I am EMBARRASSED to be Scottish!

After this years 6N, its fair to say that my country have let me down and made me EMBARRASSED which has been case for FIFTEEN years!

Not one player should be allowed to play for Scotland again and its time for change at SRU and head coaches position to because we are WORSE than ever before and tbh, I am dreading world cup!

Why the Frak are we so bad and how are our fortunes going to change because I am sick fed up of all this misplaced optimism going into 6N.

All I can say is thank god for our football team and a certain Andy Murray.

Thoughts?

I thought you said last week that it wasn't cotters fault and it was the assistant coaches that should go!

Well after today, I change my mind!!

Fair enough

Wonder if bookies have started odds on who next coach of Scotland will be!?

Don't think he will be replaced. Still think it's the assistant coaches more at fault. Main thing I can fault cotter with is poor player selection!

Can we consolidate all of the anger into one place?:
https://www.606v2.com/t58234-scotland-world-cup-look-ahead-and-six-nations-post-mortem

Totally unacceptable performance today.. That's it reslly

"All I can say is thank god for our football team and a certain Andy Murray."

A. Murray is a tool too. Not much comfort their I'm afraid.

englandglory4ever wrote:
A. Murray is a tool too. Not much comfort their I'm afraid.

Shame, he is always so complimentary about you.

Not knowing either of you personally, I have to say he seems much more pleasant.

Scottish Shaun wrote:All I can say is thank god for our football team

Yeah, because they are pulling up trees left right and center.

Scottish Shaun wrote:After this years 6N, its fair to say that my country have let me down and made me EMBARRASSED which has been case for FIFTEEN years!

Not one player should be allowed to play for Scotland again and its time for change at SRU and head coaches position to because we are WORSE than ever before and tbh, I am dreading world cup!

Why the Frak are we so bad and how are our fortunes going to change because I am sick fed up of all this misplaced optimism going into 6N.

All I can say is thank god for our football team and a certain Andy Murray.

Thoughts?

Is it worse than being ginger like?

Majestic83 wrote:Don't think he will be replaced. Still think it's the assistant coaches more at fault. Main thing I can fault cotter with is poor player selection!

He hardly knows them, if people are being honest with themselves.

The first warning about Cotter should have been a year waiting for him.  He may be a good coach - jury is actually still out on that one as he had a pretty slick side under him at Clermont and still kept falling short year upon year. Even considering Clermont's successes, how much of that was him and how much was it the coaches under him? 

But even if he is a genuine good coach, Scotland were too lax in thinking they needed this specific coach so much that they were prepared to wait virtually a full year for him to show up - and the WC now only months away.  Even the major sides have still difficulties with their preparations (as Richie's meltdown alludes to).  Scotland never had the leisure to wait for a stable coach to build towards a WC
He may now really turn things around but how far on would Scotland have been had he been there when he was signed on.

LondonTiger wrote:

englandglory4ever wrote:
A. Murray is a tool too. Not much comfort their I'm afraid.

Shame, he is always so complimentary about you.

Not knowing either of you personally, I have to say he seems much more pleasant.

Ha gas. Personally I really like Murray. I like his personality. He is human and acts accordingly. People get grumpy, thats life.

I like guys like Federer and Nadal too but it is pretty obvious they are managed so closely we never really get any insight as to what they are really like as characters so that makes it a little harder to warm to them as people IMO.

Grumpy always is probably the key though, Guns.  I stopped following tennis when my old bunch retired - McEnroe and such.  Big improvements in racket technology brought the big hitting players into it and killed off forecourt tennis (which was like ABs stuff compared to the over/back nausea of most of today's stuff.)

But anyway, on the rare occasions I've seen him over the years - always in sulk mood.  Monotone personality of groan and sulk.  He's a multi-millionaire, there is bound to be times when he feels like being more personable.

But the nail in it for me was a moment when a handicapped girl (I think) was brought onto the court for some presentation thing before a game.  Federer was there too and he really made a warm effort to make the kid feel special, holding her shoulder, smiling, little words.  Murray stood solid like a brick, never touched her, never engaged her.  Got the obligatory pics and back to the real biz without the silly distractions.

Didn't like that moment at all.  People do get grumpy.  Grumps at everything have less excuses though.

You should have waited until after the 6 Nations to have the Referendum

I like Murray too- not everyone is an extrovert. Some people don't want to bother with all the smiles and platitudes because it distracts their focus too much. He's trying to win tennis matches, not popularity contests.

