Samoa v New Zealand, 8 July

by **George Carlin** Tue 30 Jun 2015, 2:04 pm

First topic message reminder :

SAMOA v NEW ZEALAND
8 July 2015
KO: 3pm local, 2pm NZ, 12pm Australia
Apia Park, Apia

Live on Fox Sports 3, SHD Supersport, Sky Sport 1 New Zealand and Sky Sports 1

Coverage on Sky Sports 1 from 2.45 am UK/Ireland time

Referee: Jaco Peyper (SA)
Assistant Referees: Jaco's Mates
TMO: Some Bloke

A. Recent History

5 Played 5
0 Won 5
5 Lost 0
308 Points For 56
56 Points Against 308
+252 Points Difference -252

B. Squads

1. Manu Samoa

Wayne Ole Avei, Ma'atulimanu Leiataua, Viliamu Afatia, Census Johnston, Anthony Perenise, Sakaria Taulafo, Kane Thompson, Teofilo Paulo, Iosefa Tekori, Faatiga Lemalu, Alafoti Faosiliva, Jack Lam, Ofisa Trevarinus, Maurie Faasavalu, TJ Ioane, Kahn Fotualii, Peleifofoga Cowley, Tusiata Pisi, Michael Stanley, Alofa Alofa, Ken Pisi, Alesana Tuilagi, Faialaga Afamasaga, Johnny Leota, Paul Perez, Tim Nanai Williams, Ah See Tuala

2. New Zealand**

Backs - Israel Dagg, Charles Piutau, Ben Smith, Nehe Milner Skudder*, Cory Jane, Waisake Naholo*, Julian Savea, Malakai Fekitoa, Conrad Smith, Sonny Bill Williams, Ma'a Nonu, Ryan Crotty, Colin Slade, Lima Sopoaga*, Dan Carter, Beauden Barrett, Aaron Smith, TJ Perenara, Tawera Kerr-Barlow, Charlie Ngatai*, Seta Tamanivalu*, Tom Taylor, Andy Ellis, George Moala*, Brad Weber*

Forwards - Kieran Read, Victor Vito, Liam Messam, Jerome Kaino, Sam Cane, Richie McCaw, Matt Todd, Luke Romano, Sam Whitelock, Brodie Retallick, Jeremy Thrush, James Broadhurst*, Dane Coles, Keven Mealamu, Codie Taylor*, Hika Elliot, Wyatt Crockett, Tony Woodcock, Ben Franks, Owen Franks, Joe Moody, Charlie Faumuina, Nepo Laulala*, Ofa Tu'ungafasi*

* = Denotes an uncapped player.

** = The squad will be reduced to 29 players for this match. 17 members of the listed squad have been declared ineligible for selection due to Super Rugby commitments.

C. Teams

1. Manu Samoa
Samoa v New Zealand, 8 July - Page 2 Theres10

Samoa v New Zealand, 8 July - Page 2 Theres10

(1-15): Sakaria Taulafo, Ole Avei, Census Johnston, Teofilo Paulo, Kane Thompson, Alafoti Faosiliva, Jack Lam, Ofisa Treviranus (c), Kahn Fotualii, Tusi Pisi, Alesana Tuilagi, Johnny Leota, Paul Perez, Alofa Alofa, Tim Nanai-Williams

Reserves: Ma’atulimanu Leiataua, Viliamu Afatia, Anthony Perenise, Joe Tekori, Maurie Faasavalu, Pele Cowley, Faialaga Afamasaga, Ken Pisi

2. New Zealand
Samoa v New Zealand, 8 July - Page 2 Rose-m11

Samoa v New Zealand, 8 July - Page 2 Rose-m11

(1-15): Tony Woodcock, Keven Mealamu, Owen Franks, Luke Romano, Sam Whitelock, Jerome Kaino, Richie McCaw (c), Kieran Read, Andy Ellis, Daniel Carter, Charles Piutau, Sonny Bill Williams, Ryan Crotty, George Moala, Israel Dagg

Reserves: Hika Elliot, Wyatt Crockett, Nepo Laulala, Brodie Retallick, Matt Todd, Brad Weber, Colin Slade, Charlie Ngatai

by **Notch** Wed 08 Jul 2015, 1:06 pm

Big hits and handling errors- interesting to see the number of penalties given away for offside. Both teams looking for brutal line speed in defence- always going to be difficult to execute backs moves under that kind of pressure, especially given these teams have not been together very long at all. Very glad it wasn't a one-sided game given the occasion.

