The Jeff - Round 3

First topic message reminder :

As LT is away I'll post the latest version, but I won't provide anywhere near the level of detail that he does, but at least it gives us the option to discuss the games.

Saturday 31st
Sarries (1st) v Irish (12th) 1pm
Bath (8th) v Quins (6th) 1.30pm
Glaws (5th) v Wuss (10th) 2pm

Sunday 1st November
Falcons (11th) v Chiefs (3rd) 1pm BT
Sale (9th) v Saints (4th) 2.30pm
Tigers (2nd) v Wasps (7th) 3.15pm BT

Red for me.

Gopperth clearly only had eyes for Tait. The slow motion made it look worse but that could easily have been red and I really wouldn't be surprised if he is cited.

Live I thought, even on big screen, I thought the contact from elbow to jaw was accidental. However he left his feet and jumped into a player which is reckless so can see why he was binned.

Just for me, red would have been harsh.

I was really disappointed with Wasps. I had expected so much more. Daly really butchered any number of chances.

Pleased with a win, but still feel we are a mid table team. Trip to Exeter will be informative. Get something from that and I may start to believe.

i've already written this season off so im not expecting lots.

nathan wrote:What were peoples thoughts on the Gopperth incident? Yellow correct?, should of been red?

I thought red to be honest.

He elbowed Tait in the face and I think it's only that Tait stayed standing and didn't need medical attention that made it a yellow.

yappysnap wrote:

nathan wrote:What were peoples thoughts on the Gopperth incident? Yellow correct?, should of been red?

I thought red to be honest.

He elbowed Tait in the face and I think it's only that Tait stayed standing and didn't need medical attention that made it a yellow.

Tait did hit the floor i think.

For me it was a certain yellow, most likely red. Made me laugh seeing him try to convince players on the bench that he didn't mean to do it

Seeing it again makes me laugh how he cupped his hands when he landed to try and make it seem he went for the ball

http://vid01.bt.co.uk/v1/bc/pd/2503979514001/201511/2213/2503979514001_4590271698001_4590268034001.mp4

That's a red for me. No question whatsoever.

Red

Red. No doubt. Looking straight at the player not the ball, moves his arm in a way to strike, then the pitiful cupping of the arm to make out like he was going for the ball. A completely bizarre and pointless strike to the head.

I will have to look at it again. As I said I thought from live and big screen (at opposit end of the ground as I was finally in new stand) contacvt was largely accidental.

LondonTiger wrote:I will have to look at it again. As I said I thought from live and big screen (at opposit end of the ground as I was finally in new stand) contacvt was largely accidental.

posted a link to the video above

nathan wrote:Seeing it again makes me laugh how he cupped his hands when he landed to try and make it seem he went for the ball

http://vid01.bt.co.uk/v1/bc/pd/2503979514001/201511/2213/2503979514001_4590271698001_4590268034001.mp4

OK just watched that. And yes have changed my mind.

It was the height of stupidity from Gopperth and a completely pointless cheap shot that cost Wasps the game.

LT, I have serious reservations to. Particularly with our usual set piece dominance missing. Having said that if Kitchener and Slater can return soon with Ayerza the that's a pack transformation right there. Kitchener is a one man line out and Slater will flourish in this new environment.

Kitto looks a handy player and I hope O'Connor can do the one thing McCaffery seemingly can't, catch the bloody ball. He was so good today but how many knock ons when breaking through the tackle.

Tigers look unusually vulnerable but have taken their chances well. Given they normally start the season slowly and time their run to the playoffs with precision, maybe the rest of us should be worried that they are winning without playing well.

Some harsh comments on mallinder from some, I think he has largely done a very good job there. When the saints first hit the top they had put together a very good 23 but a lack of depth probably cost them another title. For me, on average sarries have had the best squad over the past 5 years and tigers too until last season... I expect tigers to be back up there this season. With the improvements from bath and exeter (quins will be a top 4 threat this year too) its only going to get harder for saints to win titles going forward.

Realistically, Bath, Sarries, Tigers, Saints, Wasps, Exeter and Quins all have the squads to be playoff contenders, though on the evidence of the first couple of games, Wasps are going to need to find a bit more nous; taking losing bonus points away at Quins and Tigers is an ok result but they didn't really look like winning in either game.

Quins in turn may come to rue throwing away the game at Welford Road - but I think they look quite dangerous this year without having really hit their stride yet. Last year we were bedevilled by injury and had a load of senior players who spent most of the year on the treatment table. This year, a chunk of that generation have retired, the remainder all look fit and the replacements we've brought in are already making an impact.

Glaws and Sale are in with a shout too, but historically have been just short of what it takes over the course of a season.

Irish look to be in transition, Worcester will be concentrating on consolidating their position this season. Falcons already look to be in trouble - if the BT pundits are right they had 9 players at the RWC and 20 injured in preseason, so it's hardly surprising they've struggled, but the size of the required turnaround is pretty chunky.

