Pre World Cup Warm Up games.

Each nation is taking a different route in preparation for the RWC. The intensity of the games, the types of teams selected.

This weekend saw Wales and Ireland try a good number of players on the select oral fringes. Next week Lancaster aims to pick a strong team vs France, though there will inevitably be a relaxation on selecting some fringe players.

It is most interesting to see how the different nations vying for what could be one of the most closely contested RWCs yet. Altitude training, hot weather training, playing games, not playing games. Do you pick a 1st choice XV or do you hide your best for the big games...?

Much interesting deliberation on the strategies. Very few of the headcoaches in charge of nations incontention have experienced this tournament with their current teams. Will their calls be right or wrong....?

How confident are you I the method or madness of your teams pre RWC strategy...?


Still to play before the RWC..


SAT - 15TH AUG 15
07:35 International New Zealand - Australia
16:00 International Ireland - Scotland
19:00 International England - France
19:40 International Argentina - South Africa

SAT - 22ND AUG 15
09:00 International Japan - Uruguay
18:00 International Italy - Scotland
18:00 International France - England
20:00 International Canada - USA

SAT - 29TH AUG 15
09:00 International Japan - Uruguay
13:30 International Ireland - Wales
14:15 International Scotland - Italy

WED - 02ND SEP 15
18:30 International Canada - Georgia

SAT - 05TH SEP 15
23:00 International Romania - Tonga
13:30 International England - Ireland
15:30 International Japan - Georgia
16:00 International Wales - Italy
19:00 International USA - Australia
19:00 International France - Scotland

SUN - 06TH SEP 15
13:30 International Fiji - Canada


Ireland and Scotland will play one more game than England France Italy and Wales in the warm up matches.

The RC teams have played three games in four weeks and now have just one game left. Both ABs and the Boks will be looking for revenge for last weekends losses.

After this weekend only Australia, of the Rugby Championship SH teams, will play a further test. A one off against the USA

As always, the first Wales game was slow starting and out of sorts.

Glad that one is out of the way. I think Gatland will have learned more out of that one than Shmidt plus we didn't pick up any injuries.

Injuries are a key factor in the preparations

JDV out, Tommy out for Ireland...!

Ireland are risking a lot playing four matches, maybe even more so for Scotland.

Indeed - and they looked rather knackered in the last 10 minutes considering they barely had to any work all game.

Likewise the kiwi friends we took to Saturday's match were saying before their game vs Australia that it would not be a bad thing for the ANs to lose and remind themselves it's not an easy comp to win.

Not sure what the Irish players would have learnt from being flat track bullies either.

I think they learned that Earls, Murphy, Jackson, Cave, Reddan, Trimble and a few others look ready to fill gaps when needed.

Was that down to them or how poor Wales were though ?

They also let them back in the game to a certain extent - especially if Walker had a luckier bounce of the ball just before the 2nd half.

munkian wrote:Was that down to them or how poor Wales were though ?

They also let them back in the game to a certain extent - especially if Walker had a luckier bounce of the ball just before the 2nd half.

True, but it appeared very much an exhibition match.

Will Ireland gain anything more than that from playing Scotland next week? Beyond that how will France and England approach their first warm up ?

We have heard nothing of what the French have been up to in camp. They have a hugely talented pool of players. They could turn it up ???

I wouldn't say it was an exhibition match - very little creativity from Ireland - they were just far more clinical and pounced on our mistakes.

I think it will be a very different Welsh squad/performance in Dublin with far fewer 'fringe' players.

I'm sure Scotland will provide us with more of a test. I can't imagine Scotland being worse than that Wales team.

Ireland got to look at a few players/combinations on Saturday. Some of the players got some much needed game time, such as Trimble and Ryan. They also got the experience of playing with the roof closed, the noise, the greasy ball. All good. The only downside was the injury to TOD.

It would have been better for Ireland to have played against a Wales team that can compete, but Ireland will still take something from that game. As above.
I'm not so sure Wales can take much from the game at all. It can't be good for team spirit to take such a hammering.

munkian wrote:Indeed - and they looked rather knackered in the last 10 minutes considering they barely had to any work all game.

Do you really think so? I will need to have another look at that last 10 minutes, but the impression I had was of an Ireland team that took their foot of the gas with plenty left in the tank. Not so sure I can say the same of the Wales team.

Playing that badly yet still scoring 3 tries isn't that humiliating.

