Why oh why Tuilagi!....... BREAKING NEWS!

First topic message reminder :

Well that makes the midfield pairing debate easier...............................

http://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/story/_/id/12891571/manu-tuilagi-world-cup-assault-charge

The simple fact that you cannot understand why in the context of what he has done means you will never grasp the concept.

Staggering really that you can't, but there it is.

So you cant explain how you jump from an assault charge to saying someone has a flawed pysche then? Maybe you shouldn t make such horrendous statements?

Wow Manu must be a raging lunatic...

1) Doing bunny ears.....If you suggest that shows major psychological issues...dear lord

2) Jumping off a ferry was a bit wreckless...more for his safety than anything else. But hes not the only 23 yo in the country who would have done that.

3) His latest issue. Yes more serious and needs reeling in now...but to chastise the lad as having major mental issues etc....don't be daft.

He needs a few of the tigers senior players to take him under their wing...like their brothers would have had they still been at the Leicester.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Wow Manu must be a raging lunatic...

Totally agree - he's a danger to himself and others -a modern day Martin Riggs.

Geordiefalcon

No it doesn't mean he's a raging lunatic but he's obviously been affected by something to make him act like this.

1) he was the only person to do it. If it was another player they might have been criticised.

2) No perhaps not the only 23 year old but he's a professional rugby player and meant to be a role model.

3) Everyone has issues. Manu just decided to take out his frustation in a violent manner.

I agree he needs some senior tigers players to help him.

The first thing to solving a problem is admitting there is one.

It's not as if Manu is the only sportsman with issues.

Tiger woods was a sex addict.

Luiz Suarez has a tendency to bite people and has other disciplinary issues.

Ashton has had his own disciplinary issues.

Gwlad wrote:The simple fact that you cannot understand why in the context of what he has done means you will never grasp the concept.

Staggering really that you can't, but there it is.

No, what's staggering is that you cannot explain your accusations, preferring to question people's intelligence instead, because you know, deep down, it's you who hasn't got a clue what you're talking about.

Now, either explain how you feel the player's psyche is flawed or simply shut the **** up (and i'll give you a clue, to determine if someone's psyche is flawed, you would need to be a psychologist and have conducted a detailed psychiatric investigation).

GeordieFalcon wrote:Wow Manu must be a raging lunatic...

1) Doing bunny ears.....If you suggest that shows major psychological issues...dear lord

2) Jumping off a ferry was a bit wreckless...more for his safety than anything else. But hes not the only 23 yo in the country who would have done that.

3) His latest issue. Yes more serious and needs reeling in now...but to chastise the lad as having major mental issues etc....don't be daft.

He needs a few of the tigers senior players to take him under their wing...like their brothers would have had they still been at the Leicester.

You're not only battling ignorance here, but an obviously inherent dislike for the player, and quite possibly a hint of xenophobia.

Jimpy that's going too far.

I don't dislike Manu. I think when he's played for England he's been an excellent attacking player with a great try strike rate.

His performance vs NZ in autumn 2012 was one of the best I have seen from a player.

He's the Tigers player I would most want to play for Saracens.

You can see the difference to Tigers when he is playing and when he isn't.

I just want Manu to mature and sort his issues out.

Sometimes the most talented players aren't the most controlled players.

Geordiefalcon

No it doesn't mean he's a raging lunatic but he's obviously been affected by something to make him act like this.

1) he was the only person to do it. If it was another player they might have been criticised.
2) No perhaps not the only 23 year old but he's a professional rugby player and meant to be a role model.
3) Everyone has issues. Manu just decided to take out his frustation in a violent manner.

I would suggest being injured so long is a MASSIVE contribution with frustration at not being able to do what he loves - playing rugby.

We all get frustrated ...except we arnt one step away from the front pages though. He's a young 23 yo.