Will be interesting to see Scotland vs Samoa in the World Cup. Promises to be a very interesting game.

by **George Carlin** Wed 08 Jul 2015, 1:41 pm

Notch wrote:Big hits and handling errors- interesting to see the number of penalties given away for offside. Both teams looking for brutal line speed in defence- always going to be difficult to execute backs moves under that kind of pressure, especially given these teams have not been together very long at all. Very glad it wasn't a one-sided game given the occasion.

Will be interesting to see Scotland vs Samoa in the World Cup. Promises to be a very interesting game.

If by that you mean, "absolutely terrifying from a Scotland perspective", then yes.

by **Notch** Wed 08 Jul 2015, 2:05 pm

I think Scotland will win. But it promises to be one of the most pivotal games of the group stages.

by Fanster Wed 08 Jul 2015, 2:22 pm

I watched the highlights hoping that Samoa were going to highlight what they have lacked for years, however with Pisi at 10 the structure just isnt there.

His goalkicking was impressive, but too many floor balls, no huge threat from him, although like I said I only saw the highlights so maybe I am judging him unfairly.

What looked impressive was the counter rucking and breakdown work from Samoa, sadly mostly individual stuff but there will be a lot of sore All black bodies after that test!!

Scotland can't allow the Samoa pack to gain too many yards, drop them early and drop them low, a few kiwi players who went for the big wrestle were either shrugged off or sat down...

That Samoan try though, fair play to 6 (Who is he?) that was a pearler, breaking 4/5 tackles in 2 charges to go over.

by **George Carlin** Wed 08 Jul 2015, 3:02 pm

Fanster - the try scorer was Bath's very own Alafoti Fa'osiliva. Big beastie.

by PrichardThatcher Wed 08 Jul 2015, 7:27 pm

I thought that the All Blacks were doing their level best not to get hurt. They looked shy of contact. Dan Carter is a shadow of himself and McCaw is over the hill, a liability who now gives away penalty after penalty. Israel Dagg offered nothing. The New Zealand set piece was shaky and behind the scrum it was lateral and predictable - largely basketball flicks to avoid getting tackled.

The only player who advanced his cause was Nepo Laulala. The rest looked inconvenienced, like they couldn't wait to get on a plane home.

This All Black squad is living on reputation and not going to feature at the World Cup.

by kingelderfield Wed 08 Jul 2015, 8:25 pm

Was well worth getting up for, rugby was the winner today.

by Gwlad Thu 09 Jul 2015, 2:09 am

Samoa will beat South Africa

by Fanster Thu 09 Jul 2015, 10:30 am

PrichardThatcher wrote:I thought that the All Blacks were doing their level best not to get hurt. They looked shy of contact. Dan Carter is a shadow of himself and McCaw is over the hill, a liability who now gives away penalty after penalty. Israel Dagg offered nothing. The New Zealand set piece was shaky and behind the scrum it was lateral and predictable - largely basketball flicks to avoid getting tackled.

The only player who advanced his cause was Nepo Laulala. The rest looked inconvenienced, like they couldn't wait to get on a plane home.

This All Black squad is living on reputation and not going to feature at the World Cup.

That is harsh, Samoa were extremley physical, and from the very start looked to impose themselves, and I will agree NZ made a fair amout of more passes either pre or out of contact than they will against other teams, but I think that was more a way of moving the point of contact away from the ferocious breakdown work by Samoa.

Writing NZ off is a fools task, with the amount of talent they have available, but they certainly looked the lesser of the 2 teams physically, Williams especially in the centre, every time he looked to take them on he was either flattened or lost the ball.

by Fanster Thu 09 Jul 2015, 10:30 am

PrichardThatcher wrote:I thought that the All Blacks were doing their level best not to get hurt. They looked shy of contact. Dan Carter is a shadow of himself and McCaw is over the hill, a liability who now gives away penalty after penalty. Israel Dagg offered nothing. The New Zealand set piece was shaky and behind the scrum it was lateral and predictable - largely basketball flicks to avoid getting tackled.

The only player who advanced his cause was Nepo Laulala. The rest looked inconvenienced, like they couldn't wait to get on a plane home.

