Champions Cup Pool 5: RC Toulon v Bath, 15 November

by **George Carlin** Thu 05 Nov 2015, 5:34 am

Champions Cup Pool 5: RC Toulon v Bath, 15 November Bath_f10

RC Toulonnais v Bath Rugby
Sunday 15 November 2015
KO 16:15
Stade Félix Mayol, Toulon

Live on FR2 / BT Sport / beIN Sports

Referee Nigel Owens (Wales)
Touch Judge 1 Neil Hennessy (Wales)
Touch Judge 2 Gwyn Morris (Wales)
Fourth Official Jaouad Marboh (France)
TMO Derek Bevan (Wales)
Citing Commissioner Stefano Marrama (Italy)

A. Head to Head

#These teams are meeting for the first time.

B. Domestic Form

RC Toulonnais
7 November 2015
Toulon [*]-[*] Montpellier

1 November 2015
Grenoble 33-29 Toulon

24 October 2015
Toulon 61-3 Oyonnax

17 October 2015
Brive 29-26 Toulon

Bath Rugby
7 November 2015
London Irish [*]-[*] Bath Rugby

31 October 2015
Bath Rugby 28 - 38 Harlequins

24 October 2015
Wasps 16 - 9 Bath Rugby

17 October 2015
Bath Rugby 19 - 17 Exeter Chiefs

C. Teams

RC Toulonnais
Champions Cup Pool 5: RC Toulon v Bath, 15 November Eva-gr11

Champions Cup Pool 5: RC Toulon v Bath, 15 November Eva-gr11

[*][tbc]

Bath Rugby
Champions Cup Pool 5: RC Toulon v Bath, 15 November Indira10

[*][tbc]

by Welly Sun 08 Nov 2015, 8:22 pm

Bath are going to get humped.

Toulon could have there world cup players back, Vermeulen, Habana, Mitchell, Nonu,

there front row is the main weakness.

by yappysnap Sun 08 Nov 2015, 8:31 pm

Bath playing against the team they so want to be.

Let's hope they win or all that hard work by the accounts department will be in vain!

by thebandwagonsociety Mon 09 Nov 2015, 4:19 pm

This should be a cracker of a match. Toulon are one of the few french sides that take European competition seriously so should be putting out a top notch side. Bath have the quality to come away with a victory but can't see past Toulon win (no TBP most points from kicks) with a Bath LBP.

by Bathman_in_London Mon 09 Nov 2015, 4:44 pm

I think Toulon are going to absolutely smash Bath, 30+ points in it. Very very unlikely to see a repeat of last years heroics in Toulouse.

by **LondonTiger** Mon 09 Nov 2015, 4:48 pm

Did not see Bath v LI - but based on other mathes this season they will be a long way behind even a misfiring toulon side.

by **George Carlin** Wed 11 Nov 2015, 5:59 am

Official preview:

PREVIEW: Quade to bolster Toulon's bid for historic hat-trick

RC Toulon launch their bid to complete an historic hat-trick of European Rugby Champions Cup triumphs.

The winners of the past two finals open the defence of their title against Bath at Stade Felix Mayol.

Toulon may have lost the likes of Bakkies Botha, Ali Williams and Carl Hayman but have once again bolstered their ranks with a raft of world stars.

Flanker Juan Smith said: "Of course we want to win the tournament again. The team has received many reinforcements, even if all are not there yet. But the club is still always moving forward and always has big ambitions, whoever is playing."

Springbok No8 Duane Vermeulen has yet to arrive on the Cote d'Azur but Quade Cooper could make his Champions Cup debut.

Cooper made a winning start at his new French club with a key role in their comfortable 52-8 win over Montpellier last weekend.

The Australia star set up one of Lachie Turner's two tries with a mercurial 'no-look' grubber kick that has gone down a storm on social media.

Cooper said: "I'm very excited to be here and to start off with a win like that you can only dream of. Personally I've been in some big games, but that was very special.

"I took some time to sort the contract here but sometimes you have to wait for nice surprises.

"I'm really happy and excited to be here and very grateful to the club. Now I want to make great games for Toulon and represent the jersey and fans."