I wouldn't consider treating a child with a degree of warmth platitudinous - but there you go. We truly are all different in the world.

SecretFly wrote:I wouldn't consider treating a child with a degree of warmth platitudinous - but there you go.  We truly are all different in the world.

Nor would I, but the context of that meeting has to be taken into account. Its entirely different than meeting under normal circumstances. Before a game he just has his tunnel vision engaged. Very unfair to extrapolate from that how he would act in everyday life.

With Murray, I don't think it's anything to do with keeping focus on a game of tennis. I just don't think he likes being on camera!

I didn't like his attitude in the slightest, Notch.  That's all I'm saying.  And yes, I do somehow always look for how players react to those children that encircle them from time to time.  To me you do really pick up on character.

The rugby boys are actually great at it.  You can see them really trying to make those walk-outs a little special.  And it doesn't detract from then wanting to take an opponent's head off (legally and figuratively! ) when they get out on the field.  Paulie is great at it.  It shows true character how adults engage with children and give them comfort and reassurance.

Another hero of mine for the same reason is Beckham.  He always went the extra bit for the wide-eyed kids who were in a wonder-world surrounded by heros and TV cameras.  Always had the time to recognise their presence and make them feel part of things.

I always look for it in sporting occasions.

I'd largely agree with you. I think its a great thing for sportsmen to be generous to kids when their focus is on the game ahead of them. But while that's fine for some personalities, others just aren't as comfortable with that side of things. To some people it comes easily and naturally, to others it doesn't. That doesn't make them bad people or deficient in character. As you say we truly are all different in this world.

Federer is world experienced, educated, multi-lingual, urbane and a parent.

Murray is a fair bit younger, shy, introverted, survivor of Dunblane, sent away to Spain at a very young age, unable to speak the language and bullied, only just starting to understand who he is.

To expect either to behave the same, especially in circumstances where one loves to show off, while the other feels self conscious is surely daft.

Murray seems to be growing into a decent and modest human being. (Loved his reaction when the possibility of a knighthood was put forward post wimbledon).

I like him.

It's not all bad for Scotland, I mean there's Glasgow in the Pro12 looking like title contenders. For that matter they did look pretty good in purple patches throughout the tournament all be it their purple patches ended up mainly to no avail. It's all swings and roundabouts, rollercoasters and all that jazz. Things can change so quickly and fortunes can turn on a sixpence.

I'm trying to imbue modicom of some solace here.

P.S. Are you sure Murray is altogether 100% Scottish? It's just that the English Broadcasting Corporation (otherwise known as the BBC) refer to him as Scottish only when he fails to succeed, other than that he's fully British so they can feel that he's closer to being English

Notch wrote:I'd largely agree with you. I think its a great thing for sportsmen to be generous to kids when their focus is on the game ahead of them. But while that's fine for some personalities, others just aren't as comfortable with that side of things. To some people it comes easily and naturally, to others it doesn't. That doesn't make them bad people or deficient in character. As you say we truly are all different in this world.

Can't stand kids. Down mines or up chimneys is the only place they should be.

But I can't stand Murray either.

Oh the agony of choice.

Jimpy.................................. best solution for you is probably just to lie down - easier on the legs.

SecretFly wrote:Jimpy.................................. best solution for you is probably just to lie down - easier on the legs.

Are you stalking me as well as Mike Brown?

Well I was in this particular room before you showed up. Best I can offer you is the bed in the corner. I'm on my way out anyway. Lock the door when leaving

Secretfly I agree with you. Not a big fan of Murray - I want to like him but he shoots himself in the foot. At Wimbledon he has home advantage - you think he could show a little more enthusiasm, smile a little more, make a joke or two. He's improved but his opinion on the Scottish referendum was a silly unneeded gaffe. We know he's a diehard Scot but he didn't need to shout it from the rooftops when he's living in London with an English girlfriend - seems a bit hypocritical. Especially as his timing was calculated.

Wants UK support but doesn't want Scotland to be part of the UK - seems a bit contradictory to me.

To be honest I think Murray has a shocking PR team. If you met him in person he's probably not a bad bloke but as a public figure he's not someone that you can warm to.

I think a good word to describe Murray's public image is clumsy.

LondonTiger wrote:Federer is world experienced, educated, multi-lingual, urbane and a parent.

Murray is a fair bit younger, shy, introverted, survivor of Dunblane, sent away to Spain at a very young age, unable to speak the language and bullied, only just starting to understand who he is.

To expect either to behave the same, especially in circumstances where one loves to show off, while the other feels self conscious is surely daft.

