England v New Zealand, First Test Lord's

First topic message reminder :

So after all the drama and acrimony of the last couple of weeks, its time for the action to begin on the field. The first test of the English summer gets underway at the HQ from tomorrow. An upcoming New Zealand against an embattled England. But England are on home turf, New Zealand don't have a good record in England, most of their recent success has come at home, the core of their test side are just coming on the back of T-20 cricket at the IPL rather than much getting used to English conditions.
England on the other hand are without a coach and questions on Kevin Pietersen are going away nowhere. There are unsettled issues about the combination of the side, with the position of one of the openers, the 3rd seamer and the spinner being open questions.
Adam Lyth is likely to make his debut for England tomorrow, and there is a chance that Mark Wood might come in for Chris Jordan.
For New Zealand, it is being suggested that Matt Henry might get to debut and offer backup to Tim Southee and Trent Boult. Martin Guptill, on the back of a spectacular world cup and 150 in the warmup game is set to come back as test opener, and Corey Anderson, coming back from injury, is set to take the all-rounder position.
Set for some very interesting cricket.......

There's a part of me that can't help thinking, if only KP was in the team, we might just be 119-4 rather than, err, 119-4

GSC wrote:Latham keeping after Watling suffers a knee injury in the first session.

Cant imagine its serious if he continued to the end so probably a precaution.

Hope New Zealand's man for a crisis is alright.

GSC wrote:Latham keeping after Watling suffers a knee injury in the first session.

Cant imagine its serious if he continued to the end so probably a precaution.

Wouldn't McCullum be the obvious option??

Watling was noticeably limping between overs.

Probably prefers to captain without having to focus on keeping I guess in the longer format. Dhonis done a few times from memory.

VTR wrote:

GSC wrote:Latham keeping after Watling suffers a knee injury in the first session.

Cant imagine its serious if he continued to the end so probably a precaution.

Wouldn't McCullum be the obvious option??

In some ways yes but still very difficult to deputise as a keeper and keep thinking as a captain.

GSC wrote:Probably prefers to captain without having to focus on keeping I guess in the longer format. Dhonis done a few times from memory.

I can see that logic but is Latham a keeper at any level? I don't know anything about him to be honest, so if he is then I retract my previous comment

EDIT: Looks like he is. Didn't really cross my mind there could be 3 keepers in one team!

VTR wrote:There's a part of me that can't help thinking, if only KP was in the team, we might just be 119-4 rather than, err, 119-4

I didn't think Pietersen looked so good in the final hour of that morning session. Mind you, he was clearly terrific during the first 60 minutes.

VTR wrote:

GSC wrote:Probably prefers to captain without having to focus on keeping I guess in the longer format. Dhonis done a few times from memory.

I can see that logic but is Latham a keeper at any level? I don't know anything about him to be honest, so if he is then I retract my previous comment

EDIT: Looks like he is. Didn't really cross my mind there could be 3 keepers in one team!

You haven't seen Surrey recently then! Wilson, Davies, Sangakkara, Burns plus Foakes on the bench. As the saying goes - more keepers than London Zoo!

Fifty for Stokes

Very timely. And frankly , as well as I've seen him play. Be nice if he can go on with it today...

guildfordbat wrote:

VTR wrote:There's a part of me that can't help thinking, if only KP was in the team, we might just be 119-4 rather than, err, 119-4

I didn't think Pietersen looked so good in the final hour of that morning session. Mind you, he was clearly terrific during the first 60 minutes.

I have made a vow not to mention (during play) that ex-captain who is currently injured and on contract to a commercial league.

But I had to laugh...

Agree with that, Alfie. From memory (which means it could be wrong!), when Stokes has scored runs before for England they haven't really been in pressure situations or ultimately counted for much. He now needs to go on and ensure his total today is meaningful ....

alfie wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:

VTR wrote:There's a part of me that can't help thinking, if only KP was in the team, we might just be 119-4 rather than, err, 119-4

I didn't think Pietersen looked so good in the final hour of that morning session. Mind you, he was clearly terrific during the first 60 minutes.