While Toulon have welcomed one of their star signings, Bath bid farewell to Sam Burgess at the end of a "difficult" week at the Recreation Ground.

The club were knocked back in their bid to sign British Lions No8 Taulupe Faletau, lost at home to Harlequins in the Aviva Premiership and then agreed to allow England's World Cup centre Burgess to return to rugby league.

However last season's Premiership finalists began life without Burgess with a comfortable six-try win over London Irish and are set to have South Africa flanker Francois Louw back to bolster the back-row.

Head coach Mike Ford said: "Francois is huge for us. He was outstanding in the World Cup at the very, very top level. He was up there with [Richie] McCaw and [David] Pocock."

Ford added: "We think we're getting Toulon at the right time. It's the champions away from home, they've had 19 internationals away who have to be integrated and, a bit like us, they haven't started the season too well."

by whocares Wed 11 Nov 2015, 1:06 pm

Aussie prop Maafu was found guilty of assault and received a 4 month suspended sentence. No doubt Toulon are looking for an extra prop as his career should be over.

by BamBam Fri 13 Nov 2015, 12:59 pm

The other cheats side

Watson, Roko, Devoto, Eastmond, Banahan, Ford, Cook
Auterac, Webber, Wilson, Day, Attwood, Garvey, Louw, Houston
Subs - Batty, Lahiff, Thomas, Hooper, Faosiliva, Matawalu, Priestland, Homer

by TightHEAD Fri 13 Nov 2015, 2:27 pm

Toulon's starting XV

15. Delon Armitage; 14. Josua Tuisova, 13. Mathieu Bastareaud, 12. Maxime Mermoz, 11. Bryan Habana; 10. Quade Cooper, 9. Jonathan Pelissie; 1. Xavier Chiocci, 2. Anthony Etrillard, 3. Levan Chilachava, 4. Samu Manoa, 5. Romain Taofifenua, 6. Juan Smith (c), 7. Juan Fernandez Lobbe, 8. Steffon Armitage

Replacements

16. Bastien Soury, 17. Florian Fresia, 18. Mohamed Boughanmi, 19. Duane Vermeulen, 20. Theo Belan, 21. Tom Taylor, 22. Sebastien Tillous-Borde, 23. Konstantine Mikautadze

by Scottrf Fri 13 Nov 2015, 3:18 pm

Manoa at 4? We'll have him back and play him at his proper position.

by **George Carlin** Fri 13 Nov 2015, 3:21 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Toulon's starting XV

15. Delon Armitage; 14. Josua Tuisova, 13. Mathieu Bastareaud, 12. Maxime Mermoz, 11. Bryan Habana; 10. Quade Cooper, 9. Jonathan Pelissie; 1. Xavier Chiocci, 2. Anthony Etrillard, 3. Levan Chilachava, 4. Samu Manoa, 5. Romain Taofifenua, 6. Juan Smith (c), 7. Juan Fernandez Lobbe, 8. Steffon Armitage

Replacements

16. Bastien Soury, 17. Florian Fresia, 18. Mohamed Boughanmi, 19. Duane Vermeulen, 20. Theo Belan, 21. Tom Taylor, 22. Sebastien Tillous-Borde, 23. Konstantine Mikautadze

Looks sh!te.

by BamBam Fri 13 Nov 2015, 3:24 pm

Hmm, so we've got Samu Manoa and Duane Vermuelen to choose from at number 8

I know, lets stick Steffon Armitage there, stick with a rather decrepit Juan Smith in the back row, throw Manoa in at lock out of position and bench Thor

by Bathman_in_London Fri 13 Nov 2015, 3:29 pm

George Carlin wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Toulon's starting XV

15. Delon Armitage; 14. Josua Tuisova, 13. Mathieu Bastareaud, 12. Maxime Mermoz, 11. Bryan Habana; 10. Quade Cooper, 9. Jonathan Pelissie; 1. Xavier Chiocci, 2. Anthony Etrillard, 3. Levan Chilachava, 4. Samu Manoa, 5. Romain Taofifenua, 6. Juan Smith (c), 7. Juan Fernandez Lobbe, 8. Steffon Armitage

Replacements

16. Bastien Soury, 17. Florian Fresia, 18. Mohamed Boughanmi, 19. Duane Vermeulen, 20. Theo Belan, 21. Tom Taylor, 22. Sebastien Tillous-Borde, 23. Konstantine Mikautadze
Looks sh!te.