1) I say again it was a daft carry on that even the PM had a laugh at.
2) Stupid, more for the safety to himself...I at that age did some just as daft things...im not mentally flawed.
3) He's not the only rugby player to have had a bit of a scuffle...and wont be the last. He pushed the WPC's...he didn't punch them or get hold of them...but still he should not have done that and is reaping the punishment. Hopefully he learns...and im sure he will.

History is full of young sport stars who have a wobble and sort themselves out. Rugby has its fair share....

Forgive me Tuilagi, I just couldn't take any more!!

Sing along.

Geordiefalcon

1) Daft carry on which was unnecessary. In isolation it's not that important but it all adds up.
2) Just because you've done it doesn't mean it should be acceptable
3) I agree but it's still not something you want to see.

I want Manu to sort himself out. Yes you are right perhaps it is frustation with the injury but Manu needs to control himself.

You are right - Manu is not the only young sports star that has a wobble.

I can understand the concern, but ultimately boys will be boys. Regardless of if your a superstar TV star , sportsman even politicians etc...

We cant expect everyone to be saintly and abide by the rules constantly. But being that doesn't mean people are flawed. They are just testing the waters, and in his case full of frustration.

As long as he doesn't turn out like Gazza or Georgie Best...then no worries...

Boys will be boys you say....imagine if you were the poor taxi driver or the police officers being assaulted by Manu.

The way society is - if you're a high profile person in the media spotlight you have less leeway than someone not in the spotlight. Pros and cons to being in the spotlight.

People are flawed. The way you get around that is trying to reduce the flaws, refine and improve.

Flawed psyche is different to having flaws is what we're getting at.

Other than the PM thing they're not acceptable. And he's been/being punished for them. Doesn't mean he has serious issues or a 'flawed psyche' (or at least any more than is completely normal). Let's be clear, he's not gotten away with anything. It's not been brushed under the carpet or laughed off.  He's been fined, he's got a criminal record (I would have thought, no idea how it works). Some people are making a much bigger deal out of it than necessary.

edit: is it just me or is this place running really slow these days? My browser keys hanging while waiting for some 'adservice' thing.

Didn't realise everyone on here were saintly goodie twoshoes....

Can't swim.

no 7 & 1/2 fame and frustation from injuries can do funny things to a player or person.

hammerofthunor acceptable to insult the PM? Personally I disagree.

Would it be acceptable to insult the queen?

Bigger deal? It is a big deal. He's been found guilty of assaulting two police officers - sounds quite serious to me.

Though saying that all I want to see is Manu Tuilagi helped - whether it's from a mentor like Wilkinson or from Tigers' support team. I just personally think Manu needs help.

You seem to be under the impression that there is no problem. There quite clearly is.

geordiefalcon far from a goodie two shoes but this topic is about Manu.

Who's saying there's no problem with what he's done? Think Jimpy summed it up best '(and i'll give you a clue, to determine if someone's psyche is flawed, you would need to be a psychologist and have conducted a detailed psychiatric investigation).'

I'd happily insult the PM to his face.

The PM was perfectly happy to insult and mock me to my face when he was younger. As an over-privileged Tinkywinky who cares nothing about the country, only about being elected and giving money to his posh friends, I would be perfectly happy to insult him to his face.

People deserve respect for their actions - not for the post they hold.

LondonTiger wrote:The PM was perfectly happy to insult and mock me to my face when he was younger. As an over-privileged Tinkywinky who cares nothing about the country, only about being elected and giving money to his posh friends, I would be perfectly happy to insult him to his face.

People deserve respect for their actions - not for the post they hold.

Sounds like a story.

I'd add that one of the great strengths of this country is that we are free (within reason) to take the mick out of our elected leaders without fear of reprisals

LondonTiger wrote:The PM was perfectly happy to insult and mock me to my face when he was younger. As an over-privileged Tinkywinky who cares nothing about the country, only about being elected and giving money to his posh friends, I would be perfectly happy to insult him to his face.

People deserve respect for their actions - not for the post they hold.

Just like the last Labour leadership in fact.

beshocked wrote:Jimpy that's going too far.