As I said before - getting the jittery game out of the way in what was a glorified warm up session isn't worth all the doom and gloom from fans.

We either think Wales are fantastic or gash - there is very little middle ground.

Munchkin wrote:

munkian wrote:Indeed - and they looked rather knackered in the last 10 minutes considering they barely had to any work all game.

Do you really think so? I will need to have another look at that last 10 minutes, but the impression I had was of an Ireland team that took their foot of the gas with plenty left in the tank. Not so sure I can say the same of the Wales team.

I wasn't far from the pitch and a lot of them looked like they were blowing out of their holes

munkian wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

munkian wrote:Indeed - and they looked rather knackered in the last 10 minutes considering they barely had to any work all game.

Do you really think so? I will need to have another look at that last 10 minutes, but the impression I had was of an Ireland team that took their foot of the gas with plenty left in the tank. Not so sure I can say the same of the Wales team.

I wasn't far from the pitch and a lot of them looked like they were blowing out of their holes

I wouldn't have been surprised if they had have been with it being the first test, playing with the roof closed and with many playing for a place in the RWC team. The same could be said for the Wales team. That wasn't the impression I had formed though. The impression I had was one of Ireland taking their foot of the gas with plenty still left in the tank. I can't say the same for Wales, but I would need to take another look.

Still time some time for both sides to get match fit, I suppose

Fairy nuff, maybe I was just looking for positives in rather disappointing game.

I'm not sure it was just 'taking foot off the pedal' - we improved with Toby, Anscombe and dare I say it Brynmoor Jnr coming on - we actually started to click ever so slightly.

munkian wrote:Fairy nuff, maybe I was just  looking for positives in rather disappointing game.

I'm not sure it was just 'taking foot off the pedal'  - we improved with Toby, Anscombe and dare I say it Brynmoor Jnr coming on - we actually started to click ever so slightly.  

And in that respect a lot was learnt. Dan Baker was lacklustre but we know he is better than his first half, likewise Lloyd and Anscombe proved they can get quick ball and make it work.

The loss of Tommu O' Donnell shook the Ireland team for sure. No one wants to befall injury at the moment. But the Welsh attack improved immeasurably with the change of halfbacks

The loss of JDV and TOD, both big losses will surely have an impact on the coaches selections for the upcoming matches.

Likewise the losses by the ABs and SA will cause opportunity for change.

It was a disappointing game for Wales, and I suppose from an Ireland perspective it was disappointing not to have more of a test. Wales won't play as badly again. I'm expecting a real test in the return game with Wales starting their strongest team and Ireland close to the strongest.
Wales did improve with guys coming of the bench, and you did score a couple of lovely tries.

I think our first choice squad will play against Italy - but the return test will certainly contain more 1st/2nd choice players.

I guess selection depends a lot if Samson and Liam are back from injury and if North is cleared.

Three key players for you, munkian. More so Samson at this point in time, although the return of Williams and North will be a huge boost with all three being vital for Wales progressing out of the group, I feel.

Munchkin wrote:Three key players for you, munkian. More so Samson at this point in time, although the return of Williams and North will be a huge boost with all three being vital for Wales progressing out of the group, I feel.

Agreed though I think if playing behind a competitive pack Amos, Walker and hopefully Tyler Morgan would have impressed more.

Hook's awful hospital passes didn't help.

munkian wrote:Indeed - and they looked rather knackered in the last 10 minutes considering they barely had to any work all game.

Well maybe that's down to their particular (Irish) conditioning pathways.  It's not just the Welsh who do the science and freezing and incubation temperature resonance dynamics of muscle cells in a vacuum

Maybe they're puffed because they are building slowly under their own precise preparation plans just like the Welsh?  Maybe if they didn't look like they were blowing out of their own holes by the end Joe would be very worried indeed???

Lot of maybes there

munkian wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Three key players for you, munkian. More so Samson at this point in time, although the return of Williams and North will be a huge boost with all three being vital for Wales progressing out of the group, I feel.

Agreed though I think if playing behind a competitive pack Amos, Walker and hopefully Tyler Morgan would have impressed more.

Hook's awful hospital passes didn't help.

We didn't really get to see what the backs have to offer, especially the new caps, as the pack was weak and didn't provide the platform that would have allowed them to really showcase their skills. For that reason any harsh criticism of those players would be unfair. It's not all bad though. Moriarty, Walker and Anscombe didn't come out of it too bad at all.