Poorfour wrote:Realistically, Bath, Sarries, Tigers, Saints, Wasps, Exeter and Quins all have the squads to be playoff contenders, though on the evidence of the first couple of games, Wasps are going to need to find a bit more nous; taking losing bonus points away at Quins and Tigers is an ok result but they didn't really look like winning in either game.

Unless my maths is faulty, Wasps only have one LBP so far.

LondonTiger wrote:

nathan wrote:Seeing it again makes me laugh how he cupped his hands when he landed to try and make it seem he went for the ball

http://vid01.bt.co.uk/v1/bc/pd/2503979514001/201511/2213/2503979514001_4590271698001_4590268034001.mp4

OK just watched that. And yes have changed my mind.

That's just moronic stuff. Leaving aside for the moment the fact that ball is probably falling out of play (that's where Tait is standing), at absolutely no point is he ever actually looking at the ball, which would make that a red for me. Complete brainfade from Gopperth and I would expect him to be cited.

Poorfour makes a valid point about Falcons' absentees. 3 games is a little early to take a view on how the season will pan out, but I'd be interested to see how many teams are missing first team players? For Glaws we've been missing Wood, Galarza, Thrush, Laidlaw, Trinder and Marshall so far, all of whom should start plus a few squad members. Therefore, we shall definitely strengthen in the coming months. Tigers have clearly been missing a few key players, but who else has been effected?

LI have been missing a few too ...

Awful cheap shot from Gopperth, he knew exactly what he was doing. Hope he has a good couple of months off at least, no place for deliberate strikes to the head like that.

HongKongCherry wrote:Poorfour makes a valid point about Falcons' absentees. 3 games is a little early to take a view on how the season will pan out, but I'd be interested to see how many teams are missing first team players? For Glaws we've been missing Wood, Galarza, Thrush, Laidlaw, Trinder and Marshall so far, all of whom should start plus a few squad members. Therefore, we shall definitely strengthen in the coming months.  Tigers have clearly been missing a few key players, but who else has been effected?

I don't think we're missing too many starters currently which is worrying.

From our first choice XV I'd say: Thompson, Wilson, Socino & Sinoti are the only real absentees. We're running short at centre and wing (Tuilagi x 2, Kibrige, Watson, Harris) but these are bordering XV players rather than definite starters.

The pack looks unfit and un-mobile. The defence is not present and Delany isn't clicking with the backline. At this stage I can't see us staying up, we look that bad.

nathan wrote:Seeing it again makes me laugh how he cupped his hands when he landed to try and make it seem he went for the ball

http://vid01.bt.co.uk/v1/bc/pd/2503979514001/201511/2213/2503979514001_4590271698001_4590268034001.mp4

Definite red for me, thought that he was gone as soon as they went to the slow motion replays

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

HongKongCherry wrote:Poorfour makes a valid point about Falcons' absentees. 3 games is a little early to take a view on how the season will pan out, but I'd be interested to see how many teams are missing first team players? For Glaws we've been missing Wood, Galarza, Thrush, Laidlaw, Trinder and Marshall so far, all of whom should start plus a few squad members. Therefore, we shall definitely strengthen in the coming months.  Tigers have clearly been missing a few key players, but who else has been effected?

I don't think we're missing too many starters currently which is worrying.

From our first choice XV I'd say: Thompson, Wilson, Socino & Sinoti are the only real absentees. We're running short at centre and wing (Tuilagi x 2, Kibrige, Watson, Harris) but these are bordering XV players rather than definite starters.

The pack looks unfit and un-mobile. The defence is not present and Delany isn't clicking with the backline. At this stage I can't see us staying up, we look that bad.

Maybe still a bit early though Sgt? A few seasons back LI had shipped over 120 points at this point but ended up 9th ...

I don't know Heaf, we look so bad. Wells is head coach, forwards coach and defence coach and all are failing. We looked pretty good last year bar losing so many games, we actually pushed teams close.

LondonTiger wrote:

Poorfour wrote:Realistically, Bath, Sarries, Tigers, Saints, Wasps, Exeter and Quins all have the squads to be playoff contenders, though on the evidence of the first couple of games, Wasps are going to need to find a bit more nous; taking losing bonus points away at Quins and Tigers is an ok result but they didn't really look like winning in either game.

Unless my maths is faulty, Wasps only have one LBP so far.

Sorry, you're right - I thought they'd nicked the bonus point at the end against Tigers, but they didn't.

In terms of injuries, I think Quins only have one major one at the moment - Netani Talei (who played really well in the RWC) picked up a bad knee injury in a friendly against the Dragons. Fortunately for us, we have more than adequate cover at 8 in Easter, Clifford and Luamanu. We have a couple of guys recently back from injury (Matthews being the main one), and Will Collier still coming back from last season's injury. But other than that, we've got a squad that's fitter than it's been for quite a while.