I don't dislike Manu. I think when he's played for England he's been an excellent attacking player with a great try strike rate.

His performance vs NZ in autumn 2012 was one of the best I have seen from a player.

He's the Tigers player I would most want to play for Saracens.

You can see the difference to Tigers when he is playing and when he isn't.

I just want Manu to mature and sort his issues out.

Sometimes the most talented players aren't the most controlled players.

You obviously thought that the post was directed at you. It wasn't really.....but if the cap fits and all that....

no 7 & 1/2

We can quibble about the definitions of psyche being flawed etc. Personally I think Manu needs help - doesn't mean I think he's mentally insane, just think he needs to mature a bit, control his temper and curb his silly tendencies.

I don't think we disagree do we?

We agree completely bar that term beshocked. And the PM!

beshocked wrote:no 7 & 1/2

We can quibble about the definitions of psyche being flawed etc. Personally I think Manu needs help - doesn't mean I think he's mentally insane, just think he needs to mature a bit, control his temper and curb his silly tendencies.

I don't think we disagree do we?

And both club and country have publicly stated that they will supply that help, whatever help is required.

This is a non story.

Out of interest, did you make any judgement call s on the psyche of Callum Clarke when he wilfully broke Hawkins's elbow, or Steffon Armitage, who is still under investigation for a much more serious (allegedly) assault?

I'm not defending Manu simply because he plays for Leicester. Nobody, in fact, has defended his actions. However, we need a bit of perspective here, because it seems that some posters are happy to sensationalise matters because it suits their own agendas.

Well obviously those two players quite clearly have their own issues. This is a discussion on Manu but I agree with you. I wouldn't say that either of those incidents are non stories.

You say it's a non story - well no it's not but I think this discussion has run it's course now.

LondonTiger wrote:The PM was perfectly happy to insult and mock me to my face when he was younger.

Come on Tiger, don't leave things dangling. Fill it out. What happened? The two of you went to the same school and he ridiculed you for stealing his homework, that he had always paid the brainy lad to do for him each night?

Come on. Out with it. Detail.

No 7&1/2 wrote:So you cant explain how you jump from an assault charge to saying someone has a flawed pysche then? Maybe you shouldn t make such horrendous statements?

its not a charge is it? Are you 2 weeks behind the rest of the english speaking world? Its a triple conviction for assault including on 2 female offciers, an assault on a taxi driver and an assault on his taxi.

Like i said, repeatedly, if you can't make the link yourself between that rap and a flawed psyche, then the problem is with you.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Who's saying there's no problem with what he's done? Think Jimpy summed it up best '(and i'll give you a clue, to determine if someone's psyche is flawed, you would need to be a psychologist and have conducted a detailed psychiatric investigation).'

I'd happily insult the PM to his face.

Well guess what, I have a BA (Hons) in Psychology

And guess what else, a Psychologist DOES NOT CONDUCT PSYCHIATRIC INVESTIGATIONS! That would be done by a….wait for it……PSYCHIATRIST.

Gwlad wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Who's saying there's no problem with what he's done? Think Jimpy summed it up best '(and i'll give you a clue, to determine if someone's psyche is flawed, you would need to be a psychologist and have conducted a detailed psychiatric investigation).'

I'd happily insult the PM to his face.

Well guess what, I have a BA (Hons) in Psychology

And guess what else, a Psychologist DOES NOT CONDUCT PSYCHIATRIC INVESTIGATIONS! That would be done by a….wait for it……PSYCHIATRIST.  

If it is true that you have such a micky mouse degree then you probably like mind games, which explains a great deal

Gwlad wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Who's saying there's no problem with what he's done? Think Jimpy summed it up best '(and i'll give you a clue, to determine if someone's psyche is flawed, you would need to be a psychologist and have conducted a detailed psychiatric investigation).'

I'd happily insult the PM to his face.

Well guess what, I have a BA (Hons) in Psychology

And guess what else, a Psychologist DOES NOT CONDUCT PSYCHIATRIC INVESTIGATIONS! That would be done by a….wait for it……PSYCHIATRIST.  

