Champions Cup Pool 3: Northampton Saints v Scarlets, 14 November

First topic message reminder :

                 
Northampton Saints v Scarlets
Saturday 14 November 2015
KO 19:45
Franklin's Gardens, Northampton

Live on BT Sport / beIN Sports

Referee Romain Poite (France)
Touch Judge 1 Tual Trainini (France)
Touch Judge 2 Pierre Brousset (France)
Fourth Official Jonathan Healy (England)
TMO Eric Gonthier (France)
Citing Commissioner Murray Whyte (Ireland)

A. Head to Head

7 Played 7
4 Wins 3
3 Losses 4
0 Draws 0
148 Points 128

B. Recent Form

7 November 2014
Scarlets 7 - 24 Northampton Saints

14 January 2012
Scarlets 17 - 29 Northampton Saints  

18 November 2011
Northampton Saints 23 - 28 Scarlets

C. Teams

Northampton Saints

[tbc]

Scarlets

[tbc]

I thought the Scarlets decision to go for the posts with 5 min to go was idiotic given the lack of opportunities and the weather conditions.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Any opinions on how JJ Hanrahan performed?

He was OK. Made their try with a break but only got 2/5 kick. Though the misses were far out and near the sideline.

Not a saints fan, just as an observation about the call. Were saints that bad and niggily?

As an aside, Scarlets fans were the worst at the Gardens for a long time. Shouting and making noises over the silence for the kicker, antagonising our fans after scoring. Were like a football crowd.

Knackeredknees wrote:Not a saints fan, just as an observation about the call. Were saints that bad and niggily?

Yes, to a point when Poite told his assistant ref on the microphone: "il me casse les couilles a sans arret l'ouvrir" "he is breaking my balls by opening his mouth all the time".

Presumably speaking of Saints 9.

That's what happens if you put a 9 at captain I guess. As if they aren't enough of a pain in the arse already.

VinceWLB wrote:

Knackeredknees wrote:Not a saints fan, just as an observation about the call. Were saints that bad and niggily?

Yes, to a point when Poite told his assistant ref on the microphone: "il me casse les couilles a sans arret l'ouvrir"  "he is breaking my balls by opening his mouth all the time".

Presumably speaking of Saints 9.

Did he really say that over the mic? I thought referees learned to watch what they say when people on tv can hear and record it.
When did he say that, would be fun to hear?

And, yeah, make a scrum half a captain and non-stop chatter is the result.

Knackeredknees wrote:North's yellow? was it justified or a penalty more a suitable punishment? only seen a small highlights clip and it wasn't mentioned

The real problem with this is that the cheating Scarlets player took a man out of the attacking play by holding on, and gets a disallowed try and yellow card as a reward. The reaction seems to be that each tackler can just hold on to a man and he's out of that phase of play. It wasn't a stamp in reality, he was getting his foot free. If that was a stamp there are 20 a game in rucks. Yellow for North but nothing for cynical play in the 22.

doctor_grey wrote:

VinceWLB wrote:

Knackeredknees wrote:Not a saints fan, just as an observation about the call. Were saints that bad and niggily?

Yes, to a point when Poite told his assistant ref on the microphone: "il me casse les couilles a sans arret l'ouvrir"  "he is breaking my balls by opening his mouth all the time".

Presumably speaking of Saints 9.

Did he really say that over the mic?  I thought referees learned to watch what they say when people on tv can hear and record it.  
When did he say that, would be fun to hear?

And, yeah, make a scrum half a captain and non-stop chatter is the result.  

Around 70 min mark. That was right after a Saints kick was touched by a Scarlets player, which resulted in a Saints lineout just outside their 22.

Mate, an action like North's will get run every time.  Yes, he was still being held after North released the pass, and that appeared to me deliberate (but if I was the tackler I would likely have done the same).  I do think North was trying to free himself, but appeared to me he tried to use his un-held foot to push off or free himself.  He was clearly frustrated by the look on his face.  Regardless of the situation when viewed on the big screen that will get run every time.  Shame, cost Saints a try.

Foden had a pretty slick game, don't you think?

I'm going to listen for Pointe's comments.

Na you're right, I understand it will be punished. Holding on after a tackle needs to be dealt with though because he could have been crucial in the attack.

Yeah Foden played well. Good to see, because he's made a few mistakes in recent games.

Foden will be fine. Takes a long ime to get past an injury like his. I think he will get his game legs under him more and more and will end up having a fine season.

Couldn't hear the comments by Poite, but that be the quality of the sound on my replay.

Hood83 wrote:

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:

Welshmushroom wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:Ouch. Will be a tough day for the Scarlets I think.

As a neutral I wouldn't say that.  After seeing this Northampton selection I actually make Scarlets slight favourites.  Looks like Scarlets have gone big in the forwards and the backs to set up a defensive wall.  I'm not doubting Northampton's ability and if its a dry day they have the skills to go out and win this game.  But in wet conditions Scarlets have picked big units in the backs and forwards.  Plus is Davies and Barclay they have some of the best stealers around at the moment so I imagine they will probably turn Saints over at the breakdown a fair bit as well.  Not sure what the injury list for Northampton was like but I really think this may be a bad selection by Mallinder given the likely heavy/raining conditions they will be facing.

