Leicester Tigers vs Northampton Saints, 16th May

 

Saturday 16th May
KO: 15:30
TV: BT sports 1


Officials:
Referee: Matthew Carley (31st Premiership game).
Assistant Referees: Tim Wigglesworth and Peter Huckle.
TMO: Rowan Kitt.



Teams:

Leicester: TBC



Northampton: TBC



Recent History

31/1/15 Leicester 17 – Northampton 8  LV
In front of a capacity crowd a variety of second, third and even 4th choice players showed their senior counterparts how to behave. Straightforward win for Tigers.

20/12/14 Northampton 21 – Leicester 19  AP
Late Jamie Elliot try gives 14 man Saints a deserved win. Thre tries apiece Saints had to play for 3/4s game one man down after red card for skipper Hartley. Tom Croft received Yellow at the end of the first half.

16/5/14 Northampton 21 – Leicester 20 AP Semi
Tom Wood’s try with one minute to go gave Saints the lead for the first time in the game. An enthralling game that saw Ma’afu for Saints seeing red, and Tom Youngs yellow, following a clash. YCs also issued to Bowden and Goneva.

29/3/14 Northampton 16 – Leicester 22 AP
Ben Youngs and Niki Goneva both saw yellow as Tigers hung on grimly to take their unbeaten run to 10 against their neighbours. Huge controversy at the end of the game. Had Manu thrown the ball away? Was time up? Had a Leicester physio deliberately prevented a quick throw? Needless to say Mallinder was not happy.

5/10/13 Leicester 19 – Northampton 19 AP
Dylan Hartley made his first appearance for Saints following suspension. Burrell was sinbinned for a high, no-arms tackle on Allen, but for 70 minutes Saints were the better team. Trailing by 10 points with 10 minutes to go, tigers burst into life and were camped on the Saints line. Deacon and Lawes carded following a confrontation just before Ed Slater crashed over with 4 minutes to go. Saints just held one, repelling a series of 5m scrums.

25/5/13 Leicester 37 – Northampton 17 AP Final
Well this game had drama. Tigers scoring a try inside a couple of minutes. Flood removed with concussion following two challenges from Lawes that pushed the boundaries of legality to the limits. Cockers losing his rag. Hartley repeatedly warned by ref for how he was talking to him  It was all bubbling up until right at the end of the first half. Myler did not know the laws and was unable to understand Barnes accent. Hartley called someone a “f***ing cheat” and was issued red. Game over, Lions chance gone.

30/3/13 Northampton 8 – Leicester 36 AP
Little real dram in this game. A quiet first half was followed by a demolition as tigers ran in four second half tries.

3/11/12 Leicester 16 – Northampton 12 AP
With both sides missing plenty of players on England duty we had a quiet game.

14/4/12 Northampton 21 – Leicester 35 AP
25 points from Toby Flood helped Leicester, who earlier in the season had occupied bottom spot in the table, secure their 5th TBP win in a row and move to second in the table.

16/3/12 Leicester 26 – Northampton 14 LV final
The day Rob Hawkins elbow met Calum Clark.

3/12/11 Leicester 30 – Northampton 25 AP
The day Ashton dragged Alessana Tuilagi from the pitch by his hair and sparked a mass brawl. Tuilagi and Wood given red, Ashton later cited and banned for 6 weeks.

14/5/11 Leicester 11 – Northampton 3 AP Semi
The day Ashton survived a barrage of punches from Manu. (ps all started by a rabbit punch from Ashton)

In the last 10 years there has been

Games: 27 (Saints 9) (Tigers 17) (Draws: 1)
Red Cards: 5 (Saints 4, Tigers 1)
Yellow Cards: 33 (Saints 12) (Tigers 21)

Can't wait. Love a Midlands derby. We're all pumped up after the Wasps win and they should be fresh after crushing LW. Sold out WR in full voice. Wish I was there and and not watching it on TV whilst working.

The games are spicy affairs. It will take a brave DOR to select the likes of Hartley for this one.

Welly wrote: In the last 10 years there has been

Games: 27            (Saints 9) (Tigers 17) (Draws: 1)
Red Cards: 5          (Saints 4, Tigers 1)
Yellow Cards: 33     (Saints 12) (Tigers 21)

So Tigers are cheaters and Saints are thugs?

Should be cracker.

Whoever survives should have a lot to cheer about...all one of him, with his arm in a sling and bandaged up eyes.

Listen up, you Tigers supporters.  I don't want any of your boys to hurt any of mine.  I don't care about this match (unless we win).  I want an unscathed Saints team to emerge from this encounter with you ruffians from up the road so we are in position to rampage through the next two matches.  