Lol, that explains a lot about you!

lostinwales wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Who's saying there's no problem with what he's done? Think Jimpy summed it up best '(and i'll give you a clue, to determine if someone's psyche is flawed, you would need to be a psychologist and have conducted a detailed psychiatric investigation).'

I'd happily insult the PM to his face.

Well guess what, I have a BA (Hons) in Psychology

And guess what else, a Psychologist DOES NOT CONDUCT PSYCHIATRIC INVESTIGATIONS! That would be done by a….wait for it……PSYCHIATRIST.  

If it is true that you have such a micky mouse degree then you probably like mind games, which explains a great deal

Did you deduce that from one of your pop Psychology books or from studying Mens Health?

And btw, Mickey has an E in it.

Jimpy wrote:

beshocked wrote:no 7 & 1/2

We can quibble about the definitions of psyche being flawed etc. Personally I think Manu needs help - doesn't mean I think he's mentally insane, just think he needs to mature a bit, control his temper and curb his silly tendencies.

I don't think we disagree do we?

And both club and country have publicly stated that they will supply that help, whatever help is required.

This is a non story.

Out of interest, did you make any judgement call s on the psyche of Callum Clarke when he wilfully broke Hawkins's elbow, or Steffon Armitage, who is still under investigation for a much more serious (allegedly) assault?

I'm not defending Manu simply because he plays for Leicester. Nobody, in fact, has defended his actions. However, we need a bit of perspective here, because it seems that some posters are happy to sensationalise matters because it suits their own agendas.

Nobody is sensationalizing anything. You won't face facts, your boy is a criminal.

Question is can you rehabilitate him or is he a thug, and if so does he deserve to wear the England shirt. Likewise Clarke who deliberately snaps someones elbow on the pitch. IMO Clarke should have got a life ban, the flying headbutts v NZ were a sign, the elbow was what happens when you ignore the facts.

I presume no NZ player has never stamped a player om the head ? Or two of them have driven a player head first towards the ground ? Are they not not thugs as well ? Did they deserve to wear the NZ shirt ?

Steve_rugby wrote:I presume no NZ player has never stamped a player om the head ? Or two of them have driven a player head first towards the ground  ? Are they not not thugs as well ? Did they deserve to wear the NZ shirt ?

I don't think you're psychologically stable enough to put such questions on this thread, Steve.  Only professionals can comment on this one I'm afraid.  

Now Bugger off!

Steve_rugby wrote:I presume no NZ player has never stamped a player om the head ? Or two of them have driven a player head first towards the ground  ? Are they not not thugs as well ? Did they deserve to wear the NZ shirt ?

Do you understand the difference between committing a crime and being fund guilty of it and not committing a crime?

Manu Tuilagi has a criminal record because he assaulted cops and a taxi. Arguably in the case of Clarke i think he is lucky not to have one. Mealamu and Umaga's actions were disgraceful, no doubt, but not criminal. I don't think you can clearly demonstrate from their actions an intent to cause injury to BOD. Clarke, i think you'd have a decent enough case.

Edit: Sorry, I was guilty here of taking an unqualified idiot more seriously than warranted.

beshocked wrote:Boys will be boys you say....imagine if you were the poor taxi driver or the police officers being assaulted by Manu.

Oh come on Beshocked, we know nothing about the circumstances that lead to the confrontation. It might well be that he was a poor taxi driver, set upon by a drunken thug for no reason whatsoever. It could also be that he was a cretin who got less than he deserved, we just don't know. The fact that you would use language like that without the facts shows how keen you are to stick it to Manu, probably because he didn't show the level of deference to your precious PM that you feel he should.