I have made a vow not to mention (during play) that ex-captain who is currently injured and on contract to a commercial league.

But I had to laugh...

Thanks, Alfie, and fair enough. I was going to leave it there anyway. The point is more than made for any reasonable man.

Now, this is starting to run away from New Zealand. Runs are coming thick and fast, and there is no wicket to show for all that attacking intent for almost the last couple of hours. So New Zealand need to slow things down, this is test cricket, attack is the way to go, but you should not over attack so much so that the game would run away from you.

Warne pushing the need for an aggressive bat in the top three...and Nass for that matter.
I see the reasoning. But I am reluctant to move Root up again , with him playing so well at five. Ballance has been very good at three ; and perhaps we can watch Lyth play a few more innings before deciding he is either too defensive or just a dud
Actually didn't mind what I saw of Lyth. Looked keen to run singles ; and in fairness didn't get much to attack - and got a very good ball. He may yet play the more fluent ball striker to Cook's more "soak it up early " style...

All the talk in the box of the contrast between the early wickets and this spirited counter attack does seem to be somewhat underplaying the fact that batting in the first hour was pretty damn difficult ! Some good bowling ; and the ball was doing quite a lot.
All praise to these two ; but I reckon even they'd say they were glad not to be in facing the first dozen or so overs today.
England's hour since the break

Made me chuckle as well guildford gotta say.

I'd also say that this is as well as I've seen Stokes play, and has the potential to be his most valuable innings.

Excellent hour from England. New-Zealand struggling with their discipline, too many loose balls. Might be time to give the off-spinner a bit of a longer bowl.

The attempt to find a more pro-active 3 from the commentary team strikes me as a classic case of trying to get square pegs to hit round holes. Back to the days when England were convinced they needed a wicket-keeper opening in one-day cricket and being aggressive, leading to the likes of Prior, Jones, Mustard et al being tried there (and none of them doing well at all).

Ballance has looked good at 3, and all of Root's test career has screamed that 5 is an obvious place for him. Mucking them about to try and fit a system which you want to play doesn't strike me as a bright thing to do.

New Zealand overstretched for a wicket after the flurry and they haven't managed to rein it back in. Perhaps with the benefit of hindsight, McCullum will reflect he went for the kill a bit too early in the game.

England do not usually score 180+ in 40 overs of an ODI game. Extraordinary partnership against a decent bowling attack.
Said that, the NZ bowling lineup got carried away a bit and Stokes and Root are really laying into them now as they have put together more than 150 and looking good for many more....... Time for captain McCullum to come up with something special, or Boult or Southee to produce a moment of inspiration.

Rather a tame end to an excellent innings from Stokes. Pity ...he deserved a Lord's hundred.
Uncharacteristic also ; Stokes had been so positive that an unwise leave was the last thing expected !

Relief for NZ..they really needed that.

Good time for Buttler to come in , you'd think ?

Excellent innings from Stokes - averaging near 50 batting at 6 in his test career.

Meanwhile, my neighbour who is either very honest or totally uninterested in cricket has just brought round 4 tickets for the England v New Zealand ODI at the Oval as ordered for myself and friends which the postman wrongly delivered to her gaff!

guildfordbat wrote:Meanwhile, my neighbour who is either very honest or totally uninterested in cricket has just brought round 4 tickets for the England v New Zealand ODI at the Oval as ordered for myself and friends which the postman wrongly delivered to her gaff!

Had they opened them then? I would deduce that if they had refused tickets to watch England in an ODI, that would in fact make them very keen cricket fans!

Olly wrote:Excellent innings from Stokes - averaging near 50 batting at 6 in his test career.

Admittedly rather a small sample , though , Olly.

But if he plays like that he is certainly a good fit for the position. Keeping Buttler at seven ; so it seems to me good all round.
Hopefully this is a sign of things to come. Can't expect run a ball ninety every time ; but he just looked more permanent today , quite apart from the dashing stroke play.

England's session that. They go into having lost only one wicket in the session and moved on to 219 for 5 having been 30 for 4 midway through the first session of the day. Overall the match is evenly poised for me.