Murray seems to be growing into a decent and modest human being. (Loved his reaction when the possibility of a knighthood was put forward post wimbledon).

I like him.

How did he react?

beshocked wrote:Secretfly I agree with you. Not a big fan of Murray - I want to like him but he shoots himself in the foot. At Wimbledon he has home advantage - you think he could show a little more enthusiasm, smile a little more, make a joke or two. He's improved but his opinion on the Scottish referendum was a silly unneeded gaffe. We know he's a diehard Scot but he didn't need to shout it from the rooftops when he's living in London with an English girlfriend - seems a bit hypocritical. Especially as his timing was calculated.

Wants UK support but doesn't want Scotland to be part of the UK - seems a bit contradictory to me.

To be honest I think Murray has a shocking PR team. If you met him in person he's probably not a bad bloke but as a public figure he's not someone that you can warm to.

I think a good word to describe Murray's public image is clumsy.

To err is to be human.

He probably doesnt see wimbledon as his home. Grand dont shout it from the rooftops but Im sure re the referendum he was asked over and over again where his allegiances lay. My understanding he didnt comment until the final hour, no?

GunsGerms wrote:

beshocked wrote:Secretfly I agree with you. Not a big fan of Murray - I want to like him but he shoots himself in the foot. At Wimbledon he has home advantage - you think he could show a little more enthusiasm, smile a little more, make a joke or two. He's improved but his opinion on the Scottish referendum was a silly unneeded gaffe. We know he's a diehard Scot but he didn't need to shout it from the rooftops when he's living in London with an English girlfriend - seems a bit hypocritical. Especially as his timing was calculated.

Wants UK support but doesn't want Scotland to be part of the UK - seems a bit contradictory to me.

To be honest I think Murray has a shocking PR team. If you met him in person he's probably not a bad bloke but as a public figure he's not someone that you can warm to.

I think a good word to describe Murray's public image is clumsy.

To err is to be human.

He probably doesnt see wimbledon as his home. Grand dont shout it from the rooftops but Im sure re the referendum he was asked over and over again where his allegiances lay. My understanding he didnt comment until the final hour, no?

I think Murray winning 'Sports Personality Of The Year' was one of the classic examples people cite when they say that the award is a misnomer.

"I think Murray winning 'Sports Personality Of The Year' was one of the classic examples people cite when they say that the award is a misnomer."

He's a cracking tennis player by the way, but we all know that

Gunsgerms yes he commented at the final hour so his opinion would make a full impact. I thought he should have kept quiet on the topic personally. Plus any figure which benefits from the UK like Andy Murray or Sean Connery shouldn't really be trashing it. It comes across as a bit hypocritical.

Jimpy true.

beshocked wrote:Gunsgerms yes he commented at the final hour so his opinion would make a full impact. I thought he should have kept quiet on the topic personally. Plus any figure which benefits from the UK like Andy Murray or Sean Connery shouldn't really be trashing it. It comes across as a bit hypocritical.

Jimpy true.  

Correct me if Im wrong but his comment was also a little ambiguous too?

In any case its for those reasons that I like him. He likes to say what he really thinks. Its not like he is a bigot or xenaphobe or a knob like Jeremy Clarkson!!

GunsGerms wrote:

beshocked wrote:Gunsgerms yes he commented at the final hour so his opinion would make a full impact. I thought he should have kept quiet on the topic personally. Plus any figure which benefits from the UK like Andy Murray or Sean Connery shouldn't really be trashing it. It comes across as a bit hypocritical.

Jimpy true.  

Correct me if Im wrong but his comment was also a little ambiguous too?

In any case its for those reasons that I like him. He likes to say what he really thinks. Its not like he is a bigot or xenaphobe or a knob like Jeremy Clarkson!!

He has definitely made what could be construed as xenophobic comments against the English early on his career. Probably before he was taught how to behave in public by a PR type - it obviously didn't work very well, his comments during the Referendum were ill-advised at best.

Oh really? Such as?

I cant say Im surprised as an Irish person I know that both Irish and Scots have a notoriously spikey relationship with England. we do love you though.  

Ill advised? Surely he is allowed consider himself more Scottish that British? It sucks if you are English and a fan but he is from Scotland.

Rory McIlroy probably positions himself as a union supporter but I still consider him an Irishman and dont hold it against him.

Murray is probably a nicer person than Clarkson but I know who I'd rather watch on TV - Clarkson every day of the week. I am sure away from the cameras, Murray is a good guy but his public image isn't great.