Pretty weak all-round really. There are several Toulon players who have more international caps than the entire Bath team...

by Bathite Fri 13 Nov 2015, 4:32 pm

yappysnap wrote:Bath playing against the team they so want to be.

Let's hope they win or all that hard work by the accounts department will be in vain!

Fishing.

Don't think even our finance team is good enough to hide enough salary to compare to Toulons second team. Has any English side beaten Toulon away in the last 5 years?

by Bathite Fri 13 Nov 2015, 4:33 pm

We are going to get a humping

by TJ Mon 16 Nov 2015, 12:19 am

Bath chairman Bruce Craig says Toulon match will never be played

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/nov/15/bath-chairman-bruce-craig-toulon-european-champions-cup-paris-terror-attacks

by BamBam Mon 16 Nov 2015, 9:34 am

Says a lot about the state of European rugby that there isn't a free slot to play this game before April!

by Bathman_in_London Mon 16 Nov 2015, 9:37 am

He might well be right, I doubt there are many free weekends in the season, at least not until after the pool stages have finished.

by whocares Mon 16 Nov 2015, 10:57 am

Can't they play it during the 6N?

by **Rugby Fan** Mon 16 Nov 2015, 11:06 am

whocares wrote:Can't they play it during the 6N?

Hope all is good with you, whocares.

I think the Premiership is running over the 6N weekends.

by whocares Mon 16 Nov 2015, 11:24 am

Thanks RF. Didn't realise that! I think even the t14 has a couple of weeks off during the 6N

by **Notch** Mon 16 Nov 2015, 1:19 pm

I think if Toulon want it to be played and Bath don't, Bath forfeit the points plus maybe a fine.

I appreciate there is no free weekend and they do not wish to play three games in a week. But if you're breaking your salary cap and you still can't afford to have enough players to put out a midweek XV which is completely different to your starting XV you're doing it wrong.

by **Notch** Mon 16 Nov 2015, 1:28 pm

For Bath to come out complaining about this is in rather poor taste. The games were cancelled due to a horrible tragedy, not a frozen pitch or a bit of snow. You'd think the humble thing to do would be to work for a solution behind the scenes not brazenly suggest the teams should share the points or that the game not go ahead at all.

by 2ndtimeround Mon 16 Nov 2015, 1:49 pm

Notch wrote:For Bath to come out complaining about this is in rather poor taste. The games were cancelled due to a horrible tragedy, not a frozen pitch or a bit of snow. You'd think the humble thing to do would be to work for a solution behind the scenes not brazenly suggest the teams should share the points or that the game not go ahead at all.

by TJ Mon 16 Nov 2015, 3:09 pm

If it was a game Bath could be confident of winning do you think he would say the same?

by thebandwagonsociety Mon 16 Nov 2015, 3:20 pm

In his defense, he is quoted in the article saying that in light of current events rearranging a match isn't really that serious a matter.

by **Notch** Mon 16 Nov 2015, 3:29 pm

While it's true he does say that, he somewhat contradicts it by treating it as being serious enough for him to go to the press and use this very unfortunate consequence of truly tragic global events as a pretext to criticise several of his usual targets; the RFU etc. Unlike other teams affected, whose public comments have been purely about sending condolences to those affected while they work for a solution behind the scenes.

I don't want to come across as judgmental but I'm baffled both Craig and Ford could have possibly thought their comments were appropriate given the circumstances. It does seem like they are doing their negotiating over how this situation should be handled by the governing body through the media, which is a crass and bullying approach at the best of times- right now it feels completely egregious.

by Hazel Sapling Mon 16 Nov 2015, 4:35 pm

Should not have publicised their comments. Worst time in scheduling terms to occur (early on in a World Cup year). I am afraid no party is going to be satisfied of the 10 teams who got their match's delayed (or the Challenge Cup teams but seeing as the French don't give a hoot about that...)

