Is this the start of the new dawn for Welsh rugby

After seeing players start to commit to DC and players coming back to Wales on DC, then the in-fighting stopping, I have just read this on Ospreys website:-

The Joint Supporters Groups (Cardiff Blues Supporters Club, Friends of Newport Rugby Trust, Ospreys Supporters Club and Crys16 The Scarlets Supporters Trust) are happy and encouraged to confirm that the Welsh Rugby Union Chairman Gareth Davies and Professional Rugby Wales Chief Executive Mark Davies have invited us to a meeting on Saturday 25th April prior to Judgement Day III at the Millennium Stadium.

The Joint Supporters Groups have previously had several meetings with Professional Rugby Wales (formally Regional Rugby Wales) and one meeting with the Welsh Rugby Union and the aim of the meeting is to revive the relationship between the WRU and Supporters Groups. 

In a ground-breaking meeting this will be the first time that the Joint Supporters Groups, Professional Rugby Wales and the Welsh Rugby Union have jointly met and we hope that this will be the first of many meetings with and a long standing relationship.

We will update our members and supporters in due course and in the meantime hope for a great occasion at Judgement Day III.

I have also found this :-

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugb ... th-9121643

Is this the first signs of change for Welsh rugby ?

Oh I wonder what the Supporters Groups said??????

Hope for your sake you are right. For all the bickering we all want rugby to be healthy throughout the British Isles and beyond

Can't help thinking of this tho..

We'll be fighting in the streets
With our children at our feet
And the morals that they worship will be gone
And the men who spurred us on
Sit in judgement of all wrong
They decide and the shotgun sings the song

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again

The change, it had to come
We knew it all along
We were liberated from the fold, that's all
And the world looks just the same
And history ain't changed
'Cause the banners, they are flown in the next war

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
No, no!

I'll move myself and my family aside
If we happen to be left half alive
I'll get all my papers and smile at the sky
Though I know that the hypnotized never lie
Do ya?

There's nothing in the streets
Looks any different to me
And the slogans are replaced, by-the-bye
And the parting on the left
Are now parting on the right
And the beards have all grown longer overnight

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
Don't get fooled again
No, no!

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss

Ah, CSI.

While I'm wary of (another) false dawn, this is the most positive I've been about regional rugby for a while...

If all levels can now work together to promote the regional game we should both filter downwards to grass roots and give team wales stability.

Generally like the tone/intention of Gareth Davies' new ideas, Lewseys proposals for schools, NDC, judgement day success..

Hoping the WRU and regions have a plan on how to take advantage of the RWC.. it's the nearest thing we'll have to a home RWC for the near future and we need to use it as a game changer to get all levels back excited about the game again.

Still a ton to do, and with French and English money some serious challenges. But optimistic for the first time in a while...

Welsh Rugby....seemingly more cohesive? and working together? I wonder what's changed.

Oh yeah...

gcBlues wrote:Welsh Rugby....seemingly more cohesive? and working together? I wonder what's changed.

Oh yeah...

He hasn't gone yet boi bach.

Is it fair to blame all of this mess on one man?

Not that I'm his biggest fan..

Draigoch wrote:Is it fair to blame all of this mess on one man?

Not that I'm his biggest fan..

No you are right Draig, the regions are not blameless in all this either, and I will get a lot of flak on here for saying this, but if you ask me the regions or the people running them are more to blame than the one man. Look, I understand what hardship the backers of the regions have been through and how much of their own money they have put in, but if I were in charge of the WRU and these people were asking me for more money, I would look at how they run their ships and think, no way.

Also, and I know this first hand, there is still a lot of animosity towards the regions from the clubs within their catchment area's. They see the regions as entities that are starving their clubs of funding and players, and the same argument the regions have with the WRU, the clubs are having the exact same arguments with the regional teams. There needs to be the same two way communications and friendships between the clubs and the regions, as the regions want with the WRU. But at times, when you are at your local club, the general consensus you get is, that the regions could not give two hoots about the clubs in their area. There needs to be wholesale changes, not just by the WRU, but by the regions and clubs as well, otherwise we will be back to where we started.