I have a conundrum, especially since the match means nothing to Saints except the opportunity for injury:  Frankly, I prefer to see you lot in the playoffs with us (for later beatings) than some others (names omitted).  But I can't ever pull for my team to lose.  Even if I could intellectualise the notion, it is contravenes my Deoxyribonucleic Acid.  So I will simply ignore the match and go out and play some Rugby rather than sit at home and watch.  Besides, it is my club's end of season on Saturday, my left knee is a shambles, I am in constant pain, and I fear the withdrawal symptoms of the end of the season.  Besides I heard a rumour there might be a few adult beverages to be found pitch side post game.

It's a real shame that there's nothing in it for Saints tbh. When the fixture was announced I thought for sure that it would be crucial to both teams for playoff/home playoff places and we'd be seeing both teams at their peak going at it. Then Saints had to go and do so well that they can have a week off, spoiling it for all of us.

Whatever happens I'm content as a Leicester fan. This is the worst I've seen them play and even top 6 seemed unlikely early on. Cohesion and basic skills have been lacking for most of the time, but the effort was always there, and that's all we can really ask for as fans. Saints can have this one but next year won't be so easy

Great thread LT! Who are the team reps this week?

This is usually one of the best games of the season, so it's strange to see how flat the fans are about it.

I haven't kept up with St Georgie of North and his ongoing concussion issues. What stage is he at with this?

George Carlin wrote:Who are the team reps this week?

Parminder Nagra of "Bend it Like Beckham" and "ER" fame for Leicester, and the much younger Sophie Turner aka Sansa Stark for Northampton.

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:It's a real shame that there's nothing in it for Saints tbh. When the fixture was announced I thought for sure that it would be crucial to both teams for playoff/home playoff places and we'd be seeing both teams at their peak going at it. Then Saints had to go and do so well that they can have a week off, spoiling it for all of us.

Whatever happens I'm content as a Leicester fan. This is the worst I've seen them play and even top 6 seemed unlikely early on. Cohesion and basic skills have been lacking for most of the time, but the effort was always there, and that's all we can really ask for as fans. Saints can have this one but next year won't be so easy

It would have been fun if this match meant something for both sides. But since it doesn't, I am glad this is one of the few times the pendulum has swung in our direction. A few months ago I had made some tentative plans with my olde man to come home and see the match together. Now we agreed to wait and see if we make it to Final.

For some reason, it always seems that no matter how poorly Tigers play, they still find a way to make it to the playoffs. Unbelievable tenacity and sheer doggedness.

doctor_grey wrote:

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:It's a real shame that there's nothing in it for Saints tbh. When the fixture was announced I thought for sure that it would be crucial to both teams for playoff/home playoff places and we'd be seeing both teams at their peak going at it. Then Saints had to go and do so well that they can have a week off, spoiling it for all of us.

Whatever happens I'm content as a Leicester fan. This is the worst I've seen them play and even top 6 seemed unlikely early on. Cohesion and basic skills have been lacking for most of the time, but the effort was always there, and that's all we can really ask for as fans. Saints can have this one but next year won't be so easy

It would have been fun if this match meant something for both sides.  But since it doesn't, I am glad this is one of the few times the pendulum has swung in our direction.  A few months ago I had made some tentative plans with my olde man to come home and see the match together.  Now we agreed to wait and see if we make it to Final.  

For some reason, it always seems that no matter how poorly Tigers play, they still find a way to make it to the playoffs.  Unbelievable tenacity and sheer doggedness.  

You're joking right? Tigers have everything to play for.

But he said both sides ...

Heaf wrote:But he said both sides ...

He did. I am corrected. Sorry Doc.

George North "symptom free" and undergoing a two week return to play protocol. Hopes to play at some point before end of season.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/wales/11598793/Symptom-free-George-North-raring-to-go-for-Northampton-Saints-and-Wales-after-concussion-fears.html

I think he should hang in there on the sidelines now until the WC and the new season.

Nobody would gain anything from pushing him into any highly charged end of season games. Considering how Brown is getting along, I think all rugby observers want all these guys to come back absolutely in the best condition they can be in - mostly for their own sake into a healthy future of middle/old age.

LondonTiger wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Who are the team reps this week?

Parminder Nagra of "Bend it Like Beckham" and "ER" fame for Leicester, and the much younger Sophie Turner aka Sansa Stark for Northampton.

Nice. If my wife isn't standing nearby, then I very much approve. If she is, then obviously I cannot understand posters adding pictures of girls to rugby thread, etc.

George Carlin wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Who are the team reps this week?

Parminder Nagra of "Bend it Like Beckham" and "ER" fame for Leicester, and the much younger Sophie Turner aka Sansa Stark for Northampton.