A crazy solution (that I like) could be to require both to use their academy teams on a Saturday when Toulon are away (and Bath are playing as well). Give youth a chance. Assuming of course that they both bother with youth teams rather than buying talent.

by **George Carlin** Tue 17 Nov 2015, 6:16 am

https://www.606v2.com/t61283-champions-cup-pool-5-bath-v-leinster-21-november

by yappysnap Tue 17 Nov 2015, 6:35 am

Hazel Sapling wrote:Give youth a chance. Assuming of course that they both bother with youth teams rather than buying talent.

Course they do! You can buy other teams academy players too as well...

by TJ Tue 17 Nov 2015, 8:28 am

To the poster who was baffled as to why Craig said this - he appears to have serious psychopathic tendencies ( lots of psychopaths in similar situations in business) thus he does not understand empathy or others needs and is only interested in what he wants and how to get it. This is why he behaves like he does.

What he wants is for his team to win the european cup so he can bask in the glory, Toulon are the biggest obstacle in the way, if he can get his team a share of the points without playing the game then it increases his teams chances of getting out of the pool so its obviously the correct thing to do from his point of view

by Poorfour Tue 17 Nov 2015, 9:23 am

BamBam wrote:Says a lot about the state of European rugby that there isn't a free slot to play this game before April!

It says more about the consequences of the RWC being in England. The English season started 6 weeks later than usual because of the RWC, which has taken out a lot of the room for manoeuvre in the season. The Pro 12 are 3 weeks ahead of us in terms of games played, and the Top 14 4 (though they have a longer season to accommodate).

by TJ Tue 17 Nov 2015, 9:33 am

Its not to do with the RWC being played in England - its that the club season in England started later than the pro 12 and top 14 because they didn't want to play during the WC. It was a poor decision in hindsight I guess

by doctor_grey Tue 17 Nov 2015, 10:55 am

TJ wrote:Its not to do with the RWC being played in England - its that the club season in England started later than the pro 12 and top 14 because they didn't want to play during the WC. It was a poor decision in hindsight I guess

Agree, but with the current congested clanedar, not sure I like either option. I don't like so many matches played without the Internationals, as happens during the Six Nations. I prefer to see the best club squads going at it. But not sure the alternative to starting at the same time as the Pro 12.

A few matches seem to be postponed every season due to weather in winter. How can the clubs adjust if that happens again this season? Seems to me the Premiership took the wrong option.

Regarding Craig's comments, looking at everything he said (everything which I saw in print) and I am not sure the guy really meant. He was quoted as saying a Rugby match was not important compared to the attacks on Paris. But, at least to me, whenever he seems to say something reasonable he then adds comments which are ridiculous (being kind with my wording in this case). If someone asked him when/if the match will be rescheduled, it would have been OK to say he was not sure and there are bigger issues at the moment. A reasonable and appropriate response. Don't get him at all.

by **LondonTiger** Tue 17 Nov 2015, 11:17 am

TJ wrote:Its not to do with the RWC being played in England - its that the club season in England started later than the pro 12 and top 14 because they didn't want to play during the WC. It was a poor decision in hindsight I guess

Wrong, PRL wished to play. RFU were happy for them to play. World Rugby however stated that the Host Nation cannot play any top flight pro rugby during a WC. That they agreed to let us start the season after the Pool stages was a minor miracle.

by **Rugby Fan** Tue 17 Nov 2015, 12:02 pm

TJ wrote: - its that the club season in England started later than the pro 12 and top 14 because they didn't want to play during the WC. It was a poor decision in hindsight I guess

Was that not a condition imposed by World Rugby, who didn't want league games diverting interest away from the pool stages?

by TJ Tue 17 Nov 2015, 12:02 pm

Ah - I didn't realise that. apologies

by Poorfour Tue 17 Nov 2015, 12:17 pm

Yup. There was a whole debate on here about the awful PRL clubs demanding compensation because, erm, World Rugby (via the RFU) was effectively restricting their trade by stopping them from playing.