Just went for a bit with Stokes on 91, came back to see he's gone, that too leaving one to be bowled after all that had gone before!. Funny old game....... Excellent knock from Stokes, hope they would give him a good run at 6, the guy has that bit special in him. After all the nonsense, some positives from England from the point of view of a cricket lover, Stokes coming in at 6, Buttler in at 7....... I still believe Buttler can bat 6, but if they aren't going for it, this is the right order, Stokes, Buttler, Ali, rather than Ali, Stokes, Buttler that was downright ridiculous .......

VTR wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:Meanwhile, my neighbour who is either very honest or totally uninterested in cricket has just brought round 4 tickets for the England v New Zealand ODI at the Oval as ordered for myself and friends which the postman wrongly delivered to her gaff!

Had they opened them then? I would deduce that if they had refused tickets to watch England in an ODI, that would in fact make them very keen cricket fans!

Yes, she had opened them!

msp83 wrote:Just went for a bit with Stokes on 91, came back to see he's gone, that too leaving one to be bowled after all that had gone before!. Funny old game....... Excellent knock from Stokes, hope they would give him a good run at 6, the guy has that bit special in him. After all the nonsense, some positives from England from the point of view of a cricket lover, Stokes coming in at 6, Buttler in at 7....... I still believe Buttler can bat 6, but if they aren't going for it, this is the right order, Stokes, Buttler, Ali, rather than Ali, Stokes, Buttler that was downright ridiculous .......

Can't argue with that, anyone can surely see the ability of Buttler and Stokes is above that of Ali. I have a feeling they are both the type of player who will actually average more in Tests than County Cricket.

From being down and almost out, England have reached levels of parity in the game. The 2nd session was entirely their's. But with the Stokes wicket that so desperately needed, New Zealand have managed to keep things even in the overall context of the game. Think Buttler should stay positive without crossing over to being reckless. Understandable that he has taken a bit of time to get himself in, now he should play his natural game....... Nw Zealand will have the 2nd new ball towards the ned of the next session, but if Root and Buttler can stay together till it comes, or even if England go into the new ball only one more down, they'll have a decent score on the board by then.......

guildfordbat wrote:

VTR wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:Meanwhile, my neighbour who is either very honest or totally uninterested in cricket has just brought round 4 tickets for the England v New Zealand ODI at the Oval as ordered for myself and friends which the postman wrongly delivered to her gaff!

Had they opened them then? I would deduce that if they had refused tickets to watch England in an ODI, that would in fact make them very keen cricket fans!

Yes, she had opened them!

Not that honest then! "Let's have a look in here. Oh England ODI tickets to play New Zealand? Well our boys were rather humiliated last time they donned their Pajamas to take on the Black Caps, so I think the chap next door can jolly well have these afterall. That birthday card with a ten pound note in though...."

guildfordbat wrote:
...
New Zealand won the first hour so convincingly they remain nicely on top. However, we fought back well and won the second. IF (big '''if''), we can add another 120 in the afternoon session for the loss of only 1 wicket we should be back to about level and maybe looking to end the day slightly ahead. However, a couple of quick wickets after lunch and we are right back in the mire. Very interesting ....

Well, we avoided losing quick wickets after lunch and added a further 106 in the middle session for the loss of only one man. Shame that Stokes' dismissal was so tame after showing such beneficial aggression. However, he and Root both played well and the latter is still going. That session was about as good as we could have realistically expected.

Which ever side has the best of the last session will have had the best of the day ....

Root and Buttler looking comfortable. If they can push the score by another 50 before the new ball and are still there to deal with it, New Zealand might find themselves in some serious trouble at the end of day 1. England slightly ahead in the overall context of the game.

Aw well, Root won't be there to deal with the new ball. A wonderful innings, but he's missed out on a really really deserved ton. Gone for 98, Henry gets him caught behind.

Stayed up hoping to see young Joe to a hundred ..but he's gone for 98 , alas...

Excellent innings ; but he didn't have to fan at that one ...will be annoyed at getting out there , quite apart from missing the century.

Meanwhile , Buttler has quietly moved on to 26. He could do with a big one today ...

