much to have more.

by Hammersmith harrier Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:54 pm

super_realist wrote:Ha ha ha.
No, I don't know what money he's offered, however, given his alleged talent. I'd be surprised if he would have been on less than 25k at either club.
Even if Hull were paying twice as much as Inter were, a sensible, ambitious young player with drive and endeavour would accept the "niggardly" salary of 1.3 million to be playing at a Inter rather than play for a terrible, relegation battling bunch of nobodies in the armpit of England for 2.6m

No they wouldn't, it's a job, you go where the money is and you'd be a liar if you said otherwise.

by Ent Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:57 pm

Yeah but lets say thats a 5 year contract, would you turn down £6.5 million quid?

Got to remember his career could be ended by injury at any moment.

Now I would have joined inter and think he should have but if he is being offered twice as much else where I can see reasons why he chose that.

by super_realist Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:57 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
super_realist wrote:Ha ha ha.
No, I don't know what money he's offered, however, given his alleged talent. I'd be surprised if he would have been on less than 25k at either club.
Even if Hull were paying twice as much as Inter were, a sensible, ambitious young player with drive and endeavour would accept the "niggardly" salary of 1.3 million to be playing at a Inter rather than play for a terrible, relegation battling bunch of nobodies in the armpit of England for 2.6m

No they wouldn't, it's a job, you go where the money is and you'd be a liar if you said otherwise.

#

It's a bit different if you play sport and the sums you are playing for are in the ridiculous levels like they are in football.

If you work at a decent job in the real world and someone offers you 60k instead of 40k , then of course you'll take it, however, if I was a multi millionaire footballer, i'd primarily be in it to be the best I can at my career, play to the highest level, with the best players, knowing that I'm handsomely rewarded regardless of where I am.

I'd much rather take less money to play at INter than Hull.
Besides, why should they be looking at the salary too much? If you're earning millions a year, there are only so many sleeve tattoos and beats headphones you can buy.

by Hammersmith harrier Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:05 pm

You would a big fat liar then, every single footballer on this planet wants as much money as they possibly can get and in his situation you would also want the best deal for yourself.

by super_realist Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:11 pm

I think you are confusing real life with the life of a footballer.

These guys are already fantasically wealthy, many players could retire at 23, never have to work another day, live the life of riley and never have to worry a bit about money.

To turn down the chance to be at Inter, and go to Hull instead, for the difference of a few hundred thousand pounds makes someone a catastrophic moron.

It's completely untrue that every player wants as much money as they can get.

by **Crimey** Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:14 pm

Also let's not forget the players like Adam Johnson, Scott Sinclair and Jack Rodwell who have all been criticised for moving to Manchester City, a big club, because they don't want to make a name for themselves at a smaller club.

If Tom Ince had chosen Inter Milan and ended up sitting on their bench, he'd have been criticised for not going for Hull and making a name for himself at a lower club.

Also let's not forget that Inter Milan are not the same team as they were 5 years ago, they are a mid-table side these days.

by Hammersmith harrier Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:15 pm

You are confusing your opinions as a person earning a decent wage with that of someone earning an extravagant wage, were you in Tom Ince's position your viewpoint would change.

Why on earth would you short change yourself for such irrelevant reasons and it is not untrue at all, we need to stop believing there is such a thing as loyalty in football, there is not.

by Ent Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:15 pm

You wouldn't know unless you are brought up in that life and in their shoes.

We are fans and dream of being footballers, we dream of playing for big clubs in full stadiums, winning trophies - not slogging it out in relegation battles for Hull. So it is easy to see why a lot of fans will say they would take say 25% less to play for a bigger side.

Also, to be fair, for a long time United didn't pay the big wages and top players took somewhat of a pay cut to play for them. E.g. Keane offered more by Blackburn and then Juventus when his contract was close to ending. Duncan Ferguson was earning more than him at Newcastle lol.

by Ent Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:17 pm

Crimey wrote:Also let's not forget the players like Adam Johnson, Scott Sinclair and Jack Rodwell who have all been criticised for moving to Manchester City, a big club, because they don't want to make a name for themselves at a smaller club.

If Tom Ince had chosen Inter Milan and ended up sitting on their bench, he'd have been criticised for not going for Hull and making a name for himself at a lower club.

Also let's not forget that Inter Milan are not the same team as they were 5 years ago, they are a mid-table side these days.

I don't think anyone criticised the ambition of many of those players initially, they were probably criticised for hanging around too long or for poor career moves (Sinclair).

by super_realist Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:18 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:You are confusing your opinions as a person earning a decent wage with that of someone earning an extravagant wage, were you in Tom Ince's position your viewpoint would change.

Why on earth would you short change yourself for such irrelevant reasons and it is not untrue at all, we need to stop believing there is such a thing as loyalty in football, there is not.

If I was supremely comfortable in terms of finance, as these guys are. Why on earth would I sully the chance to play at a top club, to play for a deadbeat club ?

It isn't about loyalty, it's about doing what's best for your career, and that isn't always financial, as in sport, the rewards of achievement aren't measured by your pay cheque.