Got that one a bit wrong Mushroom, murdered in the front row, even with Saints replacements and Saints got at least parity at the breakdown.

Watch out for Harrison and Hill, when they came on they made a big impression, especially at the breakdown.

Is Harrison going to make it do you think? Seemed to come with a huge reputation but never quite kicked on, and never seemed to put on the extra kgs I thought he'd need at the top. Must be 23 ish now, right? So now or never

He is a bit small at around 100kg, but if Saints want an out and out fetcher he is the man, lot of competition with Wood, Gibson, Clark all vying for two shirts. If he gets over the ball he is very hard to shift, got two turnovers in the 20 minutes or so he was on, a real mongrel on the deck.

In response to the comments about Dickson bleating to the ref, he did not manhandle the ref and question his decision unlike Scarlets, if Myler had been on at that time it would have probably closed the game out.

I was very impressed with the Saints front row, bearing in mind that all 5 that played have an average age of less than 23, two 25 year olds being the old men of the front row. They had the much bigger Scarlets in their pockets all night, plus they were mobile and strong both as carriers and tacklers. I think Waller is going to challenge Marler this year, both about the same weight but Waller does all the things that Marler used to do in the loose and is a real ground hog at the breakdown. Hill looked very comfortable as well when he came on, won a penalty at the first scrum.

In my opinion the jury is still out on Hanrahan, good touches, but poor kicking both from hand and ground. He doesn't have the consistency of Myler and some passes were very poor even allowing for the conditions.

The Scarlets players I was impressed with were Davies and Ball, just about anything dangerous or good came from one of those two

Scottrf wrote:

Knackeredknees wrote:North's yellow? was it justified or a penalty more a suitable punishment? only seen a small highlights clip and it wasn't mentioned

The real problem with this is that the cheating Scarlets player took a man out of the attacking play by holding on, and gets a disallowed try and yellow card as a reward. The reaction seems to be that each tackler can just hold on to a man and he's out of that phase of play. It wasn't a stamp in reality, he was getting his foot free. If that was a stamp there are 20 a game in rucks. Yellow for North but nothing for cynical play in the 22.

I know this will not be too much of a shared view amongst Scarlets supporters, but from what I saw of it, I would say that Tagi did deserve what he got.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

Knackeredknees wrote:North's yellow? was it justified or a penalty more a suitable punishment? only seen a small highlights clip and it wasn't mentioned

The real problem with this is that the cheating Scarlets player took a man out of the attacking play by holding on, and gets a disallowed try and yellow card as a reward. The reaction seems to be that each tackler can just hold on to a man and he's out of that phase of play. It wasn't a stamp in reality, he was getting his foot free. If that was a stamp there are 20 a game in rucks. Yellow for North but nothing for cynical play in the 22.

I know this will not be too much of a shared view amongst Scarlets supporters, but from what I saw of it, I would say that Tagi did deserve what he got.

Ultimately Tagi got a try cancelled and a player binned for 10 mins, as a Scarlet fan I'm certainly not complaining. Reaction always seem to bring a greater penalty than a foul whatever the position.

2ndTime, your right retaliation is always punished harder. I guess there are possible arguments of not being aware the ball had been passed etc to mitigate Tagi holding on as possibly unintentional, but if you are retaliating there is no argument of it being unintentional.

Scottrf wrote:As an aside, Scarlets fans were the worst at the Gardens for a long time. Shouting and making noises over the silence for the kicker, antagonising our fans after scoring. Were like a football crowd.

The Scarlets fans were praised in the press today for the atmosphere they created. Two sides to the story etc.

Hood83 wrote:

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:

Welshmushroom wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:Ouch. Will be a tough day for the Scarlets I think.

As a neutral I wouldn't say that.  After seeing this Northampton selection I actually make Scarlets slight favourites.  Looks like Scarlets have gone big in the forwards and the backs to set up a defensive wall.  I'm not doubting Northampton's ability and if its a dry day they have the skills to go out and win this game.  But in wet conditions Scarlets have picked big units in the backs and forwards.  Plus is Davies and Barclay they have some of the best stealers around at the moment so I imagine they will probably turn Saints over at the breakdown a fair bit as well.  Not sure what the injury list for Northampton was like but I really think this may be a bad selection by Mallinder given the likely heavy/raining conditions they will be facing.

Got that one a bit wrong Mushroom, murdered in the front row, even with Saints replacements and Saints got at least parity at the breakdown.

Watch out for Harrison and Hill, when they came on they made a big impression, especially at the breakdown.

Is Harrison going to make it do you think? Seemed to come with a huge reputation but never quite kicked on, and never seemed to put on the extra kgs I thought he'd need at the top. Must be 23 ish now, right? So now or never

What happened to Nutley? I thought he was meant to be a promising breakdown 7 a couple of seasons back.