Most importantly, Harry Sloan and George Lowe are both fit and seem to be playing themselves into an effective centre pairing, at least defensively. Now we have Care back, we should see the offensive plays start to take shape.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I don't know Heaf, we look so bad. Wells is head coach, forwards coach and defence coach and all are failing. We looked pretty good last year bar losing so many games, we actually pushed teams close.

What do you think has changed this year to make you look bad - slow start, poor pre-season? Have you lost any key players or just missing the ones out at the RWC badly?

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I don't know Heaf, we look so bad. Wells is head coach, forwards coach and defence coach and all are failing. We looked pretty good last year bar losing so many games, we actually pushed teams close.

Totally agree. Wells is holding 3 posts! Not good enough.

The defence is utterly appalling. Regardless of players being away / injured you should have basis of a defensive pattern. Its shocking.

The breakdown is horrific and the pack itself look weak. We lost pretty much every collision except for those Latu was involved in.

Its still early...but by god we're bad and need MASSIVE improvements if we are to stay up.

Also how come we have 20 players injured? What the hell are they doing to the players????

Heaf wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I don't know Heaf, we look so bad. Wells is head coach, forwards coach and defence coach and all are failing. We looked pretty good last year bar losing so many games, we actually pushed teams close.

What do you think has changed this year to make you look bad - slow start, poor pre-season?  Have you lost any key players or just missing the ones out at the RWC badly?

Wells as head/defence coach is all I can figure out.

Does sound a lot for one coach - did you lose some coaching staff?

Last time Leicester started with 3 wins in a row was all the way back in 2008/09 season

Also last time Mauger was here.

Welly wrote: Last time Leicester started with 3 wins in a row was all the way back in 2008/09 season

Also last time Mauger was here.

How did that season go?

Wasn't that the year they lost to Leinster in the HEC final, won the Anglo-Welsh and the league?

yappysnap wrote:

Welly wrote: Last time Leicester started with 3 wins in a row was all the way back in 2008/09 season

Also last time Mauger was here.

How did that season go?

AP Winners

and HC finalist

With Vesty @ 10 and Staunton covering 15 at times and Erinle covering 13.

And Croft in the 2nd row and Hipkiss at 12?

Yea with the Cardiff Blues penalty shoot out too?

yappysnap wrote:Yea with the Cardiff Blues penalty shoot out too?

Oh god that was a nervy game.

Also Murphy getting a 60M drop goal V Glous.

HammerofThunor wrote:And Croft in the 2nd row and Hipkiss at 12?

Nigel Owens allowing Leo Cullen to constantly pull opposition's arm in the lineout.

Hipkiss and Erinle actually outplaying their more illustrious opponents.

My last trip to Edinburgh.

Poorfour wrote:Tigers look unusually vulnerable but have taken their chances well. Given they normally start the season slowly and time their run to the playoffs with precision, maybe the rest of us should be worried that they are winning without playing well.

We had Cole and three props under the age of 24 vs Wasps including a 23 year old tight head playing loose. First choice 4, 5 and 7 were all unavailable and we were still the physically dominant team. We even managed to play rugby that allowed our score to increment in something other than threes without our prolific Mr P Try. Slightly vulnerable certainly but so much better than last season! Our attack even looks like someone's thought about it.

LondonTiger wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:And Croft in the 2nd row and Hipkiss at 12?

Nigel Owens allowing Leo Cullen to constantly pull opposition's arm in the lineout.

Hipkiss and Erinle actually outplaying their more illustrious opponents.

My last trip to Edinburgh.

Hipkiss and Irinle, two blasts from the past there. Scary to think they both got international caps too

Hipkiss was a good centre who was a nigh in impossible to tackle one on one due to his low centre of gravity. His inability to pass the ball hampered his international aspirations. Erinle was selected amidst an injury crisis. Decent athlete but average rugby player. Vesty also got his solitary cap on the back of this season. Flood and Vesty at 10 and 12 using the Mauger/Murphy attacking game plan was excellent.

All I really remember of Vesty was him butchering that try for bath that could have got them in the play offs...

https://youtu.be/tmaZj2q4_To

Awkward!

As a Leicester fan that just makes him more of a local hero.

Gopperth hearing tomorrow ...

yappysnap wrote:All I really remember of Vesty was him butchering that try for bath that could have got them in the play offs...

https://youtu.be/tmaZj2q4_To

Awkward!

 That really never gets old.

You don't get that kind of hilarity in the Rabo do you GC?

Arguably that non-try also allowed Wasps to stay up, as they ended up getting a LBP that game and were only 1 point above the relegated Newcastle.

Just seen the result for Saints, didn't realise they'd lost on the weekend.

Are Sale better then expected or are Saints worse?