Dowlais, the regions were forbidden by Roger Lewis from engaging more with their clubs.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Dowlais, the regions were forbidden by Roger Lewis from engaging more with their clubs.

Yes I know this, it was a case of divide and conquer by him, he has a lot of blame landing at his feet, but at the same time, and this is the consensus that I get from my local club, is that the regions were only out for themselves, the clubs did not get hardly any funding from the WRU because they had to give it all to the regions, also, any decent young players the clubs were getting were going to the academies and were not allowed to play rugby with their friends at the club anymore, unlike the old district days, as I said though, things like this need to be smoothed out for the good of our game, and by the looks of it, it seems to be happening.

Pretty much agree with everything you've said Dowlais. Everyone just needed their heads knocked together to realise we all want the same thing really

Having said that I think you want an element of competition and tension between the regions and union, it drives performance. I think part of the problem is that the people involved don't approach it a 100% professionally, and like us, get emotional about the game. When that happens it can lead to not making the hard decisions

I think Roger had to go, as a symbol of a broken system and I'm hoping at admin level the old guard now is washed out and replaced with sound business minds.

This wont be popular, but I suspect some of Rogers aggressive financial management and pushing of team wales as the cash cow might have given us some resource to actually grow the game.

Like it or not, the national team is how most of the country connects with rugby. With that actually delivering (or at least better than before..)

Posted a bit early there....


... we now have a base to push the regions. If i was on the board I'd also be looking at how much cash we could raise against the stadium. Nothing risky, but in this time of cheap debt its idiocy to have an asset sitting there ans have no cash to invest in other levels of the game

Using wasps as a benchmark

Our cashflows must be more stable than theirs (given theirs is league dependent and dependant on europe and we have regular games with stable attendance) so we should get a lower rate than c6%

With the stadium worth c200m (guess?) there's no reason we cant raise maybe 50m. Imagine plowing that into clubs and grassroots at the same time there's a RWC !!

Draigoch wrote:Posted a bit early there....


... we now have a base to push the regions. If i was on the board I'd also be looking at how much cash we could raise against the stadium. Nothing risky, but in this time of cheap debt its idiocy to have an asset sitting there ans have no cash to invest in other levels of the game

I bet we could sell the naming rights for a few million samolians.

BT offered a naming deal, apparently. Our Dear Leader turned them down. The SRU weren't so stupid when BT made them a naming deal for Murrayfield.

thats something thats never sit quite right with me, but you're right.. be crazy to not look at it

The Admiral Stadium, the Brains Bowl?

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:BT offered a naming deal, apparently. Our Dear Leader turned them down.

Why does this not surprise me, why would he not take advantage of getting extra money.

Lets be honest, the MS is a world re-known stadium, everybody has heard of it. It has hosted countless finals, I bet you could rake in quite a lot of money by letting somebody put their name on it.

LordDowlais wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Dowlais, the regions were forbidden by Roger Lewis from engaging more with their clubs.

Yes I know this, it was a case of divide and conquer by him, he has a lot of blame landing at his feet, but at the same time, and this is the consensus that I get from my local club, is that the regions were only out for themselves, the clubs did not get hardly any funding from the WRU because they had to give it all to the regions, also, any decent young players the clubs were getting were going to the academies and were not allowed to play rugby with their friends at the club anymore, unlike the old district days, as I said though, things like this need to be smoothed out for the good of our game, and by the looks of it, it seems to be happening.

