Pre World Cup Warm Up games.

First topic message reminder :

Each nation is taking a different route in preparation for the RWC. The intensity of the games, the types of teams selected.

This weekend saw Wales and Ireland try a good number of players on the select oral fringes. Next week Lancaster aims to pick a strong team vs France, though there will inevitably be a relaxation on selecting some fringe players.

It is most interesting to see how the different nations vying for what could be one of the most closely contested RWCs yet. Altitude training, hot weather training, playing games, not playing games. Do you pick a 1st choice XV or do you hide your best for the big games...?

Much interesting deliberation on the strategies. Very few of the headcoaches in charge of nations incontention have experienced this tournament with their current teams. Will their calls be right or wrong....?

How confident are you I the method or madness of your teams pre RWC strategy...?


Still to play before the RWC..


SAT - 15TH AUG 15
07:35 International New Zealand - Australia
16:00 International Ireland - Scotland
19:00 International England - France
19:40 International Argentina - South Africa

SAT - 22ND AUG 15
09:00 International Japan - Uruguay
18:00 International Italy - Scotland
18:00 International France - England
20:00 International Canada - USA

SAT - 29TH AUG 15
09:00 International Japan - Uruguay
13:30 International Ireland - Wales
14:15 International Scotland - Italy

WED - 02ND SEP 15
18:30 International Canada - Georgia

SAT - 05TH SEP 15
23:00 International Romania - Tonga
13:30 International England - Ireland
15:30 International Japan - Georgia
16:00 International Wales - Italy
19:00 International USA - Australia
19:00 International France - Scotland

SUN - 06TH SEP 15
13:30 International Fiji - Canada


Ireland and Scotland will play one more game than England France Italy and Wales in the warm up matches.

The RC teams have played three games in four weeks and now have just one game left. Both ABs and the Boks will be looking for revenge for last weekends losses.

bedfordwelsh that's fair, but you say he's a better scrummager than Jenkins. I have never seen evidence of that. Jenkins is one of the best LH props I've ever seen play the game. I wouldn't have him as TH cover either as he can't really play there, not unless it was for against Romania or Fiji; but Lee and Francis will both need to be involved in those games so we can get them up to speed. As for Gill yes he did come on and make a positive impact against Italy. It was a tactical decision to help the ref nail Castro's cheating (and it worked). I felt sorry for Rob Evans. Hopefully Evans will be involved in a couple weeks when we take Italy to the cleaners again.

beshocked, doesn't sound as if he had the greatest season, though those examples are few and far between. Unfortunately it's not up to me to bring him over to my team, but hopefully the rugby coaches take note in the coming season. I take it you don't actually know how much time he has left on his contract?

No I don't know how long Gill has left. Though I think it might be one season.

I am just saying that personally I don't rate Gill highly.

mikey_dragon wrote:bedfordwelsh that's fair, but you say he's a better scrummager than Jenkins. I have never seen evidence of that. Jenkins is one of the best LH props I've ever seen play the game. I wouldn't have him as TH cover either as he can't really play there, not unless it was for against Romania or Fiji; but Lee and Francis will both need to be involved in those games so we can get them up to speed. As for Gill yes he did come on and make a positive impact against Italy. It was a tactical decision to help the ref nail Castro's cheating (and it worked). I felt sorry for Rob Evans. Hopefully Evans will be involved in a couple weeks when we take Italy to the cleaners again.

mikey. Jenkins (and indeed Adam Jones) were among the best scrummagers in the world, but the change to the engagement laws has not been kind to either of them. The reduction in the hit has made it much harder to win penalties on engagement and I think that has blunted their effectiveness considerably. For me the best illustration was the difference between the scrum outcomes in Cardiff in 2013 (a decisive win in the scrum for Wales, albeit assisted by a ref who wouldn't know a legal bind if it grabbed him by the goolies) and Twickenham in 2014 (Jenkins was carded on 50 minutes for repeatedly not pushing straight).

Poorfour yes you're correct. But Jenkins can clearly still cut the mustard at the top level, which was clear in the 6 Nations when we played against big units like France - we completely nullified them up front and that's how we beat them (again). In the game at Twickenham in 2014 I felt Jenkins and some others in the Wales team were pretty hard-done by, but the outcome was fair. As I've alluded to Jenkins has kicked on since then; Adam Jones has retired from international duty. Perhaps you should also note that since 2014 Jenkins (not Jones) was part of a front row that dominated SA in the scrum as well.

Another view on Gethin

http://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/features/columnists/jeff-probyn/15296/jeff-probyn-is-it-coincidence-that-scrums-become-messy-with-gethin-jenkins/

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Another view on Gethin

http://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/features/columnists/jeff-probyn/15296/jeff-probyn-is-it-coincidence-that-scrums-become-messy-with-gethin-jenkins/

Smacks of sour grapes vintage 2013 to me.

Irish view

http://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/analysis-wayne-barnes-will-need-to-watch-welsh-scrum-weak-link-gethin-jenkins/16785

The thing that made Jenkins stand out from the rest and turn him into one of the best props in the world when in his prime was his all round game and his unbelievable work rate which at the time very few props could match.

Yes he could always hold his own in the scrum but he was never a destructive scrummager as such.