Nice. If my wife isn't standing nearby, then I very much approve. If she is, then obviously I cannot understand posters adding pictures of girls to rugby thread, etc.

I'll tell the girls you approve, I can't do it right now, because they're both upstairs recuperating.

Whilst I agree with you SF I doubt Saints are pleased with how the WRU treated North nor about the several comments made by Gatland and ex internationals about him no being rested until the WC. Their medical guys have him in a program and if that program says he can play in the big games I can see them throwing him in. Not this weekend but maybe on the bench for the semi.

Will Saints put out a full side for a game that means nothing to them, other than the chance to put one over Tigers (always a worthwhile exercise).

If they put out a weakend side, will this give Tigers enough confidence to come to FG believing they can win?

Who knows? Not me, but I cannot wait to find out.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Will Saints put out a full side for a game that means nothing to them, other than the chance to put one over Tigers (always a worthwhile exercise).

If they put out a weakend side, will this give Tigers enough confidence to come to FG believing they can win?

Who knows? Not me, but I cannot wait to find out.

If tigers win they go to bath not FG.

In fact out of all the possible outcomes tigers at FG is the least likely.

Not necessarily Welly, tigers are one point ahead of Chiefs and Sarries both of whom will expect to get a bonus point Saturday and have vastly better points differences to Tigers.

I would not expect Tigers to get a bonus point against Saints even if they rest one or two players so, assuming a Tigers win ( or they are out of it )

With bonus points for both Sarries and Chiefs the table would look like this:

Sarries 68 points 195 points difference plus bigger win difference
Chiefs 68 points 198 points difference plus win difference
Tigers 68 points 24 points difference plus win difference

As Sarries have LW they are almost guaranteed 5 points, so Tigers really need to do what they have been poor at all season, score a bucket load against the meanest defence in the AP. Sale have nothing really to play for, they have secured their European spot and their pack is probably no match for Chiefs who have a habit of driving over a lot of tries.

I would say Tigers going to FG is the most likely if they go anywhere.

Sorry Well-Past-It, being a Saints fan I know I should side with you but listening to Mike Ford being interviewed on Full Contact with Brian Moore on Talk Sport he expects it to be a Bath Tigers semi and I think I'm inclined to agree with him.

Only time will tell, I would prefer it that way Chiefs or Sarries at FG would be a better chance of the final. Tigers have the nouce that the others don't when it comes to tight semi-finals.

Ford must be expecting Saints to put out an academy side as the only way I can see that Tigers get 3rd is a bonus point against us or Sarries not getting 4 tries against LW.

Funnily enough, just to prove my initial point about Tigers, they are I think the only side not to get a bonus point against LW and also the only side to be behind at half time against them, although they did wake up second half.

WPI, the order is decided by number of wins before points difference which I believe gives the advantage to Tigers
Also Tigers got BP wins in both games against LW although IIRC they were the only team to be behind at half time.

Then my apologies to B91212 and Welly. I assumed that it would go on points difference.

Yep that's right Broadland, Tigers will be 3rd or 5th. Got so used to the idea that Tigers would be playing at FG if they managed to sneak into the top 4 that it feels strange that it's now the least likely scenario.

Correct, Tigers just have to win to finish 3rd - who would have thought that earlier in the season?

I fancy our chances better against Chiefs or Sarries at FG. Barf vs Tigers will drain both sides enough that I would put money on us at HQ in the final and I don't even do the lottery.

I think Chiefs' only chance is if Tigers lose this week - you have to assume Sarries will end up with a better points difference even if Chiefs manage to get the TBP v Sale.

Jimpy wrote:

Heaf wrote:But he said both sides ...

He did. I am corrected. Sorry Doc.

No worries, mate. If Saints put out a partially second team and Tigers get the win, then I certainly hope we meet in the Final. It would be a bit strange if the teams play this weekend, then again the next weekend in the semi-finals.

Unless I'm wrong the only (highly unlikely) scenario that would end up with a Saints v Tigers semi final would be if they draw this week with Tigers also getting a TBP and then one of Sarries or Chiefs would need to lose ...

If one of Sarries or Exeter lose, Tigers can lose and finish 4th.

Only scenario (I think) for one of Sarries or Exeter to lose and Tigers finish 5th is if Tigers do not get the LBP while the other losing team get an LBP and a TBP.

Ah yes of course - DOH

Updated with match officials

Jim Mallinder has a little dig at Warren Gatland while confirming George North not fit for this weekend.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/32724793

LondonTiger wrote:Jim Mallinder has a little dig at Warren Gatland while confirming George North not fit for this weekend.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/32724793

I like that.  A wry, not so subtle shot at fat boy:

Jim Mallinder wrote:  "That's Warren. He's looking after Wales, and looking after himself. What we've got to do is make sure that we look after George North, he's our number one priority.  

