Scotland u20s World Cup thread

by 123456789 Tue Jun 02, 2015 6:01 pm

First game is 7:30 tonight, seems a good opportunity to discuss performances and prospects of players. Especially with the enormous gap left behind at the pro teams during the senior World Cup.

by aucklandlaurie Wed Jun 03, 2015 4:16 am

As a proud Aucklander I hope the AB Under 20s loose forward trio carry on their form from this morning, and be competitive against other teams. All three scored tries this morning.

By the way doesnt Tevita Li make an impressive sight running his favourite line, down the middle of the field?

by **George Carlin** Wed Jun 03, 2015 7:42 am

Did you watch the whole game, Laurie?

Was it all one sided traffic?

My cardiologist says that I probably shouldn't ask what the final score was...

by **RDW** Wed Jun 03, 2015 8:48 am

Scotland started off OK but it was men against boys after that.

NZ were superb, but Scotland were awful too - our 10 had 3 messed up kicks in a row. The first one was a free kick that he kicked out on the full, he then kicked a restart out on the full and then kicked a penalty out past the dead ball line.

We were blown away at the rucks too - especially out wide where we were much less physical than them.

Men against boys.

by highland_scot Wed Jun 03, 2015 9:10 am

Our Scrum was awful at the start, got a bit better when we brought Fagerson and Bradbury on. Fagerson generally looked very good, Bradbury had some solid carries but had a bad dropped kick into touch.

When Kinghorn came on he was not bad, had a bit of spark about him.

The NZ team were fantastic though, their backs were massive in comparison to ours, faster, and more skilful. Their forwards were more abrasive and could play very well ball in hand.

As RDW says, it was certainly men against boys!

by **RDW** Wed Jun 03, 2015 9:19 am

What was noticable was both the age of the NZ players and the clubs they play for. Most of them seemed to be 20, whereas a lot of our guys were 18/19. Even a year is a massive difference in physicality at that level.

Also, a lot of the NZ boys were already involved in high level rugby. Compare that to someone who plays for Edinburgh Accies in front of 50 people at Raeburn place - no wonder we get pumped.

by aucklandlaurie Wed Jun 03, 2015 9:30 am

Yes a number of our kids have played ITM cup and a few have had some Super Rugby game time. together with the fact that they are playing their second year of under 20s is an adavantage.

Sean Lineen is a wily old exponent of the game he will go away and get rid of those niggly little mistakes real quick.

by Steven_Sharks Wed Jun 03, 2015 10:24 am

I thought Ben Vellacott looked handy. That NZ line up was one of the best under 20 sides I've seen since the England side with Clifford, Nowell and Slade won a few years back.

by Majestic83 Thu Jun 04, 2015 2:45 pm

I think if Scotland put out their strongest team for the Ireland and Argentina game they can get 2 wins. It wasn't their best starting line up against NZ but even then I think Scotland would have been beaten but probably not by as much.
The players that didn't play or who were only on the bench to come back into the side will be Murray McCallum who helped steady the scrum when he came on, Zander Fagerson, Magnus Bradbury, Neil Irvine-Hess, George Horne, Patrick Kelly, Robbie Nairn. Nairn was supposed to start the first game but pulled out just before kick off with injury so hopefully its nothing too serious.
Despite the defeat I was impressed with one or two players, James Ritchie put in a very good shift, Ally Miller performed well, Lewis Carmichael certainly looks a real prospect in the 2nd row. Ruarai Howarth at Full Back was probably the stand out in the backs. Secure under the high ball and ran the ball back well.
Wasn't overly impressed with Hutchison at fly half, 3 or 4 very bad kicks from hand and looked like a rabbit caught in head lights at times. Callum Sheldon the tighthead took a battering in the scrum, a very big guy at 130kg I think but was thrown around like a rag doll by the all blacks hooker and loosehead.

by funnyExiledScot Thu Jun 04, 2015 3:31 pm

I think Howarth has a good chance of making the Edinburgh team next season. Our full backs are Cuthbert, Brown and McLennan - hardly an inspiring trio - and Howarth will be pretty close to the sort of age that Hogg was making his breakthrough.