by TightHEAD Tue 17 Nov 2015, 2:37 pm

Surprised Craig hasn't demanded that Bath get all the points form this game and if Toulon beat Bath by 20pts or more at the Rec then they can have those points, if not then Bath have those too.

by propdavid_london Tue 17 Nov 2015, 2:50 pm

It does feel as if Craig is angling towards an away walkover! That would be a first for this level of rugby wouldnt it?

by Golden Tue 17 Nov 2015, 7:38 pm

Stade Francais Vs Munster this weekend has been postponed as well. Clermont also playing at home this weekend. Will be interesting to see if it goes ahead.

With so many matches to be rescheduled in such a congested schedule and with the ongoing security threats (see the German football match tonight) does anyone else think the tournament might be abandoned for the year?

by **Notch** Tue 17 Nov 2015, 8:55 pm

propdavid_london wrote:It does feel as if Craig is angling towards an away walkover! That would be a first for this level of rugby wouldnt it?

Would be beyond tasteless to penalise a French club for not being allowed to play one of their biggest games of the season due to a brutal terrorist attack. If it was anyone else, I wouldn't even believe that they could be contemplating pushing for that because it is just so slimy and... I mean, words fail me. They really do.

People pretend there is a code of ethics in rugby, a kind of fellowship on and off the field, and its hard to think of anything more contrary to that than griping and grumbling about scheduling issues just days after some men tried to get into a sports stadium in France and kill as many fans as possible. The 'Rugby Way' would be saying 'We will rearrange any game to suit the fans of the host team.' Because honestly- sports fans in France have had it hard enough over the last week without this nonsense.

by justified sinner Tue 17 Nov 2015, 9:06 pm

I'm not familiar with the AP schedule, but presumably the LV is still running this year . In which case can't they juggle between those and the T14 to come up with dates?

by yappysnap Tue 17 Nov 2015, 9:09 pm

Notch wrote:
propdavid_london wrote:It does feel as if Craig is angling towards an away walkover! That would be a first for this level of rugby wouldnt it?

Would be beyond tasteless to penalise a French club for not being allowed to play one of their biggest games of the season due to a brutal terrorist attack. If it was anyone else, I wouldn't even believe that they could be contemplating pushing for that because it is just so slimy and... I mean, words fail me. They really do.

People pretend there is a code of ethics in rugby, a kind of fellowship on and off the field, and its hard to think of anything more contrary to that than griping and grumbling about scheduling issues just days after some men tried to get into a sports stadium in France and kill as many fans as possible. The 'Rugby Way' would be saying 'We will rearrange any game to suit the fans of the host team.' Because honestly- sports fans in France have had it hard enough over the last week without this nonsense.

+1

It's depressing to see the worst in people brought out at this time

by yappysnap Tue 17 Nov 2015, 9:09 pm

justified sinner wrote:I'm not familiar with the AP schedule, but presumably the LV is still running this year . In which case can't they juggle between those and the T14 to come up with dates?

Nope there's no LV

by justified sinner Tue 17 Nov 2015, 9:11 pm

yappysnap wrote:
justified sinner wrote:I'm not familiar with the AP schedule, but presumably the LV is still running this year . In which case can't they juggle between those and the T14 to come up with dates?

Nope there's no LV

Thanks, I wasn't aware of that. Back to the drawing board.

by PenfroPete Wed 18 Nov 2015, 12:19 pm

http://www.epcrugby.com/news/31489.php#.Vkxr6nw75g0

"EPCR, the three leagues and the clubs are in agreement that all postponed fixtures - including the RC Toulon v Bath Rugby Round 1 match - will be played, and an announcement regarding the new dates will be made as soon as possible."

by thebandwagonsociety Wed 18 Nov 2015, 6:02 pm

The AP could shift around a couple of games for Bath. Then Toulon could have a EuroCup match and a Top14 match at home in a double header fixture. Toulon could send one ridiculously talented team out for the Top14 match and then send a completely separate but never the less ridiculously talented team out to play Bath straight afterwards. We could call it Boudjellal Day in honour of the super club he has built.

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