The back row was rather unbalanced too.

I think Ireland had more experienced players in key areas too.

There was a time when we had more experience than a few volumes of Encyclopedia Britannica and we were still losing.

I wouldn't put too much emphasis on the lack of experience.  Experience can often be another word for a team getting ready for the dreaded 'Transition' period!!!

Maybe Wales (the main team) are approaching that point?  A Main experienced team heading for 'transition' and wondering what's available on the lower shelves... hoping it doesn't have to play all games.

I think it's pretty unfair to bring in new caps when the rest of the side are such a hotch-potch. Ideally you want to bring in new players to relatively established units for a proper comparison rather than seeing them all trying to find their feet together.

That Wales/Ireland game reminded me of a Saxons/Wolfhounds game especially when it got messy.

I'm hoping that both France and Ireland put out strong sides against England for a proper test. Good to see Lancaster is aiming strong for the first game (especially given the inevitable rust that will have built up) and then experiment (within reason) for the next two games. Having said that, I don't see a big drop-off in quality for the England first and second choices in a lot of positions. Hopefully that should see them well during the inevitable raft of substitutions.

Cyril wrote:I think it's pretty unfair to bring in new caps when the rest of the side are such a hotch-potch. Ideally you want to bring in new players to relatively established units for a proper comparison rather than seeing them all trying to find their feet together.

That Wales/Ireland game reminded me of a Saxons/Wolfhounds game especially when it got messy.

I'm hoping that both France and Ireland put out strong sides against England for a proper test. Good to see Lancaster is aiming strong for the first game (especially given the inevitable rust that will have built up) and then experiment (within reason) for the next two games. Having said that, I don't see a big drop-off in quality for the England first and second choices in a lot of positions. Hopefully that should see them well during the inevitable raft of substitutions.

From a guy whose team can draw on a list of 50 or 60 hopefuls if any major player gets injured.

Nice

I hope we send out our Academy Greenhorns.  It would be great experience for them to play the Mighty England First Teamers....

SecretFly wrote:

Cyril wrote:I think it's pretty unfair to bring in new caps when the rest of the side are such a hotch-potch. Ideally you want to bring in new players to relatively established units for a proper comparison rather than seeing them all trying to find their feet together.

That Wales/Ireland game reminded me of a Saxons/Wolfhounds game especially when it got messy.

I'm hoping that both France and Ireland put out strong sides against England for a proper test. Good to see Lancaster is aiming strong for the first game (especially given the inevitable rust that will have built up) and then experiment (within reason) for the next two games. Having said that, I don't see a big drop-off in quality for the England first and second choices in a lot of positions. Hopefully that should see them well during the inevitable raft of substitutions.

From a guy whose team can draw on a list of 50 or 60 hopefuls if any major player gets injured.

Nice

I hope we send out our Academy Greenhorns.  It would be great experience for them to play the Mighty England First Teamers....

Hmmm, all I'm saying is I'd like to see some full-blooded tests (within reason). I don't see how blow-outs help either side at all. While I'm quite happy to bring up the 62-5 pre-2007 World Cup game between England and Wales I don't think there was a lot of point.

The Ireland/England game is the last one for both sides, yes?

No need to get all arsey!

Nope...I'm not being soft sopped into it.... it's the Greenhorns for you boys, Cyril.  We've already got one serious looking green bottle that fell from a wall during the alleged wallflower game at the weekend.  That could already prove costly enough as O'Donnell looks a genuine charger.  

I'd have personally maybe one blow out game just to get players camp in playing mode before a WC.  But I don't see the point in so many friendlies.... except as a Lottery of who goes and who gets left behind for either being schidt or being in hospital.

PS - and for those who retort that an injury can happen at anytime. Yes, and I much prefer them to happen in a WC pool where at least the injured player might have at least contributed to a win before being taken off on his stretcher. It's all about timing and preference

SecretFly wrote:

I'd have personally maybe one blow out game just to get players camp in playing mode before a WC.  But I don't see the point in so many friendlies.... except as a Lottery of who goes and who gets left behind for either being schidt or being in hospital.

Considering TOD now likely to be ruled out I wonder which direction Schmidt will go with selection

I would imagine he will select a similar standard team to the one he fielded in Cardiff.

In retrospect I am glad to see Wales have fewer games and more time training.