Knowing Mallinder he is not taking Gatland very seriously and was having a bit o fun.  On the other hand I do think he is taking George North's condition very seriously.

Good on Mallinder. Gatland cared not a sod when North was knocked out twice in the same game. Saints have been looking after him properly they shouldn't then be dictated to by Gatland after doing what Wales should have done in the first place.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Good on Mallinder. Gatland cared not a sod when North was knocked out twice in the same game. Saints have been looking after him properly they shouldn't then be dictated to by Gatland after doing what Wales should have done in the first place.

Gatland still seems unaware of why many were disappointed with the way Wales handled the situation. He said about the blow North took:

"If we had seen that we would definitely have taken him off. There was definitely no negligence on our part."

For most people, the accusation of negligence is based on the fact they didn't see the blow. It was certainly seen by others at the ground and on television. Watching the "Lions RAW" documentary the other day, staff in the coaches box regularly spoke on the radio mike to tell touchline staff to have a closer look at someone. It's part of the modern game, so the Welsh staff slipped up by not spotting it.

So what we seem to be saying is that the Welsh staff were either incompetent for not taking North off when he got the first head injury or that they are incompetent for not noticing the injury in the first place

Lets not turn this into a wales thread!!!

Rugby Fan wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:Good on Mallinder. Gatland cared not a sod when North was knocked out twice in the same game. Saints have been looking after him properly they shouldn't then be dictated to by Gatland after doing what Wales should have done in the first place.

Gatland still seems unaware of why many were disappointed with the way Wales handled the situation. He said about the blow North took:

"If we had seen that we would definitely have taken him off. There was definitely no negligence on our part."

For most people, the accusation of negligence is based on the fact they didn't see the blow. It was certainly seen by others at the ground and on television. Watching the "Lions RAW" documentary the other day, staff in the coaches box regularly spoke on the radio mike to tell touchline staff to have a closer look at someone. It's part of the modern game, so the Welsh staff slipped up by not spotting it.

I think what had many people questioning the comments from Gatland was that North and Hibbard were in the act of tackling the ball carrier.  I would have expected that all eyes were, or should have been, on the play because England were getting close to the Wales line and that was where the ball was.   Most certainly the coaches.  What else would they be looking at?    

I have done the pitch-side doc thing a few times at Premiership and Championship matches, but regularly at local club matches.  Although I frequently scan the players across the pitch, I am almost always focused on the play down near the line.  I don't think I am unique in that way, so I would have expected the Wales coaches and med staff to be doing the same.  

I rather enjoy the mind games regarding players and getting under their skins.  The quid pro quo can be humourous.  But not when it comes to a players health.

lostinwales wrote:So what we seem to be saying is that the Welsh staff were either incompetent for not taking North off when he got the first head injury or that they are incompetent for not noticing the injury in the first place

I think they were wilfully negligent personally. North is a key player and Wales were under the cosh, they were desperate to keep him on. As it is, it cost them a try because England scored a try soon after, North looked like a punch-drunk boxer trying to tackle him.

I do understand that most people's eyes will be fixed on the action. It is however pretty easy to spot people lying down and either not standing up or struggling to stand up. 

As far as I can remember every time with North he was lying prone on the ground for a while before moving

lostinwales wrote:I do understand that most people's eyes will be fixed on the action. It is however pretty easy to spot people lying down and either not standing up or struggling to stand up. 

As far as I can remember every time with North he was lying prone on the ground for a while before moving

But, that is exactly the point with his second head injury in the England match.  Everyone, apparently excepting the Wales coaching and med staff, was watching the action which was the exact location where North went down.  And, I agree, was easy to spot.

So close.

I assume most neutrals will want us to lose.



Can't wait!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So then whose everyone's' money then.

Not that I have anything against Tigers themselves but I'd prefer them to lose on Saturday just because I'd prefer to see Chiefs make the play-offs ...

Heaf wrote:Not that I have anything against Tigers themselves but I'd prefer them to lose on Saturday just because I'd prefer to see Chiefs make the play-offs ...

Ditto

HammerofThunor wrote:

Heaf wrote:Not that I have anything against Tigers themselves but I'd prefer them to lose on Saturday just because I'd prefer to see Chiefs make the play-offs ...

Ditto

Well, you know there is another way for Exe to make the playoffs.......

Welsh beating Saracens? I would prefer that overall but less likely I think.

HammerofThunor wrote:Welsh beating Saracens? I would prefer that overall but less likely I think.

I wonder if the betting companies even have odds on that one. Would be about one million to one, eh? I was just raising the possibility to see if anyone would claim Saracens were underdogs.......