by Majestic83 Thu Jun 04, 2015 3:48 pm

Yeah I think you could be right, he certainly looked a very good player and had good pace. Out of the Scotland team he certainly seemed one of the more physically ready to take on the All Blacks.
He should have a decent boot on him as he started out as a stand off I think.

by 123456789 Thu Jun 04, 2015 6:58 pm

Given the weakened nature of the team Scotland put out it will be interesting to see which of the starting teams end up providing more full Scotland caps...

by funnyExiledScot Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:45 pm

Majestic83 wrote:Yeah I think you could be right, he certainly looked a very good player and had good pace. Out of the Scotland team he certainly seemed one of the more physically ready to take on the All Blacks.
He should have a decent boot on him as he started out as a stand off I think.

Well funnily enough we have a vacancy at 10 as well.......

by highland_scot Fri Jun 05, 2015 10:40 pm

So, it seems that the best on our team at Drop Goals is...

Zander Fagerson, TH prop!

by highland_scot Sat Jun 06, 2015 3:58 pm

We REALLY need to go back to catching school. This is appalling.

by **RDW** Sat Jun 06, 2015 4:00 pm

Basic errors letting us down.

by highland_scot Sat Jun 06, 2015 4:05 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Basic errors letting us down.

Howarth making quite a few.

by Imperialbigdave Sat Jun 06, 2015 4:05 pm

Howarth having a bit of a shocker.

by **RDW** Sat Jun 06, 2015 4:13 pm

Far too many mistakes!

by Imperialbigdave Sat Jun 06, 2015 4:27 pm

Ok, so for the second half...

Clearly were focusing on the forwards driving over the gainline. Start doing it in pods spread across the pitch and stretch the irish defence. At the moment were just piling through at the same part of the pitch until we run out of forwards and the last one gets isolated.

Horne needs to continue keeping the pace up, but watch out for miscommunication with the fowards. Too much disconnect between what hes trying to do and what theyre trying to do.

Bradbury needs to keep his game tighter, hes not having his best day, but when he is getting on the ball hes making good carries.

The centres really arent up to much, but thats been the story all season. Weve been spoiled by watching Mark Bennett carve defences open for the past few years. They just need to play solid games and create space for Nairn on the outside to do the rest. He had a run early in the game that gave us a glimpse of what hes capable of.

Coombes needs to get into the game full stop. Hes far too quiet a winger, and not just in this game.

by highland_scot Sat Jun 06, 2015 4:36 pm

Screwing up a try scoring opportunity there by forgetting we actually have backs... We'll just keep it in the forwards until someone knocks it on!

by **RDW** Sat Jun 06, 2015 4:42 pm

We've been crap, and spurned several chances, but a try now and we're right back in it!

by highland_scot Sat Jun 06, 2015 4:44 pm

This reminds me of Scotland seniors under Robinson - we make lots of linebreaks and look good, then get white line fever, and make numerous brainfarts in between the linebreaks.

by **RDW** Sat Jun 06, 2015 4:48 pm

Why take a quick tap in the 22??

by **RDW** Sat Jun 06, 2015 4:49 pm

Number 20 has made a difference and brought some direct running in

by highland_scot Sat Jun 06, 2015 4:55 pm

How on earth was the Irish 7 supporting his own weight there?!

by highland_scot Sat Jun 06, 2015 4:59 pm

Also, we need to be "cleverer" with going to ground to stop these turnovers. That, and be more aggresive in clearing out the man hanging over the ruck

by **RDW** Sat Jun 06, 2015 5:05 pm

Our sub scrum half is tiny!

by highland_scot Sat Jun 06, 2015 5:06 pm

KEEP THE DAMN BALL AND STOP DROPPING THE DAMN THING!!!!!!!!!!!!

Smile

by **RDW** Sat Jun 06, 2015 5:07 pm

We'd be home and dry if it wasn't for the many, many knock ons!

by **RDW** Sat Jun 06, 2015 5:12 pm

It would have been amazing if Ireland somehow found a way to lose that, but it is entirely down to Scotland's mistakes that we didn't go for the win

by **RDW** Sat Jun 06, 2015 5:15 pm

Finally!

by highland_scot Sat Jun 06, 2015 5:15 pm

Aaaaand now we score, once it's all over.

by **BigGee** Sun Jun 07, 2015 9:05 am

I watched the game last night and we only have ourselves to blame for losing that, we absolutely dominated the second half. Far to many mistakes, even allowing for the fact that all the players were melting in those conditions.