I would say that the RC nations fans will be thinking along similar lines.

There really should be no new caps in these games if the coach has done his planning properly. Maybe fair enough if there is an injury crisis with several casualties in one position and no chance of some of them returning, but otherwise what is the chance of any newbie starting an important game?

These games are the equivalent of Lions teams trying to gel before the main Tests, where every player should stand an equal chance of a starting shirt. Sure they run the risk of injury, but the coach should find out the form combinations and be mapping out his core teams for each pool game on the strength of that.

Schmidt is establishing a template for the pools with a training/selection/game/review pattern each week, which is why he has gone for four games rather than three.

The Great Aukster wrote:There really should be no new caps in these games if the coach has done his planning properly. Maybe fair enough if there is an injury crisis with several casualties in one position and no chance of some of them returning, but otherwise what is the chance of any newbie starting an important game?

These games are the equivalent of Lions teams trying to gel before the main Tests, where every player should stand an equal chance of a starting shirt. Sure they run the risk of injury, but the coach should find out the form combinations and be mapping out his core teams for each pool game on the strength of that.

Schmidt is establishing a template for the pools with a training/selection/game/review pattern each week, which is why he has gone for four games rather than three.

I agree with you in some ways but the larger training squads we have seen over the past few weeks with nearly fifty players are always large enough to encompass a few uncapped players. If those lads are doing well in training then they should get a run out.

Every player on the Welsh team had a list of black marks across some aspect of their performance. Though some far less than others.

For the stage Wales appear to be at, I would say that their decision to field who they did was justified.

Similarly for Ireland. A good few players wrote their names into the 31 man squad on Saturday.

The Great Aukster wrote:

Schmidt is establishing a template for the pools with a training/selection/game/review pattern each week, which is why he has gone for four games rather than three.

Makes sense. Never considered that rhythm ... but then I'm not studious and meticulous like ol' Joe. I just hope he has a functional squad to select From come the first game of the WC itself.

maestegmafia wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

I'd have personally maybe one blow out game just to get players camp in playing mode before a WC.  But I don't see the point in so many friendlies.... except as a Lottery of who goes and who gets left behind for either being schidt or being in hospital.

Considering TOD now likely to be ruled out I wonder which direction Schmidt will go with selection

I would imagine he will select a similar standard team to the one he fielded in Cardiff.

In retrospect I am glad to see Wales have fewer games and more time training.

I would say that the RC nations fans will be thinking along similar lines.

Not if they're only doing conditioning work!

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

I'd have personally maybe one blow out game just to get players camp in playing mode before a WC.  But I don't see the point in so many friendlies.... except as a Lottery of who goes and who gets left behind for either being schidt or being in hospital.

Considering TOD now likely to be ruled out I wonder which direction Schmidt will go with selection

I would imagine he will select a similar standard team to the one he fielded in Cardiff.

In retrospect I am glad to see Wales have fewer games and more time training.

I would say that the RC nations fans will be thinking along similar lines.

Not if they're only doing conditioning work!

Why would you think that they would only do conditioning work?

That may have been the emphasis prior to this last game. But I would have thought that it has been clear from previous training camps that when fitness levels are met, rugby then takes president.

By the third game of the six nations our line out and scrum were looking very good.

I imagine by the next game vs Ireland we will see a strong set piece, good ball handling and a solid defence. Three things lacking this weekend.

That certainly seems to be the format the management run.

More games means less training time, more recovery time, more opportunity for injury and more tiredness going into the RWC.

Of course they're going to include rugby / skills training eventually; my complaint is that they (seemingly) thought it was unnecessary to include them ahead of a capped international, albeit a 'friendly' (if such a thing exists in rugby). I'd be even less happy if I'd paid for a ticket for last Saturday's game.

maestegmafia wrote:By the third game of the six nations our line out and scrum were looking very good.

Is that acceptable? Why weren't they up to speed from the beginning?

Gatland's been in post long enough; why are we still slow starters?

I would prefer that so called fringe players be given some test time in the year before. For Wales Hallam has been a shout for a while, maybe Tyler Morgan too and Anscombe. These sorts of games seem too late and frantic.
The French sod about with their sides all the time during the 6N and other test games and Lievremont in 2011 and now St Andre have taken stick for it...any bets France turn up at the WC? At least they've had a look at a good number and can perhaps already select from a smaller pool.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Of course they're going to include rugby / skills training eventually; my complaint is that they (seemingly) thought it was unnecessary to include them ahead of a capped international, albeit a 'friendly' (if such a thing exists in rugby). I'd be even less happy if I'd paid for a ticket for last Saturday's game.

maestegmafia wrote:By the third game of the six nations our line out and scrum were looking very good.