Lord, if your local club is Dowlais you are absolutely right, because they are supposed to be in the Blues region, yet their Junior section was the guard of honour at one of our home games before Christmas as I posted on here, as I've also said a number of times on here before there are 2 car loads of people from Merthyr that are ST holders and travel to many of our AWAY fixtures especially in the European competitions over MANY years.
Yes the Regions have made mistakes, yet the fundamental flaws in Welsh Rugby is down to the incompetence within the WRU, and the PWC report that asked for a change in the governance by the WRU was that the numbers on the WRU should be altered in that there should be a REDUCTION in the numbers and there should be more Executive people, what they have done is that there are going to be these extras ON TOP of the existing board, NOT what the authors of the report suggested.
It is moving in the right direction, lets just see who we get as the new CEO, before we go overboard here.

Ah wayne, just the man. Do me a favour, pop onto the Ospreys V Glasgow thread, Draigoch is asking about Opsreys themed information, you are our resident Ospreys expert, I wonder if you can answer him ?

P.S Cefn Coed is my local club, but I do go to Dowlais, and I know the people who love Ospreys, and you are right, lets not get too ahead of ourselves.

We can firmly blame the one man for the mess this is in. If you were being made to (forced, essentially) sign an agreement which purposely restricted your funding to a level agreed in 2008 you would naturaly resist. Trying to work with someone whose only focus is control will always be difficult, especially when this man has friends in influencial places at BBC Wales and WalesOnline which he can use to spout his agenda. Remember, this was the guy who at one point gave an interview on ScrumV saying if the regions did not sign the agreement they would not exist and then 3 weeks later produces a press release which states the WRU does not discuss the matters of the signing process in the media.

You try and grow support and links with people and clubs in the region but get told not to by this one man as its WRU territory. These people feel 'disenfranchised' and claim the regions aren't doing enough to engage with them, even though it was the union who told them not to.

You also have a man who, in cahoots with his lap dog Pickering, has almost destroyed the amateur game with ridiculous league reforms aimed at getting the clubs support. Now you have lopsided leagues with teams getting hammered because they're playing a local club who were either a division or 2 divisions above them previously.

This is also the same man who got turned down by BT when he asked for too much for the naming rights of the MS.

The regions and community game get told there is little money available for increased funding but the national team get whatever they want on a consistant basis at the same time.

This is a man whose sole focus was national team success to shower himself in glory while systematically trying to destroy the professional game in Wales and control the community game, both of which are the bodies who elect people to the WRU Board.

So yes, we can solely blame this Muppet and it is hilarious to see how marginalised this parasite has become. Read Gareth Davies' interview with the Sunday Times when he rips him to shreds in such a way you know Roger hates it.

“We have to make sure that we don’t just have a fan who wants to be in the job for the wrong reasons because it has a profile or whatever.

“There’s a job that needs to be done – to help maintain the national team supporting Warren Gatland, really developing the regions to underpin the national team and fostering the community game.

“I do question whether we have had those three joined up.”

Ouch.

gcBlues wrote:Read Gareth Davies' interview with the Sunday Times when he rips him to shreds in such a way you know Roger hates it.

“We have to make sure that we don’t just have a fan who wants to be in the job for the wrong reasons because it has a profile or whatever.

“There’s a job that needs to be done – to help maintain the national team supporting Warren Gatland, really developing the regions to underpin the national team and fostering the community game.

“I do question whether we have had those three joined up.”

Ouch.

That is superb.

LordDowlais wrote:Lets be honest, the MS is a world re-known stadium, everybody has heard of it. It has hosted countless finals, I bet you could rake in quite a lot of money by letting somebody put their name on it.

?

gcBlues wrote:We can firmly blame the one man for the mess this is in. If you were being made to (forced, essentially) sign an agreement which purposely restricted your funding to a level agreed in 2008 you would naturaly resist. Trying to work with someone whose only focus is control will always be difficult, especially when this man has friends in influencial places at BBC Wales and WalesOnline which he can use to spout his agenda. Remember, this was the guy who at one point gave an interview on ScrumV saying if the regions did not sign the agreement they would not exist and then 3 weeks later produces a press release which states the WRU does not discuss the matters of the signing process in the media.