This All Black squad is living on reputation and not going to feature at the World Cup.

by Fanster Thu 09 Jul 2015, 10:31 am

PrichardThatcher wrote:I thought that the All Blacks were doing their level best not to get hurt. They looked shy of contact. Dan Carter is a shadow of himself and McCaw is over the hill, a liability who now gives away penalty after penalty. Israel Dagg offered nothing. The New Zealand set piece was shaky and behind the scrum it was lateral and predictable - largely basketball flicks to avoid getting tackled.

The only player who advanced his cause was Nepo Laulala. The rest looked inconvenienced, like they couldn't wait to get on a plane home.

This All Black squad is living on reputation and not going to feature at the World Cup.

by emack2 Thu 09 Jul 2015, 11:13 am

A proper Test match Samoa are arguably the strongest of the Pacific sides and at full
strength no longer easy beats.

A typical first out NZ game by very much a scratch team,many of whom are game short
after injury layoffs.

Squad living on there reputations?many first choices not involved.McCaw finished how
many times has that been said.

As to trying to involve injuries in RWC year standard practice and shadow sides sacrifice
games in favour of a possible RWC.

DC may no longer be the man he was but is still very good by most standards,the depth
in NZ is legend.

The ideas of saving everything for the sacred cow makes me cringe but is a fact of life.

A team ready for the taking?many have tried few succeeded,NZ may well not retain the
RWC its never been done.

Then the "Chokers" jibe will return,but how about the real "Chokers" if your into jibes
England ,3 Finals 1 win never beaten NZ in a RWC.

Or France 3 Finals,nil wins,2 wins v NZ and the effort was such tghey didn't feature in
the next round.

I don`t do jibes and Wums,you don`t assume RESPECT you earn it,look at NZ`s Record
in and out of the RWC.

Most successful team on games won/lost in RWC,20th[just] and 21st century to date.
and overall.

ALL teams lose sometimes. and players age too ,But look at the NZ teenies both sexes
4-5 up [no contact]showing skills to shame test players BELIEVE.

by No 7&1/2 Thu 09 Jul 2015, 11:17 am

Chokers can't really be applied to a team who aren't really expected to win and shoudln't be applied to a team who actually play well and lose. Just my opinion.

by Cyril Thu 09 Jul 2015, 11:20 am

Good to see emack has got his steam-powered typewriter out again to defend the honour of his adopted nation Wink

by emack2 Thu 09 Jul 2015, 11:46 am

Hi,Cyril not been much to talk about here,just back from Hospital stay with serious chest
complaint.TV rip off in there has to be seen to be believed double normal rates no free
after 12am even then only 1-4 plus cee beebies. furious

Will England win again squad seems bedevilled with injury problems.Will they even
make it out of the Group Erm

You look at the progress under Lancaster and think they are getting there and probably
could field 6 teams of roughly equal strength Smile

You know my opinion of the RWC all joking apart,England to win will need to beat all 3
SH sides a big ask. laughing

As to defending NZ who need s to there record over103 years speaks for itself,they
got it right. Hug

Nice to hear from you keep taking the tablets.

by Cyril Thu 09 Jul 2015, 11:51 am

Hope you're feeling better soon, Alan

I'm sure you'll enjoy the RWC especially with it being at home Smile

England won't have an easy route but I think home advantage will counter-balance that a bit.

The tablets are doing fine. It's when I forget to take them...

by emack2 Thu 09 Jul 2015, 1:04 pm

A valid opinion 7and1/2,since NZ were beaten by Aus and France pre 1987 and,1991,1999,2003.
WERE certainly NOT favourites and were AUS`s big years.They certainly weren't "Chokes"
nor 1995 or 2007 where they were arguably the best team there.They lost to the best sides
on the day so why the jibes?

by No 7&1/2 Thu 09 Jul 2015, 1:13 pm

They choked against France for me. Maybe 95 as well. They've got a lot stronger in that respect now though. Hoping they choke against England in the final!

by emack2 Thu 09 Jul 2015, 1:31 pm

Easy to say in 1995 after 120 minutes is a "Choke"then AUS did too in 2003 had Merhts
or Larkham`s drop gone over.1995/2003 results reversed.

In 2007 it is easy for those used to JW the worlds record drop kick specialist to set up a
to win a match.

In an environment with an inexperienced captain,the only two possible drop kickers off
injured an a culture where the drop had gone out of fashion.