As for him playing t/head both him and James have played there at top level for Wales but I wouldn't select them there but in emergencies in a match day squad etc then they are options available.

bedfordwelsh wrote:The thing that made Jenkins stand out from the rest and turn him into one of the best props in the world when in his prime was his all round game and his unbelievable work rate which at the time very few props could match.

Yes he could always hold his own in the scrum but he was never a destructive scrummager as such.

As for him playing t/head both him and James have played there at top level for Wales but I wouldn't select them there but in emergencies in a match day squad etc then they are options available.

i

I agree Bedford, however, the key wording is 'in his prime'. He can still do a job in the loose but inevitably his strength isn't what it was & the first thing that goes is your scrummaging. Add to that his injury record & you are always playing catch up.

I am guessing he will be managed through the group stages and won't start until the England game with Evans and James sharing the bulk of the Uruguay and Fiji games.

bedfordwelsh wrote:I am guessing he will be managed through the group stages and won't start until the England game with Evans and James sharing the bulk of the Uruguay and Fiji games.

He'll need a start before England surely.

Gats need to find out what his first choice front row performs like.

munkian wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Another view on Gethin

http://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/features/columnists/jeff-probyn/15296/jeff-probyn-is-it-coincidence-that-scrums-become-messy-with-gethin-jenkins/

Smacks of sour grapes vintage 2013 to me.

It sure does, doesn't it? We spanked them that year (and did the same to Mas and France the following year). I only have issues with two international referees in world rugby. Joubert, as he's clueless; and Poite who is a pretty good ref but he always seems overly keen to penalise Wales for some reason. I had the feeling he was picking on Jenkins too in 2014. The article states that McBryde brought it up with the IRB, which is fine, but then he criticises him. When the Lancaster mob did it in 2013 (over Steve Walsh) it was perfectly fine? Double standards much.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:The thing that made Jenkins stand out from the rest and turn him into one of the best props in the world when in his prime was his all round game and his unbelievable work rate which at the time very few props could match.

Yes he could always hold his own in the scrum but he was never a destructive scrummager as such.

As for him playing t/head both him and James have played there at top level for Wales but I wouldn't select them there but in emergencies in a match day squad etc then they are options available.

i

I agree Bedford, however, the key wording is 'in his prime'. He can still do a job in the loose but inevitably his strength isn't what it was & the first thing that goes is your scrummaging. Add to that his injury record & you are always playing catch up.

If you read upwards a bit (my reply to Poorfour) then this is pretty much what I said and what I have been recently discussing on this forum. You shouldn't talk about it with Bedfordwelsh... The guy actually rates Paul James... .

mikey_dragon wrote:

munkian wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Another view on Gethin

http://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/features/columnists/jeff-probyn/15296/jeff-probyn-is-it-coincidence-that-scrums-become-messy-with-gethin-jenkins/

Smacks of sour grapes vintage 2013 to me.

It sure does, doesn't it? We spanked them that year (and did the same to Mas and France the following year). I only have issues with two international referees in world rugby. Joubert, as he's clueless; and Poite who is a pretty good ref but he always seems overly keen to penalise Wales for some reason. I had the feeling he was picking on Jenkins too in 2014. The article states that McBryde brought it up with the IRB, which is fine, but then he criticises him. When the Lancaster mob did it in 2013 (over Steve Walsh) it was perfectly fine? Double standards much.

Y'see my interpretation is that Poite actually knows what he's looking for in the scrum, and Jones and Jenkins suffered because they were still trying to milk the scrum (illegally) for penalties and he saw through what they were doing. If you can be bothered to check back I said that was what would happen once he was announced as the ref for the 2014 game - so if nothing else he is consistent enough that an observant fan can predict what will happen.

Walsh in 2013 not only failed to spot Adam Jones's blatantly illegal bind, but wouldn't even let Robshaw draw his attention to it.

You can argue that Poite was in the wrong, but it's undeniable that Walsh was.

As for Joubert, I think he's a good ref, but I hope England don't get him at any point, because his interpretation of the breakdown doesn't suit our style of play and we don't seem to be able to adapt. But it seems that every team has at least one ref who doesn't suit them, Poite for Wales, Barnes for Ireland, Joubert for England... actually, it doesn't seem to make much difference for the All Blacks.

Poorfour, that's cool. Everybody has particular issues with different refs. I know how you guys love Walsh and Kaplan - whom are actually very good (or were).

You're spot on about Joubert. NH teams consistently suffer with his breakdown interpretation. The way I've always seen it is that he allows SH teams to go off their feet and come in from the side, whilst not allowing the NH sides to do so. No team is whiter than white at the breakdown (or scrum) - but it's these interpretations from the officials I highlighted that I take issue with.
It seems to me that French refs just don't suit Wales or Welsh teams full stop.

Gwlad wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:I am guessing he will be managed through the group stages and won't start until the England game with Evans and James sharing the bulk of the Uruguay and Fiji games.

He'll need a start before England surely.

Gats need to find out what his first choice front row performs like.

Maybe against Italy give him 40-50 minutes then get him off the pitch and we won't see him start again until the England game.

The Italians seem to have selected a full strength side to play Scotland.

Guglielmo Palazzani at scrum half is an interesting selection. The 24 year old with eight caps is the only surprise, possibly a selectoral decision, to what looks like their best Xv