You try and grow support and links with people and clubs in the region but get told not to by this one man as its WRU territory. These people feel 'disenfranchised' and claim the regions aren't doing enough to engage with them, even though it was the union who told them not to.

You also have a man who, in cahoots with his lap dog Pickering, has almost destroyed the amateur game with ridiculous league reforms aimed at getting the clubs support. Now you have lopsided leagues with teams getting hammered because they're playing a local club who were either a division or 2 divisions above them previously.

This is also the same man who got turned down by BT when he asked for too much for the naming rights of the MS.

The regions and community game get told there is little money available for increased funding but the national team get whatever they want on a consistant basis at the same time.

This is a man whose sole focus was national team success to shower himself in glory while systematically trying to destroy the professional game in Wales and control the community game, both of which are the bodies who elect people to the WRU Board.

So yes, we can solely blame this Muppet and it is hilarious to see how marginalised this parasite has become. Read Gareth Davies' interview with the Sunday Times when he rips him to shreds in such a way you know Roger hates it.

“We have to make sure that we don’t just have a fan who wants to be in the job for the wrong reasons because it has a profile or whatever.

“There’s a job that needs to be done – to help maintain the national team supporting Warren Gatland, really developing the regions to underpin the national team and fostering the community game.

“I do question whether we have had those three joined up.”

Ouch.

GC, excellent post, the only problem is all that you've said has been posted on here many times and is in the Public Domain and I bet it will ALL have to be repeated in under a year for some idiot.

One man can't do that much damage on his own, he needs exec, club and union vote backing.

He's been there for more than a few years as well, so it took some time for people to turn against him. I'm not trying to defend anyone here, just to say its a mess accross yhe board - the regions arent exactly harvard business case studies in effective management either.

The good news is that its done now, and hopefully we can all levels of the game up to standard

The Saint wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Lets be honest, the MS is a world re-known stadium, everybody has heard of it. It has hosted countless finals, I bet you could rake in quite a lot of money by letting somebody put their name on it.

?

As in, the world's remembered about it.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

gcBlues wrote:Read Gareth Davies' interview with the Sunday Times when he rips him to shreds in such a way you know Roger hates it.

“We have to make sure that we don’t just have a fan who wants to be in the job for the wrong reasons because it has a profile or whatever.

“There’s a job that needs to be done – to help maintain the national team supporting Warren Gatland, really developing the regions to underpin the national team and fostering the community game.

“I do question whether we have had those three joined up.”

Ouch.

That is superb.

Of course, the time for talk is now over Gareth.  Time for action is close at hand.  It's always easy to be the 'Opposition Leader' throwing the insults across the floor at the Prime Minister.  Tougher to be the Prime Minister and take the flak for decisions made.

But it seems Gareth doesn't want that responsibility himself either?  
Delegation, Delegation.  
Delegation, that's what you need.  
If you want to be the best.  
If you want to beat the rest,
Delegation's what you need.

Chairman. Nice one, Gareth.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

The Saint wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Lets be honest, the MS is a world re-known stadium, everybody has heard of it. It has hosted countless finals, I bet you could rake in quite a lot of money by letting somebody put their name on it.

?

As in, the world's remembered about it.

Renowned then. It's just I didn't expect this from somebody who points out a typo.

The Saint wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

The Saint wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Lets be honest, the MS is a world re-known stadium, everybody has heard of it. It has hosted countless finals, I bet you could rake in quite a lot of money by letting somebody put their name on it.

?

As in, the world's remembered about it.

Renowned then. It's just I didn't expect this from somebody who points out a typo.

I should have put a at the end of my post...

Yis are all fools though. Lord of course means that the Millennium Stadium is back from an inter-continuum time dilation vortex and is thus technically now in a 'Re-known' state for about six months...until it cools down.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

The Saint wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

The Saint wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Lets be honest, the MS is a world re-known stadium, everybody has heard of it. It has hosted countless finals, I bet you could rake in quite a lot of money by letting somebody put their name on it.

?

As in, the world's remembered about it.