Clarkson has made a career on saying what he thinks and mostly getting away with it - it's only now that he's punched someone which has got him in trouble.

Clarkson has made himself the poster boy of the non pc brigade whether you agree with him or not.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/andy-murray-says-11th-hour-scottish-independence-tweet-backing-yes-campaign-is-not-something-he-would-do-again-9750970.html#

Not ambiguous. Murray made it clear who he was supporting.

The strange thing about Clarkson is even though as you call Clarkson xenophobic and bigoted which he probably is - people outside the UK do like him. Probably more popular than Murray.

Saying what you think is fine if you can back it up with some quirkiness and charisma - Murray lacks that.

beshocked wrote:Murray is probably a nicer person than Clarkson but I know who I'd rather watch on TV - Clarkson every day of the week.  I am sure away from the cameras, Murray is a good guy but his public image isn't great.

Clarkson has made a career on saying what he thinks and mostly getting away with it - it's only now that he's punched someone which has got him in trouble.

Clarkson has made himself the poster boy of the non pc brigade whether you agree with him or not.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/andy-murray-says-11th-hour-scottish-independence-tweet-backing-yes-campaign-is-not-something-he-would-do-again-9750970.html#

Not ambiguous. Murray made it clear who he was supporting.

The strange thing about Clarkson is even though as you call Clarkson xenophobic and bigoted which he probably is - people outside the UK do like him. Probably more popular than Murray.

Saying what you think is fine if you can back it up with some quirkiness and charisma - Murray lacks that.

Well if Clarkson was anything other than English and as bigoted and insulting towards England as his towards everywhere else you surely wouldnt like him as much as you do. Also he has years experience on TV so you would expect he would be more watchable than Murray because that is his job.

In any case Clarkson is grossly overrated. He is like jellied eels or warm beer etc., Brits love em but cant remember why.

Why do you insist that Murray isnt allowed have a public opinion of the referendum? If you believe strongly about something it is your right to speak out about it.

This is a real all-sorts thread.

Scottish rugby, football. Surly tennis players who are nice. Nice Clarksons who are asswholes. Scottish Independence and Save the Union.

A nice mix That's the Six Nations.

Gunsgerms true. I guess if Clarkson started insulting something important to me then yes I wouldn't find his controversial standpoint amusing.

You say Clarkson is overrated - to me it sounds like you don't understand why Clarkson is so popular. Irrelevant whether you like him or not.

Murray is entitled to his opinion but he has to accept that if he says certain things in a certain manner then he has to take the conseqeunces.

Equally Clarkson punched that man and now has to face the consequences.

You are right it's not Murray's job to be entertaining but if he wants to maximise revenue,attract sponsors, have more fans and generally be portrayed more favourably then he has to put in the work.

beshocked wrote:Gunsgerms true. I guess if Clarkson started insulting something important to me then yes I wouldn't find his controversial standpoint amusing.

You say Clarkson is overrated - to me it sounds like you don't understand why Clarkson is so popular. Irrelevant whether you like him or not.

Murray is entitled to his opinion but he has to accept that if he says certain things in a certain manner then he has to take the conseqeunces.

Equally Clarkson punched that man and now has to face the consequences.

You are right it's not Murray's job to be entertaining but if he wants to maximise revenue,attract sponsors, have more fans and generally be portrayed more favourably then he has to put in the work.

I think the strength of the show is in the wacky and creative adventures the three protagonists go on are quite fun and interesting to follow and how three fairly unlikely friends and quite different characters engage with eachother. The show can be fun particularly in the way they routinely prank eachother. Thats why I think it works its his laddish behaviour that is so popular that the viewership appreciates so much.

I think he is over rated because the strength of the show is how all three guys engage with eachother rather than anything Clarkson does by himself.

Clarkson's "eenie meenie miney moe" or slope jokes add nothing to the show and just reveal him to be the spoiled  to$$er that he is.

I also agree with Steve Coogan that Hammond spends most of his time up Clarkson's hole and it can be quite painful to watch. James May is probably the most interesting character for me.

Why do you think he is so popular?

beshocked wrote:Gunsgerms true. I guess if Clarkson started insulting something important to me then yes I wouldn't find his controversial standpoint amusing.

You say Clarkson is overrated - to me it sounds like you don't understand why Clarkson is so popular.

Neither do I.  The man for some reason has gotten away with some very insulting remarks directed at people and customs and cultures from virtually every corner of the globe.  