Plenty of promise though, but definitely one that got away!

by **George Carlin** Wed Jun 10, 2015 8:02 am

Lewis Carmichael gets a 9 week ban for gouging:
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby/latest/scotland-under-20s-lock-gets-nine-week-ban-1-3797674

Nathan Hines needs to have a quiet word.

by **RDW** Wed Jun 10, 2015 8:25 am

I fear we're going to get steamrollered by the Argie pack - they dominated NZ up front and only just lost, and we certainly ain't got the firepower that New Zealand have to get us out of jail!

by **George Carlin** Wed Jun 10, 2015 8:33 am

Yes, the Mini Blackness only won by kicking a last minute penalty.
We are going to get squished.

These new academies cannot get up and running soon enough. Our lack of conditioning and meaningful competitive matches is shown up more starkly at U18 and U20 level than any other. I am quite sure that a number of the Argies will have Super Rugby experience already.

by **RDW** Wed Jun 10, 2015 8:38 am

It is strange that we looked generally competitive during the 6N, but look like boys against men in this world cup so far. Even Ireland seemed to be a lot bigger than us. It is pretty much the same squad as in the 6N.

We're maybe being a bit harsh here - we got humped by the ABs (we always do) and had the chance of an undeserved win against the Irish, so results wise it is as to be expected.

It is just a shame to see us so underpowered and making so many mistakes.

by Majestic83 Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:11 am

George Carlin wrote:Lewis Carmichael gets a 9 week ban for gouging:
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby/latest/scotland-under-20s-lock-gets-nine-week-ban-1-3797674

Nathan Hines needs to have a quiet word.

Very harsh call on Carmichael. I remember the incident during the game. Carmichael and one of the opposition were grappling in the middle of the maul. The Irish guy had his arm round Carmichael's neck and pulling him backwards. Carmichael put his hand out to try to push the guy off and pushed him in the face.
Would think he and the SRU have a good case for appeal.

by CraigS1874 Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:27 am

Majestic83 wrote:
George Carlin wrote:Lewis Carmichael gets a 9 week ban for gouging:
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby/latest/scotland-under-20s-lock-gets-nine-week-ban-1-3797674

Nathan Hines needs to have a quiet word.

Very harsh call on Carmichael. I remember the incident during the game. Carmichael and one of the opposition were grappling in the middle of the maul. The Irish guy had his arm round Carmichael's neck and pulling him backwards. Carmichael put his hand out to try to push the guy off and pushed him in the face.
Would think he and the SRU have a good case for appeal.

Cant say I have seen the incident however I have played a lot of rugby with Lewis and he is not a dirty player, if anything sometimes he needed to become more aggressive. I hope this doesn't alter his chances of getting a pro contract!
And yeah I have a feeling we could struggle against the argies, the bookies make them clear favorites

by Majestic83 Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:43 am

CraigS1874 wrote:
Majestic83 wrote:
George Carlin wrote:Lewis Carmichael gets a 9 week ban for gouging:
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby/latest/scotland-under-20s-lock-gets-nine-week-ban-1-3797674

Nathan Hines needs to have a quiet word.

Very harsh call on Carmichael. I remember the incident during the game. Carmichael and one of the opposition were grappling in the middle of the maul. The Irish guy had his arm round Carmichael's neck and pulling him backwards. Carmichael put his hand out to try to push the guy off and pushed him in the face.
Would think he and the SRU have a good case for appeal.
Cant say I have seen the incident however I have played a lot of rugby with Lewis and he is not a dirty player, if anything sometimes he needed to become more aggressive. I hope this doesn't alter his chances of getting a pro contract!
And yeah I have a feeling we could struggle against the argies, the bookies make them clear favorites

To be honest I wouldn't even say it was an incident. Probably happens a dozen times during a game when the forwards are grappling in mauls and at ruck times. Yes his hand was on the guys face but more trying to push him away instead of a gouging motion.
World rugby really needs to sort out the sightings, disciplinary procedures and bans so that there is consistency across all levels. 9 weeks really is a disgrace when you see what others have gotten for far worse!
The ref was right there and saw it and obviously didn't think there was anything in it!

by **profitius** Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:46 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:It is strange that we looked generally competitive during the 6N, but look like boys against men in this world cup so far. Even Ireland seemed to be a lot bigger than us. It is pretty much the same squad as in the 6N.