Renowned then. It's just I didn't expect this from somebody who points out a typo.

I should have put a at the end of my post...

Just like Pontypridd are a Rhondda re-known team then

Gareth Davies's first serious move..

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/business-news/wru-appoints-first-woman-board-9143119

2 new board members, with serious experience. First independent NEDs we've had?

Great news

Sarky gits.

Draigoch wrote:Gareth Davies's first serious move..

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/business-news/wru-appoints-first-woman-board-9143119

2 new board members, with serious experience. First independent NEDs we've had?

Great news

Top people. Top news.

Gareth Davies is going to be a revelation.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

gcBlues wrote:Read Gareth Davies' interview with the Sunday Times when he rips him to shreds in such a way you know Roger hates it.

“We have to make sure that we don’t just have a fan who wants to be in the job for the wrong reasons because it has a profile or whatever.

“There’s a job that needs to be done – to help maintain the national team supporting Warren Gatland, really developing the regions to underpin the national team and fostering the community game.

“I do question whether we have had those three joined up.”

Ouch.

That is superb.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Draigoch wrote:Gareth Davies's first serious move..

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/business-news/wru-appoints-first-woman-board-9143119

2 new board members, with serious experience. First independent NEDs we've had?

Great news

Top people. Top news.

Gareth Davies is going to be a revelation.

SecretFly wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

gcBlues wrote:Read Gareth Davies' interview with the Sunday Times when he rips him to shreds in such a way you know Roger hates it.

“We have to make sure that we don’t just have a fan who wants to be in the job for the wrong reasons because it has a profile or whatever.

“There’s a job that needs to be done – to help maintain the national team supporting Warren Gatland, really developing the regions to underpin the national team and fostering the community game.

“I do question whether we have had those three joined up.”

Ouch.

That is superb.

Of course, the time for talk is now over Gareth. Time for action is close at hand. It's always easy to be the 'Opposition Leader' throwing the insults across the floor at the Prime Minister. Tougher to be the Prime Minister and take the flak for decisions made.

But it seems Gareth doesn't want that responsibility himself either?
Delegation, Delegation.
Delegation, that's what you need.
If you want to be the best.
If you want to beat the rest,
Delegation's what you need.

Chairman. Nice one, Gareth.

The reason the parasite is taking flak is because he's taken decisions that never needed to be taken and were done to stroke one's ego and become a direct detriment to the professional and community game in Wales.

But you need to know that the Chief Executive does not lead the WRU, he answers to the Chairman. The Chairman is the be all and end all of Welsh Rugby and the previous one just went along with Roger because he liked all the perks and good headlines he got. We now have a Chairman who is serious about restoring the game in Wales and the first thing he's done is get rid of the guy who is the serious problem

To stick himself as CE would bring cries of in-house dealing and that is not what we need right now and he knows it. He has got rid of the CE and is now going about reconstructing the board in to a more professional unit, rather than the group of retired teachers it has been for the past 20 years.

In a way yes the Chairman is the top dog

However his remit is to ensure good governance and agree long term strategy. He shouldnt be involved in the day to day, thats the CEOs job.

All Ive seen from Gareth suggests he's perfect for his current role. Who we need now is someone of equal calibre in the CEO job

gcBlues, he'll still leave himself wiggle room in who to blame if it doesn't all go according to plan.  The CEO will get the first bullet.  And if the masses are placated by that then Davies lives to fight another day because he'll have people mutter 'isn't it great we now have Davies to get rid of non-performers'.

Well yes, it might be so.  But Davies remains the 'good guy' even though he's directing any potential 'bad boy' of the future.

gcBlues wrote:

The reason the parasite is taking flak is because he's taken decisions that never needed to be taken and were done to stroke one's ego and become a direct detriment to the professional and community game in Wales.