While the guy is a grade A tool of the highest order I am quite disappointed that Tuilagi has been ommited from the RWC Squad. Being a Wales supporter we wanted a weak England team at 'HQ' and this clown not playing helps England's chances in the group

Steffan wrote:While the guy is a grade A tool of the highest order I am quite disappointed that Tuilagi has been ommited from the RWC Squad. Being a Wales supporter we wanted a weak England team at 'HQ' and this clown not playing helps England's chances in the group

Are you suggesting if Manu was playing he would be an easy target?

nathan wrote:

Steffan wrote:While the guy is a grade A tool of the highest order I am quite disappointed that Tuilagi has been ommited from the RWC Squad. Being a Wales supporter we wanted a weak England team at 'HQ' and this clown not playing helps England's chances in the group

Are you suggesting if Manu was playing he would be an easy target?

No I am suggesting the guy is a very limited rugby player and is of no real loss to the England team

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:

beshocked wrote:Boys will be boys you say....imagine if you were the poor taxi driver or the police officers being assaulted by Manu.

Oh come on Beshocked, we know nothing about the circumstances that lead to the confrontation. It might well be that he was a poor taxi driver, set upon by a drunken thug for no reason whatsoever. It could also be that he was a cretin who got less than he deserved, we just don't know. The fact that you would use language like that without the facts shows how keen you are to stick it to Manu, probably because he didn't show the level of deference to your precious PM that you feel he should.

the assualt constituted a headlock and pushing. No excuse and rightly convicted, but pfobably only a penalty if it happened on a rugby pitch.

On form and used right he is (sorry for this) world class

manu is barely in control when sober. ferry incident on tour and PM bunny move.

when drunk he clearly is even less in control.

he is immature, and someone needs to tell him that maybe he should avoid those last 3 drinks that take away all vestiges of self control.

but he is also clearly a fun, friendly, team-player, and capable of great individual brilliance on the pitch.

a year in the cold for him to reassess, lots of help with control type issues, and barring injury, i hope he will be back far better, wiser, and stronger than ever.

nathan wrote:On form and used right he is (sorry for this) world class

world class players are not criminals. A world class player has as much gravitas off the pitch as he does on it. Manu has no brains, he is a battering ram centre for an English team that has never used a battering ram centre so he seems exceptional, plain and simple. Bar one afternoon v NZ he has done nothing that makes him world class, and everyone knows that NZ were all sick that day.

Gwlad wrote:

nathan wrote:On form and used right he is (sorry for this) world class

world class players are not criminals. A world class player has as much gravitas off the pitch as he does on it. Manu has no brains, he is  a battering ram centre for an English team that has never used a battering ram centre so he seems exceptional, plain and simple. Bar one afternoon v NZ he has done nothing that makes him world class, and everyone knows that NZ were all sick that day.

Still spouting your usual garbage. NZ were annihilated by a much better side on the day. They were sick during the week before the game, not on the day of the game.

Was Jason Robinson a world class player ?

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:

beshocked wrote:Boys will be boys you say....imagine if you were the poor taxi driver or the police officers being assaulted by Manu.

Oh come on Beshocked, we know nothing about the circumstances that lead to the confrontation. It might well be that he was a poor taxi driver, set upon by a drunken thug for no reason whatsoever. It could also be that he was a cretin who got less than he deserved, we just don't know. The fact that you would use language like that without the facts shows how keen you are to stick it to Manu, probably because he didn't show the level of deference to your precious PM that you feel he should.

Perfectly describes Manu frankly.

And we do know.

The FACTS are Manu plead GUILTY. That means he knew that going to trial would reveal what he did to the court and to public and to Stewie in full. His counsel no doubt advised him he would likely get a conviction, and quite possibly, a custodial sentence though likely a suspended one. Also to defend those actions on trial and be found guilty would hardly endear him to the English management.

That he has already shown he is an immature fool on a circus of a tour and additionally shown he has no idea about proper behavior when representing the greatest rugby touring side in history, just leads any reasonable person to the conclusion that he is a fool at best and, in fact, a criminal who has now finally admitted his crimes.

In that admission and his taking responsibility for his crimes, does he deserve a small amount of respect.

Who needs Manu when you have JJ to unlock defences?