Keeping it topical, Gerrard is another deadbeat. Could have played for most clubs in his career, stayed at a parochial bunch of hasbeens

by Ent Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:23 pm

Gerrard could have won a lot more, but he is probably happy enough with his career with what he won with his hometown club.

by Hammersmith harrier Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:23 pm

Larsson was on over £40k a week at Celtic which in the later 90's early 00's was a lot of money and he wouldn't have been paid much more if any more at another club. Le Tissier is a pre Sky and premier league player so no longer has any relevance to the modern big money game we now have.

by Derbymanc Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:26 pm

Because you being comfortable with earning even 5k a week is different to someone earning 35k a week.

More players than most will be playing for the chequebook rather than achievments and rewards. They can come later if your going to be a big player which very few will become.

The likes of a one club player is also extremely rare.

It would have been nice to see Ince go and try to learn a different style of play at Inter but if they're offering 5 - 10K less then I can see why Ince didn't go.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:28 pm

I still think Ince was smarter going to Hull than Inter. More chance of game time and less worry of a new style and a new country. It didnt work but hindsight is wonderful

by **Crimey** Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:28 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Le Tissier is a pre Sky and premier league player so no longer has any relevance to the modern big money game we now have.

What?

He played 270 games in the Premier League from its inception until 2002. He is also the 24th highest scoring player ever in the Premier League.

by Ent Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:28 pm

Derbymanc wrote:Because you being comfortable with earning even 5k a week is different to someone earning 35k a week.

More players than most will be playing for the chequebook rather than achievments and rewards. They can come later if your going to be a big player which very few will become.

The likes of a one club player is also extremely rare.

It would have been nice to see Ince go and try to learn a different style of play at Inter but if they're offering 5 - 10K less then I can see why Ince didn't go.

So do you think a player should join, lets say Spurs over Barcelona/Real Madrid if spurs offer 10k more a week?

by Ent Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:29 pm

Crimey wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:Le Tissier is a pre Sky and premier league player so no longer has any relevance to the modern big money game we now have.

What?

He played 270 games in the Premier League from its inception until 2002. He is also the 24th highest scoring player ever in the Premier League.

Lets not confuse this discussion with facts.

by CFCNick Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:29 pm

mystiroakey wrote:Joel ward

What? This guy?

We Go Again! The 2014/15 Premier League Thread - Page 8 Joel+Ward+Boston+Bruins+v+Washington+Capitals+7qseFrPFxKsl

by Hammersmith harrier Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:29 pm

Crimey wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:Le Tissier is a pre Sky and premier league player so no longer has any relevance to the modern big money game we now have.

What?

He played 270 games in the Premier League from its inception until 2002. He is also the 24th highest scoring player ever in the Premier League.

A player starting his career in 1986 i'm happy calling pre Sky and premier league, that's six seasons of his career, well aware he played in the premier league but still had an old school attitude.

by super_realist Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:30 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:I still think Ince was smarter going to Hull than Inter. More chance of game time and less worry of a new style and a new country. It didnt work but hindsight is wonderful

Should have taken the risk, one year in the doldrums learning a different style of football couldn't do him any harm. Not a hindsight thing, just seizing an opportunity.
I'm thinking of the likes of Robbie Keane who did just that. Didn't work for him, still worth a try.

by Liam Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:31 pm

I'm on the fence with this debate. On the one hand, I actually initially praised Ince for going to Hull over Inter. For me, Inter play in front of a half empty stadium and rarely challenge for the league. He would have more chance of playing at Hull and for a youngster to improve, game time must surely be the priority?

Yet I criticised Sinclair for going to City and also Rodwell, as for me it was clear they were only bought to fullfill the homegrown player rules that were introduced. That and the fact I didn't believe either were good enough to get into the City side at the time (Not saying they didn't have the potential to).

Its a tough one. Go to a big club, possibly not break into the team and get criticised for taking the easy money and play the odd game. Or go to or stay at a lower side but play week in week out but get criticised for having no ambition. Tricky debate.

by **Crimey** Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:32 pm

Ent wrote:
Derbymanc wrote:Because you being comfortable with earning even 5k a week is different to someone earning 35k a week.

More players than most will be playing for the chequebook rather than achievments and rewards. They can come later if your going to be a big player which very few will become.

The likes of a one club player is also extremely rare.

It would have been nice to see Ince go and try to learn a different style of play at Inter but if they're offering 5 - 10K less then I can see why Ince didn't go.

So do you think a player should join, lets say Spurs over Barcelona/Real Madrid if spurs offer 10k more a week?

Except there is actually a much bigger gap between Tottenham and Barcelona/Real Madrid then there is between Hull and Inter Milan. The last few years Inter Milan have not exactly challenged for anything.

At least moving to Hull means not having to learn a new language or adapt to a new culture, or also deal with the constant switching of managers that happens in Italy.

by super_realist Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:33 pm

Why is having to learn a new language or culture a bad or inconvenient thing?

by Hammersmith harrier Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:34 pm

super_realist wrote:Why is having to learn a new language or culture a bad or inconvenient thing?

It's quite clearly inconvenient initially, I move to Hull; people speak English whereas I move to Inter and they do not speak English, not really rocket science that one.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:35 pm

It can be a real dent to your career if it goes wrong, and he was certainly less likely to settle and play at Inter than he was at Hull. Arguably, his attitude is such that it didnt matter where he went cos hes flopped at Hull and would have at Inter.

by Sponsored content