But you need to know that the Chief Executive does not lead the WRU, he answers to the Chairman. The Chairman is the be all and end all of Welsh Rugby and the previous one just went along with Roger because he liked all the perks and good headlines he got. We now have a Chairman who is serious about restoring the game in Wales and the first thing he's done is get rid of the guy who is the serious problem

To stick himself as CE would bring cries of in-house dealing and that is not what we need right now and he knows it. He has got rid of the CE and is now going about reconstructing the board in to a more professional unit, rather than the group of retired teachers it has been for the past 20 years.

Great post.

SecretFly wrote:gcBlues, he'll still leave himself wiggle room in who to blame if it doesn't all go according to plan.  The CEO will get the first bullet.  And if the masses are placated by that then Davies lives to fight another day because he'll have people mutter 'isn't it great we now have Davies to get rid of non-performers'.

Well yes, it might be so.  But Davies remains the 'good guy' even though he's directing any potential 'bad boy' of the future.

Davies reminds me of John Delaney of the FAI. He first of all became a blazer (treasurer of the FAI), he then disposed of a couple of CEOs. Guess who is the CEO now - John Delaney And boy does he run the FAI entirely for his own benefit. The guy earns more than the Taoiseach (Irish Prime Minister).

In what way does Davies remind you of John Delaney?

HammerofThunor wrote:In what way does Davies remind you of John Delaney?

The way both of them seized power (when there was trouble within the organisation). The WRU & FAI would both have had weak boards of directors with a load of freeloaders. The witch hunt of Fran Rooney (who was ceo of the FAI) is worth reading up about. Similar to the witch hunt of Lewis. If Davies truly had the interests of Welsh rugby at heart he would not be getting rid of his CEO. I think its wrong as well considering his professional background of working for one of the regions.

Sin é wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:In what way does Davies remind you of John Delaney?

The way both of them seized power (when there was trouble within the organisation). The WRU & FAI would both have had weak boards of directors with a load of freeloaders. The witch hunt of Fran Rooney (who was ceo of the FAI) is worth reading up about. Similar to the witch hunt of Lewis. If Davies truly had the interests of Welsh rugby at heart he would not be getting rid of his CEO. I think its wrong as well considering his professional background of working for one of the regions.

I believe Davies was nominated, as opposed to seizing power.

Delaney was also nominated and elected as well.

The problem is that with a weak board, Davies will do what he likes. There are huge flaws in the makeup of the WRU Board - i.e., the chairman gets financially rewarded and there is no time limit on how long he serves.

For the IRFU, the President/Chairman is honorary (no payments) and it is only for One year.

edit: The GAA (the best run sporting organisation in the world) has an elected President for 2 years who takes leave of absence from their job. They continue to draw their salary from their job and the GAA reimburses the employer - so, if the President of the GAA is a mechanic that is what he will get paid for, if he is a doctor, he will get doctor's rates.

Lewis has announced he wants to move on himself hasn't he? Where does the "removed" come from.
For me I believe he realises he has lost his total control and therefore his ability to further his own personal agenda and as a result has decided to seek a new realm to dominate.

2ndtimeround wrote:Lewis has announced he wants to move on himself hasn't he? Where does the "removed" come from.
For me I believe he realises he has lost his total control and therefore his ability to further his own personal agenda and as a result has decided to seek a new realm to dominate.

Yes. He is being allowed to stay though until after the Rugby World Cup.

On the old tinernet, Roger leaving the WRU seems to be viewed as some sort of victory for the plain people of Wales

Sin é wrote:

2ndtimeround wrote:Lewis has announced he wants to move on himself hasn't he? Where does the "removed" come from.
For me I believe he realises he has lost his total control and therefore his ability to further his own personal agenda and as a result has decided to seek a new realm to dominate.

Yes. He is being allowed to stay though until after the Rugby World Cup.

On the old tinernet, Roger leaving the WRU seems to be viewed as some sort of victory for the plain people of Wales

Well, he was a business type charged with turning round the financials, but got himself mixed up in the grassroots somehow. Never should have been allowed to meddle in the rugby side, IMO.