Now some might put that down to 'the act' - he's acting the part of this gruff, opinionated, uncouth, boorish Union Jack motorhead fellow.  Now that might actually be quite funny, and obviously has been to his large fanbase around the globe, but I don't think it was ever an act.  

Yet, because it's covered up as some kind of 'act' he then gets away with saying many things that sports commentators couldn't say (and were dropped for saying them) that footballers couldn't say, that politicians couldn't say, that ordinary people not in the spotlight can't say...................... indeed, he has often gotten away with saying things that get people banned here!!!
But because it's old 1970s cuddly giant Clarkie being his 'funny' self, there should be no offence taken.  'Just accept that he's playing an Alf Garnett character.  Don't take yourselves so seriously you foreign heathens.'

BTW... I wouldn't be one calling for him to be banned, just for more people to say to his face what he actually is. He ain't an act, he's Jeremy Clarkson.

Clarkson is a dangerous racist sycophantic bigot - A true Thatcher's child in all his glory. He'll move on to any even better paid job and continue his bigotry and insults elsewhere whilst sucking up to the good and the great - Welcome to the UK and its democratic process.

Dave Denton - "We can still lift World Cup"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/32005644



Why are the SRU putting out these press releases? All it does is make a mockery of Scottish Rugby.

And all this "we're good for 20 minutes but need to do that for 80 minutes" - what's that about, seriously! Only a matter of months ago they had a great Autumn series, pushing NZ hard.

Why not be honest? "We're not good enough and have a lot to work on. We're taking the World Cup one game at a time".

RubyGuby wrote:Clarkson is a dangerous racist sycophantic bigot - A true Thatcher's child in all his glory. He'll move on to any even better paid job and continue his bigotry and insults elsewhere whilst sucking up to the good and the great - Welcome to the UK and its democratic process.

Who are the "good and the great" ? Oh you mean establishment wenkers !

GunsGerms wrote:

beshocked wrote:Murray is probably a nicer person than Clarkson but I know who I'd rather watch on TV - Clarkson every day of the week.  I am sure away from the cameras, Murray is a good guy but his public image isn't great.

Clarkson has made a career on saying what he thinks and mostly getting away with it - it's only now that he's punched someone which has got him in trouble.

Clarkson has made himself the poster boy of the non pc brigade whether you agree with him or not.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/andy-murray-says-11th-hour-scottish-independence-tweet-backing-yes-campaign-is-not-something-he-would-do-again-9750970.html#

Not ambiguous. Murray made it clear who he was supporting.

The strange thing about Clarkson is even though as you call Clarkson xenophobic and bigoted which he probably is - people outside the UK do like him. Probably more popular than Murray.

Saying what you think is fine if you can back it up with some quirkiness and charisma - Murray lacks that.

Well if Clarkson was anything other than English and as bigoted and insulting towards England as his towards everywhere else you surely wouldnt like him as much as you do. Also he has years experience on TV so you would expect he would be more watchable than Murray because that is his job.

In any case Clarkson is grossly overrated. He is like jellied eels or warm beer etc., Brits love em but cant remember why.

Why do you insist that Murray isnt allowed have a public opinion of the referendum? If you believe strongly about something it is your right to speak out about it.

Because politics and sport should not mix.

Course it should!

Nematode wrote:Dave Denton - "We can still lift World Cup"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/32005644



Why are the SRU putting out these press releases? All it does is make a mockery of Scottish Rugby.

And all this "we're good for 20 minutes but need to do that for 80 minutes" - what's that about, seriously! Only a matter of months ago they had a great Autumn series, pushing NZ hard.  

Why not be honest? "We're not good enough and have a lot to work on. We're taking the World Cup one game at a time".

The Scottish players need to believe they can win the world cup no matter how unlikely it is.

Of course there's more chance of Arnie becoming US president, Jeremy Clarkson becoming Prime Minister or Salmond and Sturgeon getting married and having little fish together than Scotland winning the RWC but you got to believe.  



Scotland do have the potential to be better than they are -they have a very accomplished 15 in Hogg, the two Grays should be able to give them a great engine room.

Biggest issue with Scotland in my opinion are the backrow and the halfbacks. Probably the worst backrow in the 6 nations. Yes it's worse than Italy who can call on the services of Parisse.

Halfbacks are only marginally better than Italy who are famed for their shoddy halfbacks. Russell is praised for his attacking play but he cannot control a game. He makes a headless chicken look assured. Laidlaw lacks the leadership that this Scottish side are badly missing too.

Cotter needs to sort these out before the RWC if Scotland want to stand a chance.