Funny little review against Moeen Ali first ball, he got one of the back of the bat down to third man, the New Zealanders thought that hit the pad and appealed for LBW and challenged the umpire's call of 4 runs..... So that's their reviews done till the new ball.

Credit to Henry ...kept nagging away outside off. Three for him now.

Moeen may have to get used to batting at eight now ; but with Buttler at the other end that is no reason why he can't play an innings.

Didn't mean to be too critical of Root's dismissal - he's been putting them away all day ; but he just didn't look to be in quite the right position to cut that . Bit of nervous nineties perhaps. Or just one of those things...

Anyway I had better get some sleep. Hope these two can complete the recovery mission.

Goodnight all

Please for the love of God drop Cook

Root and Stokes saving the innings. 

Hope England don't sack of Lyth, think he still has plenty to offer.

NickisBHAFC wrote:Please for the love of God drop Cook

Root and Stokes saving the innings. 

Hope England don't sack of Lyth, think he still has plenty to offer.

Yes, and bring in, er?

Stella wrote:

NickisBHAFC wrote:Please for the love of God drop Cook

Root and Stokes saving the innings. 

Hope England don't sack of Lyth, think he still has plenty to offer.

Yes, and bring in, er?

You know, that amazing opener who has been tearing up the CC for years. Name escapes me for now. Also love the logic of dropping Cook (a hundred in his last Test) but Lyth is our saviour, a man who scored all of 7 (which is also less than Cook) in this innings

Anyway, back in the real world, its nice to see the long batting line up start to deliver with 5/6/7 in particular bailing out the innings.

They can't be expected to do it every time, but if we are going to play a few all-rounders the strength in depth has to be more than theoretical

Much prefer Buttler at 7 and Ali at 8, gives Jos a bit more room to build an innings knowing he'll have at least two genuine batsmen to play with.

Now Buttler and Ali building a partnership. Ali not looking entirely comfortable, but he has weathered the early storm.
Most importantly for England, they've reached 300.......

And Corey Anderson at last having a spell. Only 4 overs from him so far and might get one more today before Southee and Boult would have one final crack at England with the 2nd new ball today, but he kept the runs down....... Perhaps McCullum should have bowled him a bit more? Then again, he's been coming back from injury.......

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Much prefer Buttler at 7 and Ali at 8, gives Jos a bit more room to build an innings knowing he'll have at least two genuine batsmen to play with.

I agree with this - no idea why they're moaning about having the depth of batting we do - not like we was 30/4 and needed it or nothing....

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Much prefer Buttler at 7 and Ali at 8, gives Jos a bit more room to build an innings knowing he'll have at least two genuine batsmen to play with.

Yep - I think the batting order was all wrong before and made the combination less than the sum of its parts. I have advocated Buttler at 6, but the point is more Buttler should never be at 8. Happy with him at 7 if there's at least a couple of players who can hold a bat at 8 and lower

Since England stumbled to 30 - 4 they have scored just over 300 runs for the loss of two wicket - an impressive comeback.

Seen the score but not any of the play in the last session. How is Moeen playing?

I like him as a batsman more than many here. Cheers.

Fine turn around from England. The first hour reminded of England of recent times, but they turned the clock back since then. Their batting, which was mostly on paper till now, is ones again coming in handy. Moeen Ali, having overcome his usual starting troubles, is now playing some attractive strokes, and Buttler is playing a very mature hand, has to be his best test innings so far.
So After winning the toss and nipping out the England top order in no time, New Zealand would be very, very disappointed with the way the game has gone since.

guildfordbat wrote:Seen the score but not any of the play in the last session. How is Moeen playing?

I like him as a batsman more than many here. Cheers.

Guildford, he did look rather ungainly and uncomfortable at the start, but now that he's in, he's playing some very attractive shots that we know he's capable of playing.
Buttler given out last ball of the day, looked out, review more in hope, but he'll have to go.

England's day despite the wicket of Buttler falling on the last ball of the day. England close on 354 for 7. The middle order dug England out of a hole with big innings from Root, Stokes, Buttler and Ali.

What a good days cricket that was