Is that acceptable? Why weren't they up to speed from the beginning?

Gatland's been in post long enough; why are we still slow starters?

It is only acceptable in my opinion if the results are there at the right times. In the six nations Wales only looked lacklustre in forty minutes vs England. We looked very well prepared otherwise. There are rumours of that being a tactical call. Who knows for sure...?

At the last World Cup Wales looked well prepared until the last game when we had lost two of our best performers of the tournament in Priestland and Warburton which may account for our inability to come better than fourth. But from what I recall many outside of Wales didn't see us as having the ability to qualify from our group let alone to make it to the semis, and so nearly the final.

We blooded good young players very late that time too. Faletau was on only a handful of games as was Priestland.

I don't have a problem with Gatlands approach myself, though I am disappointed in Saturday's result.

Very intrigued to see what the conclusions the coaches and analysts will have made from the group by the time they announce who is to be culled this week.

I do think that these warm up games cause as much a headache for the coaches to be honest. Every coach want's to put his best team out every time they play. But what with players loosing form getting injured. it cannot be easy.

The players selected have trained hard to get in the team selection in the first place. But going out and playing in a warm up game and getting injured. makes you wonder if it was worth all that effort.

I do think that there are too many warm up game's to be honest.

Why do they need to have 3/4 warm up games? why do they not have the just 2 warm up game, the last 2 weeks before the tournament starts and then get on with the tournament.

Scotland have a real dilemma in these games. We have combinations to try out, we have players just back from injury who need game time but we simply cannot afford injuries to quite a few key players as their backups are nothing like as good. Makes for quite a problem.

maestegmafia wrote:
This weekend saw Wales and Ireland try a good number of players on the select oral fringes.

Interesting turn of phrase.

What happens in Edinburgh stays in Edinburgh.

TJ wrote:Scotland have a real dilemma in these games.  We have combinations to try out, we have players just back from injury who need game time but we simply cannot afford injuries to quite a few key players as their backups are nothing like as good.  Makes for quite a problem.

Don't think you can try and avoid injuries. All teams need some game competitive game time before the tournament. We know it it will always take a sad toll.

TJ wrote:Scotland have a real dilemma in these games.  We have combinations to try out, we have players just back from injury who need game time but we simply cannot afford injuries to quite a few key players as their backups are nothing like as good.  Makes for quite a problem.

I presume Vern Cotter will select a pretty decent Scotland team for this weekends encounter...?

maestegmafia wrote:

TJ wrote:Scotland have a real dilemma in these games.  We have combinations to try out, we have players just back from injury who need game time but we simply cannot afford injuries to quite a few key players as their backups are nothing like as good.  Makes for quite a problem.

I presume Vern Cotter will select a pretty decent Scotland team for this weekends encounter...?

We really cannot guess what he will do! I guess Ireland will be more or less the first team at least to start.

TJ wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

TJ wrote:Scotland have a real dilemma in these games.  We have combinations to try out, we have players just back from injury who need game time but we simply cannot afford injuries to quite a few key players as their backups are nothing like as good.  Makes for quite a problem.

I presume Vern Cotter will select a pretty decent Scotland team for this weekends encounter...?

We really cannot guess what he will do!  I guess Ireland will be more or less the first team at least to start.

I imagine so... To be honest their second team a pretty handy too...

Scotland could be really interesting. There are some good players in the squad and the coach knows his oats. With SA taking a dip in form they could do well in the pool.

I'd say we'll see a few more 1st teamers without it being all 1st choice.A stronger side than last week for sure but I don't think Sexton or Murray will start,I'd say Heaslip might get a rest after playing 80 mins last week and McGrath or Ross will probably rotate too.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:I'd say we'll see a few more 1st teamers without it being all 1st choice.A stronger side than last week for sure but I don't think Sexton or Murray will start,I'd say Heaslip might get a rest after playing 80 mins last week and McGrath or Ross will probably rotate too.

Kilcoyne and Bent to start with Best or Straus?

Who would take the eight shirt if Heaslip was rested?