Not an excuse but hardly "CHOKING" avery cheap jibe incidentally England had high expectatations in 1991.

by No 7&1/2 Thu 09 Jul 2015, 1:34 pm

Aus weren't near to being the best in 03 so wouldn't apply chokers to them, that France match NZ just didn't play smart rugby which has led them to become a better team in my eyes realising you have to take the easy points sometimes. It's not a wholly bad thing, it basically says mistakes were made or you froze but should have done better. By you I mean NZ in the last point.

by **rodders** Fri 10 Jul 2015, 9:27 am

Despite the stoppages this was pretty entertaining and although the ABs looked comfortable throughout, Samoa will be a real handful in the RWC on this evidence.

Some serious collisions!

by yappysnap Sat 11 Jul 2015, 9:40 am

Do Samoa now go into the Pacific Nations cup? So if anything they should get stronger before the RWC?

They still need to work on their set piece as that let them down other then a couple of mauls, and their play from 9 and 10 needs to improve.

Get Sinoti in there too!

by aucklandlaurie Sat 11 Jul 2015, 9:43 am

Further to the Samoa game, this afternoon the Maori All Blacks defeated Fiji 27 - 26. up in Fiji.

This win now extends the Maoris run of consecutive victories in Internationals to 19.

by emack2 Sat 11 Jul 2015, 12:05 pm

On seeing the match in full as well as Super Final[only saw highlights previously]these
are my thoughts.
A huge occasion even historical a full strength Samoa side,at home,in extreme humid
conditions.Players were sweating running on before kick off.,It was a delight to watch
great atmospheres,and a sensible commentary no endless chatter.
The context is important a fired up full strength side well trained together against a mix
experienced and not so with little game time together.
The nearest parallel can suggest is teams like Cardiff,Waikato,etc ambushing old style
touring sides before they got there combinations right.
Samoa at home have a 60 % win record.NZ respected the game naming on paper a very
strong side.I wonder if any other scratch Test side would have done better,it was one
NH supporters would have been familiar with,offside rushing brutal defence,stop,start
setpiece dominated.kicking penalty fest,
Samoa achieved there best ever result,NZ that they can win ugly too,Carter had a very
good game.Kicked his Goals,defended well and his cross kicks may have on another day
had 3 tries.
McCaw past it?MR Pritchard he was immense and everywhere.Wonder how much of
the Samoan disruption in 8,9,10 area was down to Kahn Faouali.[I rate him among best
4 SH`s in world.Was down to his time at the Crusaders with the players concerned.
Lessons to consider,Off side will be Reffed very strictly in RWC and after.,NZ do brutal with the best as well,as the fancy dan stuff.
When you consider the youngsters introduced,and at home fully match fit a back line
Servea,B.Smith,Naholo,C.Smith,Nonu,D.Carter and A.Smith.A pack of Woodcock/Crockett
Coles ,Franks,Whitelock,Retalick,Kaino,Read,McCaw.as a starting lineup.
THAT is not a team that`s past it,they may well not win the RWC,be very surprised if they
do.BUT they will be no walkover for anyside frankly had Barrett who cost the Canes a S16,
or Cruden been at 10,
Samoa would have posted there first win your Goalkicker matters most why didn't Marshall
do the job?

by **LondonTiger** Sat 11 Jul 2015, 12:20 pm

aucklandlaurie wrote: This win now extends the Maoris run of consecutive victories in Internationals to 19.

Not such an impressive streak if you include matches against club sides.

by Guest Sat 11 Jul 2015, 1:19 pm

Club sides?

by **LondonTiger** Sat 11 Jul 2015, 4:06 pm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/club/9676587/Leicester-32-New-Zealand-Maori-24-match-report.html

by Guest Sat 11 Jul 2015, 4:18 pm

Right you are. Not really an impressive winning streak. Still, they do ok beating Canada, Japan, USA, Samoa etc over the years.

by **LondonTiger** Sat 11 Jul 2015, 6:01 pm

Indeed they do.

I suspect I may have seen their last two defeats having also been at Twickenham when a Tom Croft run in saw the Saxons beat them 8 years ago.

by aucklandlaurie Sat 11 Jul 2015, 9:39 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote: This win now extends the Maoris run of consecutive victories in Internationals to 19.

Not such an impressive streak if you include matches against club sides.