We're maybe being a bit harsh here - we got humped by the ABs (we always do) and had the chance of an undeserved win against the Irish, so results wise it is as to be expected.

It is just a shame to see us so underpowered and making so many mistakes.

Interesting perception of it. Scotland were 5kgs heavier than Ireland on average. That's 11 pounds.
As for their match vs Argentina today, I think they can win it. Didn't they rest players against NZ. That means they should be relatively fresh. Just get the maul going and stop all the errors

by **RDW** Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:50 am

profitius wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:It is strange that we looked generally competitive during the 6N, but look like boys against men in this world cup so far. Even Ireland seemed to be a lot bigger than us. It is pretty much the same squad as in the 6N.

We're maybe being a bit harsh here - we got humped by the ABs (we always do) and had the chance of an undeserved win against the Irish, so results wise it is as to be expected.

It is just a shame to see us so underpowered and making so many mistakes.

Interesting perception of it. Scotland were 5kgs heavier than Ireland on average. That's 11 pounds.
As for their match vs Argentina today, I think they can win it. Didn't they rest players against NZ. That means they should be relatively fresh. Just get the maul going and stop all the errors

Surprising to hear that. Replace 'bigger' with 'physical' and it would maybe be more accurate.

Our outside backs are especially fragile - against both teams we were turned over a lot when we went wide because our backs were just blown away at the rucks.

As I said I'm maybe being a bit harsh - NZ were certainly much bigger and more physical, but that was to be expected! Unfortunately I expect Argentina to be the same.

by **profitius** Wed Jun 10, 2015 2:57 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
profitius wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:It is strange that we looked generally competitive during the 6N, but look like boys against men in this world cup so far. Even Ireland seemed to be a lot bigger than us. It is pretty much the same squad as in the 6N.

We're maybe being a bit harsh here - we got humped by the ABs (we always do) and had the chance of an undeserved win against the Irish, so results wise it is as to be expected.

It is just a shame to see us so underpowered and making so many mistakes.

Interesting perception of it. Scotland were 5kgs heavier than Ireland on average. That's 11 pounds.
As for their match vs Argentina today, I think they can win it. Didn't they rest players against NZ. That means they should be relatively fresh. Just get the maul going and stop all the errors

Surprising to hear that. Replace 'bigger' with 'physical' and it would maybe be more accurate.

Our outside backs are especially fragile - against both teams we were turned over a lot when we went wide because our backs were just blown away at the rucks.

As I said I'm maybe being a bit harsh - NZ were certainly much bigger and more physical, but that was to be expected! Unfortunately I expect Argentina to be the same.

Scotland were the more physical team against Ireland from what I saw. They have to improve their skills though.

NZ have big outside backs but Argentina's are average to small. They got 2 tries from mauls against NZ but the Scots should defend that better. I think it'll be a low scoring game and tight.

by Tattie Scones RRN Wed Jun 10, 2015 3:42 pm

Good start from Scotland......3-0 up inside 10 mins

by **RDW** Wed Jun 10, 2015 3:43 pm

Text commentary here for anyone at work

https://www.ultimaterugby.com/match/argentina-u20%27s-vs-scotland-u20%27s-at-stadio-san-michele-10th-jun-2015/7649/chat

Sounds like Argentina haven't had the ball yet!

by **RDW** Wed Jun 10, 2015 3:55 pm

9-0 and an Argie in the bin

by highland_scot Wed Jun 10, 2015 3:59 pm

By the sounds of this commentary we have opted to keep the scoreboard ticking over rather than camp out on the line in the hope of tries.

by **RDW** Wed Jun 10, 2015 4:01 pm

No surprise to see Scottish professional teams give away cheap points straight from kick offs when you see our youth teams doing the same!

by **George Carlin** Wed Jun 10, 2015 4:05 pm

Apparently we are spanking their bottom at scrum time.

Who knew?

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