I think its an impressive streak:

1. Canada...65 - 27.
2. Canada...30 - 9.
3. U.S.A....30 - 9.
4. Fiji...29 - 27.
5. British & Ireland Lions...19 - 13.
6. U.S.A....74 - 6.
7. Canada...59 - 23.
8. Tonga...20 - 9.
9. Fiji...11 - 7.
10. Samoa...17 - 6.
11. Japan...65 - 25.
12. Ireland...31 - 25.
13. England...35 - 28.
14. Canada...32 - 19.
15. Canada...29 - 19.
16. U.S.A....29 - 19.
17. Japan...61 - 21.
18. Japan...20 - 18.
19. Fiji...27 - 26.

I was only talking about Consecutive matches against Internatinal teams.

Perhaps the run is only 18, and maybe I shouldnt have included the B&I Lions as they dont compete in the Rugby World Cup, but all the others do.

by **LondonTiger** Sat 11 Jul 2015, 10:46 pm

It is impressive, though as I was trying to point out they did lose to a club side.

And for completenes it should also be pointed out they were in some of those playing representative sides rather than International Sides. (ie churchill cup games are often against 3rd/4th choice players).

The Maoris have a record they should be proud of, so no real need to over-exagerate.

by aucklandlaurie Sun 12 Jul 2015, 2:10 am

And in turn then you would have to acknowledge that New Zealand Maori often play with out their possible first choice players. I cant remember the last time guys like Liam Messam, Israel Dagg, Corey Jane, Tawera Kerr-Barlow, Dan Carter, Aaron Cruden, Aaron Smith and TJ Perenara were available for the Maori selectors.

Just thought I'd mention it in the interests of completeness.

by LordDowlais Sun 12 Jul 2015, 12:14 pm

Well New Zealand will not be playing any more games in Samoa:-

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3551_61847,00.html

by **Notch** Sun 12 Jul 2015, 1:26 pm

Nor will most other teams to be fair- except maybe in a Lions year or a World Cup year like this one where the NH teams don't tour.

We knew this already; it's financially driven.

by **Rugby Fan** Sun 12 Jul 2015, 2:21 pm

The original headline to this NZ Herald piece by Gregor Paul (a Scot), encouraging more teams to go there, read something like "Teams need to follow New Zealand's lead", as if the All Blacks had broken new ground, rather than looked to get a monkey off their back.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11479514

Everyone who advocates more fixtures there is right but a big reason England, France and The Lions don't currently go there is because NZ and Australia want all the time the big touring sides have to give when they travel to that part of the world..

Scotland and Italy both travelled to Apia and Wales have done so in the past too.

by rainbow-warrior Sun 12 Jul 2015, 3:35 pm

Wales tour NZ next year with a 3 test series, huge games and I used to think why they could not have a warm up game in Samoa. Then you think that there is no such thing as a warm up against Manu and have to factor in how many injured would you pick up? All that said possible a three test series of the PI's ain't a bad thing, Samoa, Fiji and Tonga would be a great tester for any nation and a great one for the fans too Smile

by brennomac Tue 14 Jul 2015, 12:19 pm

aucklandlaurie wrote:And in turn then you would have to acknowledge that New Zealand Maori often play with out their possible first choice players. I cant remember the last time guys like Liam Messam, Israel Dagg, Corey Jane, Tawera Kerr-Barlow, Dan Carter, Aaron Cruden, Aaron Smith and TJ Perenara were available for the Maori selectors.

Just thought I'd mention it in the interests of completeness.

Laurie, never knew DC is a Maori, just for info how does a player qualify fro the Maori team. Is it like the Irish soccer team of old, find out if you had one irish granny and hey presto you walked straight into the Irish team or what are the criteria.

by **George Carlin** Tue 14 Jul 2015, 7:40 pm

What lineage do you actually need to play for NZ Maori then?
One parent? Both parents? Or is it just enough to have an outstanding fern tattoo?

by Gwlad Tue 14 Jul 2015, 8:24 pm

George Carlin wrote:What lineage do you actually need to play for NZ Maori then?
One parent? Both parents? Or is it just enough to have an outstanding fern tattoo?

no no no, those are the requirements for the All Blacks.

by **Notch** Tue 14 Jul 2015, 9:58 pm

rainbow-warrior wrote:Wales tour NZ next year with a 3 test series, huge games and I used to think why they could not have a warm up game in Samoa. Then you think that there is no such thing as a warm up against Manu and have to factor in how many injured would you pick up? All that said possible a three test series of the PI's ain't a bad thing, Samoa, Fiji and Tonga would be a great tester for any nation and a great one for the fans too

Yeah I'd love to see that tour.

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